Perfect electro-magnetic storm

[Roger Long]

Last weeks solar flare was a non-event except for "a few aircraft navigation
systems" as NPR put it. The one that erupted this morning and will reach
earth Wednesday or Thursday is believed by astronomers to be possibly the
largest since the invention of the integrated circuit.

Time to dig out the sectionals and that cute little plotter AOPA sends you
every year in your membership packet.
--
Roger Long

[Neal]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:09:40 GMT, "Roger Long"
m> wrote:

>
>Time to dig out the sectionals and that cute little plotter AOPA sends you
>every year in your membership packet.

You got a plotter? I didn't get nuthin' but the new card and some
paperwork :-(
Wah!

[EDR]

In article >, Roger Long
m> wrote:

> Last weeks solar flare was a non-event except for "a few aircraft navigation
> systems" as NPR put it. The one that erupted this morning and will reach
> earth Wednesday or Thursday is believed by astronomers to be possibly the
> largest since the invention of the integrated circuit.

Oh Great!!!
Tomorrow afternoon I am flying to Philadelphia for the AOPA Convention.
IFR, radios go TU, just what I need!

[Roger Halstead]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:09:40 GMT, "Roger Long"
m> wrote:

>Last weeks solar flare was a non-event except for "a few aircraft navigation
>systems" as NPR put it. The one that erupted this morning and will reach
>earth Wednesday or Thursday is believed by astronomers to be possibly the
>largest since the invention of the integrated circuit.
>
>Time to dig out the sectionals and that cute little plotter AOPA sends you
>every year in your membership packet.

It'll be interesting to see how the different forms of navigation hold
up.

I understand when the X-Rays hit they had the astronauts move into the
most shielded areas of the ISS.

It was a full coronal mass ejection directed straight at earth
traveling at several thousand KM per second. They figure about 19
hours to get here. It should hit some time around 1500Z, or early to
mid morning here in the east.

It won't give us a visible aurora during the day but it may still be
active tomorrow night. They expect aurora as far south as California
and Florida. Just remember what a big geomagnetic storm did to Quebec
a while back. Dumped a major portion of their power grid and here we
are still recovering from Ohio's mistake. <:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[EDR]

In article >, Roger Halstead
> wrote:

> Dumped a major portion of their power grid and here we
> are still recovering from Ohio's mistake.

Don't be such a generalist, it was CLEVELAND, "The Mistake on the Lake".

As we sing in Ohio Stadium,
"We don't give a damn for the whole State of Michigan... the whole
State of Michigan... the whole State of Michigan... we don't give a
damn for the whole State of Michigan, we're from OHIO!"
:-)))

[C J Campbell]

"Roger Long" m> wrote in
message ...
| Last weeks solar flare was a non-event except for "a few aircraft
navigation
| systems" as NPR put it. The one that erupted this morning and will reach
| earth Wednesday or Thursday is believed by astronomers to be possibly the
| largest since the invention of the integrated circuit.
|

Well, that flare is due here today. The news media are hysterical, talking
about the enormous danger to aircraft navigation systems. NPR has gone
absolutely ballistic. The general public should be whipped into a frenzy,
fearing that it will start raining airplanes any second.

Of course, the 'fair and balanced media' (and I do not mean just FOX, here),
will report tomorrow that nothing serious happened. Right? I mean, they do
admit when they are wrong, don't they?

[Montblack]

Homie, Homie, Homie.

Life becomes bliss when you break the info-tainment habit. <g>

My sister's ex is a (_____) fill in the blank. I, however, never get upset
when I'm around him. I expect this from him and he seldom disappoints. Zero
energy is expended, on my part, hoping he will become something that he
isn't. My idiotic sister still gets in arguments with him. For me it's Hi
Dave, how you doing?

--
Montblack
"Styled by the laws of nature.............Concorde"

("C J Campbell" wrote)
<snip>
> Of course, the 'fair and balanced media' (and I do not mean just FOX,
here),
> will report tomorrow that nothing serious happened. Right? I mean, they do
> admit when they are wrong, don't they?

[Roger Long]

Actually, NPR was very balanced. The flare is the largest in decades but
they pointed out that the effects are difficult to predict. There is a lot
of unevenness in the cloud and other unpredictable effects. The stuff that
could really disrupt things might well miss us.
--
Roger Long

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:02:08 -0600, "Montblack"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

While the usual inanity contained in articles posted by Montblack are
easily dismissed, this caught my eye:

>"Styled by the laws of nature.............Concorde"


It seems that the next generation of supersonic airliners may be
permitted to fly over the US (to the west coast where I reside):



http://www.discoverychannel.co.uk/newscientist/week04/article01.shtml
The shape of jets to come

AS TICKETS for Concorde's final flight go on sale this week, an
American aerospace company has demonstrated a way to modify a
supersonic jet to dramatically reduce its sonic boom. The work
could pave the way for a new generation of business jets quiet
enough to fly at supersonic speed over populated areas.

Sonic booms are one of the biggest drawbacks of supersonic flight.
They are the sharp thunderclaps caused by shock waves created at
the nose and tail of an aircraft meeting as they travel to the
ground. Where the shock waves overlap they reinforce each other,
creating the boom. Concorde's boom is so loud that it is forbidden
from flying at supersonic speeds over land.

In the 1970s, Richard Seebass and Albert George at Cornell
University in New York came up with a straightforward way to
counter the problem. They reasoned that a shock wave would be
weaker if it were spread out over a larger area. This could be
achieved by replacing a plane's sharp nose with a blunter shape
and redesigning parts of the wings, for example where the base of
the wing meets the fuselage, so that the angles between surfaces
do not change so sharply. The idea was to allow the shock waves to
form over larger areas of the aircraft's surface. Years of
computer modelling and wind tunnel tests have validated the
concept, but it had never been tried in flight.

Now the American aerospace company Northrop Grumman ...



http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993616
...
New chapter

A supersonic successor will be very different in design, Jackson
told New Scientist: "There will be such an interval before any
supersonic transport gets going again, that we'll start on a
separate chapter of air travel."

Bill Gunston, editor of Jane's Aero Engines and author of the book
Faster Than Sound, believes dramatic improvements in aerodynamics
over the last 30 years would now make it possible to build a much
far more efficient supersonic craft than Concorde. He says the
airplane's lift-to-drag ratio means it requires very powerful
engines and huge amounts of fuel.

"Any capable design outfit could design something vastly superior
to Concorde," Junston told New Scientist.
...


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030929/12/e9q0q.html
Monday September 29, 04:00 PM

Curvy aircraft could silence sonic booms
By David L. Chandler

As tickets for Concorde's final flight go on sale this week, an
American aerospace company has demonstrated a way to modify a
supersonic jet to dramatically reduce its sonic boom.

The work could pave the way for a new generation of business jets
quiet enough to fly at supersonic speed over populated areas.

Sonic booms are one of the biggest drawbacks of supersonic flight.
They are the thunderclaps caused when shock waves created at the
nose and tail of an aircraft meet as they travel to the ground.
Where the shock waves overlap they reinforce each other, creating
the boom. Concorde's boom is so loud that the plane is forbidden
from flying at supersonic speeds over land.

In the 1970s, Richard Seebass and Albert George at Cornell
University in Ithaca, New York, came up with a straightforward way
to counter the problem. They reasoned that a shock wave would be
weaker if it were spread out over a larger area.

This could be achieved by replacing a plane's sharp nose with a
blunter shape and redesigning parts of the wings, for example
where the base of the wing meets the fuselage, so that the angles
between surfaces do not change so abruptly.

The idea was to force the shock waves to fan out more rapidly as
they move away from these curves, spreading out their energy.
Years of computer modelling and wind tunnel tests have validated
the concept, but it had never been tried in flight.

Now the American aerospace company Northrop Grumman has ...

[Montblack]

A. You forgot the :-) .....<g>
See what I did there Larry,? I grinned the smiley.

B. I stole that sig line from somebody's post - Dave, in the Three Concordes
thread.

C. I'm going to have a beer - before noon, to celebrate being called inane
by LD. <Inane Alert> That pre-noon beer will sure take me back to my brewery
days. Ahhh, good times.

D. Dismissed!! Oh well. At least you didn't *plonk* me - did you? Larry?
Hello....

--
Montblack
"Just the usual inanity "


"Larry Dighera"
> While the usual inanity contained in articles posted by Montblack are
> easily dismissed, this caught my eye:
>
> >"Styled by the laws of nature.............Concorde"

[Big John]

Larry

A current program using a F-5 has demonstrated modeling of airframe
that will reduce sonic booms.

This has been published a number of places.

Big John



On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:20:30 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:02:08 -0600, "Montblack"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:
>
>While the usual inanity contained in articles posted by Montblack are
>easily dismissed, this caught my eye:
>
>>"Styled by the laws of nature.............Concorde"
>
>
>It seems that the next generation of supersonic airliners may be
>permitted to fly over the US (to the west coast where I reside):
>
>
>
>http://www.discoverychannel.co.uk/newscientist/week04/article01.shtml
> The shape of jets to come
>
> AS TICKETS for Concorde's final flight go on sale this week, an
> American aerospace company has demonstrated a way to modify a
> supersonic jet to dramatically reduce its sonic boom. The work
> could pave the way for a new generation of business jets quiet
> enough to fly at supersonic speed over populated areas.
>
> Sonic booms are one of the biggest drawbacks of supersonic flight.
> They are the sharp thunderclaps caused by shock waves created at
> the nose and tail of an aircraft meeting as they travel to the
> ground. Where the shock waves overlap they reinforce each other,
> creating the boom. Concorde's boom is so loud that it is forbidden
> from flying at supersonic speeds over land.
>
> In the 1970s, Richard Seebass and Albert George at Cornell
> University in New York came up with a straightforward way to
> counter the problem. They reasoned that a shock wave would be
> weaker if it were spread out over a larger area. This could be
> achieved by replacing a plane's sharp nose with a blunter shape
> and redesigning parts of the wings, for example where the base of
> the wing meets the fuselage, so that the angles between surfaces
> do not change so sharply. The idea was to allow the shock waves to
> form over larger areas of the aircraft's surface. Years of
> computer modelling and wind tunnel tests have validated the
> concept, but it had never been tried in flight.
>
> Now the American aerospace company Northrop Grumman ...
>
>
>
> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993616
> ...
> New chapter
>
> A supersonic successor will be very different in design, Jackson
> told New Scientist: "There will be such an interval before any
> supersonic transport gets going again, that we'll start on a
> separate chapter of air travel."
>
> Bill Gunston, editor of Jane's Aero Engines and author of the book
> Faster Than Sound, believes dramatic improvements in aerodynamics
> over the last 30 years would now make it possible to build a much
> far more efficient supersonic craft than Concorde. He says the
> airplane's lift-to-drag ratio means it requires very powerful
> engines and huge amounts of fuel.
>
> "Any capable design outfit could design something vastly superior
> to Concorde," Junston told New Scientist.
> ...
>
>
> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030929/12/e9q0q.html
> Monday September 29, 04:00 PM
>
> Curvy aircraft could silence sonic booms
> By David L. Chandler
>
> As tickets for Concorde's final flight go on sale this week, an
> American aerospace company has demonstrated a way to modify a
> supersonic jet to dramatically reduce its sonic boom.
>
> The work could pave the way for a new generation of business jets
> quiet enough to fly at supersonic speed over populated areas.
>
> Sonic booms are one of the biggest drawbacks of supersonic flight.
> They are the thunderclaps caused when shock waves created at the
> nose and tail of an aircraft meet as they travel to the ground.
> Where the shock waves overlap they reinforce each other, creating
> the boom. Concorde's boom is so loud that the plane is forbidden
> from flying at supersonic speeds over land.
>
> In the 1970s, Richard Seebass and Albert George at Cornell
> University in Ithaca, New York, came up with a straightforward way
> to counter the problem. They reasoned that a shock wave would be
> weaker if it were spread out over a larger area.
>
> This could be achieved by replacing a plane's sharp nose with a
> blunter shape and redesigning parts of the wings, for example
> where the base of the wing meets the fuselage, so that the angles
> between surfaces do not change so abruptly.
>
> The idea was to force the shock waves to fan out more rapidly as
> they move away from these curves, spreading out their energy.
> Years of computer modelling and wind tunnel tests have validated
> the concept, but it had never been tried in flight.
>
> Now the American aerospace company Northrop Grumman has ...
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Larry Dighera wrote:
>
> It seems that the next generation of supersonic airliners may be
> permitted to fly over the US (to the west coast where I reside):

They will if an American company operates the plane. According to most press
reports that I saw at the time Concorde was being developed, about the only
reason the ban on SST flight was passed through Congress was the fact that the
Concorde was European. This was an era in which laws such as safety regulations
were being heavily used in economic warfare by Congress.

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the mud.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Roger Long wrote:
>
> Actually, NPR was very balanced.

I suspect that there is a lot of disparity amongst the various NPR stations.
I listen to WNYU in this area, and it seems to me that the commentators who
tend to go off the deep end are local. I expect that those hours which NYU
devotes to New York politics are filled with other programs in other parts of
the country.

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the mud.

[C J Campbell]

"Roger Long" m> wrote in
message ...
| Actually, NPR was very balanced. The flare is the largest in decades but
| they pointed out that the effects are difficult to predict. There is a
lot
| of unevenness in the cloud and other unpredictable effects. The stuff
that
| could really disrupt things might well miss us.

As the day has progressed they have toned down the hysteria considerably. As
for the rest of the media, the woo-woo crowd in Hollywood and New York has
become obsessed with decadence in corporate America. ROFL!

[Maule Driver]

Hey, my transponder stopped transponding yesterday for about 40 mins while
passing between Richmond and Raleigh. I was whipped into a frenzy when
Center told me that RDU wasn't going to want to take me without a
Transponder and 400' ceilings. I was whipped up at that point. Went to
Raliegh approach and they could see me fine.

Does that count? :-)

> Well, that flare is due here today. The news media are hysterical, talking
> about the enormous danger to aircraft navigation systems. NPR has gone
> absolutely ballistic. The general public should be whipped into a frenzy,
> fearing that it will start raining airplanes any second.
>

[Tom S.]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Roger Long" m> wrote
in
> message ...
> | Last weeks solar flare was a non-event except for "a few aircraft
> navigation
> | systems" as NPR put it. The one that erupted this morning and will
reach
> | earth Wednesday or Thursday is believed by astronomers to be possibly
the
> | largest since the invention of the integrated circuit.
> |
>
> Well, that flare is due here today. The news media are hysterical, talking
> about the enormous danger to aircraft navigation systems. NPR has gone
> absolutely ballistic. The general public should be whipped into a frenzy,
> fearing that it will start raining airplanes any second.
>
> Of course, the 'fair and balanced media' (and I do not mean just FOX,
here),
> will report tomorrow that nothing serious happened. Right? I mean, they do
> admit when they are wrong, don't they?
>
OTOH, if something DOES happen, they'll blame Bush.

[Mxsmanic]

Larry Dighera writes:

> It seems that the next generation of supersonic airliners may be
> permitted to fly over the US (to the west coast where I reside):

The problem of sonic booms was always vastly exaggerated, anyway (just
like the problem of solar flares). I heard sonic booms all the time
when I was little, and it never bothered me. I could never figure out
what the big deal was.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:01:48 -0600, "Montblack"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>B. I stole that sig line from somebody's post - Dave, in the Three Concordes
>thread.

The signature is worthy of plagiarizing. :-)

>C. I'm going to have a beer - before noon, to celebrate being called inane
>by LD.

I did not call YOU inane. I was referring to the often shallow
attempts at humor you routinely post. At least the signature line is
aviation related. Some folks like to read attempts at humor; I prefer
information.

>D. Dismissed!! Oh well. At least you didn't *plonk* me - did you? Larry?
>Hello....

While I completely understand readers taking responsibility for the
content they view in newsgroups; that is as it should be. Personally,
I find "head-in-the-sand" censorship to be as repugnant as any other
form of censorship. I take the good with along with the bad, so to
speak. C'est la vie. No?

[Dan Luke]

"C J Campbell" wrote:
> Well, that flare is due here today. The news media are hysterical,
> talking about the enormous danger to aircraft navigation systems.
> NPR has gone absolutely ballistic.

You must listen to a different NPR than I do. I've never heard them go
"absolutely ballistic" about anything, even 9/11.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:03:12 -0600, Big John >
wrote in Message-Id: >:

>A current program using a F-5 has demonstrated modeling of airframe
>that will reduce sonic booms.

Thanks for the data-point. Have you got a URL?

[Big John]

Larry

Go t Google and search for "F-5 sonic boom".


Big John



On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:24:18 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:03:12 -0600, Big John >
>wrote in Message-Id: >:
>
>>A current program using a F-5 has demonstrated modeling of airframe
>>that will reduce sonic booms.
>
>Thanks for the data-point. Have you got a URL?
>

[Montblack]

("Larry Dighera" wrote)
<snippy>
> I did not call YOU inane. I was referring to the often shallow
> attempts at humor you routinely post. At least the signature line is
> aviation related. Some folks like to read attempts at humor; I prefer
> information.

And I enjoy your attempts at information Larry :-)

"Cat fight" was funny! Not shallow - funny.

"I know funny" is a quote from Good Morning Vietnam (1987) Unfortunately the
next line is "...and that's not funny." Let's move on ...

I was at a banquet Saturday night talking with the guy who organized the
National Air Tour. He mostly flew the Pilatus support plane. Talk about
funny stories - he's got some about the tour. ...but those stories are not
welcome here no more. :-(

This isn't a PhD dissertation newsgroup, it's a hangar flying newsgroup. We
all have our own styles. Mine is more relaxed and well, playful - for lack
of a better word. Shallow it is not! Says me.

So there.

- Airplane (1980)

(See, much of what I post is aviation related.)

--
Montblack
"Just the usual inanity"

[Roger Halstead]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:50:25 GMT, EDR > wrote:

>In article >, Roger Halstead
> wrote:
>
>> Dumped a major portion of their power grid and here we
>> are still recovering from Ohio's mistake.
>
>Don't be such a generalist, it was CLEVELAND, "The Mistake on the Lake".
>
Wellll...I remember it was one of those "southern states" down there.
>:-))))

>As we sing in Ohio Stadium,
>"We don't give a damn for the whole State of Michigan... the whole
>State of Michigan... the whole State of Michigan... we don't give a

A lot of us up here are just sorta anchored after all these years, but
I have been in the tropics in the winter.

>damn for the whole State of Michigan, we're from OHIO!"

Where's that? >:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

>:-)))

[Montblack]

The Wellstone crash (one year ago this week) was close. It was all tribute,
all the time, for a few days there - not much balance. For NPR, it was
pretty close to "absolutely ballistic."

I voted for Paul one time and against him one time. Most of us in Minnesota
really liked the guy. He is truly missed. As for his politics .....

--
Montblack
"Just the usual inanity"


"Dan Luke"
> You must listen to a different NPR than I do. I've never heard them go
> "absolutely ballistic" about anything, even 9/11.

[Jim Weir]

Hey, fellers, you gotta understand that using "today" and "tomorrow" in the
newsgroups, when newspostings can be hours or days off, doesn't mean squat.

Today is Wednesday, 29 October. About noonish in California. When is that
sucker supposed to hit?

Jim
Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:33:26 -0800, Jim Weir > wrote
in Message-Id: >:

>Hey, fellers, you gotta understand that using "today" and "tomorrow" in the
>newsgroups, when newspostings can be hours or days off, doesn't mean squat.
>
>Today is Wednesday, 29 October. About noonish in California. When is that
>sucker supposed to hit?

Is the message below of any help?

Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:28:40 -0400
From: Richard Langley >
Subject: Space-Weather-Bulletin
Sender: GPS for Aviation >
X-X-Sender:
To:
Reply-to: GPS for Aviation >
Message-id:
>

Official Space Weather Advisory issued by NOAA Space Environment
Center
Boulder, Colorado, USA

SPACE WEATHER ADVISORY BULLETIN #03- 3
2003 October 28 at 10:55 a.m. MST (2003 October 28 1755 UTC)

**** SOLAR ACTIVE REGION PRODUCES INTENSE SOLAR FLARE ****

The dynamic solar regions reported on 21 October continue to produce
high levels of solar activity. NOAA Region 486 produced a category R4
(severe) radio blackout with an associated category S3 (strong) solar
radiation storm on 28 October at 1110 UTC (6:10 A.M. EST). The
SOHO/LASCO instruments also observed a full halo coronal mass ejection
with this activity, which is Earth directed. This region is the
second
largest in size this solar cycle.

As a result of this activity a category G4 (severe) geomagnetic storm
is
expected with periods of category G5 (extreme) levels possible. The
solar radiation storm is also expected to continue at strong (G3)
levels for the next 48 hours.

Further major eruptions are possible from these active regions as they
rotate across the face of the sun over the next few days. Agencies
impacted by solar flare radio blackouts, geomagnetic storms, and solar
radiation storms may experience disruptions through this period.
These
include spacecraft operations, electric power systems, HF
communications, and navigation systems.

Data used to provide space weather services are contributed by NOAA,
USAF, NASA, NSF, USGS, the International Space Environment Services
and other observatories, universities, and institutions. For more
information, including email services, see SEC's Space Weather
Advisories Web site http://sec.noaa.gov/advisories or (303) 497-5127.
The NOAA Public Affairs contact is Barbara McGehan at
or (303) 497-6288.

[Morgans]

"EDR" > wrote in message >
> Don't be such a generalist, it was CLEVELAND, "The Mistake on the Lake".
>
> As we sing in Ohio Stadium,
> "We don't give a damn for the whole State of Michigan... the whole
> State of Michigan... the whole State of Michigan... we don't give a
> damn for the whole State of Michigan, we're from OHIO!"
> :-)))

Sounds like you speak from Buckeye experience. What years?

Jim (5 year OSUMB alum) in NC

[Dan Luke]

"Montblack" wrote:
> The Wellstone crash (one year ago this week) was close. It was all
tribute,
> all the time, for a few days there - not much balance. For NPR, it was
> pretty close to "absolutely ballistic."

Do you mean NPR or are you talking about the local affiliates?

> I voted for Paul one time and against him one time. Most of us in
> Minnesota really liked the guy. He is truly missed. As for his
politics .....

Yeah, he seems to have had bipartisan respect, but was a bit too leftish
for me, too. Pretty dismal story about the crash. The investigation is
turning up stories about the pilot's having a poor reputation among the
other pilots at the 135 operation.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Big John]

Writ at 17:15 CST

Jim already dod it this morning per the data I read???

Did you notice the ink bubling in your ball point? Good measure of
when and how much <G>

Look for norther lights tonight if you are not in a smoke area from
fires.

Big John

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:33:26 -0800, Jim Weir > wrote:

>
>Hey, fellers, you gotta understand that using "today" and "tomorrow" in the
>newsgroups, when newspostings can be hours or days off, doesn't mean squat.
>
>Today is Wednesday, 29 October. About noonish in California. When is that
>sucker supposed to hit?
>
>Jim
>Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
>VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
>http://www.rst-engr.com

[Peter Duniho]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> I did not call YOU inane. I was referring to the often shallow
> attempts at humor you routinely post.

Personally, I find Montblack's "often shallow attempts at humor" to be quite
entertaining. Granted, I really enjoy bad puns too, so maybe I'm not the
best judge. :)

Montblack, don't you dare let Larry disuade you from your usual writing.
Some of us find your posts to be a welcome breath of fresh air in a forum
that is too often confrontational and overly serious. If all I wanted was
information, I'd spend my time reading the encyclopedia.

Pete

[G.R. Patterson III]

Montblack wrote:
>
> And I enjoy your attempts at information Larry :-)

ROTFL!

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the mud.

[Jay Honeck]

> Montblack, don't you dare let Larry disuade you from your usual writing.
> Some of us find your posts to be a welcome breath of fresh air in a forum
> that is too often confrontational and overly serious. If all I wanted was
> information, I'd spend my time reading the encyclopedia.

Hear, Hear! Three cheers for Montblack, and his "shallow attempts at
humor"!

Without which, BTW, my day would be incomplete.

(I, too, live a shallow life... Pass that pitcher of beer down, Montblack!
;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

Hey Roger, you got some new anti-Spam software or something?

I've tried emailing you (both independently, and in response to your
messages to me) several times over the last couple of days -- they all
bounce back as "undeliverable"...

Did I earn a hallowed place in your killfile? :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:48:29 -0600, Big John >
wrote in Message-Id: >:

>F-5 sonic boom

Many thanks, friend. :-)

[Montblack]

But, I'm funny how?
Funny like a clown?
I amuse you?
I make you laugh?
I'm here to [freakin'] amuse you?

Goodfellas (1990)

--
Montblack
"I like to watch"

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
> Hear, Hear! Three cheers for Montblack, and his "shallow attempts at
> humor"!
>
> Without which, BTW, my day would be incomplete.

[C J Campbell]

Solid overcast in the Puget Sound region tonight. No auroras. Cheated once
again. :-(

[Peter Duniho]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> Solid overcast in the Puget Sound region tonight. No auroras. Cheated once
> again. :-(

Look again. There are plenty of stars visible on the Eastside. Probably up
at the San Juans too. I dunno about elsewhere.

[ANDREW ROBERT BREEN]

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:02:08 -0600, "Montblack"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:
>
>While the usual inanity contained in articles posted by Montblack are
>easily dismissed, this caught my eye:
>
>>"Styled by the laws of nature.............Concorde"
>
>
>It seems that the next generation of supersonic airliners may be
>permitted to fly over the US (to the west coast where I reside):

One of the design proposals in the 1950s for an alternative to what became
Concorde (the M1.8, later M2.0 SST) was a M1.2 to M1.5 aeroplane with a
wing shape designed to not produce sonic booms at ground level - Armstrong
Whitworth produced a design with an "M" shaped wing, and the oblique-wing
design from Handley-Page may have been intended for the same job. There's
a picture of a design mock-up of the A-W M-wing in this month's Aeroplane
Monthly. There's a plan-view of it at:
http://airlines.afriqonline.com/aircraft/paper/
The oblique-wing H-P is in there too.
There was also an M-wing proposal (M1.3) from Bristol, for the same
reasons as the A-W:
http://www.chew76.fsnet.co.uk/concorde/bris2.jpg

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

[Wdtabor]

>>
>> Of course, the 'fair and balanced media' (and I do not mean just FOX,
>here),
>> will report tomorrow that nothing serious happened. Right? I mean, they do
>> admit when they are wrong, don't they?
>>
>OTOH, if something DOES happen, they'll blame Bush.
>

When we all know it is a result of Clinton's failure to take timely action to
prevent it.

(This message has been brought to you by your fair and balanced Libertarian
Party news media.)

don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:52:10 -0600, "Montblack"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>And I enjoy your attempts at information Larry :-)

Thank you.

If you'll take the time to read the charter of this newsgroup , you'll
note the first word is 'information' not 'jocularity', but pertinent
INFORMATION.

The charter of rec.aviation.piloting is:


************************************************** **************************
* Information pertinent to pilots of general aviation aircraft
* which would not fall into one of the other non-misc
* rec.aviation groups. Topics include, but are not limited to
* flying skills, interesting sights, destinations, flight
* characteristics of aircraft, unusual situations, handling
* emergencies, working with air traffic control, international
* flights, customs and immigration, experiences with ground
* support facilities, etc.

************************************************** **************************

Perhaps it's time to charter a new newsgroup:
rec.aviation.hangar-flying. We could post a Request For Discussion in
the rec.aviation.* hierarchy. Just a thought. And then those who
thrive on frivolity can have a place all their own to share their
pearls with each other. We could imposed an X-Archive=no header
requirement for articles posted to rec.aviation.hangar-flying, so that
the articles would be excluded from the public archive. Perhaps you'd
be willing to shoulder the task of drafting a charter for the proposed
newsgroup.

I see the intended content of rec.aviation.piloting more as an
informational resource and news exchange medium among responsible
airmen, than a hee-haw party line despite the fact that many would
prefer to reduce it to that. The choice is ours.

>I was at a banquet Saturday night talking with the guy who organized the
>National Air Tour. He mostly flew the Pilatus support plane. Talk about
>funny stories - he's got some about the tour. ...but those stories are not
>welcome here no more. :-(

Your self-imposed restraint is noted (despite your double-negative).

Perhaps the substance of the "guys" talk would be a more appropriate
subject for you to share with us in this PUBLIC forum.

>This isn't a PhD dissertation newsgroup, it's a hangar flying newsgroup.

What you overlook is the PUBLIC nature of usenet in general (which is
publicly archived for posterity), and specifically the image of pilots
the lay public carries away from reading rec.aviation.piloting.
Again, the choice is ours.

In this time, when GA is being singled out as an expendable "kick dog"
by those bureaucracies in charge of national security, the military,
and airlines, ..., I believe it is in the best interest of all airmen
to put forth to the public our best face, our sober dedication to
responsibility and professionalism, rather than portray ourselves the
as frivolous clowns recklessly cavorting over the heads of the
ground-bound public as the media continually attempt.

Perhaps we should all consider how what we're about to post reflects
on our fellows. My fear is, that if we fail to police ourselves,
restrictive measures will be arbitrarily imposed upon us by those with
the power to advance their own agenda. Please, let's don't give them
any ammunition here.

I realize that my views will likely be ridiculed by those who are
incapable of understanding the issue, and those who thrive on chaos
and frivolity. That is the price I will pay for speaking up for what
I believe is right. I choose to personally suffer those "slings and
arrows" if it will in any way stem the loss of our right to navigate
the skies.

I can see that you are capable of willing restraint by your decision
to refrain from publicly posting the "funny stories" you mentioned
above. Thank you.

For our own good, I would strongly urge all airmen to emphasize our
sober dedication to responsible airmanship when in view of the public
as we are in this publicly archived forum.




.................................................. ...............

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: (Geoff Peck)
Subject: CHARTER: rec.aviation.piloting
Followup-To: poster
Reply-To:
Message-ID: >
Supersedes: >
Expires: 20 Feb 2002
Organization: The rec.aviation auto-poster
Distribution: world
Originator:
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 08:45:46 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.136.112.1
X-Complaints-To:
X-Trace: sjc-read.news.verio.net 1010911546 192.136.112.1 (Sun, 13
Jan 2002 08:45:46 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 08:45:46 GMT


[This message is posted automatically every month.]

The charter of rec.aviation.piloting is:


************************************************** **************************
* Information pertinent to pilots of general aviation aircraft
* which would not fall into one of the other non-misc
* rec.aviation groups. Topics include, but are not limited to
* flying skills, interesting sights, destinations, flight
* characteristics of aircraft, unusual situations, handling
* emergencies, working with air traffic control, international
* flights, customs and immigration, experiences with ground
* support facilities, etc.

************************************************** **************************


================================================== ============================
>>> N.B. articles relevant to wanting to learn to fly, learning
>>> to fly, initially obtaining a medical certificate,
>>> instructional techniques, textbooks, videotapes, written
>>> and flight tests, etc. belong in rec.aviation.student
>>> and not in this group! [rec.aviation.piloting]

================================================== ============================

! Please note that many articles get posted to
! rec.aviation.piloting which should be posted to
! rec.aviation.misc, and vice-versa. For reference, the charter
! of rec.aviation.misc is:
!
! In case there are things which didn't get "caught" by the
! other groups, rec.aviation.misc provides a home for these
! other topics. An example would be posts on commercial
! airliners and ultralights which, for the moment, do not have
! their own home.

There are now many separate subgroups on rec.aviation; if the
charter above doesn't match the content of the article you're
posting (or you're following up), please consider one of the other
groups as a more appropriate forum:

rec.aviation.aerobatics Aerobatics and unusual attitude
flying
* rec.aviation.announce Events of interest to the aviation
community
* rec.aviation.answers Frequently asked questions about
aviation
rec.aviation.hang-gliding Hang-gliding, paragliding,
foot-launched flight
rec.aviation.homebuilt Selecting, designing, building, and
restoring aircraft
rec.aviation.ifr Flying under Instrument Flight Rules
rec.aviation.marketplace Aviation classifieds
rec.aviation.military Military aircraft of the past,
present and future
rec.aviation.military.naval Discussion of Naval Aviation
subjects
rec.aviation.misc Miscellaneous topics in aviation
rec.aviation.owning Information on owning airplanes
rec.aviation.piloting General discussion for aviators
rec.aviation.products Reviews and discussion of products
for pilots
rec.aviation.restoration Forum for debate on aircraft
restoration
rec.aviation.rotorcraft Helicopters and other rotary wing
aircraft
rec.aviation.simulators Flight simulation on all levels
rec.aviation.soaring All aspects of sailplanes and
hang-gliders
* rec.aviation.stories Anecdotes of flight experiences
rec.aviation.student Learning to fly
rec.aviation.ultralight Light aircraft in general, all
topics
rec.aviation.balloon Hot air and gas balloons and
airships
rec.aviation.powerchutes Safety and operation of powered
parachutes

[newsgroups marked by * are moderated groups]

A common question is "what should I do if an article spans the
charters of two or more groups?" The answer is cross-posting. If
you have an article which clearly crosses the boundaries of
several groups, you should post a **single** copy of the article
to **all** of the relevant groups. Don't post separate copies to
each group. Most modern newsreaders will display the article
exactly once to the reader -- in the first group in which it is
encountered and read.

If you feel that the replies should be directed to a subset of the
groups to which you are submitting your post, be sure to include a
line of the form "Followup-to: groupname" in the header of your
message. See the header of this message for an example.

If you are replying to a cross-posted article and your reply is
germane to only a subset of the original groups, please ensure
that you check the Newsgroups: line to remove unnecessary groups.
If the reply is germane to all the groups in which the article was
originally posted, try to ensure that all the groups are listed in
the Newsgroups: line. Some older newsreaders cause a reply to go
only to the group which is currently being read.

Use cross-posting sparingly. If an article "90% belongs" in one
group and "10% belongs" in another, post it only to the first
group.

Geoff

[Jay Honeck]

> Goodfellas (1990)

Your knowledge of movie scripts is really starting to worry me, you know
that? ;-)

Hey -- it's gonna be 75 degrees here today, and sunny! (This after sleet
and cold all week...)

Enjoy -- it's probably the "last hurrah" of summer...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Solid overcast in the Puget Sound region tonight. No auroras. Cheated once
> again. :-(

Ah, don't worry -- it's just the usual "Haley's Comet" media hoax. I took
my family out into the county, away from the city lights. It was dark as a
witch's soul...

No aurora here.

We do this every time they say there will be a comet, meteor shower, or sun
flare. Never -- not even ONCE -- have we seen anything. :-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[C J Campbell]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:wG9ob.62156$HS4.549608@attbi_s01...
| > Solid overcast in the Puget Sound region tonight. No auroras. Cheated
once
| > again. :-(
|
| Ah, don't worry -- it's just the usual "Haley's Comet" media hoax. I took
| my family out into the county, away from the city lights. It was dark as
a
| witch's soul...
|
| No aurora here.
|
| We do this every time they say there will be a comet, meteor shower, or
sun
| flare. Never -- not even ONCE -- have we seen anything. :-(
| --

I actually saw Halley's Comet, but you needed a very dark night to see much
of it. Of course, nobody could see Kahoutec with the naked eye, though I
vividly remember one woman calling into a radio station excitedly saying she
could see it.

"It is kind of a red blinking light moving across the sky."

Host: "Great! Yes! Now I see it, too!"

[Ron Natalie]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message ...

> I actually saw Halley's Comet, but you needed a very dark night to see much
> of it.

We saw it (out on the roof of our building in the middle of an Army proving ground).
I've also seen Bennetts comet (which was much brighter and trivial to see once
you got up at 3AM to go look for it).

I've also seen countless meteor showers. It helps to have a next door neighbor
who was an astronomy buff.

[nooneimportant]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:wG9ob.62156$HS4.549608@attbi_s01...
> | > Solid overcast in the Puget Sound region tonight. No auroras. Cheated
> once
> | > again. :-(
> |
> | Ah, don't worry -- it's just the usual "Haley's Comet" media hoax. I
took
> | my family out into the county, away from the city lights. It was dark
as
> a
> | witch's soul...
> |
> | No aurora here.
> |
> | We do this every time they say there will be a comet, meteor shower, or
> sun
> | flare. Never -- not even ONCE -- have we seen anything. :-(
> | --
>
> I actually saw Halley's Comet, but you needed a very dark night to see
much
> of it. Of course, nobody could see Kahoutec with the naked eye, though I
> vividly remember one woman calling into a radio station excitedly saying
she
> could see it.
>
> "It is kind of a red blinking light moving across the sky."
>
> Host: "Great! Yes! Now I see it, too!"
>
>


Hehe... never even looked for that one. Bud did get a great view of comet
Hyukatake... just happened to be planning a big spring break trip to the
Texas Big Bend/Davis mountain area (including the McDonnal Observatory) had
no idea the comet was going to be around untill a few months before the
trip... well after we had it all planned out. Was incredible to see it and
its tail streak across about fifteen degrees of arc in the darkest skies
available in the south central US.... I also saw the 1989 aurora event from
the Dallas Fort Worth area, but i was a wee little ladd then.... just
remember seeing the colerful arcs across the sky and convincing my friend
next door we were under alien attack... he went and hid (arent' kids awful,
i know i was!). Never did see halleys last time through, remember dad
driving us well away from the city lights to look for it tho. Hale Bopp was
also fairly impressive, unfortunately the only time i really saw it was the
city lights washing out most of the tail. Stayed up late last night
checking outside every thirty minutes for these danged aurorae, never saw a
single thing so i called it a night... supposed to take my first solo XC
today from Arlington Municipal (KGKY) to Stephenville Clark (KSEP) but the
high winds may get in the way... will know more about that later...

[Montblack]

Say hello to my little friend (Google) - Scarface (1983)

http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/sfischo/quotes.html
Tripped over this site this morning

Cool, 4th straight day of misty-drizzle-sleet-damp in St. Paul/Minneapolis.

Montblack
"I like to watch"


("Jay Honeck" wrote)
> Your knowledge of movie scripts is really starting to worry me, you know
> that? ;-)
>
> Hey -- it's gonna be 75 degrees here today, and sunny! (This after sleet
> and cold all week...)

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
<snip>
> We do this every time they say there will be a comet, meteor shower, or
sun
> flare. Never -- not even ONCE -- have we seen anything. :-(


Pssst...Buddy. Wanna buy some 30th anniversary Comet Kahotek pictures?

Montblack
"I like to watch"

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:22:28 -0600, "Montblack"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>("Jay Honeck" wrote)
><snip>
>> We do this every time they say there will be a comet, meteor shower, or
>sun
>> flare. Never -- not even ONCE -- have we seen anything. :-(
>
>
>Pssst...Buddy. Wanna buy some 30th anniversary Comet Kahotek pictures?
>
>Montblack
>"I like to watch"
>


Here's a little information pertinent to the subject of this thread:


Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:44:58 -0400
From: Richard Langley >
Subject: Major Geomagnetic Storm Underway

As reported by the Canadian Space Weather Forecast Centre in Ottawa:

Major Storm Warning
A major solar flare and eruption on the Sun occurred on 28 October at
11:02 UT (06:02 EST). This sent a cloud of charged particles towards
the Earth at a speed of over 2000 km/sec. The size of the solar flare
and the speed of the eruption prompted the Canadian Space Weather
Forecast Centre to issue a ÒMajor Storm WatchÓ for 29 October from
06:00 to 14:00 UT (01:00 to 09:00 EST).

Major Storm Observed
The solar disturbance reached the Earth at approx 06:00 UT (01:00
EST), 29 October and has produced a Major Magnetic Storm in all
regions of Canada. Magnetic field variations are up to 1000 nT at
lower latitudes and over 3000 nT in the auroral zone, reaching a
maximum of 4000 nT at Iqualuit. This is over 10 times larger than a
moderate magnetic storm, and over 100 times larger than normal
conditions. The size of the magnetic disturbance means that
compasses can be unreliable, HF radio propagation will be affected,
and large geomagnetically induced currents can be expected.

[Note that the GPS broadcast single-frequency ionospheric delay model
will likely be performing poorly and WADGPS systems such as WAAS and
CDGPS will likely be unable to account for storm effects on their
ionospheric delay corrections. -- R.B.L.]

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:51:29 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote:

>Perhaps it's time to charter a new newsgroup:
>rec.aviation.hangar-flying. ...

What you really want is one of two things:

1. Get used to newsgroup culture. It's the
new Wild West, a frontier without
limits.

2. A moderated newsgroup, e.g.,
rec.aviation.humorless.piloting.moderated

>We could post a Request For Discussion in
>the rec.aviation.* hierarchy.

RFDs are circulated and debated through
<news:news.groups>. These are the people
who brought you <rec.aviation.piloting> and
all of the rec.aviation.* groups. There are rules and
regulations for creating new groups. If you're serious
about starting a new group, I'd be happy to help you
understand the technicalities. If you're not serious,
then you're joking, and that is contrary to the charter
of r.a.p. per your interpretation. :-P

(Rev.) Martin X. Moleski, SJ, Ph.D.
A moderator of <news:rec.autos.sport.nascar.moderated>
Lurker in r.a.p.

[Mxsmanic]

Montblack writes:

> Montblack
> "I like to watch"

_Being There_, 1979

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

[David Brooks]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "C J Campbell" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Solid overcast in the Puget Sound region tonight. No auroras. Cheated
once
> > again. :-(
>
> Look again. There are plenty of stars visible on the Eastside. Probably
up
> at the San Juans too. I dunno about elsewhere.

But from the Snoqualmie valley I didn't see any sign of an aurora anyway.
Just the glow of lights from Monroe (which is 8 miles north of me and has a
well-lit prison).

-- David Brooks

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> No aurora here.

Nothing in New Jersey either, though the moon was nice tonight (Thursday).

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the mud.

[Robert Perkins]

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:58:36 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>
>We do this every time they say there will be a comet, meteor shower, or sun
>flare. Never -- not even ONCE -- have we seen anything. :-(

I saw Hale-Bopp, low in the sky early in '97. Oddest thing: I consider
myself a pretty rational guy, but I just stood there and stared, and
stared, and stared. Just like when I saw Saturn through a telescope
the first time. (It was a pretty big telescope, compared to the ones
you can get at Wal-Mart). Very nearly a spiritual experience.

Keep seeking 'em out. You won't regret it.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

[Montblack]

("Mxsmanic" wrote)
> > "I like to watch"
>
> _Being There_, 1979


:-)

--
Montblack

[Montblack]

("Larry Dighera" wrote lots of stuff)

Sorry folks, I'm going line by line - sort of.

Larry. I'm going to take a whack at this even though it's 4am. This will be
"stream of consciousness" stuff, so hold on.


> The charter of rec.aviation.piloting is:


Topics include, but are not limited to......


> Perhaps it's time to charter a new newsgroup:


This newsgroup is fine the way it is. There's 500 rec.aviation groups now,
you need another?


> I see the intended content of rec.aviation.piloting more as an
> informational resource and news exchange medium among responsible
> airmen, than a hee-haw party line despite the fact that many would
> prefer to reduce it to that. The choice is ours.


This is a GREAT place to hang out and talk aviation talk - pull up a bale of
hay Mr. Douglas, don't let Mr. Ziffel's pig bother you.

Yes, less political talk lately has been a relief. Less headset talk would
be nice too, but there are those who live for those threads <g>. I have a
big button on my toolbar - Mark Conversation as Read. When a thread is not
of interest to me, I hit that button. If a thread gets out of control, I hit
that button. It's a great button, you should get one.


> >I was at a banquet Saturday night talking with the guy who organized the
> >National Air Tour. He mostly flew the Pilatus support plane. Talk about
> >funny stories - he's got some about the tour. ...but those stories are
not
> >welcome here no more. :-(
>
> Your self-imposed restraint is noted (despite your double-negative).


It's a play on a Tom Petty song:

Chorus
Don't come around here no more
Don't come around here no more
Whatever you're looking for
Hey, don't come around here no more

Back to the Air Tour. Wow, is all I can say. You don't want stories from the
pilots who flew 4,000 miles on the National air Tour? Larry, they were
putting their planes down in bean fields, and then flying to the next town
....out of the bean fields. This is in 2003. Type of plane? Oh, just a
Tri-Motor. One guy, in one of the Sikorskys, was "humping" rides at every
stop. They'd land at a town - most of the pilots would want to hit the hotel
right away, but this guy was giving rides ..."every" stop. He'd then have to
catch a cab back to the hotel, later that night, because he'd missed the
bus - again.

How bout this one - on the day they were to fly the final leg, back to
Willow Run, there was a thunderstorm in their path. It was the only T-storm
in the entire country that day. Also, Ford was holding open a narrow time
slot for the planes, at their Proving Grounds track (the site of the
original Ford Airport). Weather meant the National Air Tour planes couldn't
get over there on time - so they called Ford and said it won't work out -
doing a touch-n-go at the original starting line with all of the planes.
Weather broke a few hours later. Tour called Ford back and asked if the
Proving Grounds track people could all take their lunch break ...now. Ford
said sure, you've got 20 minutes. Tour organizers loaded up all the
Tri-Motors with Tour pilots. They crammed as many people (Tour pilots and
crew) as they could into about 4 planes and headed over to do some low
passes, and a few touch-n-go nods to the past National Air Tours of the 20's
and 30's.

He had a bunch of these stories, some funny, some almost unprintable. <g>


> Perhaps the substance of the "guys" talk would be a more appropriate
> subject for you to share with us in this PUBLIC forum.

"Guy's"

Your word "substance" seems to imply stripped of any ...flavor, charm, or
personality - mine, or the personality of the original guy telling the
stories. Larry, these were funny stories, whimsical stories, romantic
stories, adventurous stories, but not too many were bland and
(appropriately) informative stories.

I'm certainly no writer, but at least my stuff doesn't read like the FAR's.
Not saying yours does, but you seem to want this newsgroup to resemble
(excruciatingly dull) city council proceedings. Just my observation.


> >This isn't a PhD dissertation newsgroup, it's a hangar flying newsgroup.
>
> What you overlook is the PUBLIC nature of usenet in general (which is
> publicly archived for posterity), and specifically the image of pilots
> the lay public carries away from reading rec.aviation.piloting.
> Again, the choice is ours.


This is where you head to the deep end of the pool. History will judge this
group to be: civil (lack of swearing in the posts is a big +) informative,
entertaining, interesting, and (I think) welcoming to new posters. It's also
peopled by posters passionate about planes.


> In this time, when GA is being singled out as an expendable "kick dog"
> by those bureaucracies in charge of national security, the military,
> and airlines, ..., I believe it is in the best interest of all airmen
> to put forth to the public our best face, our sober dedication to
> responsibility and professionalism, rather than portray ourselves the
> as frivolous clowns recklessly cavorting over the heads of the
> ground-bound public as the media continually attempt.


Hmm. You've got professional, bureaucrat, sober, and responsible all in one
sentence.


> Perhaps we should all consider how what we're about to post reflects
> on our fellows. My fear is, that if we fail to police ourselves,
> restrictive measures will be arbitrarily imposed upon us by those with
> the power to advance their own agenda. Please, let's don't give them
> any ammunition here.


Neal has a funny looking plane. (When around Neal, it's best to call it
unique) Have you seen it? It's so odd it's actually kind of cool.
CheckerBird.

http://www.nealhoward.net/

The plane is a Cherokee 140. Oh my God Larry. Indian names!!! Look out, here
come the public, I mean villagers with their torches.


> I realize that my views will likely be ridiculed by those who are
> incapable of understanding the issue, and those who thrive on chaos
> and frivolity. That is the price I will pay for speaking up for what
> I believe is right. I choose to personally suffer those "slings and
> arrows" if it will in any way stem the loss of our right to navigate
> the skies.


There's a Psyche studies Masters Research Thesis that can be written just on
the above paragraph.

Larry, there is no issue. Some might be incapable of understanding *you*,
but other than that - no issue. Politics and religion posts are down, that's
a good thing. Other than that - no issue.


> I can see that you are capable of willing restraint by your decision
> to refrain from publicly posting the "funny stories" you mentioned
> above. Thank you.


You're welcome. Now, how about dinner at my house? We can eat bread ...the
kind with no crusts. Nothing else, just bread ...and water.


> For our own good, I would strongly urge all airmen to emphasize our
> sober dedication to responsible airmanship when in view of the public
> as we are in this publicly archived forum.


Again with the sober. I think you're baiting me now. :-)

I can't tell if you're paranoid or simply have issues with some kind of
pompously self-important pilot ego thing.

Rereading this a few times now, it dawns on me what's at the core of your
"issues." Larry, you're one of those people who thrive in a bureaucracy.
You're smart, but you've given up "common sense" to the rulebook. The rule
book is safe and comforting.

Kobayashi Maru my friend. Kobayashi Maru.

--
Montblack

[Peter R.]

G.R. Patterson III ) wrote:

>
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
> >
> > No aurora here.
>
> Nothing in New Jersey either, though the moon was nice tonight (Thursday).

Saw the Aurora last night just outside of Syracuse, NY (Thursday).
Unfortunately, I was on the ground but it was still a treat.

--
Peter












----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:41:17 -0500, "Martin X. Moleski, SJ"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:51:29 GMT, Larry Dighera >
>wrote:
>
>>Perhaps it's time to charter a new newsgroup:
>>rec.aviation.hangar-flying. ...
>
>What you really want is one of two things:
>
>1. Get used to newsgroup culture. It's the
> new Wild West, a frontier without
> limits.

I've been posting to usenet since 1984. Believe me, I'm quite used to
its culture. What makes you think I'm not?

>2. A moderated newsgroup, e.g.,
> rec.aviation.humorless.piloting.moderated

I doubt there would be significant traffic to warrant such a group.
In any event, I do not condone the censorship (be it through
moderation, or other means) of others' rights to free expression of
their thoughts on usenet.

>>We could post a Request For Discussion in the rec.aviation.* hierarchy.
>
>RFDs are circulated and debated through <news:news.groups>.

Right. And how are the people who would be interested in such a
discussion notified that it is taking place in
news.announce.newgroups?

From the FAQ:

A request for discussion on creation of a new newsgroup should be
posted to news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, and any other
groups or mailing lists at all related to the proposed topic if
desired. news.announce.newgroups is moderated, and the
Followup-to: header will be set so that the actual discussion
takes place only in news.groups.

My suggestion seems consistent with the FAQ.

>These are the people
>who brought you <rec.aviation.piloting> and
>all of the rec.aviation.* groups. There are rules and
>regulations for creating new groups.

Yep: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/creating-newsgroups/part1/

>If you're serious
>about starting a new group, I'd be happy to help you
>understand the technicalities.

Your kind offer is most appreciated. However, I have no difficulty in
understanding the technicalities, thanks.

>If you're not serious,
>then you're joking, and that is contrary to the charter

If the creation of a hangar-flying newsgroup will divert those who
post frivolity and inanities in the piloting newsgroup to the new one,
I'm serious.

[Paul Sengupta]

I come here because all my other friends are bored with me
talking about aeroplanes. Even the pilot friends! :-)

Paul

If you can toast the bread and put some butter on it, it'll do me.

"Montblack" > wrote in message
news:3fa23c4d$0$75893> This is a GREAT place to hang out and talk aviation
talk - pull up a bale of
> hay Mr. Douglas, don't let Mr. Ziffel's pig bother you.

> You're welcome. Now, how about dinner at my house? We can eat bread ...the
> kind with no crusts. Nothing else, just bread ...and water.

[Jay Honeck]

> I come here because all my other friends are bored with me
> talking about aeroplanes. Even the pilot friends! :-)

Heh -- I hear that.

Actually, I think that's the best part about owning the inn, Paul -- I've
always got new people to torture! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Paul Sengupta]

My ex-lodger (he didn't leave because of this, he left
because he lost his job from the telecomms downturn)
was a pilot (lapsed) and aviation nut. I could even overdose
him with Discovery Wings and Pilot/Flyer/Today's Pilot
magazines, etc...

Now he's moved out, he does seem to come to more
aviation events than he used to though! Must be missing all
the aviation stuff... :-)

Paul

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:wwOpb.103450$Fm2.88658@attbi_s04...
> Actually, I think that's the best part about owning the inn, Paul -- I've
> always got new people to torture! :-)

[John Galban]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<wwOpb.103450$Fm2.88658@attbi_s04>...
> > I come here because all my other friends are bored with me
> > talking about aeroplanes. Even the pilot friends! :-)
>
> Heh -- I hear that.
>
> Actually, I think that's the best part about owning the inn, Paul -- I've
> always got new people to torture! :-)

And they pay for the privilege!

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Actually, I think that's the best part about owning the inn, Paul -- I've
> always got new people to torture! :-)

No repeat customers, eh?

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

[Jay Honeck]

> No repeat customers, eh?

Ouch! That was low, George...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"