Advice

[Brad]

About 3 weeks ago, I was awoke by a phone call from my mom letting me know
that my cousin had been killed in a plane crash. Actually, both him and his
girlfriend. For those of you who were at Oshkosh this year, you may have
heard of him and his father, Ray and David Stits. David was killed while
out on a pleasure flight in his Stits Playboy and experienced an engine
failure. According to what we (the family) have heard, he was attempting an
emergency landing on I-15 near Fontana, CA, but was concerned about the
amount of traffic and pulled up stalled and spiralled into the ground.
Killed on impact.

Unbeknownst to him, or his father, they were my mentors/heros. They
were/are the ones I look up to in the aviation world. And they never miss a
chance to ask me about my latest flying 'adventure'. Knowing how much
experience they have, I always got a kick out of this. The last time I saw
him was at my grandfathers 80th b-day(last May) and as soon as I walked in
both him and his dad walked over and were quickly asking me why I had
stopped my flight training.

Anyway, being a PPL/IR, when I heard about his accident I couldn't (still
can't) help but ask, "What if?" What if I had been there? What if I could
have offered some bit of advice that he hadn't considered? What if....? If
my only choices were to pull up and stall into a bunch of trees vs. a
freeway full of cars, I'd choose the trees, but I can't help but think, if I
were only there. Any advice on how to get past this train of thought?

[john smith]

Brad wrote:
> Anyway, being a PPL/IR, when I heard about his accident I couldn't (still
> can't) help but ask, "What if?" What if I had been there? What if I could
> have offered some bit of advice that he hadn't considered? What if....? If
> my only choices were to pull up and stall into a bunch of trees vs. a
> freeway full of cars, I'd choose the trees, but I can't help but think, if I
> were only there. Any advice on how to get past this train of thought?


Flying involves risk. Accept the fact that you are going to lose friends
as your flying career progresses.
I was in the same situation as you, some 20 years ago, asking, "Why?"
Another pilot friend told me what I am going to pass on to you, "When
your number is up, your number is up. Nothing you can do will change it."
Being involved in sport acrobatics, I lose two or three acquaintances
each year do to "accidents". I cannot change what has happened, I just
accept it and remember to learn from their mishap.
You can practice emergency procedures, read everything you can get your
hands on, fly with more experienced pilots, seek out the older
instructors. In short, never stop learning, never get complacent (sic),
don't get so full of yourself that you think you know it all. If you do,
it will bite you in the ass at the first opportunity.
Always err on the safe, conservative side.
If you don't have enough local knowledge and weather information, don't
fly. If something just doesn't seem quite right, taxi back and park the
airplane. Break the chain of events and live to fly another day.

[Don Tuite]

For your peace of mind, assume he *did* pick the best option. Another
day, another plane, and the trees the energy lost to the
disintegration of the aircraft might have saved them.

Don

[Peter Duniho]

"Brad" > wrote in message
...
> About 3 weeks ago, I was awoke by a phone call from my mom letting me know
> that my cousin had been killed in a plane crash. Actually, both him and
his
> girlfriend. For those of you who were at Oshkosh this year, you may have
> heard of him and his father, Ray and David Stits.

Sorry for your loss. I'd hazard a guess that very few people reading your
post have not heard of the crash, never mind don't know who Ray and David
Stits were. Both well-known in the aviation community, and we all feel the
loss.

> Anyway, being a PPL/IR, when I heard about his accident I couldn't (still
> can't) help but ask, "What if?" What if I had been there? What if I
could
> have offered some bit of advice that he hadn't considered? What if....?
If
> my only choices were to pull up and stall into a bunch of trees vs. a
> freeway full of cars, I'd choose the trees, but I can't help but think, if
I
> were only there. Any advice on how to get past this train of thought?

Unfortunately, the issues you're grappling with are really beyond the scope
of this newsgroup. In hindsight, sure there might have been some pilot
error involved. But how in the world would you as a passenger have been
able to change the outcome? It's just not rational to think you could have
made any difference at all.

But grief isn't rational. Sounds like you're dealing with the "guilt" phase
of grief, a very common experience when someone loses someone important.
Your grief makes you feel as though the accident was somehow your
responsibility and of course, the farther from the actual accident you were,
the more far-fetched your hypothesis of how you might be guilty is.

Suffice to say, your guilt is unfounded and yet not surprising at all.
However, what you need isn't so much pilots who are strangers telling you
anything, as much as you need someone who can give you some real
face-to-face talking and sympathizing time. Possibly a trained therapist
could be of use. But mostly you just need to accept that this is part of
your grieving process and that, over time, this train of thought will leave
the station and leave you standing there feeling much better. It may not
happen quickly, but it will happen. Talking with others close to you,
especially those who are also personally affected by the loss, may help.

Good luck...

Pete

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:22:58 GMT, "Brad" > wrote
in Message-Id: >:

>What if I had been there? What if I could
>have offered some bit of advice that he hadn't considered? What if....? If
>my only choices were to pull up and stall into a bunch of trees vs. a
>freeway full of cars, I'd choose the trees, but I can't help but think, if I
>were only there.

Please accept my sincere condolences.

>Any advice on how to get past this train of thought?

All who take to the sky defy the physics of gravity through clever
technology usually assisted by the power provided from the
paleo-remaines of the life that has grown on this planet for hundreds
of millions of years. Each pilot eventually comes the realization
that there times during every flight when his chances of surviving an
power failure are less than optimal (night flight in the desert with a
new moon, over icy water, at 200' AGL on take off, ...). We all
accept the grim prob/possabilities, because to us, the benefits of
operating in the third dimension outweigh the risks.

All who lose someone close, feel responsibility for the loss; it's
just human nature, I suppose. Know in your heart, that they accepted
the risks willingly in exchange for experiencing (and advancing) human
flight as did the first aviation fatality, Otto Lilienthall. On his
deathbed, he uttered, "Sacrifices must be made."

I'm sorry.

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:49:57 GMT, john smith > wrote in
Message-Id: >:

>In short, never stop learning, never get complacent (sic),
>don't get so full of yourself that you think you know it all. If you do,
>it will bite you in the ass at the first opportunity.
>Always err on the safe, conservative side.

The true Axis Of Evil in America is our genious at marketing
coupled with the stupidity of our people. -- Bill Maher

[Brad]

Thanks guys.

[T-Boy]

In article >, puppet78
@hotmail.com says...
> About 3 weeks ago, I was awoke by a phone call from my mom letting me know
> that my cousin had been killed in a plane crash. Actually, both him and his
> girlfriend. For those of you who were at Oshkosh this year, you may have
> heard of him and his father, Ray and David Stits. David was killed while
> out on a pleasure flight in his Stits Playboy and experienced an engine
> failure. According to what we (the family) have heard, he was attempting an
> emergency landing on I-15 near Fontana, CA, but was concerned about the
> amount of traffic and pulled up stalled and spiralled into the ground.
> Killed on impact.
>
> Unbeknownst to him, or his father, they were my mentors/heros. They
> were/are the ones I look up to in the aviation world. And they never miss a
> chance to ask me about my latest flying 'adventure'. Knowing how much
> experience they have, I always got a kick out of this. The last time I saw
> him was at my grandfathers 80th b-day(last May) and as soon as I walked in
> both him and his dad walked over and were quickly asking me why I had
> stopped my flight training.
>
> Anyway, being a PPL/IR, when I heard about his accident I couldn't (still
> can't) help but ask, "What if?" What if I had been there? What if I could
> have offered some bit of advice that he hadn't considered? What if....? If
> my only choices were to pull up and stall into a bunch of trees vs. a
> freeway full of cars, I'd choose the trees, but I can't help but think, if I
> were only there. Any advice on how to get past this train of thought?

As a PPL holder you'll know rule #1

FLY THE PLANE

--
Duncan

[BTIZ]

Brad... to follow up on the advice.. about numbers being up... exactly..
when your number is called.. nothing you can do will change it.. just train
and be the best proficient pilot you can be..

I flew low and fast for 20yrs in the military.. B-1B, I've lost some
friends.. and made several friends..

some examples of "numbers called up"
1) a tail boomer (tanker refueling operator) scheduled for an "air show
practice ride", had a nose cold and goes DNIF (duties not to include
flying).. a second operator takes his flight. First Boomer goes home..
aircraft crashes and engine from aircraft breaks loose and takes out his car
as he drives home. His number was called.
2) A B-52 navigator going to work, forgets something at home and turns
around to go back. He saw the car of Boomer #1 above coming towards him
before he turned around. He watched the result of the accident in his rear
view mirror. If he had not turned around.. he would have been hit by the
aircraft debris also.. his number was not called.

There are a few more instances.. but I always made it home. And I wonder
sometimes.. why my friends did not.

I've retired now.. and still fly for personal enjoyment..
BTIZ

"Brad" > wrote in message
...
> About 3 weeks ago, I was awoke by a phone call from my mom letting me know
> that my cousin had been killed in a plane crash. Actually, both him and
his
> girlfriend. For those of you who were at Oshkosh this year, you may have
> heard of him and his father, Ray and David Stits. David was killed while
> out on a pleasure flight in his Stits Playboy and experienced an engine
> failure. According to what we (the family) have heard, he was attempting
an
> emergency landing on I-15 near Fontana, CA, but was concerned about the
> amount of traffic and pulled up stalled and spiralled into the ground.
> Killed on impact.
>
> Unbeknownst to him, or his father, they were my mentors/heros. They
> were/are the ones I look up to in the aviation world. And they never miss
a
> chance to ask me about my latest flying 'adventure'. Knowing how much
> experience they have, I always got a kick out of this. The last time I
saw
> him was at my grandfathers 80th b-day(last May) and as soon as I walked
in
> both him and his dad walked over and were quickly asking me why I had
> stopped my flight training.
>
> Anyway, being a PPL/IR, when I heard about his accident I couldn't (still
> can't) help but ask, "What if?" What if I had been there? What if I
could
> have offered some bit of advice that he hadn't considered? What if....?
If
> my only choices were to pull up and stall into a bunch of trees vs. a
> freeway full of cars, I'd choose the trees, but I can't help but think, if
I
> were only there. Any advice on how to get past this train of thought?
>
>

[Tom Fleischman]

This what the wonderful book by Ernest K. Gann, "Fate Is The Hunter",
is all about. If you are a pilot and haven't read it, you should.

Please accept my heartfelt condolences.

Tom


In article <H1Zmb.92375$La.70135@fed1read02>, BTIZ
> wrote:

> Brad... to follow up on the advice.. about numbers being up... exactly..
> when your number is called.. nothing you can do will change it.. just train
> and be the best proficient pilot you can be..
>
> I flew low and fast for 20yrs in the military.. B-1B, I've lost some
> friends.. and made several friends..
>
> some examples of "numbers called up"
> 1) a tail boomer (tanker refueling operator) scheduled for an "air show
> practice ride", had a nose cold and goes DNIF (duties not to include
> flying).. a second operator takes his flight. First Boomer goes home..
> aircraft crashes and engine from aircraft breaks loose and takes out his car
> as he drives home. His number was called.
> 2) A B-52 navigator going to work, forgets something at home and turns
> around to go back. He saw the car of Boomer #1 above coming towards him
> before he turned around. He watched the result of the accident in his rear
> view mirror. If he had not turned around.. he would have been hit by the
> aircraft debris also.. his number was not called.
>
> There are a few more instances.. but I always made it home. And I wonder
> sometimes.. why my friends did not.
>
> I've retired now.. and still fly for personal enjoyment..
> BTIZ
>
> "Brad" > wrote in message
> ...
> > About 3 weeks ago, I was awoke by a phone call from my mom letting me know
> > that my cousin had been killed in a plane crash. Actually, both him and
> his
> > girlfriend. For those of you who were at Oshkosh this year, you may have
> > heard of him and his father, Ray and David Stits. David was killed while
> > out on a pleasure flight in his Stits Playboy and experienced an engine
> > failure. According to what we (the family) have heard, he was attempting
> an
> > emergency landing on I-15 near Fontana, CA, but was concerned about the
> > amount of traffic and pulled up stalled and spiralled into the ground.
> > Killed on impact.
> >
> > Unbeknownst to him, or his father, they were my mentors/heros. They
> > were/are the ones I look up to in the aviation world. And they never miss
> a
> > chance to ask me about my latest flying 'adventure'. Knowing how much
> > experience they have, I always got a kick out of this. The last time I
> saw
> > him was at my grandfathers 80th b-day(last May) and as soon as I walked
> in
> > both him and his dad walked over and were quickly asking me why I had
> > stopped my flight training.
> >
> > Anyway, being a PPL/IR, when I heard about his accident I couldn't (still
> > can't) help but ask, "What if?" What if I had been there? What if I
> could
> > have offered some bit of advice that he hadn't considered? What if....?
> If
> > my only choices were to pull up and stall into a bunch of trees vs. a
> > freeway full of cars, I'd choose the trees, but I can't help but think, if
> I
> > were only there. Any advice on how to get past this train of thought?
> >
> >
>
>