Has anyone put water in their pneumatic tailwheel?

[gemerson]

It's fairly standard for tractors to have their tires filled with
water. Curious if anyone has put water in their pneumatic tailwheel
to provide a little more aft CG. Brass tailwheels exist, but they are
pricey.

[Herbert kilian]

On Feb 4, 3:49*am, gemerson > wrote:
> It's fairly standard for tractors to have their tires filled with
> water. *Curious if anyone has put water in their pneumatic tailwheel
> to provide a little more aft CG. *Brass tailwheels exist, but they are
> pricey.

Sounds like a really bad idea. The volume is so small that even
filling the inner tube completely will likely only give a liter of
water or so (2.2 lbs). If you do fill the inner tube to more than
50%, the damping qualities of the wheel will rapidly deteriotate since
water is incompressible (but then, so is brass).
Don't do it, look for a way to safely attach lead plates to the
bulkhead in front of the rudder or by other means.

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Feb 4, 6:19*am, Herbert kilian > wrote:
> On Feb 4, 3:49*am, gemerson > wrote:
>
> > It's fairly standard for tractors to have their tires filled with
> > water. *Curious if anyone has put water in their pneumatic tailwheel
> > to provide a little more aft CG. *Brass tailwheels exist, but they are
> > pricey.
>
> Sounds like a really bad idea. *The volume is so small that even
> filling the inner tube completely will likely only give a liter of
> water or so (2.2 lbs). *If you do fill the inner tube to more than
> 50%, the damping qualities of the wheel will rapidly deteriotate since
> water is incompressible (but then, so is brass).
> Don't do it, look for a way to safely attach lead plates to the
> bulkhead in front of the rudder or by other means.

2.2 lbs may not sound like much, but on my Ventus adding 2.2 lbs of
water to the tail tank will move the CG aft 9%! If that is enough,
why not try it? If the valve doesn't rust, and you have a way to
evacuate the tube (first of air, then later of water if you reverse
your decision), then it seems like a painless way to experiment with
trimming the CG.

BTW, I ran the numbers on this in about 20 seconds using "SeeG", a
weight and balance program I created (shameless plug) just for this
type of "what if" question. see http://www.glideplan.com

Matt

[bish]

On 4 fév, 14:06, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
> On Feb 4, 6:19*am, Herbert kilian > wrote:
>
> > On Feb 4, 3:49*am, gemerson > wrote:
>
> > > It's fairly standard for tractors to have their tires filled with
> > > water. *Curious if anyone has put water in their pneumatic tailwheel
> > > to provide a little more aft CG. *Brass tailwheels exist, but they are
> > > pricey.
>
> > Sounds like a really bad idea. *The volume is so small that even
> > filling the inner tube completely will likely only give a liter of
> > water or so (2.2 lbs). *If you do fill the inner tube to more than
> > 50%, the damping qualities of the wheel will rapidly deteriotate since
> > water is incompressible (but then, so is brass).
> > Don't do it, look for a way to safely attach lead plates to the
> > bulkhead in front of the rudder or by other means.
>
> 2.2 lbs may not sound like much, but on my Ventus adding 2.2 lbs of
> water to the tail tank will move the CG aft 9%! *If that is enough,
> why not try it? *If the valve doesn't rust, and you have a way to
> evacuate the tube (first of air, then later of water if you reverse
> your decision), then it seems like a painless way to experiment with
> trimming the CG.
>
> BTW, I ran the numbers on this in about 20 seconds using "SeeG", a
> weight and balance program I created (shameless plug) just for this
> type of "what if" question. seehttp://www.glideplan.com
>
> Matt

Hi
In freezing condition like Canada we put calcium in tractor tires
S6

[GM]

>*If you do fill the inner tube to more than
> 50%, the damping qualities of the wheel will rapidly deteriotate since
> water is incompressible (but then, so is brass).

As far as I know, a 'Brass Wheel' refers to the hub, which is
typically made from cast aluminum or Nylon plastic, being made from
solid Brass. There is still a pneumatic wheel on this hub.
I also doubt that one can get the inner tube filled 100% with water
given the way the valve stem is positioned.
Since we are on this subject: has anyone ever tried to foam-fill the
tail wheel? Some wheels of industrial equipment gets foam-filled to
make them puncture-proof.
Uli Neumann

[Bruce Barnard[_2_]]

I filled mine with windshield wiper fluid to avoid freezing and it
worked very well. To fill I made a connection hose from a broken 12V
air pump and garden hose female connector so I could use the tap water
pressure to push in the WW fluid. That gets it 99% fluid and then use
a regular air pump to get the pressure up. Used it for two years w/o
issue, combined with a brass tailwheel. The WW fluid netted 0.869Kg
and moved the CG 6.9%. This was in a 65x210 wheel.

[PK]

On Feb 4, 7:06*pm, GM > wrote:
> >*If you do fill the inner tube to more than
> > 50%, the damping qualities of the wheel will rapidly deteriotate since
> > water is incompressible (but then, so is brass).
>
> As far as I know, a 'Brass Wheel' refers to the hub, which is
> typically made from cast aluminum or Nylon plastic, being made from
> solid Brass. There is still a pneumatic wheel on this hub.
> I also doubt that one can get the inner tube filled 100% with water
> given the way the valve stem is positioned.
> Since we are on this subject: has anyone ever tried to foam-fill the
> tail wheel? Some wheels of industrial equipment gets foam-filled to
> make them puncture-proof.
> Uli Neumann

I filled mine with foam. It took care of a couple of problems. First
my tire constantly leaked and I wanted a couple of pounds of weight in
the rear. Took it to a truck tire shop, they filled it for a few
bucks. This was about five years ago. Works like a charm. PeterK

[Lars Peder Hansen]

Getting tired of punctures and leaks, I switched to a "solid" tail wheel (my
guess is that it is filled with some rather dense foam)
This added 260g of weight, and needless to say, no punktures since then..
I'd recommend it anytime.

Lars Peder
DG-600, Denmark


"GM" > wrote in message
...
> If you do fill the inner tube to more than
> 50%, the damping qualities of the wheel will rapidly deteriotate since
> water is incompressible (but then, so is brass).

As far as I know, a 'Brass Wheel' refers to the hub, which is
typically made from cast aluminum or Nylon plastic, being made from
solid Brass. There is still a pneumatic wheel on this hub.
I also doubt that one can get the inner tube filled 100% with water
given the way the valve stem is positioned.
Since we are on this subject: has anyone ever tried to foam-fill the
tail wheel? Some wheels of industrial equipment gets foam-filled to
make them puncture-proof.
Uli Neumann

[Dan Marotta]

Why not also take your main tire to the truck tire shop and have it
foam-filled? The weight difference would seem insignificant. Is it cost
prohibitive?


"Lars Peder Hansen" > wrote in message
k...
> Getting tired of punctures and leaks, I switched to a "solid" tail wheel
> (my guess is that it is filled with some rather dense foam)
> This added 260g of weight, and needless to say, no punktures since then..
> I'd recommend it anytime.
>
> Lars Peder
> DG-600, Denmark
>
>
> "GM" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If you do fill the inner tube to more than
>> 50%, the damping qualities of the wheel will rapidly deteriotate since
>> water is incompressible (but then, so is brass).
>
> As far as I know, a 'Brass Wheel' refers to the hub, which is
> typically made from cast aluminum or Nylon plastic, being made from
> solid Brass. There is still a pneumatic wheel on this hub.
> I also doubt that one can get the inner tube filled 100% with water
> given the way the valve stem is positioned.
> Since we are on this subject: has anyone ever tried to foam-fill the
> tail wheel? Some wheels of industrial equipment gets foam-filled to
> make them puncture-proof.
> Uli Neumann
>

[PK]

On Feb 7, 8:49*am, "Dan Marotta" > wrote:
> Why not also take your main tire to the truck tire shop and have it
> foam-filled? *The weight difference would seem insignificant. *Is it cost
> prohibitive?
>
> "Lars Peder Hansen" > wrote in .tele.dk...
>
>
>
> > Getting tired of punctures and leaks, I switched to a "solid" tail wheel
> > (my guess is that it is filled with some rather dense foam)
> > This added 260g of weight, and needless to say, no punktures since then...
> > I'd recommend it anytime.
>
> > Lars Peder
> > DG-600, Denmark
>
> > "GM" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> If you do fill the inner tube to more than
> >> 50%, the damping qualities of the wheel will rapidly deteriotate since
> >> water is incompressible (but then, so is brass).
>
> > As far as I know, a 'Brass Wheel' refers to the hub, which is
> > typically made from cast aluminum or Nylon plastic, being made from
> > solid Brass. There is still a pneumatic wheel on this hub.
> > I also doubt that one can get the inner tube filled 100% with water
> > given the way the valve stem is positioned.
> > Since we are on this subject: has anyone ever tried to foam-fill the
> > tail wheel? Some wheels of industrial equipment gets foam-filled to
> > make them puncture-proof.
> > Uli Neumann- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Interesting but I think it just might add too much weight? PeterK

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 2/7/2012 8:49 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Why not also take your main tire to the truck tire shop and have it
> foam-filled? The weight difference would seem insignificant. Is it cost
> prohibitive?

What would be your goal for doing that? Have you had a lot of flats?

A few years ago, I switched from the typical 500 x 5 tire to a Goodyear
Flight Custom III Kevlar belted tire for my ASH 26 E motorglider. It and
it's tube are at least twice the price of similar tires, but it's much
better for my application:

* It doesn't lose air during the season, while the others needed air at
least once month
* It's lasted over twice as long, and going on three times as long. With
the taxiing I do in the glider, the other tires were worn out in 2 1/2
years.

It may not be as good a value for unpowered gliders that are pushed
around level and empty, instead of taxied, wing down, at full flying weight.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Dan Marotta]

Just curious. I have *free* air (actually 79% nitrogen!) in my tires. I
seem to need to add air a couple of times a year, but that's not too much of
a hassle.


"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/7/2012 8:49 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Why not also take your main tire to the truck tire shop and have it
>> foam-filled? The weight difference would seem insignificant. Is it cost
>> prohibitive?
>
> What would be your goal for doing that? Have you had a lot of flats?
>
> A few years ago, I switched from the typical 500 x 5 tire to a Goodyear
> Flight Custom III Kevlar belted tire for my ASH 26 E motorglider. It and
> it's tube are at least twice the price of similar tires, but it's much
> better for my application:
>
> * It doesn't lose air during the season, while the others needed air at
> least once month
> * It's lasted over twice as long, and going on three times as long. With
> the taxiing I do in the glider, the other tires were worn out in 2 1/2
> years.
>
> It may not be as good a value for unpowered gliders that are pushed around
> level and empty, instead of taxied, wing down, at full flying weight.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email
> me)

[Scott[_9_]]

On Feb 8, 10:21*am, "Dan Marotta" > wrote:
> Just curious. *I have *free* air (actually 79% nitrogen!) in my tires. *I
> seem to need to add air a couple of times a year, but that's not too much of
> a hassle.
>
> "Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On 2/7/2012 8:49 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >> Why not also take your main tire to the truck tire shop and have it
> >> foam-filled? The weight difference would seem insignificant. Is it cost
> >> prohibitive?
>
> > What would be your goal for doing that? Have you had a lot of flats?
>
> > A few years ago, I switched from the typical 500 x 5 tire to a Goodyear
> > Flight Custom III Kevlar belted tire for my ASH 26 E motorglider. It and
> > it's tube are at least twice the price of similar tires, but it's much
> > better for my application:
>
> > * It doesn't lose air during the season, while the others needed air at
> > least once month
> > * It's lasted over twice as long, and going on three times as long. With
> > the taxiing I do in the glider, the other tires were worn out in 2 1/2
> > years.
>
> > It may not be as good a value for unpowered gliders that are pushed around
> > level and empty, instead of taxied, wing down, at full flying weight.
>
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email
> > me)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Test

[PK]

On Feb 8, 8:21*am, "Dan Marotta" > wrote:
> Just curious. *I have *free* air (actually 79% nitrogen!) in my tires. *I
> seem to need to add air a couple of times a year, but that's not too much of
> a hassle.
>
> "Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On 2/7/2012 8:49 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >> Why not also take your main tire to the truck tire shop and have it
> >> foam-filled? The weight difference would seem insignificant. Is it cost
> >> prohibitive?
>
> > What would be your goal for doing that? Have you had a lot of flats?
>
> > A few years ago, I switched from the typical 500 x 5 tire to a Goodyear
> > Flight Custom III Kevlar belted tire for my ASH 26 E motorglider. It and
> > it's tube are at least twice the price of similar tires, but it's much
> > better for my application:
>
> > * It doesn't lose air during the season, while the others needed air at
> > least once month
> > * It's lasted over twice as long, and going on three times as long. With
> > the taxiing I do in the glider, the other tires were worn out in 2 1/2
> > years.
>
> > It may not be as good a value for unpowered gliders that are pushed around
> > level and empty, instead of taxied, wing down, at full flying weight.
>
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email
> > me)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I too have a slow leak due to osmoses? This sounds like a good remedy
but how do you store small quantities and transfer to your tire?
Thanks. PeterK