Re: Life is horribly, horribly unfair

[Rosspilot]

>> I am now so glad that I learned to fly and have my own humble little
>> airplane. It makes a difference. I think it really does.

Indeed it does. Your story reinforces my long-standing belief that life turns
on the thinnest of dimes, and that when your time comes, it won't matter if you
are crossing the street in front of your own house or flying your airplane IFR
to minimums.
www.Rosspilot.com

[Peter R.]

Neal ) wrote:

> A good friend of mine, who graduated at the top of his class from the
> Air Force Academy, proudly served his country flying F16s and training
> new jet pilots for many years, and who had been flying big iron for a
> major airline since he left the service, just lost his life in a
> senseless automobile crash in Salt Lake City.

You have my condolences on what will be a difficult mourning period for you
and the surviving family of your friend.

--
Peter

[Jay Honeck]

I cried, Gene. I'm so sorry.

Keep flying -- she's up there, somewhere.
--
Jay

Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Gene Seibel" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> Knew a lady. She was a friend for 8 years and a fiancee for 8 days.
> Left my house and 10 minutes later was dead. Lost control of her SUV
> in a sudden hail storm. It happens so suddenly. The times we flew are
> such precious memories.
> --
> A Special Angel - http://pad39a.com/sheila/
> Because I fly, I envy no one.
> Gene Seibel

[Peter R.]

Gene Seibel wrote:

> Knew a lady. She was a friend for 8 years and a fiancee for 8 days.
> Left my house and 10 minutes later was dead. Lost control of her SUV
> in a sudden hail storm. It happens so suddenly. The times we flew are
> such precious memories.
> --
> A Special Angel - http://pad39a.com/sheila/

A very moving tribute, Gene.

Sometimes one forgets that behind each of these names here is a person
with complex experiences, great loves, and painful losses.

--
Peter

[Jack Allison]

My condolences Neal. It sounds like we've all lost a great guy, even for
those of us who never knew your friend.

> Carpe diem folks.
>
> Unexpected bad sh*t can happen to you at anytime without warning and
> thru no fault of your own.
>
> How many times are you alive? Only once? That's right.
>
> I am now so glad that I learned to fly and have my own humble little
> airplane. It makes a difference. I think it really does.
>

Well said man. A chance to fly really does make a difference in life.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Honeck]

> Tuesday my father died of a heart attack. He was 82 years old and we had
> over the years known that some day he would not be with us. That still
> didn't stop the pain. I have yet to make it through a day without crying.

I know it's little consolation at this point, but you received the gift of
eight more years with your Dad than I had with mine. Eight years is enough
time to go all the way through high school *and* college -- no small gift.

I trust you used this "extra" time wisely.

In the ten years since my Dad flew home, (and the four years since my Mom
joined him) I've learned that every moment is precious. Good luck to you,
and my condolences on your loss.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[rkane33]

Thanks for the kind words, Jay.

The last eight years with my father were well spent. My sister was born when
he was 48 years old. He always worried if he would live long enough
to see her graduate from High School. He did, and later got to see her
graduate from UCLA, then get married. He didn't get to see a grandchild
though.

Clear skys, John

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> > Tuesday my father died of a heart attack. He was 82 years old and we had
> > over the years known that some day he would not be with us. That still
> > didn't stop the pain. I have yet to make it through a day without crying.
>
> I know it's little consolation at this point, but you received the gift of
> eight more years with your Dad than I had with mine.

and thirteen more than I had with mine. In my case, it was more numbing
than tearful.

George Patterson
They say that nothing's certain except death and taxes. The thing is,
death doesn't get worse every time Congress goes into session.
Will Rogers

[Bob Fry]

It's true, life is unfair. But there's another side to that
unfairness...what I say below is by no means meant to detract from the
tragedy the original poster wrote about, but simply to remind me, and
others, of the flip side of life's unfairness.

Life IS unfair. Why am I living in one of the best times in history
(early 21st century), in one of the better countries (USA), in one of
the best areas in that country (Northern California), with a good job
and great pastime--flying, and a fun flying machine--Aircoupe?

Sure, others make more money, and have yet better homes and airplanes,
but realistically, I'm better off than 99.9% of people in recorded
history. Why me? I didn't do anything to deserve any of this, just
like to guy described in the original post didn't deserve his sudden
death. Stupid, random stuff happens for better and for worse, and
it's a mistake to try to explain it, cause and effect.

Enjoy the good when it comes, knowing bad stuff is not far behind.
Endure the bad, knowing that good stuff will happen. I'm enjoying my
little airplane now and at the same time I can sorrow with the poster
about his loss. Such is life. For all of us, enjoy what you have
now, even knowing that time will take it away and death is our fate in
the end.


Neal > writes:

> We have one less pilot now. :-(
[. . .]
> Life is not fair at all.
[. . .]
> Carpe diem folks.
>
> Unexpected bad sh*t can happen to you at anytime without warning and
> thru no fault of your own.
>
> How many times are you alive? Only once? That's right.
>
> I am now so glad that I learned to fly and have my own humble little
> airplane. It makes a difference. I think it really does.

[Newps]

Bob Fry wrote:


> Life IS unfair. Why am I living in one of the best times in history
> (early 21st century), in one of the better countries (USA), in one of
> the best areas in that country (Northern California), with a good job
> and great pastime--flying, and a fun flying machine--Aircoupe?

(Cue Mr. Hotze for his miserable outlook on life and his it's all your
fault USA attitude)

[Martin Hotze]

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:13:22 GMT, Newps wrote:

>> Life IS unfair. Why am I living in one of the best times in history
>> (early 21st century), in one of the better countries (USA), in one of
>> the best areas in that country (Northern California), with a good job
>> and great pastime--flying, and a fun flying machine--Aircoupe?
>
>(Cue Mr. Hotze for his miserable outlook on life and his it's all your
>fault USA attitude)


can you point me to some of my outlooks where I stated that life is so
miserable?

Some things in life are fate or kismet or god-given or whatever you want to
call it, on some things influence can be taken on.




BTW: is nowhere.com your domain or are you allowed to use it?

Whois info for, nowhere.com:
Registrant:
Lisa Seaman
1621 Haight Street
Apt 26
San Francisco, CA 94117
US

#m
--
http://www.usawatch.org/ http://www.alternet.org/
Don't like your neighbor? -> https://tips.fbi.gov/

Bombing for peace is like ****ing for virginity.

[Newps]

Martin Hotze wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:13:22 GMT, Newps wrote:
>
>
>>>Life IS unfair. Why am I living in one of the best times in history
>>>(early 21st century), in one of the better countries (USA), in one of
>>>the best areas in that country (Northern California), with a good job
>>>and great pastime--flying, and a fun flying machine--Aircoupe?
>>
>>(Cue Mr. Hotze for his miserable outlook on life and his it's all your
>>fault USA attitude)
>
>
>
> can you point me to some of my outlooks where I stated that life is so
> miserable?

Yes, any post you make. Your outlook is so horrible I would hate to be
you. If the rest of Europe has your outlook it's no wonder you are in
the state you are.


> BTW: is nowhere.com your domain or are you allowed to use it?

I pulled it out of my ass when I configured the computer.


>
> Whois info for, nowhere.com:
> Registrant:
> Lisa Seaman
> 1621 Haight Street
> Apt 26
> San Francisco, CA 94117
> US

Poor Lisa.

[Peter Gottlieb]

Funny, I would have expected "nowhere" to be more in the middle of the
country, not San Francisco.


"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
>
> BTW: is nowhere.com your domain or are you allowed to use it?
>
> Whois info for, nowhere.com:
> Registrant:
> Lisa Seaman
> 1621 Haight Street
> Apt 26
> San Francisco, CA 94117
> US

[Jay Honeck]

> Funny, I would have expected "nowhere" to be more in the middle of the
> country, not San Francisco.

Hey -- watch it! ;)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

Thanks, Bob, for that breath of common-sense fresh air. The knife of fate
cuts both ways.

It won't help John through his grief at the moment, but it certainly jives
with everything I've been telling my children. As much as the media likes
to emphasize the negative, and the "do-gooders" love to wring their hands in
feigned concern, these really ARE the "good old days", and no people in
recorded history has ever lived better than us. (I'm talking specifically
Americans now, although even Martin probably agrees with this one...)

We're living in the only society in history that has FAT poor people, for
God's sake. Imagine THAT, just 100 years ago?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[David Megginson]

"Jay Honeck" > writes:

>> Funny, I would have expected "nowhere" to be more in the middle of the
>> country, not San Francisco.
>
> Hey -- watch it! ;)

Actually San Francisco is closer -- remember Gertrude Stein's famous
description of Oakland: "there's no there, there".


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

[Hamish Reid]

In article >,
David Megginson > wrote:

> "Jay Honeck" > writes:
>
> >> Funny, I would have expected "nowhere" to be more in the middle of the
> >> country, not San Francisco.
> >
> > Hey -- watch it! ;)
>
> Actually San Francisco is closer -- remember Gertrude Stein's famous
> description of Oakland: "there's no there, there".

Yes, and we Oaklanders have taken it to heart -- a currently popular
semi-official flag that flies on buildings all over the city has the
word "There" superimposed across an oak in the background.

It's a pity that the real dirt on her quote was that she was just
bemoaning the fact that where she'd grown up was no longer there
(meaning it had been demolished, rather than there was nothing in
Oaktown), but hey, that really spoils a nice story :-).

Hamish

[David Megginson]

Hamish Reid > writes:

>> Actually San Francisco is closer -- remember Gertrude Stein's famous
>> description of Oakland: "there's no there, there".

> It's a pity that the real dirt on her quote was that she was just
> bemoaning the fact that where she'd grown up was no longer there
> (meaning it had been demolished, rather than there was nothing in
> Oaktown), but hey, that really spoils a nice story :-).

I'm not at all surprised. It's amazing how many famous quotations are
learned of context: "a little learning is a dangerous thing" (Pope
goes on to suggest a *lot* of learning), "good fences make good
neighbours" (Frost goes on to say that this doesn't make sense unless
livestock is involved), etc. etc.


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

[Dennis O'Connor]

Worse than that, it is the poor, those on welfare, etc., who are
significantly more fat than the affluent of the population... First time in
the history of man on this planet that those on the bottom are corpulant,
and those at the top are fit...

Denny

"Jay Honeck" > >
> We're living in the only society in history that has FAT poor people, for
> God's sake. Imagine THAT, just 100 years ago?

[Hamish Reid]

In article >,
David Megginson > wrote:

> Hamish Reid > writes:
>
> >> Actually San Francisco is closer -- remember Gertrude Stein's famous
> >> description of Oakland: "there's no there, there".
>
> > It's a pity that the real dirt on her quote was that she was just
> > bemoaning the fact that where she'd grown up was no longer there
> > (meaning it had been demolished, rather than there was nothing in
> > Oaktown), but hey, that really spoils a nice story :-).
>
> I'm not at all surprised. It's amazing how many famous quotations are
> learned of context: "a little learning is a dangerous thing" (Pope
> goes on to suggest a *lot* of learning), "good fences make good
> neighbours" (Frost goes on to say that this doesn't make sense unless
> livestock is involved), etc. etc.

Or the famous Emerson quote which is usually rendered something like
"Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds", which isn't quite what he
really meant at all...

Hamish

[Newps]

Peter Duniho wrote:
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:ySDZa.117114$Ho3.15619@sccrnsc03...
>
>>We're living in the only society in history that has FAT poor people, for
>>God's sake. Imagine THAT, just 100 years ago?
>
>
> IMHO, it's just a new twist on the same old problem of poverty.
>
> Poor people aren't fat because they get enough to eat. They are fat because
> food technology has developed to a point where caloric substance is
> available dirt cheap, but not in anything of high quality. Poor people eat
> what they can afford, which turns out to mostly be junk food.
>
> The fresher the food, the less processed the food, and the fewer additives,
> the more it costs. A completely organic diet, arguably the healthiest
> approach, is significantly more expensive than spending a few bucks at
> McDonald's every meal.
>
> This is an oversimplification, of course. There are other factors in why
> poor people tend to be fat, and of course, there are still plenty of wealthy
> people who are overweight too. These are all generalizations. But I don't
> think the large number of overweight poor people is in any way indicative of
> a particular standard of living. If anything, poor people today have worse
> nutrition that they did 100 years ago.

That's all interesting but the fact is what we call poor really isn't
poor. Imagine some guy sitting in the dirt of his hut in some African
backwater laughing becaue the Americans declare somebody that makes $20K
per year "poor." We have the richest poor people in the world.

[Peter Duniho]

"Robert Perkins" > wrote in message
...
> It is, since a diet of conventionally farmed fresh foods (potatoes,
> in-season fruits and veggies, inexpensive meats) is significantly
> cheaper than McDonald's at every meal, and also cheaper than buying
> "organic" foods.

Not a debate worth having here. However, it is my opinion that a large host
of maladies appearing today are a result of mass produced food. Further,
there are huge hidden costs with mass produced food, very similar to those
associated with energy (including government subsidy). Just because the
beef is between $2-10/pound in the grocery, that doesn't mean that's all it
costs.

If you wish to disagree, fine. There is little documented evidence one way
or the other regarding the hazards of mass-produced food. Just a lot of
circumstantial evidence. The data on the hidden costs is easier to find,
however.

> Oh, I disagree entirely with that. Unbalanced nutrition is a problem
> among all Americans

And is worse among the poor, just as obesity is.

Pete

[Gene Seibel]

But the African has a sense of humor. Something we are very short on. ;)
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

> That's all interesting but the fact is what we call poor really isn't
> poor. Imagine some guy sitting in the dirt of his hut in some African
> backwater laughing becaue the Americans declare somebody that makes $20K
> per year "poor." We have the richest poor people in the world.

[Snowbird]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message >...
> Poor people aren't fat because they get enough to eat. They are fat because
> food technology has developed to a point where caloric substance is
> available dirt cheap, but not in anything of high quality. Poor people eat
> what they can afford, which turns out to mostly be junk food.

> The fresher the food, the less processed the food, and the fewer additives,
> the more it costs. A completely organic diet, arguably the healthiest
> approach, is significantly more expensive than spending a few bucks at
> McDonald's every meal.

Actually, Pete, as someone who lived on a food budget of $20/month
for prolonged times, it's not true that healthy fresh food costs more
than "a few bucks at McDonalds". I'll leave the debate about whether
"organic" has real meaning and what it means for another newsgroup,
let's just talk about fresh or unprocessed foods like carrots
potatoes, beans, and rice vs. pre-packaged food from boxes.

But I'll put it up front that it will sum to, you're right in principle
but mistaken in the details and reasons.

As someone who has "BTDT" I can tell you the cheapest way to eat is
to go to the farmer's market and come home with 20 lbs of potatoes,
10 lbs of onions, 3 lbs of carrots, celery, couple heads of cabbage,
and some in-season fruit. You stick all that in a backpack or canvas
bags or what-have-you and lug it home on public transit. Then you go
to the local ethnic market and buy a big sack of dried beans and another
of rice, not the best quality. At the supermarket you buy veg. oil,
generic flour, and cheap pasta. Maybe powdered milk. Maybe canned
tuna. Cheese is a special treat, so is fresh milk or butter. Bottle
of generic vitamins pref. catch Puritan's 3-for-1 semi-yearly sale
and keep the spares in the fridge.

What do you eat? Various veg. and bean soups and stews. Chili
and rice. Dahl and rice. Potato pancakes. Baked potatoes stuffed
with veggies. Pasta w/ veggie sauce, maybe veggie and bean sauce.
It's very healthy and very cheap.

What's the catch? Well, first, it takes stable storage space. You
have to buy in bulk and have a place to keep the stuff where it won't
spoil or be infested by rodents or bugs. You need a 'fridge and
electricity which will stay on to keep the veggies through the summer,
and also to be able to freeze grains and beans to kill insect larvae
before storing them at room temp.

Second, you need some knowledge. I can cook beans and rice every
day for a month and have them taste and appear different each day,
because I can cook in the style of 4 major cuisines. But, that
takes a lot more know-how than fixing box mac-n-cheese. Then you
get into issues of culture and palatability to self and family. My
in-laws won't eat a lot of what I cook, for example, while friends
gobble it down and say it's delicious. It's too far from their
experience. Psychologically it wouldn't work for them.

Third, you need planning, both to have the money to buy cheaply
in bulk, and to do the advance prep so dinner will be ready before
10 pm. To buy different beans and spices every week so that after
a couple months you have some variety.

Fourth, you need some time. You have to be able to take a Saturday
morning once a month and go to the markets. You have to have time
to chop veggies and wash beans and get it going in a crockpot or
something while you work, or else have a couple hours to cook dinner.
For people who have many kids and are working 2 shifts already, that's
non-trivial.

Transportation is also an issue in a lot of places. It might take
3 bus changes and 2 hrs, not so simple while you're lugging around
40 lbs of veggies and herding a gaggle of kids. Or it might just
take a car, which means gas and maybe parking issues. So you go to
the local market, and in the poor areas of most cities that means
cheap box and canned food and expensive, poor quality fruits and
veggies.

Lastly, while it's much much cheaper than "a few bucks at McDonalds
every meal" especially when you're feeding several mouths, it DOES
turn out that prepared, boxed foods from places like Aldi's are
even cheaper. Stuff like scalloped potatoes, mac-n-cheese, Ramen
noodles. AND, it needs less planning, less preparation, and less
care in storage. It also satisfies cultural issues for a lot of
people. But, you're right, it's crap -- high in calories and low
in nutrition.

It is true that there are issues involved w/ poverty and nutrition,
but they aren't that simple as "fresh food is more expensive than
McDonalds". Anyone who thinks that hasn't had much experience feeding
5 mouths on a tight budget.

Cheers,
Sydney

[Donovan]

(Gene Seibel) wrote in message >...
> But the African has a sense of humor. Something we are very short on. ;)
> --
> Gene Seibel
> Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
> Because I fly, I envy no one.
>
> > That's all interesting but the fact is what we call poor really isn't
> > poor. Imagine some guy sitting in the dirt of his hut in some African
> > backwater laughing becaue the Americans declare somebody that makes $20K
> > per year "poor." We have the richest poor people in the world.

These rec.aviation forums really **** me off sometimes. All some of
you seem to do is high-jack threads and have ****ing matches. You few
jack-asses that high-jacked this thread go IM each other somewhere and
leave this thread to the topic, which in case you have forgotten is
tragic and very troubling.

Donovan

[Peter Duniho]

"Donovan" > wrote in message
om...
> [...] You few
> jack-asses that high-jacked this thread go IM each other somewhere and
> leave this thread to the topic

Are you serious? This thread was off-topic from the get-go.

Get a grip.

[Peter Duniho]

"Snowbird" > wrote in message
om...
> It is true that there are issues involved w/ poverty and nutrition,
> but they aren't that simple as "fresh food is more expensive than
> McDonalds".

IMHO, you just proved my point. All five components of your low-cost meal
plan are in short supply for most poor people in this country. Education
being one of the most significant.

Pete

[Peter H. Schmidt]

Peter Duniho wrote:

> However, that's not my point. You have the same tunnel vision Jay has. All
> I'm saying is that it's fallacious to think that the obesity of poor people
> in any way indicates an improvement in their nutrition. I would bet that
> more people die of obesity-related illness today than died of starvation in
> 1903 (per capita, of course).

And I wouldn't bet that, so now we're even, since neither of us has
data.

Our fundamental disagreement seems to be that I believe things have
gotten significantly better for pretty much everyone (though not by
the same amounts, but still better for all), and you seem to believe
that things haven't. Your privilege, of course.

And now that the thread has completely departed from the realms of
aviation...

....Peter
--
Peter H. Schmidt Lifting Mind Inc.
_/ Speaking \_ 2 Ewell Avenue
www.liftingmind.com \ for myself / Lexington, MA 02421
fax: 781 863-8858 tel: 781 863-5200