IFR training, figure B

[Hannibal]

Hi guys
I am looking for a diagram used in Europe an in other parts of the
world(altough is not very used in the US) that is used to teach
aircraft control during the initial phases of IFR training. Basically
the idea of this is to fly the airplane with different heading,
altitudes and speeds as well as doing configuration changes(gear up,
down, etc). The exercise I am looking is called "B figure"(or
something similar, I know it for its spanish name) for the apparent
track of the airplane.
Does anybody know where I can find it?
Thank you

Anibal

[Robert Moore]

(Hannibal) wrote
> I am looking for a diagram used in Europe an in other parts of
> the world(altough is not very used in the US)

Yes, it is a shame that our (US) instructors place almost all of
the emphasis on Radio Navigation rather than Basic Instrument Work.


> The exercise I am looking is called "B figure"

The "A" pattern and "B" pattern are lessons 15 and 16 in the FAA's
Instrument Flying Handbook. Used to be AC 61-27C, don't know if
the designation has been changed or not.

Bob Moore
ATP CFII

[Casey Wilson]

"Robert Moore" > wrote in message
. 6...
> (Hannibal) wrote
> > I am looking for a diagram used in Europe an in other parts of
> > the world(altough is not very used in the US)
>
> Yes, it is a shame that our (US) instructors place almost all of
> the emphasis on Radio Navigation rather than Basic Instrument Work.
>
>
> > The exercise I am looking is called "B figure"
>
> The "A" pattern and "B" pattern are lessons 15 and 16 in the FAA's
> Instrument Flying Handbook. Used to be AC 61-27C, don't know if
> the designation has been changed or not.

The patterns have been dropped it out of the new edition altogether. The
new edition is FAA-H-8083-15, titled Instrument Flying Handbook. Look for
an older one or perhaps beg a scanned/fax copy from someone. My CFII gave
me copies of each but they aren't in my flight bag. Dunno what happened to
them.

[Mark Kolber]

On 28 Oct 2003 11:21:42 -0800, (Hannibal)
wrote:

>Does anybody know where I can find it?

I sent you copies of Pattern A and Pattern B by email. Let me know if
they are the ones you are looking for.

Mark Kolber
APA/Denver, Colorado
www.midlifeflight.com
======================
email? Remove ".no.spam"

[Rick Durden]

Anibal,

In the years of instructing instrument students I never used the
patterns in the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook (which had A and B).
Because of airspace, practice area or wind limitations I always drew
my own patterns for students with changes at one minute intervals.
Perhaps if I were in the western U.S. with a huge amount of airspace
available, I could have used "generic" patterns. Because of that, I
have always sat down with the student prior to a flight and created
one or two patterns that took about 10 minutes each and were designed
to allow us to stay in a general location and not drift downwind into
airspace where we didn't want to be. At first, just changing
airspeeds and making standard rate turns with some 500 fpm climbs and
descents are challenging enough, then you can add aircraft
configuration changes if you desire, to make it tougher. The idea,
however, is to get used to configuring the airplane for an instrument
approach from cruise operation while making turns and descents so that
you get to know what power setting will generate, for example, 100
KIAS with approach flaps in level flight and in a 500 fpm descent and
what power setting is needed once the gear is extended and you desire
to level off at the MDA.

Don't wear yourself out looking for the published pattern (after all,
it was just somebody's idea of a practice exercise many, many years
ago), work with your instructor and tailor patterns to what you need
to work on.

All the best,
Rick

(Hannibal) wrote in message >...
> Hi guys
> I am looking for a diagram used in Europe an in other parts of the
> world(altough is not very used in the US) that is used to teach
> aircraft control during the initial phases of IFR training. Basically
> the idea of this is to fly the airplane with different heading,
> altitudes and speeds as well as doing configuration changes(gear up,
> down, etc). The exercise I am looking is called "B figure"(or
> something similar, I know it for its spanish name) for the apparent
> track of the airplane.
> Does anybody know where I can find it?
> Thank you
>
> Anibal

[Rick Bruns]

I think you'll find what you're looking for here ...

pages 265 and 266 of the 'old' AC 61-27c

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/6044a5c61fa9349585256a35006d56b2/f98ed9b5360eccdd862569dc00720c3f/$FILE/Appendix_Index.pdf

Good luck!


"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message >...
> "Robert Moore" > wrote in message
> . 6...
> > (Hannibal) wrote
> > > I am looking for a diagram used in Europe an in other parts of
> > > the world(altough is not very used in the US)
> >
> > Yes, it is a shame that our (US) instructors place almost all of
> > the emphasis on Radio Navigation rather than Basic Instrument Work.
> >
> >
> > > The exercise I am looking is called "B figure"
> >
> > The "A" pattern and "B" pattern are lessons 15 and 16 in the FAA's
> > Instrument Flying Handbook. Used to be AC 61-27C, don't know if
> > the designation has been changed or not.
>
> The patterns have been dropped it out of the new edition altogether. The
> new edition is FAA-H-8083-15, titled Instrument Flying Handbook. Look for
> an older one or perhaps beg a scanned/fax copy from someone. My CFII gave
> me copies of each but they aren't in my flight bag. Dunno what happened to
> them.

[Rick Durden]

Bob,


> Yes, it is a shame that our (US) instructors place almost all of
> the emphasis on Radio Navigation rather than Basic Instrument Work.
>

Do you have any reference with data that supports your assertion?

I've not run across too many instrument instructors that do not
heavily emphasize instrument work before even having the student track
a VOR radial. I've looked at a number of syllabi and they seem to
push instrument work early in the program with the student required to
demonstrate mastery prior to moving on. I don't claim to have looked
at all of the teaching programs, but I haven't seen an indication that
a large number of instrument rated pilots are losing control of
airplanes in instrument conditions due to a lack of basic skills.

All the best,
Rick

[Robert Moore]

(Rick Durden) wrote
> Do you have any reference with data that supports your
> assertion?

My own personel observation at the airport where I taught for
six years.

> I haven't seen an indication that a large number of instrument
> rated pilots are losing control of airplanes in instrument
> conditions due to a lack of basic skills.

Reading the daily FAA accident/incident reports indicates
otherwise.

Bob

[Big John]

Bob

I basically agree with you. All should read the NTSB reports. Weak
and/or non proficient pilots in IFR conditions can get overloaded very
easy and then any of a multitude of types of accidents get them.

Single pilot IFR requires good proficiency, constant practice and
current training. An hour IFR every three months just won't hack it.

Big John

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:31:44 GMT, Robert Moore
> wrote:

(Rick Durden) wrote
>> Do you have any reference with data that supports your
>> assertion?
>
>My own personel observation at the airport where I taught for
>six years.
>
>> I haven't seen an indication that a large number of instrument
>> rated pilots are losing control of airplanes in instrument
>> conditions due to a lack of basic skills.
>
>Reading the daily FAA accident/incident reports indicates
>otherwise.
>
>Bob

[Hannibal]

Hi guys
Thank you for all your answers. You were all very helpful. I wanted to
practice those patterns because I heard an airline here in Argentina
was using them for its sim checkride so I wanted to familiarize myself
with them.
I think these figures or any combination a CFII will put together can
be quite helpful during instrument training specially if they are used
as transition bewteen basic attitude flying and instrument approaches.
And they can also be very helpful to maintain proficiency.
Yesterday I spent a couple of hours in the sim doing many different
figures and I thought it helped me improve my scan. Specially after I
tried them a second time with no attitude indicator. I had to work
real hard but it was also very rewarding.
You see, I have about 1500 hs total time but in a recent flight, a
checkride for an argentine license, I had no trouble detecting a
malfunctioning VOR, negotiating with ATC to do an instrument approach
at an internacional airport, inserting my C150 among the flow of B
767s and Airbuses and tracking the ILS altough I had never flown that
approach before(in the sim or in the plane). Neither did I have any
problems entering holds or approaching VORs from diferent radials.
However all through the flight I strugled to maintain my altitude with
100 ft of my asigned one. Or my heading within 10 degrees.
The reazons for this is, I think, that I already know way to do
instrument approaches. I can brush them up and I do so on a regular
basis and that's enough to remember how to read a chart or what kind
of entry metod to use to enter a hold. However the only way to fly the
aircraft proficently is to fly often. For the last two years I have
been flying about once a month and that's hardly enough to be safe.
I think in the future I will spend at least part of each simulator
shift just working on basics because they are more easily lost.
I think it's also fun to try them. I mean, flying an ILS approach can
be challenging enough with a good croswind or with weather close the
minimuns, but when was the last time you tried to do a 360o turn with
45o of bank, followed by a climb at 400 ft/min. When was the last time
you did a 180o turn with a standard rate of turn but doubling your
airspeed halfway? It's harder than it sounds believe me, I know.

Take care