Mid-air glider accidents [Archive]

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Mike I Green

March 17th 12, 12:29 AM

I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air
accidents. Not successful.

Can anyone help me?

--
Mike I Green MG

T[_2_]

March 17th 12, 02:02 AM

On Mar 16, 5:29*pm, Mike I Green > wrote:
> I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air
> accidents. * Not successful.
>
> Can anyone help me?
>
>
> --
> Mike I Green *MG

You can do a search of the database for all glider accidents and have
to reduce the data from there, one of the columns should indicate,
midair or other type.
Are you looking for glider on glider? Glider vs. tow? Glider vs other
powered aircraft?

T

Mike I Green

March 17th 12, 06:24 AM

On 3/16/2012 7:02 PM, T wrote:
> On Mar 16, 5:29 pm, Mike I > wrote:
>> I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air
>> accidents. Not successful.
>>
>> Can anyone help me?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mike I Green MG
>
> You can do a search of the database for all glider accidents and have
> to reduce the data from there, one of the columns should indicate,
> midair or other type.
> Are you looking for glider on glider? Glider vs. tow? Glider vs other
> powered aircraft?
>
> T
Hi T,

I was hoping to do a search on glider on glider mid-airs, by year. I
don't have time to look at every accident report from the 60's to the
present.

Thanks anyway,

MG
--
Mike I Green

Marc

March 17th 12, 06:34 AM

On Mar 16, 5:29*pm, Mike I Green > wrote:
> I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air
> accidents. * Not successful.
>
> Can anyone help me?
>
>
> --
> Mike I Green *MG

Given my great respect for Mighty Gorilla, I figured I'd give it a
shot. The NTSB database does not have a direct way of identifying
midair collisions, so I took the indirect approach of writing a
program to find sets of incidents with matching dates and locations,
which yielded roughly 2500 records. I tossed out those prior to 1982,
as the records get a bit wonky. Aircraft category is often omitted or
incorrect, so the only option was to look through the remaining ~1200
records for glider-sounding names. I may have missed a few, but I
pretty much found all of ones I remember. I found 15 collisions
glider with glider, 5 glider with tow plane, and 6 glider with other
airplanes, resulting in 22 fatalities. First column is NTSB accident
number for one of the aircraft involved (not necessarily a glider):

Glider with glider

CEN10LA459A 08/04/2010 Batesville, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS-2B
ALEXANDER SCHLEICHER GMBH & CO ASW 27-18
WPR10LA294B 06/15/2010 Parowan, UT SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS 2CT SCHLEICHER
ALEXANDER GMBH & CO ASH 26 E
DEN08LA137A 08/09/2008 Brackettville, TX Schempp-Hirth Ventus 2A AB
Sportine Aviacija Genesis 2
SEA04LA063A 04/01/2004 Oso, WA Glasflugel STD Libelle 201B Glaser-
Dirks DG-400
IAD99FA041A 05/01/1999 HILLTOWN, PA Cessna 305A Burkhart Grob G-103
TWIN II
FTW96FA279A 06/29/1996 BOULDER, CO PREVATT RV-6 Burkhart Grob G103C
TWIN III ACRO
FTW91FA131A 07/31/1991 MEDINA, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH DISCUS-B PZL-Mielec
55-1
CHI91FA212A 07/07/1991 HINCKLEY, IL CENTRAIR PEGASUS 101B SLINGSBY
KESTREL 19
SEA88LA128A 07/12/1988 MINDEN, NV Schempp-Hirth DISCUS B Schempp-Hirth
DISCUS A
NYC88LA125A 04/09/1988 FAIRFIELD, PA SCHLEICHER ASW-20 SCHLEICHER
ASW-20
ATL88LA149A 04/22/1988 CHESTER, SC Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 Cirrus
Design Corp. STANDARD
NYC86FA114A 04/28/1986 JULIAN, PA Glaser-Dirks DIRK-DG-400 SCHWEIZER
SGS-1-26B
SEA84FA172A 07/12/1984 EPHRATA, WA Schempp-Hirth VENTUS A SCHLEICHER
ASW 20 B
SEA84LA159A 07/03/1984 EPHRATA, WA APPLEBAY SAILPLANES ZUNI II
SCHLEICHER ASW-20
LAX83FA242A 05/22/1983 BRIDGEPORT, CA Schempp-Hirth STANDARD CIRRUS
SCHEMPP-HIRTH STANDARD CIRRUS
LAX82DA335A 09/05/1982 CALIFORNIA CITY, CA SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS
SCHLEICHER ASW-20
LAX82FA136B 04/15/1982 TULARE, CA BURKHART GROB FLUGZEUGBAH SPEED
ASTIR II SCHLEICHER ASW-20

Glider with tow plane

WPR10FA068A 11/28/2009 Middletown, CA SCHLEICHER ASW-27 PIPER
PA-25-235
LAX08LA254A 08/02/2008 Jean, NV SCHWEIZER SGS 2-33A PIPER PA-25-235
LAX87LA224A 05/30/1987 FREMONT, CA BELLANCA 7KCAB SCHWEIZER SGS 2-32
CHI84FA225A 06/09/1984 STANTON, MN SCHLEICHER AS-K13 PIPER PA-18A

Glider with other airplane

LAX06FA277A 08/28/2006 Smith, NV Raytheon Hawker 800XP Schleicher
ASW27-18
LAX99LA204A 05/30/1999 MESA, AZ Cessna 172P HOAC Austria HK 36R SUPER
DIMONA
ANC04FA016A 12/28/2003 Peoria, AZ Piper J3C-65 Schleicher ASK-21
MIA99LA051A 12/19/1998 OKEECHOBEE, FL Cessna 172M Let L-13
LAX86MA186A 04/20/1986 WARNER SPRINGS, CA LTV AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES A7E
Rolladen-Schneider LS-4

Marc

Marc

March 17th 12, 06:45 AM

On Mar 16, 11:34*pm, Marc > wrote:
> On Mar 16, 5:29*pm, Mike I Green > wrote:
>
> > I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air
> > accidents. * Not successful.
>
> > Can anyone help me?
>
> >
> > --
> > Mike I Green *MG
>
> Given my great respect for Mighty Gorilla, I figured I'd give it a
> shot. *The NTSB database does not have a direct way of identifying
> midair collisions, so I took the indirect approach of writing a
> program to find sets of incidents with matching dates and locations,
> which yielded roughly 2500 records. *I tossed out those prior to 1982,
> as the records get a bit wonky. *Aircraft category is often omitted or
> incorrect, so the only option was to look through the remaining ~1200
> records for glider-sounding names. *I may have missed a few, but I
> pretty much found all of ones I remember. *I found 15 collisions
> glider with glider, 5 glider with tow plane, and 6 glider with other
> airplanes, resulting in 22 fatalities. *First column is NTSB accident
> number for one of the aircraft involved (not necessarily a glider):

Wrong version of the list, try again:

Glider with glider

CEN10LA459A 08/04/2010 Batesville, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS-2B
ALEXANDER SCHLEICHER GMBH & CO ASW 27-18
WPR10LA294B 06/15/2010 Parowan, UT SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS 2CT SCHLEICHER
ALEXANDER GMBH & CO ASH 26 E
DEN08LA137A 08/09/2008 Brackettville, TX Schempp-Hirth Ventus 2A AB
Sportine Aviacija Genesis 2
SEA04LA063A 04/01/2004 Oso, WA Glasflugel STD Libelle 201B Glaser-
Dirks DG-400
FTW91FA131A 07/31/1991 MEDINA, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH DISCUS-B PZL-Mielec
55-1
CHI91FA212A 07/07/1991 HINCKLEY, IL CENTRAIR PEGASUS 101B SLINGSBY
KESTREL 19
SEA88LA128A 07/12/1988 MINDEN, NV Schempp-Hirth DISCUS B Schempp-Hirth
DISCUS A
NYC88LA125A 04/09/1988 FAIRFIELD, PA SCHLEICHER ASW-20 SCHLEICHER
ASW-20
ATL88LA149A 04/22/1988 CHESTER, SC Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 Cirrus
Design Corp. STANDARD
NYC86FA114A 04/28/1986 JULIAN, PA Glaser-Dirks DIRK-DG-400 SCHWEIZER
SGS-1-26B
SEA84FA172A 07/12/1984 EPHRATA, WA Schempp-Hirth VENTUS A SCHLEICHER
ASW 20 B
SEA84LA159A 07/03/1984 EPHRATA, WA APPLEBAY SAILPLANES ZUNI II
SCHLEICHER ASW-20
LAX83FA242A 05/22/1983 BRIDGEPORT, CA Schempp-Hirth STANDARD CIRRUS
SCHEMPP-HIRTH STANDARD CIRRUS
LAX82DA335A 09/05/1982 CALIFORNIA CITY, CA SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS
SCHLEICHER ASW-20
LAX82FA136B 04/15/1982 TULARE, CA BURKHART GROB FLUGZEUGBAH SPEED
ASTIR II SCHLEICHER ASW-20

Glider with tow plane

WPR10FA068A 11/28/2009 Middletown, CA SCHLEICHER ASW-27 PIPER
PA-25-235
LAX08LA254A 08/02/2008 Jean, NV SCHWEIZER SGS 2-33A PIPER PA-25-235
IAD99FA041A 05/01/1999 HILLTOWN, PA Cessna 305A Burkhart Grob G-103
TWIN II
LAX87LA224A 05/30/1987 FREMONT, CA BELLANCA 7KCAB SCHWEIZER SGS 2-32
CHI84FA225A 06/09/1984 STANTON, MN SCHLEICHER AS-K13 PIPER PA-18A

Glider with other airplane

LAX06FA277A 08/28/2006 Smith, NV Raytheon Hawker 800XP Schleicher
ASW27-18
LAX99LA204A 05/30/1999 MESA, AZ Cessna 172P HOAC Austria HK 36R SUPER
DIMONA
ANC04FA016A 12/28/2003 Peoria, AZ Piper J3C-65 Schleicher ASK-21
MIA99LA051A 12/19/1998 OKEECHOBEE, FL Cessna 172M Let L-13
FTW96FA279A 06/29/1996 BOULDER, CO PREVATT RV-6 Burkhart Grob G103C
TWIN III ACRO
LAX86MA186A 04/20/1986 WARNER SPRINGS, CA LTV AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES A7E
Rolladen-Schneider LS-4

Mike I Green

March 17th 12, 02:37 PM

On 3/16/2012 11:45 PM, Marc wrote:
> On Mar 16, 11:34 pm, > wrote:
>> On Mar 16, 5:29 pm, Mike I > wrote:
>>
>>> I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air
>>> accidents. Not successful.
>>
>>> Can anyone help me?
>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike I Green MG
>>
>> Given my great respect for Mighty Gorilla, I figured I'd give it a
>> shot. The NTSB database does not have a direct way of identifying
>> midair collisions, so I took the indirect approach of writing a
>> program to find sets of incidents with matching dates and locations,
>> which yielded roughly 2500 records. I tossed out those prior to 1982,
>> as the records get a bit wonky. Aircraft category is often omitted or
>> incorrect, so the only option was to look through the remaining ~1200
>> records for glider-sounding names. I may have missed a few, but I
>> pretty much found all of ones I remember. I found 15 collisions
>> glider with glider, 5 glider with tow plane, and 6 glider with other
>> airplanes, resulting in 22 fatalities. First column is NTSB accident
>> number for one of the aircraft involved (not necessarily a glider):
>
> Wrong version of the list, try again:
>
> Glider with glider
>
> CEN10LA459A 08/04/2010 Batesville, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS-2B
> ALEXANDER SCHLEICHER GMBH& CO ASW 27-18
> WPR10LA294B 06/15/2010 Parowan, UT SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS 2CT SCHLEICHER
> ALEXANDER GMBH& CO ASH 26 E
> DEN08LA137A 08/09/2008 Brackettville, TX Schempp-Hirth Ventus 2A AB
> Sportine Aviacija Genesis 2
> SEA04LA063A 04/01/2004 Oso, WA Glasflugel STD Libelle 201B Glaser-
> Dirks DG-400
> FTW91FA131A 07/31/1991 MEDINA, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH DISCUS-B PZL-Mielec
> 55-1
> CHI91FA212A 07/07/1991 HINCKLEY, IL CENTRAIR PEGASUS 101B SLINGSBY
> KESTREL 19
> SEA88LA128A 07/12/1988 MINDEN, NV Schempp-Hirth DISCUS B Schempp-Hirth
> DISCUS A
> NYC88LA125A 04/09/1988 FAIRFIELD, PA SCHLEICHER ASW-20 SCHLEICHER
> ASW-20
> ATL88LA149A 04/22/1988 CHESTER, SC Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 Cirrus
> Design Corp. STANDARD
> NYC86FA114A 04/28/1986 JULIAN, PA Glaser-Dirks DIRK-DG-400 SCHWEIZER
> SGS-1-26B
> SEA84FA172A 07/12/1984 EPHRATA, WA Schempp-Hirth VENTUS A SCHLEICHER
> ASW 20 B
> SEA84LA159A 07/03/1984 EPHRATA, WA APPLEBAY SAILPLANES ZUNI II
> SCHLEICHER ASW-20
> LAX83FA242A 05/22/1983 BRIDGEPORT, CA Schempp-Hirth STANDARD CIRRUS
> SCHEMPP-HIRTH STANDARD CIRRUS
> LAX82DA335A 09/05/1982 CALIFORNIA CITY, CA SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS
> SCHLEICHER ASW-20
> LAX82FA136B 04/15/1982 TULARE, CA BURKHART GROB FLUGZEUGBAH SPEED
> ASTIR II SCHLEICHER ASW-20
>
> Glider with tow plane
>
> WPR10FA068A 11/28/2009 Middletown, CA SCHLEICHER ASW-27 PIPER
> PA-25-235
> LAX08LA254A 08/02/2008 Jean, NV SCHWEIZER SGS 2-33A PIPER PA-25-235
> IAD99FA041A 05/01/1999 HILLTOWN, PA Cessna 305A Burkhart Grob G-103
> TWIN II
> LAX87LA224A 05/30/1987 FREMONT, CA BELLANCA 7KCAB SCHWEIZER SGS 2-32
> CHI84FA225A 06/09/1984 STANTON, MN SCHLEICHER AS-K13 PIPER PA-18A
>
> Glider with other airplane
>
> LAX06FA277A 08/28/2006 Smith, NV Raytheon Hawker 800XP Schleicher
> ASW27-18
> LAX99LA204A 05/30/1999 MESA, AZ Cessna 172P HOAC Austria HK 36R SUPER
> DIMONA
> ANC04FA016A 12/28/2003 Peoria, AZ Piper J3C-65 Schleicher ASK-21
> MIA99LA051A 12/19/1998 OKEECHOBEE, FL Cessna 172M Let L-13
> FTW96FA279A 06/29/1996 BOULDER, CO PREVATT RV-6 Burkhart Grob G103C
> TWIN III ACRO
> LAX86MA186A 04/20/1986 WARNER SPRINGS, CA LTV AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES A7E
> Rolladen-Schneider LS-4
>
Marc - the respect is mutual and thanks.

If you need a old winch driver, I am available.

MG

MG

--
Mike I Green

Bob Kuykendall

March 17th 12, 03:26 PM

Here's one more:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20001208X06780&key=2

> ...The Aero Commander 690, N840DC, collided with the Grob
> 102 glider, N22ZB, while climbing through 10,000 feet msl 4
> miles south of the airport...

Thanks, Bob K.

Marc

March 17th 12, 08:21 PM

On Mar 17, 8:26*am, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
> Here's one more:
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20001208X06780&key=2
>
> > ...The Aero Commander 690, N840DC, collided with the Grob
> > 102 glider, N22ZB, while climbing through 10,000 feet msl 4
> > miles south of the airport...
>

Absolute brain fade on my part, since I knew the guy. There was
another one I missed just below it in my unfiltered list:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20001208X06698&key=1

The list is longer than I would have guessed, although the absolute
numbers of glider to glider collisions seem to be dropping as we have
fewer large contests. Given the numbers of collisions in general
aviation overall, it's quite sad the FAA has done such a crappy job
with the ADS-B rollout...

Marc

[email protected]

March 19th 12, 09:25 AM

On Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:21:54 PM UTC-7, Marc wrote:
> On Mar 17, 8:26*am, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
> > Here's one more:
> >
> > http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20001208X06780&key=2
> >

I'd love to know additional details of the circumstances for each. Particularly factors such as contest or not, major airport nearby or not, in traffic pattern vs climb/descent vs cruise, straight flight vs thermalling, etc. While vigilance is always important it would be great to know if there is any consistent pattern to midairs, even if it's a small number in total. It's particularly useful in terms of driving PowerFlarm adoption. There is some thinking that contest flying represents the highest likelihood of midair per hour flown and that other gliders are the biggest threat. Does the data back up that notion?

From my incomplete personal recall of the collisions I know, it would appear that collisions between two gliders in a contest represent something like 20-30% of all midairs. I'd guess contest flying is less than 5% of all glider hours (any real data available?), so that would say that contest flying is at least four times as likely per hour of flight to result in a midair as any other glider flying and the main threat is another contestant. At first blush it appears a solid argument for PowerFlarm rentals focused on contests. Seems like towplanes might benefit too.

9B

John Cochrane[_2_]

March 19th 12, 12:28 PM

The contest midair situation is better than it looks. There were a
rash of midairs in the 1980s and 1991, then nothing until the recent
three.

One contributing factor is likely the decline (demise?) of the
assigned task. In the 1980s, we all flew together in one big gaggle.
Now we fly alone much more often. Interestingly, of the recent three
one was on an assigned task, and one was a mandatory MAT turnpoint.
Both these involved going in and out of a turnpoint with a nearly 180
degree course change.

There is more than Flarm to lowering the risks of midairs in contest
flying. And a lot more to midairs than contest flying.

John Cochrane