Re: Blue Angels Flying Low Over Water.

[Hilton]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> > It was disappointing that only 5 of the Blue Angels showed up on
> Saturday -
> > we had to use our immagination on the opposing pass. Nevertheless, a
> > gorgeous day on the bay.
>
> Wow -- doesn't that mean they had TWO planes down for maintenance? (Or,
> maybe it was a pilot issue?)

I guess. I didn't know they even did the airshow without the full
complement of 6.


> They had a problem with one of their birds right before the airshow in
> LaCrosse (or was it Quad Cities? They're all blending together now...)
this
> year, and simply drove the pilot across the airport to a waiting spare
> F/A-18.

I saw them use a replacement at the Salinas Airshow once (changed during the
'runup').

Hilton

[Hilton]

Big John wrote:
> Hilton
>
> Seen any data on why #6 crashed?

It is officially still under investigation. I believe the delay getting
back in the air was for Captain Chris Striklin to have some time after the
mishap. Imagine yourself in an F-16, about to crash, get blasted out on a
seat and end up horizontal (parachute to seat) looking at the ground from
100-200', and seeing your F-16 go down the runway in a ball of flames.

Have I mentioned I can't wait till Saturday! :)

Hilton

[Morgans]

"Hilton" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Big John wrote:
> > Hilton
> >
> > Seen any data on why #6 crashed?
>
> It is officially still under investigation. I believe the delay getting
> back in the air was for Captain Chris Striklin to have some time after the
> mishap. Imagine yourself in an F-16, about to crash, get blasted out on a
> seat and end up horizontal (parachute to seat) looking at the ground from
> 100-200', and seeing your F-16 go down the runway in a ball of flames.
>
> Have I mentioned I can't wait till Saturday! :)
>
> Hilton
>
>
Add to that, the fact that ejection takes a tremendous toll on the human
body. Some are never capable of high performance flight again.
--
Jim in NC

[Big John]

Jim

Let me speak from personal experience.

When I ejected (in 1969) the seats used a 37 mm shell (same cartridge
as used in the 37 MM anti tank gun from WWII with bullet removed) to
generate the expanding gasses that pushed the piston (with seat
attached) up and out of the cockpit.

If you plot the 'G' force vs time on that system, you find that a very
high 'G' was generated as the cartridge fired. It felt like you were
hit in the butt with a four by four.

I got a compression fracture during my ejection and that was common in
those days for us unfortunates who had to eject. Of course a bad back
was much better than the alternative of not getting out of the
cockpit. I still have pain on occasion from the injury but work
through it with liberal doses of Vodka <G>.

Most Pilots after ejection at that time, sustained some degree of
compression fracture but were able to resume flying shortly after the
event.

The newer seats (like used in the F-16) have a system that spreads the
peak 'G' force during ejection over a longer period of time and thus
generates a lower peak 'G' but the same end speed needed to clear the
tail. After the seat separates from aircraft some rockets attached to
seat push it far enough into the air that there is time for the chute
to open prior to pilot hitting the ground (called zero zero system -
zero altitude, zero airspeed) Pilot could eject sitting still on the
ground. It's rare that a Pilot, in any of the current seats, is
injured during the ejection, if it takes place at any reasonable air
speed.

Injury during the parachute landing is another story and accounts for
most injuries suffered..

On #6. I doubt Chris saw the ground after ejection until after the
chute opened, as he was stabilized on his back as the rockets fired
and seat tried to gain altitude (or from TV of event, stop his rate of
descent imparted by the aircraft) before he separated from seat and
chute opened.

It's nice to see our seats work in tight situations. We have seen the
Russian seats work at the Paris and Farnborough Air Shows on a number
of occasions and in fact the Russian seat was in competition for use
in our new Fighters.

On Saturday, let us know if the full six A/C perform and if Chris is
flying if you can find out. If he is, they are probably pointing at
the aircraft, if not, may be pointing at him.

I'm just surprised that AW has not said one word on the crash.

Lots of politics on this event.

If Pilots fault, he will probably leave team because of time needed to
rehab from 'injuries' (etc).

If A/C problem, will be worded so that the F-16 is not shown to be
NDG.

Big John


On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:46:44 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>
>"Hilton" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>> Big John wrote:
>> > Hilton
>> >
>> > Seen any data on why #6 crashed?
>>
>> It is officially still under investigation. I believe the delay getting
>> back in the air was for Captain Chris Striklin to have some time after the
>> mishap. Imagine yourself in an F-16, about to crash, get blasted out on a
>> seat and end up horizontal (parachute to seat) looking at the ground from
>> 100-200', and seeing your F-16 go down the runway in a ball of flames.
>>
>> Have I mentioned I can't wait till Saturday! :)
>>
>> Hilton
>>
>>
>Add to that, the fact that ejection takes a tremendous toll on the human
>body. Some are never capable of high performance flight again.

[Jay Honeck]

If Pilots fault, he will probably leave team because of time needed to
> rehab from 'injuries' (etc).
>
> If A/C problem, will be worded so that the F-16 is not shown to be
> NDG.

As always, Big John, it's a real pleasure to hear from someone who is very
much "in the know" on this sort of thing. Thanks for taking the time to
educate us all.

Most of us Spam Can pilots can only dream about flying such high performance
beasts...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Big John]

Jim

Todays Houston paper:

AIR FORCE INVESTIGATES CAUSE OF CRASH AT BASE

----- Wichita Falls -----

The US Air Force is investigating what caused a plane to crash during
takeoff at Sheppard AFB.

The T-38A Talon crashed just before 11:00 Tuesday, moments after the
two pilots detected a malfunction and ejected unharmed, said Col Jake
Polumbo, Commander of the 80th Flying Training Wing.

The pilots, whose names were not released, were taken to the base
hospital, but appears neither was injured, he said.

Hours after the crash, the relatively undamaged plane rested on its
belly about half way down a runway, with emergency vehicles clustered
about 100 yards away. The plane apparently had just left the ground
when the malfunction occurred, Polumbp said.

end

Just an example of our current ejection seats that let you eject
either on the R/W or just as you break ground.

Trip to hospital is routine after any crash/ejection.

Glad the troops made it.


Big John


On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:46:44 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:


"Hilton" > wrote in message
nk.net...

----clip----

Add to that, the fact that ejection takes a tremendous toll on the
human body. Some are never capable of high performance flight again.

[John Clear]

In article >,
Big John > wrote:
>
>On Saturday, let us know if the full six A/C perform and if Chris is
>flying if you can find out. If he is, they are probably pointing at
>the aircraft, if not, may be pointing at him.

I was at Salinas on Saturday and they flew five planes, with no
mention at all of why number 6 was missing. Instead of the six
ship delta formation, the five ship formation had number 5 trailing
number 4 (slot).

John
--
John Clear - http://www.panix.com/~jac

[Big John]

John

Tnx for info.

From no show I'd guess they are going to point at Chris (What do I
know :o( ?). Just a WAG from many years in the Military and knowing
how they think. :o(

In my accident they nit picked all around the true cause. After I
retired and sat down with the GCA tape and the accident report (three
inches thick) I found that the GCA forgot the frequency I was on and
was transmitting on the wrong frerquency, so of course I didn't hear
and follow their instructions.Cost three A/C but all survived.

Big John

On 19 Oct 2003 21:00:54 -0700, (John Clear) wrote:

>In article >,
>Big John > wrote:
>>
>>On Saturday, let us know if the full six A/C perform and if Chris is
>>flying if you can find out. If he is, they are probably pointing at
>>the aircraft, if not, may be pointing at him.
>
>I was at Salinas on Saturday and they flew five planes, with no
>mention at all of why number 6 was missing. Instead of the six
>ship delta formation, the five ship formation had number 5 trailing
>number 4 (slot).
>
>John