Re: airliner parachutes and guns in the cockpit

[Jay Honeck]

> Why don't airliners have parachutes for
> every passenger? Wouldn't the passengers
> of the DC-10 that crashed in Sioux City, IA
> have survived if they had been able to jump?

Hee hee!

Can't you just picture the passenger "bail-out!" light malfunctioning in
flight? :)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter Duniho]

"Ted Huffmire" > wrote in message
...
> Why don't airliners have parachutes for every passenger?

In most airline accidents, even the floating seat cushion doesn't do any
good. Parachutes would be a waste of money and useful load.

> If guns are allowed in the cockpit, then isn't it possible for a dishonest
pilot
> to hand the gun to someone else past the security checkpoint at the
airport?

See Tim's reply. By the way, allowing guns in the cockpit isn't what allows
the potential for abuse. There are numerous employees that work in and
around airliners who could get a gun onto an airliner, with or without
security checkpoints.

Airline security is there to make you feel better, nothing more. It's not
possible to prevent a determined individual or group of people from doing
harm, not while retaining anything remotely close to a reasonable quality of
life.

Pete

[Mackfly]

>From: Ted Huffmire


>isn't it possible for a dishonest pilot
>to hand the gun to someone else past the
>security checkpoint at the airport?
>Would the TSA have to verify that the gun
>made it onto the plane before the aircraft
>door is closed?

You want to stop hi-jackings? Put a kBar on the back of every airline seat
with a little sign---For passenger use during a hi-jack event. Mac (love to
bare arms)

[Ted Huffmire]

Peter Duniho wrote:
>
>
>
> In most airline accidents, even the floating seat cushion doesn't do any
> good. Parachutes would be a waste of money and useful load.
>

If you are on a transpacific or transatlantic flight,
and there is a loss of cabin pressure, how long
do the oxygen generators have to last? (the ones
attached to the masks that drop from the ceiling)

If they only have to last 30 minutes, the pilot would
have to descend to an altitude where there is enough
oxygen to breathe. But this would increase the fuel
burn of the engines. Would there be enough fuel to
get back to land?

Ted

[pac plyer]

Ted Huffmire > wrote in message >...
> Why don't airliners have parachutes for
> every passenger? Wouldn't the passengers
> of the DC-10 that crashed in Sioux City, IA
> have survived if they had been able to jump?
> Would the TSA give a passenger hell for
> trying to bring his own as a carry on?
>
> If guns are allowed in the cockpit, then
> isn't it possible for a dishonest pilot
> to hand the gun to someone else past the
> security checkpoint at the airport?
> Would the TSA have to verify that the gun
> made it onto the plane before the aircraft
> door is closed?
>
> Ted

Good questions Ted. Some B-52's and tankers had such a bailout chute
in the cockpit. It hurt a lot of people who tried to use it.
They're just too fast to get out. Swept-wing jets are too difficult
to evac in the air when you're talking about hundreds of untrained
passengers. Heck, it's hard to just get them to follow the simple
command: "jump and sit" when the escape slides are deployed on the
ground. A fair percentage always smack their tailbones on the door
seal, break ankles, fall off the slide because they won't sit back.
The winds blows the slides around and makes things worse. A few always
try to use it like a rope because they're scared and that fouls up
everything for those behind them.

In theory, a dishonest cop could come to your house, shoot you, and
phoney up the paperwork to say it was self defense. But at some point
in your life, you're just going to have to trust someone with a gun
not to do that. Besides if a pilot wanted to kill you, he wouldn't
need a gun. Just push the stick over into the ground like that guy
did at JAL (DC-8), or the guy at SilkAir.
Don't worry about pilots with guns.

[gatt]

"Mackfly" > wrote in message
news:20030812212418.20867.00000544@mb-

> You want to stop hi-jackings? Put a kBar on the back of every airline
seat
> with a little sign---

Ka-Bar. And, it turns out, both my jeep and my van are safe from hijacking
based upon your prescribed preventative measures.


Combat knives....bad idea, but a seat cushion seems perfectly capable of
stopping the slash of, say, a box knife.

-c

[Big John]

Ted

On several occasions I and others ferried fighters across the US and
rode commercial home. On occasion we tried to bring out chutes (in
duffle bags) into the cabin and store them in the overhead bins. We
were not permitted to do so and as I recall was told it would scare
the other passengers if I(we) did. Said there was some rule about no
chutes in cabin and they had to be checked in belly.

Don't know how we could have gotten out of bird if anything happened
and we had had access to our chutes.


Big John


>Ted Huffmire > wrote in message >...
>> Why don't airliners have parachutes for
>> every passenger? Wouldn't the passengers
>> of the DC-10 that crashed in Sioux City, IA
>> have survived if they had been able to jump?
>> Would the TSA give a passenger hell for
>> trying to bring his own as a carry on?
>>
----clip----

[pac plyer]

"Craig Davidson" > wrote in message t>...
> >>Ted Huffmire wrote:
> >>> Why don't airliners have parachutes for
> >>> every passenger? Wouldn't the passengers
> >>> of the DC-10 that crashed in Sioux City, IA
> >>> have survived if they had been able to jump?
> >>> Would the TSA give a passenger hell for
> >>> trying to bring his own as a carry on?
> >>>
>
> Big John wrote in message ...
> >Ted
> >
> >On occasion we tried to bring out chutes (in
> >duffle bags) into the cabin and store them in the overhead bins. We
> >were not permitted to do so and as I recall was told it would scare
> >the other passengers if I(we) did. Said there was some rule about no
> >chutes in cabin and they had to be checked in belly.
> >
>
> The no parachute rule might be a hold over from the D B Cooper hijacking
> where he used a parachute to get away.
>
> http://www.rotten.com/library/crime/unsolved-crimes/d-b-cooper/

Yes, CAL 727's had a "DB Cooper" switch that weathervaned in flight
preventing the rear airstair clamshell from being able to open. One
day I was jumpseating on my bro's flight and another flight mistook
that device for an open service door - what a disaster: Capt asked him
to investigate, my bro forgot to flip the pressurization to grd,
walked back and managed to open the "fridge" door in the back, and
blew everyone's ears out as it bumped and depressurized. (only
pressurized 200' below field on the ground.)

But in flight, true "plug" doors are nearly impossible to open if the
cabin has any decent differential going. There's thousands of psi
against that door. On D.B's jump he was familar with the physics of
things and forced the crew to depressurize before he went back to open
the door, manually pump the airstair slightly down, and then jump at
14K with the cash. Did he make it? Lots of disagreement on that one.
I think personally, the wake alone could have knocked him out, but
then I've never jumped out of a perfectly good airplane. Never will
either! :-) Seems like I saw a rock video of some nuts jumping out of
an old 727, but then to do that or make the DB movie, maybe they had
some kind of a turb spoiler attatched... still sounds nutty.

pacplyer
just ride it into the ground like a real man!

[Big John]

pac

I'm one for one.Straight and level engine running on last spoon full
of fuel.

10K. Zero zero lanyard on 'D' ring. Long time to float down to the
frozen ground.

Big thump.

Big John

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>but then I've never jumped out of a perfectly good airplane. Never will
>either! :-)

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