Are OLC and Contest Soaring really that different?

[Sean Fidler]

Some observations:

OLC:
Get in your glider and go as far as you can, as fast as you can. Start whenever you want. Turn in your file and you’re done. Before the flight you look at the weather and plan to use it to maximize your flight distance within the given local & conditions. 1000+ pilots. Very few rules. Growing.

Contest Soaring:
Register, fill out forms, insurance, etc, etc. Travel to the contest site. Go to the pilots meeting (safety, etc). Listen to the weather briefing. Beforehand the CD and task committee have looked at the weather, terrain, etc and planned a task that takes the pilots into the best flying conditions possible. Grid and launch when told. Once in the air, at some point, the start gate is opened. Start whenever you want. Maximize your flight distance and speed in an AAT or MAT task (more and more common with handicap based classes, AT's are very rare) within the given condition’s as planned for you by the task committee. When done turn in your file. Lots of rules. Around 100 pilots. Declining attendance in general with the exception of a couple rare regional contests.

I very much enjoy both modes. A have flown more in contests than OLC. But (based on the recent debates) when you think about it these two forms of glider competition are really much more similar than one might think in terms of flying challenge and actual process.

Especially if you consider a group of friends flying on the same day and out of the same flying field.

[Bob Kuykendall]

> I very much enjoy both modes...

It doesn't sound that way from the way you've described it.

Thanks, Bob K.

[noel.wade]

On Feb 29, 2:18*pm, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
> > I very much enjoy both modes...
>
> It doesn't sound that way from the way you've described it.
>
> Thanks, Bob K.

Bob -

You're a tech/web-savvy guy, so I know you can figure out this
acronym: DNFTT. :-)

Thanks,

--Noel

[Dave[_26_]]

On Feb 29, 3:11*pm, Sean Fidler > wrote:
> Some observations:
>
> OLC:
> Get in your glider and go as far as you can, as fast as you can. *Start whenever you want. *Turn in your file and you’re done. *Before the flight you look at the weather and plan to use it to maximize your flight distance within the given local & conditions. *1000+ pilots. *Very few rules. *Growing.
>
> Contest Soaring:
> Register, fill out forms, insurance, etc, etc. *Travel to the contest site. *Go to the pilots meeting (safety, etc). *Listen to the weather briefing. *Beforehand the CD and task committee have looked at the weather, terrain, etc and planned a task that takes the pilots into the best flying conditions possible. *Grid and launch when told. * Once in the air, at some point, the start gate is opened. *Start whenever you want. *Maximize your flight distance and speed in an AAT or MAT task (more and more common with handicap based classes, AT's are very rare) within the given condition’s as planned for you by the task committee. *When done turn in your file. *Lots of rules. *Around 100 pilots. *Declining attendance in general with the exception of a couple rare regional contests.
>
> I very much enjoy both modes. *A have flown more in contests than OLC. *But (based on the recent debates) when you think about it these two forms of glider competition are really much more similar than one might think in terms of flying challenge and actual process.
>
> Especially if you consider a group of friends flying on the same day and out of the same flying field.

You are way off on the numbers of participants. And your growth
estimates for both.

OLC did have 1025 pilots with at least one flight in 2011. But only
587 with more than 5 flights entered in 2011. Growth has essentially
plateaued. Check the last few years on the OLC site.

SSA Contests have a seeding list of 576 pilots that have flown at
least one contest in the last 3 years. That is very stable. No
significant change in the last 10+ years.

OLC is set up to be decentralized. You can compare results. But there
is no fair way to compare pilot skill or glider performance. The
weather differences dominate.

SSA sanctioned contests are set up to be centralized. And to equalize
the challenge as much as possible for all competitors and then compare
the results.

Both are interesting and fun. For comparing pilot / glider
performance, the centralized contest is far better. For fun, well it
depends on what you find fun.

-Dave

[Sean Fidler]

Thanks for the info Dave. I thought I saw a presentation at the awards banquet at this months SSA convention that registered contest pilots was around 100 last year and that number had been in decline for roughly 10 years. I think I have a photo somewhere.

I prefer contest soaring by far personally. I have restarted my local contest and strongly resisted the push of many to simply have an OLC contest instead. That was a little to far for me even before I had ever flown a real contest.

The OLC is too subjective when comparing flights in different locations or even same locations seperated by any significant period of time.

That said, OLC scored contests would be an interesting concept to try one day soon. It would be interesting to see if that concept would improve attendance somehow.

Only so much time...maybe this fall I will organize this.

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:11:39 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Some observations:
>
> OLC:
> Get in your glider and go as far as you can, as fast as you can. Start whenever you want. Turn in your file and you’re done. Before the flight you look at the weather and plan to use it to maximize your flight distance within the given local & conditions. 1000+ pilots. Very few rules. Growing.
>
> Contest Soaring:
> Register, fill out forms, insurance, etc, etc. Travel to the contest site. Go to the pilots meeting (safety, etc). Listen to the weather briefing.. Beforehand the CD and task committee have looked at the weather, terrain, etc and planned a task that takes the pilots into the best flying conditions possible. Grid and launch when told. Once in the air, at some point, the start gate is opened. Start whenever you want. Maximize your flight distance and speed in an AAT or MAT task (more and more common with handicap based classes, AT's are very rare) within the given condition’s as planned for you by the task committee. When done turn in your file. Lots of rules. Around 100 pilots. Declining attendance in general with the exception of a couple rare regional contests.
>
> I very much enjoy both modes. A have flown more in contests than OLC. But (based on the recent debates) when you think about it these two forms of glider competition are really much more similar than one might think in terms of flying challenge and actual process.
>
> Especially if you consider a group of friends flying on the same day and out of the same flying field.

I'll bite. Leaving aside logistics and all the other stuff, let's look at the differences around the competition on a given day:

Tasking:
- OLC: Get to the airport and see how it looks as you launch or maybe even after you get in the air. Head off in the best direction. If you don't don't like the looks after a few miles, head off in another direction. If that doesn't work, pick a third. Heck, if it doesn't look as good as you thought it would be, go back to the airport and practice low saves. You can always fly another day.

- Racing Task: Fly the task as determined by the CD and his/her competition comittee based on weather progged that morning and maybe (maybe not) updated at the time of launch. If there's a blue hole 20 miles out on the first leg, figure out whether to climb in weak lift before the blue hole or drive on through hoping for a low save on the far side. No turning back now. Oh, and that big cirrus shelf that moved in faster than predicted... cut now and run for the second turn or dive deep hoping the good conditions stay put for a little longer. Quit now or make a wrong decision and get hammered in the standings.

Turnpoint Strategy

- OLC: This last cloud looks like a great place to turn.

- Racing Task: The CD gave us a 20 mile radius TAT. Looks better to the West, but that cuts the second leg short. If I end up making better time than I thought on the second leg, I'll have to go deep into the notorious Swamp River sinkhole. Or, even worse, I cut all the turns too short and I'm 20 minutes early. At 60 Miles Per hour I threw away 20 miles that the other guys got. That's 10% on this 3 hour TAT. Goodbye 100 points...


Start Strategy
- OLC: Staying up nicely. Guess I'll head out.

- Racing Task: Okay, so I'm figuring on around 60mph today, with the day dying around 5:00. It's a 220 mile AAT, so I need to be on course by around 1:30 latest. But, none of these other guys seems to be starting. I sure don't want to be out there alone on a blue day. But I don't wanna play start gate roulette much longer. Please KS, take a start now.

Gaggle Flying

- OLC: My buddy Alpha Bravo caught up with, how nice. We can fly together now.

- Racing Task: That ******* Alpha Bravo started 20 minutes behind me and he caught up to me. If I stay with him the rest of the way, he's got me smoked. But if I head out alone, I run the risk of hitting the dirt. Damn. Where did KS gaggle go?


Final Glide

- OLC: I'm 30 miles out. Just hit a nice 3 knotter. Yeah, it's not the best thermal I've seen all day, but it's pretty good. What's another few minutes in the climb? Why risk soiling my shorts...

- Racing Task: I'm 30 miles out. Damn - best I can find is a 3 knotter. DJ says the way to go is to "bump up" to final glide. Well, I'm 2,000 low, but here goes nothin'...

Religion

- OLC: Down to 1,000 feet. Thank you God for that 1 knotter. Better hang on to this one for a while.

- Racing Task: Down to 1,000 feet. God dammit - can't you do better than 1 knot?! Those guys are KILLING me! God dammit! Lord, I promise if you just give me 3 knots, I'll go to church every Sunday for the rest of my life.

Those are just a few of the things I can think of that make Racing Tasks very different from the OLC. And lest anyone accuse me of being a snob, remember that I started one of the very first Internet-enabled decentralized contests way back in 1997, a couple of years before the current OLC. I'm sold on the idea. I actively participate. My club's #1 in the OLC in the US. I'm just realistic that they are distant cousins on the family tree of XC Soaring.

P3

[Tony[_5_]]

On Feb 29, 5:58*pm, Sean Fidler > wrote:
> Thanks for the info Dave. *I thought I saw a presentation at the awards banquet at this months SSA convention that registered contest pilots was around 100 last year and that number had been in decline for roughly 10 years. *I think I have a photo somewhere.
>
> I prefer contest soaring by far personally. *I have restarted my local contest and strongly resisted the push of many to simply have an OLC contest instead. *That was a little to far for me even before I had ever flown a real contest.
>
> The OLC is too subjective when comparing flights in different locations or even same locations seperated by any significant period of time.
>
> That said, OLC scored contests would be an interesting concept to try one day soon. *It would be interesting to see if that concept would improve attendance somehow.
>
> Only so much time...maybe this fall I will organize this.

Sean,

you might have seen that there is a downward trend at nationals and
upward trend at regionals. total participation is steady though.

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Wednesday, February 29, 2012 8:30:10 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> On Feb 29, 5:58*pm, Sean Fidler > wrote:
> > Thanks for the info Dave. *I thought I saw a presentation at the awards banquet at this months SSA convention that registered contest pilots was around 100 last year and that number had been in decline for roughly 10 years. *I think I have a photo somewhere.
> >
> > I prefer contest soaring by far personally. *I have restarted my local contest and strongly resisted the push of many to simply have an OLC contest instead. *That was a little to far for me even before I had ever flown a real contest.
> >
> > The OLC is too subjective when comparing flights in different locations or even same locations seperated by any significant period of time.
> >
> > That said, OLC scored contests would be an interesting concept to try one day soon. *It would be interesting to see if that concept would improve attendance somehow.
> >
> > Only so much time...maybe this fall I will organize this.
>
> Sean,
>
> you might have seen that there is a downward trend at nationals and
> upward trend at regionals. total participation is steady though.

50 signed up for Perry with 20 on the waitlist. 35 already for 15 meter nationals at Mifflin with another 10 or so on the Regionals. So, there are certainly sites that do quite well...

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:11:39 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Some observations:
>
> OLC:
> Get in your glider and go as far as you can, as fast as you can. Start whenever you want. Turn in your file and you’re done. Before the flight you look at the weather and plan to use it to maximize your flight distance within the given local & conditions. 1000+ pilots. Very few rules. Growing.
>
> Contest Soaring:
> Register, fill out forms, insurance, etc, etc. Travel to the contest site. Go to the pilots meeting (safety, etc). Listen to the weather briefing.. Beforehand the CD and task committee have looked at the weather, terrain, etc and planned a task that takes the pilots into the best flying conditions possible. Grid and launch when told. Once in the air, at some point, the start gate is opened. Start whenever you want. Maximize your flight distance and speed in an AAT or MAT task (more and more common with handicap based classes, AT's are very rare) within the given condition’s as planned for you by the task committee. When done turn in your file. Lots of rules. Around 100 pilots. Declining attendance in general with the exception of a couple rare regional contests.
>
> I very much enjoy both modes. A have flown more in contests than OLC. But (based on the recent debates) when you think about it these two forms of glider competition are really much more similar than one might think in terms of flying challenge and actual process.
>
> Especially if you consider a group of friends flying on the same day and out of the same flying field.

I'll bite. Leaving aside logistics and all the other stuff, let's look at the differences around the competition on a given day:

Tasking:
- OLC: Get to the airport and see how it looks as you launch or maybe even after you get in the air. Head off in the best direction. If you don't don't like the looks after a few miles, head off in another direction. If that doesn't work, pick a third. Heck, if it doesn't look as good as you thought it would be, go back to the airport and practice low saves. You can always fly another day.

- Racing Task: Fly the task as determined by the CD and his/her competition comittee based on weather progged that morning and maybe (maybe not) updated at the time of launch. If there's a blue hole 20 miles out on the first leg, figure out whether to climb in weak lift before the blue hole or drive on through hoping for a low save on the far side. No turning back now. Oh, and that big cirrus shelf that moved in faster than predicted... cut now and run for the second turn or dive deep hoping the good conditions stay put for a little longer. Quit now or make a wrong decision and get hammered in the standings.

Turnpoint Strategy

- OLC: This last cloud looks like a great place to turn.

- Racing Task: The CD gave us a 20 mile radius TAT. Looks better to the West, but that cuts the second leg short. If I end up making better time than I thought on the second leg, I'll have to go deep into the notorious Swamp River sinkhole. Or, even worse, I cut all the turns too short and I'm 20 minutes early. At 60 Miles Per hour I threw away 20 miles that the other guys got. That's 10% on this 3 hour TAT. Goodbye 100 points...


Start Strategy
- OLC: Staying up nicely. Guess I'll head out.

- Racing Task: Okay, so I'm figuring on around 60mph today, with the day dying around 5:00. It's a 220 mile AAT, so I need to be on course by around 1:30 latest. But, none of these other guys seems to be starting. I sure don't want to be out there alone on a blue day. But I don't wanna play start gate roulette much longer. Please KS, take a start now.

Gaggle Flying

- OLC: My buddy Alpha Bravo caught up with, how nice. We can fly together now.

- Racing Task: That ******* Alpha Bravo started 20 minutes behind me and he caught up to me. If I stay with him the rest of the way, he's got me smoked. But if I head out alone, I run the risk of hitting the dirt. Damn. Where did KS gaggle go?


Final Glide

- OLC: I'm 30 miles out. Just hit a nice 3 knotter. Yeah, it's not the best thermal I've seen all day, but it's pretty good. What's another few minutes in the climb? Why risk soiling my shorts...

- Racing Task: I'm 30 miles out. Damn - best I can find is a 3 knotter. DJ says the way to go is to "bump up" to final glide. Well, I'm 2,000 low, but here goes nothin'...

Religion

- OLC: Down to 1,000 feet. Thank you God for that 1 knotter. Better hang on to this one for a while.

- Racing Task: Down to 1,000 feet. God dammit - can't you do better than 1 knot?! Those guys are KILLING me! God dammit! Lord, I promise if you just give me 3 knots, I'll go to church every Sunday for the rest of my life.

Those are just a few of the things I can think of that make Racing Tasks very different from the OLC. And lest anyone accuse me of being a snob, remember that I started one of the very first Internet-enabled decentralized contests way back in 1997, a couple of years before the current OLC. I'm sold on the idea. I actively participate. My club's #1 in the OLC in the US. I'm just realistic that they are distant cousins on the family tree of XC Soaring.

[Sean Fidler]

Im all for growth of SSA contests. We have 37 at ours (www.r6n.org) and expect to hit our max of 45 by mid March. Im not sure what the number was but the SSA leaders were very concerned about the numbers. If we are doing well, im truly glad to hear it.

Not to be overly pessimistic but I see alot of Regionals in the single digits. Agreed on Nationals declining. I think the handicapping will really improve things as would an east/west format.

In hope that some of the strengths of OLC type competition might be considered for SSA contests. I think simpler rules in general might be very attractive to newer or OLC and sometimes contest pilots. The FAI & SSA move to handicap classes is smart but reactive & not proactive. It is also quite late and needes to happen 5 yrs ago. I suspect a bolder move (simpler formats) might pay big dividends. Worth a try perhaps.

[Mike[_37_]]

On Feb 29, 6:49*pm, Papa3 > wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:11:39 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > Some observations:
>
> > OLC:
> > Get in your glider and go as far as you can, as fast as you can. *Start whenever you want. *Turn in your file and you’re done. *Before the flight you look at the weather and plan to use it to maximize your flight distance within the given local & conditions. *1000+ pilots. *Very few rules. *Growing.
>
> > Contest Soaring:
> > Register, fill out forms, insurance, etc, etc. *Travel to the contest site. *Go to the pilots meeting (safety, etc). *Listen to the weather briefing. *Beforehand the CD and task committee have looked at the weather, terrain, etc and planned a task that takes the pilots into the best flying conditions possible. *Grid and launch when told. * Once in the air, at some point, the start gate is opened. *Start whenever you want. *Maximize your flight distance and speed in an AAT or MAT task (more and more common with handicap based classes, AT's are very rare) within the given condition’s as planned for you by the task committee. *When done turn in your file. *Lots of rules. *Around 100 pilots. *Declining attendance in general with the exception of a couple rare regional contests.
>
> > I very much enjoy both modes. *A have flown more in contests than OLC.. *But (based on the recent debates) when you think about it these two forms of glider competition are really much more similar than one might think in terms of flying challenge and actual process.
>
> > Especially if you consider a group of friends flying on the same day and out of the same flying field.
>
> I'll bite. *Leaving aside logistics and all the other stuff, let's look at the differences around the competition on a given day:
>
> Tasking:
> - *OLC: Get to the airport and see how it looks as you launch or maybe even after you get in the air. *Head off in the best direction. * If you don't don't like the looks after a few miles, head off in another direction. *If that doesn't work, pick a third. Heck, if it doesn't look as good as you thought it would be, go back to the airport and practice low saves. * You can always fly another day.
>
> - *Racing Task: *Fly the task as determined by the CD and his/her competition comittee based on weather progged that morning and maybe (maybe not) updated at the time of launch. * *If there's a blue hole 20 miles out on the first leg, figure out whether to climb in weak lift before the blue hole or drive on through hoping for a low save on the far side. *No turning back now. * Oh, and that big cirrus shelf that moved in faster than predicted... cut now and run for the second turn or dive deep hoping the good conditions stay put for a little longer. * Quit now or make a wrong decision and get hammered in the standings.
>
> Turnpoint Strategy
>
> - *OLC: *This last cloud looks like a great place to turn.
>
> - *Racing Task: *The CD gave us a 20 mile radius TAT. *Looks better to the West, but that cuts the second leg short. *If I end up making better time than I thought on the second leg, I'll have to go deep into the notorious Swamp River sinkhole. *Or, even worse, I cut all the turns too short and I'm 20 minutes early. *At 60 Miles Per hour I threw away 20 miles that the other guys got. That's 10% on this 3 hour TAT. * Goodbye 100 points...
>
> Start Strategy
> - *OLC: *Staying up nicely. *Guess I'll head out.
>
> - *Racing Task: *Okay, so I'm figuring on around 60mph today, with the day dying around 5:00. *It's a 220 mile AAT, so I need to be on course by around 1:30 latest. *But, none of these other guys seems to be starting. *I sure don't want to be out there alone on a blue day. *But I don't wanna play start gate roulette much longer. *Please KS, take a start now..
>
> Gaggle Flying
>
> - *OLC: *My buddy Alpha Bravo caught up with, how nice. *We can fly together now.
>
> - *Racing Task: *That ******* Alpha Bravo started 20 minutes behind me and he caught up to me. *If I stay with him the rest of the way, he's got me smoked. But if I head out alone, I run the risk of hitting the dirt. *Damn. *Where did KS gaggle go?
>
> Final Glide
>
> - *OLC: *I'm 30 miles out. * Just hit a nice 3 knotter. *Yeah, it's not the best thermal I've seen all day, but it's pretty good. *What's another few minutes in the climb? *Why risk soiling my shorts...
>
> - *Racing Task: *I'm 30 miles out. * Damn - best I can find is a 3 knotter. *DJ says the way to go is to "bump up" to final glide. *Well, I'm 2,000 low, but here goes nothin'...
>
> Religion
>
> - *OLC: *Down to 1,000 feet. *Thank you God for that 1 knotter. *Better hang on to this one for a while.
>
> - *Racing Task: *Down to 1,000 feet. *God dammit - can't you do better than 1 knot?! *Those guys are KILLING me! *God dammit! * Lord, I promise if you just give me 3 knots, I'll go to church every Sunday for the rest of my life.
>
> Those are just a few of the things I can think of that make Racing Tasks very different from the OLC. *And lest anyone accuse me of being a snob, remember that I started one of the very first Internet-enabled decentralized contests way back in 1997, a couple of years before the current OLC. *I'm sold on the idea. *I actively participate. *My club's #1 in the OLC in the US. * I'm just realistic that they are distant cousins on the family tree of XC Soaring.

LOL!!

[Ramy]

On Feb 29, 6:34*pm, Mike > wrote:
> On Feb 29, 6:49*pm, Papa3 > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:11:39 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > > Some observations:
>
> > > OLC:
> > > Get in your glider and go as far as you can, as fast as you can. *Start whenever you want. *Turn in your file and you’re done. *Before the flight you look at the weather and plan to use it to maximize your flight distance within the given local & conditions. *1000+ pilots. *Very few rules. *Growing.
>
> > > Contest Soaring:
> > > Register, fill out forms, insurance, etc, etc. *Travel to the contest site. *Go to the pilots meeting (safety, etc). *Listen to the weather briefing. *Beforehand the CD and task committee have looked at the weather, terrain, etc and planned a task that takes the pilots into the best flying conditions possible. *Grid and launch when told. * Once in the air, at some point, the start gate is opened. *Start whenever you want. *Maximize your flight distance and speed in an AAT or MAT task (more and more common with handicap based classes, AT's are very rare) within the given condition’s as planned for you by the task committee. *When done turn in your file. *Lots of rules. *Around 100 pilots. *Declining attendance in general with the exception of a couple rare regional contests.
>
> > > I very much enjoy both modes. *A have flown more in contests than OLC. *But (based on the recent debates) when you think about it these two forms of glider competition are really much more similar than one might think in terms of flying challenge and actual process.
>
> > > Especially if you consider a group of friends flying on the same day and out of the same flying field.
>
> > I'll bite. *Leaving aside logistics and all the other stuff, let's look at the differences around the competition on a given day:
>
> > Tasking:
> > - *OLC: Get to the airport and see how it looks as you launch or maybe even after you get in the air. *Head off in the best direction. * If you don't don't like the looks after a few miles, head off in another direction. *If that doesn't work, pick a third. Heck, if it doesn't look as good as you thought it would be, go back to the airport and practice low saves. * You can always fly another day.
>
> > - *Racing Task: *Fly the task as determined by the CD and his/her competition comittee based on weather progged that morning and maybe (maybe not) updated at the time of launch. * *If there's a blue hole 20 miles out on the first leg, figure out whether to climb in weak lift before the blue hole or drive on through hoping for a low save on the far side. *No turning back now. * Oh, and that big cirrus shelf that moved in faster than predicted... cut now and run for the second turn or dive deep hoping the good conditions stay put for a little longer. * Quit now or make a wrong decision and get hammered in the standings.
>
> > Turnpoint Strategy
>
> > - *OLC: *This last cloud looks like a great place to turn.
>
> > - *Racing Task: *The CD gave us a 20 mile radius TAT. *Looks better to the West, but that cuts the second leg short. *If I end up making better time than I thought on the second leg, I'll have to go deep into the notorious Swamp River sinkhole. *Or, even worse, I cut all the turns too short and I'm 20 minutes early. *At 60 Miles Per hour I threw away 20 miles that the other guys got. That's 10% on this 3 hour TAT. * Goodbye 100 points...
>
> > Start Strategy
> > - *OLC: *Staying up nicely. *Guess I'll head out.
>
> > - *Racing Task: *Okay, so I'm figuring on around 60mph today, with the day dying around 5:00. *It's a 220 mile AAT, so I need to be on course by around 1:30 latest. *But, none of these other guys seems to be starting. *I sure don't want to be out there alone on a blue day. *But I don't wanna play start gate roulette much longer. *Please KS, take a start now.
>
> > Gaggle Flying
>
> > - *OLC: *My buddy Alpha Bravo caught up with, how nice. *We can fly together now.
>
> > - *Racing Task: *That ******* Alpha Bravo started 20 minutes behind me and he caught up to me. *If I stay with him the rest of the way, he's got me smoked. But if I head out alone, I run the risk of hitting the dirt.. *Damn. *Where did KS gaggle go?
>
> > Final Glide
>
> > - *OLC: *I'm 30 miles out. * Just hit a nice 3 knotter. *Yeah, it's not the best thermal I've seen all day, but it's pretty good. *What's another few minutes in the climb? *Why risk soiling my shorts...
>
> > - *Racing Task: *I'm 30 miles out. * Damn - best I can find is a 3 knotter. *DJ says the way to go is to "bump up" to final glide. *Well, I'm 2,000 low, but here goes nothin'...
>
> > Religion
>
> > - *OLC: *Down to 1,000 feet. *Thank you God for that 1 knotter. *Better hang on to this one for a while.
>
> > - *Racing Task: *Down to 1,000 feet. *God dammit - can't you do better than 1 knot?! *Those guys are KILLING me! *God dammit! * Lord, I promise if you just give me 3 knots, I'll go to church every Sunday for the rest of my life.
>
> > Those are just a few of the things I can think of that make Racing Tasks very different from the OLC. *And lest anyone accuse me of being a snob, remember that I started one of the very first Internet-enabled decentralized contests way back in 1997, a couple of years before the current OLC. *I'm sold on the idea. *I actively participate. *My club's #1 in the OLC in the US. * I'm just realistic that they are distant cousins on the family tree of XC Soaring.
>
> LOL!!

LOL indeed!
And as an avid OLC participant, I couldn't agree more. It is very
different from racing tasks. This is why I like it more...

Ramy

[Sean Fidler]

[ASM]

On Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:58:56 PM UTC-8, noel.wade wrote:
> On Feb 29, 2:18*pm, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
> > > I very much enjoy both modes...
> >
> > It doesn't sound that way from the way you've described it.
> >
> > Thanks, Bob K.
>
> Bob -
>
> You're a tech/web-savvy guy, so I know you can figure out this
> acronym: DNFTT. :-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Noel

Noel,

And your point is?

Jacek

[Papa3[_2_]]

And just in case anyone needed further proof that OLC Pilots and Racing Pilots are different: http://tinyurl.com/7j6b7mq

[Sean Fidler]

On Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:28:46 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> And just in case anyone needed further proof that OLC Pilots and Racing Pilots are different: http://tinyurl.com/7j6b7mq

Exactly my point...

Why are OLC pilots somehow targets? Wow....

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:43:38 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> On Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:28:46 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> > And just in case anyone needed further proof that OLC Pilots and Racing Pilots are different: http://tinyurl.com/7j6b7mq
>
> Exactly my point...
>
> Why are OLC pilots somehow targets? Wow....

Wow. Just wow. I hearby rename you Cameron. Free back seat ride on the ridge to first person to figure out the reference. Anyone? Anyone?

[S. Murry]

On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 22:18:16 -0600, Papa3 > wrote:


"Pardon my French, but Cameron is so tight that if you stuck a lump of
coal up his ass, in two weeks you'd have a diamond."
--Ferris Bueller

Which Ridge?

--Stefan

> On Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:43:38 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
>> On Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:28:46 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
>> > And just in case anyone needed further proof that OLC Pilots and
>> Racing Pilots are different: http://tinyurl.com/7j6b7mq
>>
>> Exactly my point...
>>
>> Why are OLC pilots somehow targets? Wow....
>
> Wow. Just wow. I hearby rename you Cameron. Free back seat ride on
> the ridge to first person to figure out the reference. Anyone? Anyone?


--
Stefan Murry

[Papa3[_2_]]

Stefan,

Next time you're in New Jersey, look me up.

P3

[ASM]

On Thursday, March 1, 2012 8:18:16 PM UTC-8, Papa3 wrote:
> On Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:43:38 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:28:46 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> > > And just in case anyone needed further proof that OLC Pilots and Racing Pilots are different: http://tinyurl.com/7j6b7mq
> >
> > Exactly my point...
> >
> > Why are OLC pilots somehow targets? Wow....
>
> Wow. Just wow. I hearby rename you Cameron. Free back seat ride on the ridge to first person to figure out the reference. Anyone? Anyone?

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I can't answer it directly. If I did, the politically correct police would be chasing me for rest of my life.

Jacek

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:43:38 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> On Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:28:46 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> > And just in case anyone needed further proof that OLC Pilots and Racing Pilots are different: http://tinyurl.com/7j6b7mq
>
> Exactly my point...
>
> Why are OLC pilots somehow targets? Wow....

Hey Sean,

Having some good fun at your expense. You have to know the characters involved to understand the pictures and especially the comments. Bobby Templin and I have spent literally 100 hours together over the last few months working on a refinish project for our club Grob. I have the utmost respect for him, his flying, his intellect, and his contributions to our club and the sport (okay, maybe not for his choice of beer). The idea for this picture came up after a long afternoon of wet sanding while sitting around the wood stove yesterday with a group of the guys from Aero Club Albatross.

Picking on you was just keeping the gag going.

I thought the humor was self-evident. Sometimes, humor doesn't parse well over the Web I guess...

Sincerely,
P3

[Brad[_2_]]

On Mar 2, 8:34*am, Papa3 > wrote:
> On Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:43:38 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:28:46 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> > > And just in case anyone needed further proof that OLC Pilots and Racing Pilots are different: *http://tinyurl.com/7j6b7mq
>
> > Exactly my point...
>
> > Why are OLC pilots somehow targets? *Wow....
>
> Hey Sean,
>
> Having some good fun at your expense. You have to know the characters involved to understand the pictures and especially the comments. * Bobby Templin and I have spent literally 100 hours together over the last few months working on a refinish project for our club Grob. * I have the utmost respect for him, his flying, his intellect, and his contributions to our club and the sport (okay, maybe not for his choice of beer). * The idea for this picture came up after a long afternoon of wet sanding while sitting around the wood stove yesterday with a group of the guys from Aero Club Albatross.
>
> Picking on you was just keeping the gag going.
>
> I thought the humor was self-evident. * Sometimes, humor doesn't parse well over the Web I guess...
>
> Sincerely,
> P3

I wondered about all that dust around his face...............now I
know!

Are you sure he flies the rattiest LS-3 around? My buddy Ron Clark
flies an LS-3 that might give Bob some competition, Ron's LS-3, while
not even a 6 footer, regularly kicks our butt on the OLC up here in
Washington.

Brad

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Friday, March 2, 2012 11:48:54 AM UTC-5, Brad wrote:
> On Mar 2, 8:34*am, Papa3 > wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:43:38 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > > On Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:28:46 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> > > > And just in case anyone needed further proof that OLC Pilots and Racing Pilots are different: *http://tinyurl.com/7j6b7mq
> >
> > > Exactly my point...
> >
> > > Why are OLC pilots somehow targets? *Wow....
> >
> > Hey Sean,
> >
> > Having some good fun at your expense. You have to know the characters involved to understand the pictures and especially the comments. * Bobby Templin and I have spent literally 100 hours together over the last few months working on a refinish project for our club Grob. * I have the utmost respect for him, his flying, his intellect, and his contributions to our club and the sport (okay, maybe not for his choice of beer). * The idea for this picture came up after a long afternoon of wet sanding while sitting around the wood stove yesterday with a group of the guys from Aero Club Albatross.
> >
> > Picking on you was just keeping the gag going.
> >
> > I thought the humor was self-evident. * Sometimes, humor doesn't parse well over the Web I guess...
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > P3
>
> I wondered about all that dust around his face...............now I
> know!
>
> Are you sure he flies the rattiest LS-3 around? My buddy Ron Clark
> flies an LS-3 that might give Bob some competition, Ron's LS-3, while
> not even a 6 footer, regularly kicks our butt on the OLC up here in
> Washington.
>
> Brad

I'd be willing to bet a 30 pack of Bush Beer on it! (think aluminum gear doors pounded out a few dozen times after landouts, black duct-tape, surface finish approximating a dry lake bed - you get the picture). Maybe the secret to being at the top of the OLC is to fly a ratty LS3?

[Sean Fidler]

no problem. glad to hear it.

On Friday, March 2, 2012 11:34:23 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> On Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:43:38 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:28:46 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> > > And just in case anyone needed further proof that OLC Pilots and Racing Pilots are different: http://tinyurl.com/7j6b7mq
> >
> > Exactly my point...
> >
> > Why are OLC pilots somehow targets? Wow....
>
> Hey Sean,
>
> Having some good fun at your expense. You have to know the characters involved to understand the pictures and especially the comments. Bobby Templin and I have spent literally 100 hours together over the last few months working on a refinish project for our club Grob. I have the utmost respect for him, his flying, his intellect, and his contributions to our club and the sport (okay, maybe not for his choice of beer). The idea for this picture came up after a long afternoon of wet sanding while sitting around the wood stove yesterday with a group of the guys from Aero Club Albatross.
>
> Picking on you was just keeping the gag going.
>
> I thought the humor was self-evident. Sometimes, humor doesn't parse well over the Web I guess...
>
> Sincerely,
> P3

[Brad[_2_]]

On Mar 2, 9:06*am, Papa3 > wrote:
> On Friday, March 2, 2012 11:48:54 AM UTC-5, Brad wrote:
> > On Mar 2, 8:34*am, Papa3 > wrote:
> > > On Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:43:38 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:28:46 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> > > > > And just in case anyone needed further proof that OLC Pilots and Racing Pilots are different: *http://tinyurl.com/7j6b7mq
>
> > > > Exactly my point...
>
> > > > Why are OLC pilots somehow targets? *Wow....
>
> > > Hey Sean,
>
> > > Having some good fun at your expense. You have to know the characters involved to understand the pictures and especially the comments. * Bobby Templin and I have spent literally 100 hours together over the last few months working on a refinish project for our club Grob. * I have the utmost respect for him, his flying, his intellect, and his contributions to our club and the sport (okay, maybe not for his choice of beer). * The idea for this picture came up after a long afternoon of wet sanding while sitting around the wood stove yesterday with a group of the guys from Aero Club Albatross.
>
> > > Picking on you was just keeping the gag going.
>
> > > I thought the humor was self-evident. * Sometimes, humor doesn't parse well over the Web I guess...
>
> > > Sincerely,
> > > P3
>
> > I wondered about all that dust around his face...............now I
> > know!
>
> > Are you sure he flies the rattiest LS-3 around? My buddy Ron Clark
> > flies an LS-3 that might give Bob some competition, Ron's LS-3, while
> > not even a 6 footer, regularly kicks our butt on the OLC up here in
> > Washington.
>
> > Brad
>
> I'd be willing to bet a 30 pack of Bush Beer on it! (think aluminum gear doors pounded out a few dozen times after landouts, *black duct-tape, *surface finish approximating a dry lake bed - you get the picture). * Maybe the secret to being at the top of the OLC is to fly a ratty LS3?

Make it Busch Ice beer and you're on!

Hey, we are thinking about hosting a mountain soaring expedition
towards end of summer up here in Washington..........have Bob bring
that bird up here and we'll see!

Oh, and the locals love Busch beer too!

Brad

[Tony[_5_]]

oh great beer snobbery has reached RAS :) Michelob Golden Light for
me!

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Friday, March 2, 2012 1:43:50 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> oh great beer snobbery has reached RAS :) Michelob Golden Light for
> me!

We'll go as low as Iron City Light. Not a single rung lower...

[John Carlyle]

On Friday, March 2, 2012 5:43:48 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> We'll go as low as Iron City Light. Not a single rung lower...

And there is a rung lower - Tech Beer. IC was nectar compared to Tech...

-John

[S. Murry]

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:48:23 -0600, John Carlyle >
wrote:

According to Beer Advocate, Iron City Beer scored a 2.56 (out of 5). My
personal favorite is Olympia Gold, which scored a 1.28, with such glowing
reviews as:

" Pours clear yellow, kind of a bubbly head that collapses in the middle..
Smells like leaves floating in a stagnant pond. Sour, bitter, funky flavor
that is dominated by corn and ass. I won't even boil my brats in this
swill."

and

"In my junior year of high school, my friend stole one of his mother’s
beers from the fridge when we dropped by his house on lunch break. This
was one of the biggest adolescent mistakes we ever made (and we made a
lot). Oly Gold is about as bad as it gets. I can’t believe it’s still out
there."

Last time I bought a case, it was less that $10 for 24 cans. And worth
every penny.

--Stefan


> On Friday, March 2, 2012 5:43:48 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
>> We'll go as low as Iron City Light. Not a single rung lower...
>
> And there is a rung lower - Tech Beer. IC was nectar compared to Tech....
>
> -John