My Plane Almost Became an Insurance Claim

[JimC]

I don't know all the details and what I know is second hand, but it appears
a prospective buyer of a Navion lost control of the plane on the ramp and
caused some serious damage. This happened mid week at Avion Jet Center,
Sanford Airport (SFB), just north of Orlando, FL.

Allegedly, the prospective buyer started the plane and suffered a seat
slide-back with the throttle and prop control pushed all the way in. The
plane accelerated rapidly toward a dual line of privately owned tied-down
planes. The first line planes were facing the Navion and mine was nearly
directly in line. Fortunately (for me) the P-factor turned the Navion a
little to the left and it clipped the right wing of a Cherokee that was tied
down next to mine. The impact helped the Navion lift off the ground a
little and it continued into a trailer and building before stopping. I
guess someone was in the trailer (don't know if this was a camping type or
just a hauling trailer) and they jumped out just in time to avoid being
seriously hurt. After looking at the damage to the Navion it's amazing that
the pilot was reportedly only slightly injured. It's also fortunate that no
fire broke out.

Things could have been much worse. Normally there are fuel trucks parked
next to the Cherokee that was hit. The path of the Navion would have put it
directly into the trucks. The results would not have been good.

If the path had been just a few more feet to the left, the Navion would have
gone into the Avion Jet Center hangar and impacted a Citation III.

If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll take some pictures of the Navion to share
on the net. It's really banged up.

JimC

[Jay Honeck]

> I don't know all the details and what I know is second hand, but it
appears
> a prospective buyer of a Navion lost control of the plane on the ramp and
> caused some serious damage. This happened mid week at Avion Jet Center,
> Sanford Airport (SFB), just north of Orlando, FL.

Wow, what a headache. Can you say "litigation"?

I wonder whose insurance company is going to own what in the end?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[BTIZ]

> I wonder whose insurance company is going to own what in the end?

The sellers... he's the one that let the prospective buyer in the cockpit.

BT

[Roger Long]

Another good reason to lean to the max on the ground. If a passenger bumps
the throttle or a cable breaks, the engine will just quit.

[Mike Rapoport]

This kind of thing helps to explain the current insurance rates!

Mike
MU-2


"JimC" > wrote in message
...
> I don't know all the details and what I know is second hand, but it
appears
> a prospective buyer of a Navion lost control of the plane on the ramp and
> caused some serious damage. This happened mid week at Avion Jet Center,
> Sanford Airport (SFB), just north of Orlando, FL.
>
> Allegedly, the prospective buyer started the plane and suffered a seat
> slide-back with the throttle and prop control pushed all the way in. The
> plane accelerated rapidly toward a dual line of privately owned tied-down
> planes. The first line planes were facing the Navion and mine was nearly
> directly in line. Fortunately (for me) the P-factor turned the Navion a
> little to the left and it clipped the right wing of a Cherokee that was
tied
> down next to mine. The impact helped the Navion lift off the ground a
> little and it continued into a trailer and building before stopping. I
> guess someone was in the trailer (don't know if this was a camping type or
> just a hauling trailer) and they jumped out just in time to avoid being
> seriously hurt. After looking at the damage to the Navion it's amazing
that
> the pilot was reportedly only slightly injured. It's also fortunate that
no
> fire broke out.
>
> Things could have been much worse. Normally there are fuel trucks parked
> next to the Cherokee that was hit. The path of the Navion would have put
it
> directly into the trucks. The results would not have been good.
>
> If the path had been just a few more feet to the left, the Navion would
have
> gone into the Avion Jet Center hangar and impacted a Citation III.
>
> If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll take some pictures of the Navion to share
> on the net. It's really banged up.
>
> JimC
>
>
>

[Jeff Franks]

Seat slideback?????

OMG, thats $480 million in damages according to our legal system <bad
sarcasm intended>


"JimC" > wrote in message
...
> I don't know all the details and what I know is second hand, but it
appears
> a prospective buyer of a Navion lost control of the plane on the ramp and
> caused some serious damage. This happened mid week at Avion Jet Center,
> Sanford Airport (SFB), just north of Orlando, FL.
>
> Allegedly, the prospective buyer started the plane and suffered a seat
> slide-back with the throttle and prop control pushed all the way in. The
> plane accelerated rapidly toward a dual line of privately owned tied-down
> planes. The first line planes were facing the Navion and mine was nearly
> directly in line. Fortunately (for me) the P-factor turned the Navion a
> little to the left and it clipped the right wing of a Cherokee that was
tied
> down next to mine. The impact helped the Navion lift off the ground a
> little and it continued into a trailer and building before stopping. I
> guess someone was in the trailer (don't know if this was a camping type or
> just a hauling trailer) and they jumped out just in time to avoid being
> seriously hurt. After looking at the damage to the Navion it's amazing
that
> the pilot was reportedly only slightly injured. It's also fortunate that
no
> fire broke out.
>
> Things could have been much worse. Normally there are fuel trucks parked
> next to the Cherokee that was hit. The path of the Navion would have put
it
> directly into the trucks. The results would not have been good.
>
> If the path had been just a few more feet to the left, the Navion would
have
> gone into the Avion Jet Center hangar and impacted a Citation III.
>
> If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll take some pictures of the Navion to share
> on the net. It's really banged up.
>
> JimC
>
>
>

[JimC]

I put some pictures on the web at address - http://navionpics.swegian.com/

"JimC" > wrote in message
...
> I don't know all the details and what I know is second hand, but it
appears
> a prospective buyer of a Navion lost control of the plane on the ramp and
> caused some serious damage. This happened mid week at Avion Jet Center,
> Sanford Airport (SFB), just north of Orlando, FL.
>
> Allegedly, the prospective buyer started the plane and suffered a seat
> slide-back with the throttle and prop control pushed all the way in. The
> plane accelerated rapidly toward a dual line of privately owned tied-down
> planes. The first line planes were facing the Navion and mine was nearly
> directly in line. Fortunately (for me) the P-factor turned the Navion a
> little to the left and it clipped the right wing of a Cherokee that was
tied
> down next to mine. The impact helped the Navion lift off the ground a
> little and it continued into a trailer and building before stopping. I
> guess someone was in the trailer (don't know if this was a camping type or
> just a hauling trailer) and they jumped out just in time to avoid being
> seriously hurt. After looking at the damage to the Navion it's amazing
that
> the pilot was reportedly only slightly injured. It's also fortunate that
no
> fire broke out.
>
> Things could have been much worse. Normally there are fuel trucks parked
> next to the Cherokee that was hit. The path of the Navion would have put
it
> directly into the trucks. The results would not have been good.
>
> If the path had been just a few more feet to the left, the Navion would
have
> gone into the Avion Jet Center hangar and impacted a Citation III.
>
> If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll take some pictures of the Navion to share
> on the net. It's really banged up.
>
> JimC
>
>
>

[JimC]

Could be, I'm not an expert in either. What are some of the differences
between the two?

The FBO folks thought it was a Navion. Either way, it looks like it was in
pretty good shape prior to the incident. Terrible loss of a beautiful old
plane. I feel bad for the owner. Can you imagine what he felt like
watching his plane turn into basically trash in a matter of seconds?

JimC

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> JimC wrote:
> >
> > I put some pictures on the web at address -
http://navionpics.swegian.com/
>
> Looks more like a Meyer than a Navion.

[G.R. Patterson III]

JimC wrote:
>
> The FBO folks thought it was a Navion.

The center picture of the third row clearly shows the Navion logo.

George Patterson
They say that nothing's certain except death and taxes. The thing is,
death doesn't get worse every time Congress goes into session.
Will Rogers

[Jay Honeck]

> I put some pictures on the web at address - http://navionpics.swegian.com/

Augh! Those kind of pictures turn my stomach.

Looks like it was a beautiful plane. (Of course, I've never seen an ugly
Navion. Even the dogs are cool!)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Robert M. Gary]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message news:<vPjZa.7863$2g.4280@fed1read05>...
> > I wonder whose insurance company is going to own what in the end?
>
> The sellers... he's the one that let the prospective buyer in the cockpit.

Huh, the only liability the seller has is if he didn't maintain the
plane correctly. Allowing someone to borrow your toys does not
necessarily make you civil liable for their actions. The pilot better
hope he has insurance if he has any assets.

[john smith]

john smith wrote:
>
> JimC wrote:
> >
> > I put some pictures on the web at address - http://navionpics.swegian.com/
>
> Looks more like a Meyer than a Navion.

Aha!!!
A Rangemaster! (Thanks, Margy)

[Margy Natalie]

Sridhar Rajagopal wrote:

> Would the manufacturer come into the picture here? Pointing at a
> defective seat, leading to seat slide out, etc. Just wondering ...

Yeah, let me see... The manufacturer made a seat well over 50 years ago
and has had no input to how that seat was maintained or modified...
Sure, we could sue them! Now would you have to find the actual
manufacturer that made the plane at the time or the present owner of the
type certificate as it has passed hands a number of time since. Of
course I've never heard of a Navion having a slide out problem (I'm
lucky if I can get mine to move).

Let's face it, if you don't maintain things and/or set them properly
they aren't going to work. I would bet the pin on the seat assembly
wasn't fitted into the hole properly.

Margy

[Sridhar Rajagopal]

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
<title></title>
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Yeah, the scenario I was looking at was a known problem with slideout
in a Navion (or another plane in a similar situation). <br>
<br>
I know that this was an unfortunate accident, but there seem to be a
lot of questions regarding blame, and liability. Both the seller and
buyer would seem to be affected by this. <br>
<br>
-Sridhar<br>
<br>
Margy Natalie wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" ">
<pre wrap="">
Sridhar Rajagopal wrote:

</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Would the manufacturer come into the picture here? Pointing at a
defective seat, leading to seat slide out, etc. Just wondering ...
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
Yeah, let me see... The manufacturer made a seat well over 50 years ago
and has had no input to how that seat was maintained or modified...
Sure, we could sue them! Now would you have to find the actual
manufacturer that made the plane at the time or the present owner of the
type certificate as it has passed hands a number of time since. Of
course I've never heard of a Navion having a slide out problem (I'm
lucky if I can get mine to move).

Let's face it, if you don't maintain things and/or set them properly
they aren't going to work. I would bet the pin on the seat assembly
wasn't fitted into the hole properly.

Margy

</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

[Roger Halstead]

On 10 Aug 2003 10:10:48 -0700, (Craig) wrote:
And then there was the one down in the Detroit area where some one
hand propped to get started which it did...and promptly taxied right
into some one's just finished G-III, or lancair IV. I forget which.

Then we had one at our airport where a guy was taxying back to the
hanger leaning the engine he said to keep it cool. OK, so he had a
different physics professor....

It quit. He pushed the mixture back in, got out and propped it
(without retarding the throttle). Said plane decided to leave without
him...He caught the strut, but tripped and stuck his nose in the dirt.
The plane continued on, took off and ended up in the trees at the SW
corner of the airport..

It looked kinda forlorn hangin there.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

>We had an incident like this when I was in tech school in '79. Fairly
>new C-172 with an instructor and a passenger. I think the passenger
>was an FAA guy or rep, but can't remember. Aircraft was started like
>normal and began a very slow taxi. The instructor added a little power
>as they needed to do a 180 and go up our slightly inclined main ramp.
>Just as he added power, the seat broke completely off the tracks. He
>went over backwards, throttle full in and yoke full back and then bent
>downward. Passenger got tangled up with his flailing about and ended
>up bailing out. The a/c hit the big refueler that was parked about
>200 feet away. Spinner went into the side of it right between the tank
>and the cab. The only thing that saved the field from having a big
>problem was the mechanics had just dumped the entire 2000 or so
>gallons of avgas to change a fitting out on the tank bottom that was
>leaking. Did a few hundred bucks damage to the tanker, but totaled
>the 172.
>
>Craig C.

[Dan Foster]

In article >, JimC > wrote:
> I don't know all the details and what I know is second hand, but it appears
> a prospective buyer of a Navion lost control of the plane on the ramp and
> caused some serious damage. This happened mid week at Avion Jet Center,
> Sanford Airport (SFB), just north of Orlando, FL.

Haven't seen the pictures since looks like web site no longer nonexistent
but sure sounds bad. :( Glad the outcome was good from human angle, even if
very expensive on the wallet angle.

And quite fortunate for Jim, indeed!

> Allegedly, the prospective buyer started the plane and suffered a seat
> slide-back with the throttle and prop control pushed all the way in.

That's just the thing I don't understand...

Seems to me that if your seat slid back suddenly and quite unexpectedly,
the natural human reaction is to grab *something*, _anything_ to hold on to
-- that means, for one thing, pulling the yoke towards you, possibly all
the way if you had a full travel for the seat sliding backwards.

Now, the thing is... if your hand was on the throttle, wouldn't you also
happen to pull it outwards (ie, reducing power) if you slid backwards?

Granted, I'm more familiar with the Cessna spamcan designs so I don't know
if the throttles in other planes are designed differently.

It just seems unlikely to me that the throttle would have had been 'all the
way in' for taxiing, so it's more probable that it was pushed inwards while
travelling backwards... but that's precisely what I don't understand how
could be possible in the first place.

-Dan

P.S. I normally wonder how to react if seat slid back during the later part
of the takeoff roll... a number of NTSB reports on takeoff stalls due to
seat sliding backwards, with poor results.

That's just a hidden what-if concern, but I'll admit I hadn't quite thought
of it as ordinarily something to be concerned about during taxiing.

[Ron Natalie]

"Dan Foster" > wrote in message ...


>
> Now, the thing is... if your hand was on the throttle, wouldn't you also
> happen to pull it outwards (ie, reducing power) if you slid backwards?

That was the great problem with the Cessna seat latch failures is that
most people grab the yoke to try to save themselves. If you'd grab
anything else, you'd be OK.

>
> Granted, I'm more familiar with the Cessna spamcan designs so I don't know
> if the throttles in other planes are designed differently.
>
> It just seems unlikely to me that the throttle would have had been 'all the
> way in' for taxiing, so it's more probable that it was pushed inwards while
> travelling backwards... but that's precisely what I don't understand how
> could be possible in the first place.
>

The throttle in the Navion works the same way as the Cessna. And while it
takes a good goose of the throttle to get the big squishy tires to start to roll
on the Navion, you're not anywhere near full thorttle when you do that. If he'd
pulled the mixture (also about the same as the Cessna, only it's not a vernier
control), the plane would have stopped in short order.

I don't understand how it can "slide back" in that circumstances. Even the
Cessna seats take some push to move them back on level ground. It was in
the nose high attitude that the problems occur. The Navion seats take even
more force to slide them back (after you pull the pin).

[Roger Long]

I always take off with just the knuckle of my first finger holding the
throttle in and my hand in a fist. That way, if the seat slides back, I
won't have to deal with restoring power at the same time I'm trying to
remember to let go of the yoke.
--
Roger Long