Permit me a moment, please, to say...

[Robert Perkins]

WOW!

Flying is just SO cool!

I took another Mount St. Helens flight Saturday at noontime. It's a
favorite around here with the folks who want to ride in a plane; first
choice.

So the route of flight was relatively pedestrian, since I've done it a
few times already, weather was pretty good, a nice broken layer at
12,000, with scattered stuff at 10,000 and, I learned, an AIRMET for
moderate turbulence in the region "below 15,000 feet".

We didn't notice any turbulence, so on the north side of the mountain
I called in a PIREP to say so.

What we *did* get, right abeam the dome and crater of the mountain,
was my very first strong mountain updraft. We gained 1000 feet in
*very* short order, and it was astounding how good it felt to ride it.

Of course, upon rounding the mountain we also caught a *down*draft,
which made me glad I didn't try to control altitude during the
unintended climb, that 1000 feet was gone just as fast as it came.

I wonder, from anyone who knows the region: is that a characteristic
of the area? I recall we had a southwesterly flow that day, with winds
aloft from the south at 20 knots or so. Any way to predict that
region?

If anyone is curious I'm happy to post the pictures we took of the
area.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

[C J Campbell]

"Robert Perkins" > wrote in message
...
|
| What we *did* get, right abeam the dome and crater of the mountain,
| was my very first strong mountain updraft. We gained 1000 feet in
| *very* short order, and it was astounding how good it felt to ride it.
|
| Of course, upon rounding the mountain we also caught a *down*draft,
| which made me glad I didn't try to control altitude during the
| unintended climb, that 1000 feet was gone just as fast as it came.
|
| I wonder, from anyone who knows the region: is that a characteristic
| of the area? I recall we had a southwesterly flow that day, with winds
| aloft from the south at 20 knots or so. Any way to predict that
| region?
|

If there is an updraft on one side of a mountain, there will usually be a
downdraft on the other side. Approaching the lee side of a mountain range
should be at an angle in order to allow you to turn away quickly to safety
if the downdraft is too strong. St. Helens sits pretty much by itself amid a
lot of lower mountains, so if you want to maintain altitude you should stay
further away from the mountain when you are on the lee side. I fly in kind
of a teardrop, with the point of the tear on the downwind side of the
mountain. That way I can turn away from the mountain to safety any time that
I encounter a strong downdraft.

See any herds of elk?

[Bob Gardner]

You did, of course, check out the Special Notices in the AIM about circling
the mountain, like no closer than three miles and 3000 ft agl? Not saying
that you couldn't experience up- and downdrafts at greater distances and/or
altitudes, but I think the suggested procedure is intended to minimize the
wind effects. But it is awesome. Didn't have a camera, but I will never
forget flying over the mountain a year or so before it blew, watching a
string of climbers trudging up to the summit. Just like Mt. Fuji, only
closer to home.

Bob Gardner



"Robert Perkins" > wrote in message
...
> WOW!
>
> Flying is just SO cool!
>
> I took another Mount St. Helens flight Saturday at noontime. It's a
> favorite around here with the folks who want to ride in a plane; first
> choice.
>
> So the route of flight was relatively pedestrian, since I've done it a
> few times already, weather was pretty good, a nice broken layer at
> 12,000, with scattered stuff at 10,000 and, I learned, an AIRMET for
> moderate turbulence in the region "below 15,000 feet".
>
> We didn't notice any turbulence, so on the north side of the mountain
> I called in a PIREP to say so.
>
> What we *did* get, right abeam the dome and crater of the mountain,
> was my very first strong mountain updraft. We gained 1000 feet in
> *very* short order, and it was astounding how good it felt to ride it.
>
> Of course, upon rounding the mountain we also caught a *down*draft,
> which made me glad I didn't try to control altitude during the
> unintended climb, that 1000 feet was gone just as fast as it came.
>
> I wonder, from anyone who knows the region: is that a characteristic
> of the area? I recall we had a southwesterly flow that day, with winds
> aloft from the south at 20 knots or so. Any way to predict that
> region?
>
> If anyone is curious I'm happy to post the pictures we took of the
> area.
>
> Rob
>
> --
> [You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
> ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
> educate themselves.
>
> -- Orson Scott Card

[Randy Wentzel]

> If anyone is curious I'm happy to post the pictures we took of the
> area.

Yeah! Post 'em! :-)

Randy

[David H]

Robert Perkins wrote:

> WOW!
>
> Flying is just SO cool!
>
> I took another Mount St. Helens flight Saturday at noontime. It's a
> favorite around here with the folks who want to ride in a plane; first
> choice.

<snip>

> If anyone is curious I'm happy to post the pictures we took of the
> area.

Hi Rob,

Yes indeed, flying - especially here in the Northwest where the scenery
is soooo spectacular - is about the coolest thing I can think of. I
regularly come back from a flight completely charged up about how lucky
we are.

I haven't done it this year, but every time I fly over Mt. St. Helens I'm
always completely awed and inspired. I've never had any problems with
winds/downdrafts, but I give the mountain a pretty wide berth.

If you want to post some photos or even if you don't, I invite you to
come check out the Pacific Northwest Flying website, a place for
Northwest pilots to chat and commiserate on local flying (there's also a
popular "Name That Northwest Airport" game - see how good you are at
identifying the mystery airport of the week). All free, with a friendly
bunch of fellow Northwest pilots. There's a place to upload your photos,
too (and since this newsgroup is not for binaries, i.e. images, it's
probably not appropriate to post them here).

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying

Hope you'll come check it out sometime.

David H
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying forum:
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying

[Robert Perkins]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:19:29 GMT, "Bob Gardner" >
wrote:

>You did, of course, check out the Special Notices in the AIM about circling
>the mountain, like no closer than three miles and 3000 ft agl?

(Checking my sectional)

I was briefed by Seattle FSS the first time I flew it to keep those
distances and make left traffic around the summit. If it's in the AIM,
I don't know it.

Looking at the course I plotted I surmise I was at least three miles
away, with an MSL altitude of 8,500 feet. Until that updraft. Along
the course line that altitude is at least 4000 AGL. No problem.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

[C J Campbell]

"Robert Perkins" > wrote in message
...
| On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:19:29 GMT, "Bob Gardner" >
| wrote:
|
| >You did, of course, check out the Special Notices in the AIM about
circling
| >the mountain, like no closer than three miles and 3000 ft agl?
|
| (Checking my sectional)
|
| I was briefed by Seattle FSS the first time I flew it to keep those
| distances and make left traffic around the summit. If it's in the AIM,
| I don't know it.
|

It is not in the AIM. Bob must have meant the A/FM.

[Jim Fisher]

"Randy Wentzel" > wrote in message
...
> > If anyone is curious I'm happy to post the pictures we took of the
> > area.
>
> Yeah! Post 'em! :-)

Seconded!

--
Jim Fisher

[Robert Perkins]

>> > If anyone is curious I'm happy to post the pictures we took of the
>> > area.
>>
>> Yeah! Post 'em! :-)
>
>Seconded!

Here ya go. It takes so long for the Comcast stuff to upload and
format pictures that I ran out of time after six.

Enjoy!

http://home.comcast.net/~brperkins2

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

[Gene Seibel]

Yes it is SO cool. Took some friends to northern NM to check out a
hunting area a few years ago. It was on the side of a circular
mountain several miles in diameter. We had a strong wind that gave us
an updraft on the side we were inspecting. I discovered I could
throttle back to idle and zig-zag up the side without power. (making
my turns away from the mountain, of course) Once at the top I added
power, went over top and pulled away from the mountain to come around
and do it again. Spent quite some time 'gliding' up that mountain that
day. ;)
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.





> WOW!
>
> Flying is just SO cool!
>
> I took another Mount St. Helens flight Saturday at noontime. It's a
> favorite around here with the folks who want to ride in a plane; first
> choice.
>
> So the route of flight was relatively pedestrian, since I've done it a
> few times already, weather was pretty good, a nice broken layer at
> 12,000, with scattered stuff at 10,000 and, I learned, an AIRMET for
> moderate turbulence in the region "below 15,000 feet".
>
> We didn't notice any turbulence, so on the north side of the mountain
> I called in a PIREP to say so.
>
> What we *did* get, right abeam the dome and crater of the mountain,
> was my very first strong mountain updraft. We gained 1000 feet in
> *very* short order, and it was astounding how good it felt to ride it.
>
> Of course, upon rounding the mountain we also caught a *down*draft,
> which made me glad I didn't try to control altitude during the
> unintended climb, that 1000 feet was gone just as fast as it came.
>
> I wonder, from anyone who knows the region: is that a characteristic
> of the area? I recall we had a southwesterly flow that day, with winds
> aloft from the south at 20 knots or so. Any way to predict that
> region?
>
> If anyone is curious I'm happy to post the pictures we took of the
> area.
>
> Rob

[Martin Kosina]

> I wonder, from anyone who knows the region [Mt. St. helens]: is that a characteristic
> of the area? I recall we had a southwesterly flow that day, with winds
> aloft from the south at 20 knots or so. Any way to predict that
> region?

I was up there on Saturday, too, the wind was more like 220@40 at 10K.
Strong SW flow, fairly typical for this weather pattern. There tends
to be a very strong downdraft on the lee side of the mountain (usually
NE side). Flying *over* the rim can be a fun ride (northbound only!),
but make sure you have plenty of room, the downdraft inside the crater
can be quite spectacular.

Martin

[Robert Perkins]

On 22 Oct 2003 16:47:35 -0700, (Martin Kosina)
wrote:

>I was up there on Saturday, too, the wind was more like 220@40 at 10K.
>Strong SW flow, fairly typical for this weather pattern. There tends
>to be a very strong downdraft on the lee side of the mountain (usually
>NE side). Flying *over* the rim can be a fun ride (northbound only!),
>but make sure you have plenty of room, the downdraft inside the crater
>can be quite spectacular.

That must be the reason for the three mile 3000 AGL recommendation,
which I've never tried to bust.

If things clear up I'm probably going back today.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

[Robert Perkins]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:01:06 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

>| >You did, of course, check out the Special Notices in the AIM about
>circling
>| >the mountain, like no closer than three miles and 3000 ft agl?
>|
>| (Checking my sectional)

>It is not in the AIM. Bob must have meant the A/FM.

I found it in the A/FD in the Special Notices section (is there an
online A/FD anywhere?). I've never busted that guideline; it never
made sense to me to tempt fate. My old CFI scoffed at it, calling it
all kinds of little names.

A couple minutes later I related this thread's story to him, and he
had a very bad reaction, and gave me a 10 minute verbal spanking for
having gone in the first place, a real confidence buster. So now I'm
left wondering if I'm a fool, and how to reconcile scoffing at the
Special Notice with scolding a former student, and whether things
could have gone much worse than they did, given my course line that
day.

(Southwesterly flow between 20 and 40 knots at 10,000, an AIRMET for
turbulence below FL150, 50 mile visibility with a 12,000 foot ceiling.
I kept 4 to 5 nm from the summit, and didn't fight the updraft or
downdraft or slow my airspeed. And there was no turbulence at all for
the whole flight. The first bump and the plan of action was to cut and
run.)

Opinions? I'm more than willing to be much *more* careful and can use
all the info about the region I can get. But I don't think I'll be
sending that CFI any more business: Even if you're dead on right you
don't scold grownups for 10 minutes without *some* consequence; good
grief! How do you live in the Northwest and not cover mountain
flying??

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

[Peter Duniho]

"Robert Perkins" > wrote in message
...
> I found it in the A/FD in the Special Notices section (is there an
> online A/FD anywhere?).

Closest thing I've seen to an online A/FD is the airport and navaid database
at www.airnav.com. They have what appears to me to be the data for each
airport straight from the FAA's A/FD database. But I don't think they have
any of the other A/FD data.

> A couple minutes later I related this thread's story to him, and he
> had a very bad reaction, and gave me a 10 minute verbal spanking for
> having gone in the first place, a real confidence buster. So now I'm
> left wondering if I'm a fool, and how to reconcile scoffing at the
> Special Notice with scolding a former student, and whether things
> could have gone much worse than they did, given my course line that
> day.

I don't understand. Was he lecturing you because of the winds? Certainly
reason to be cautious, but I don't see any reason to avoid the flight
entirely just because of the forecast. You had a backup plan (which is,
regardless of forecast conditions, an important element of ANY flight), and
found the flight conditions to be quite flyable and enjoyable. Seems to me,
that's exactly how it should be.

What the CFI could possibly have found to fill 10 minutes with, I have no
idea.

Pete

[Robert Perkins]

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:50:40 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote:

>What the CFI could possibly have found to fill 10 minutes with, I have no
>idea.

Deep and frequent repetition of how poorly the Cessna 172 climbs in a
downdraft, mostly. Stories about how pilots panic in a downdraft and
stall the airplane. Backup stories from another CFI standing next to
him, who took time to recite the textbook methods for approching the
lee side of a ridge. Retorts for pretty much anything I could think
of; I spent 10 minutes not completing any sentences.

That kind of thing.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card