Fabric Work

[Doug]

OK. So I put a rock through the bottom of my horizontal stabilizer
landing my Husky up in Wyoming (hunting gophers). I repaired it with
duct tape which got me home, and I patched it with fabric and painted
it. It is about a 12" x 12" repair. My mechanic signed off on the
annual with the repair so it is airworthy. But...it's not cosmetically
so good. Now I think I can buy the fabric, fabric "tape", and manage
to take the piece off and re-fabric it. The part I am not sure of is
the painting. All I know is the final coats of paint will be what is
on the rest of the plane which is a polyurethane (the two part stuff),
PPG Insignia White. But what do I put on top of the fabric and before
the paint (silver etc)?

Has anyone ever painted fabric with a polyurethane? What are the steps
or where do I find out?

Thanks

[Badwater Bill]

On 24 Jan 2004 09:45:22 -0800, (Doug)
wrote:

>OK. So I put a rock through the bottom of my horizontal stabilizer
>landing my Husky up in Wyoming (hunting gophers). I repaired it with
>duct tape which got me home, and I patched it with fabric and painted
>it. It is about a 12" x 12" repair. My mechanic signed off on the
>annual with the repair so it is airworthy. But...it's not cosmetically
>so good. Now I think I can buy the fabric, fabric "tape", and manage
>to take the piece off and re-fabric it. The part I am not sure of is
>the painting. All I know is the final coats of paint will be what is
>on the rest of the plane which is a polyurethane (the two part stuff),
>PPG Insignia White. But what do I put on top of the fabric and before
>the paint (silver etc)?
>
>Has anyone ever painted fabric with a polyurethane? What are the steps
>or where do I find out?
>
>Thanks

Yes, I have. It's a bitch.

Put on your new patch. Glue it down good, let it set up overnight and
then heat shrink it. Shoot on enough clear to wet the weave real good
and let it dry. If you shoot too much, it will drip on you and you'll
have to sand it down after it sets up. Shoot one light coat just
enough to fill the weave. Let it set up for an hour or so. Then
shoot on silver to fill the weave as much as you like. I normally
only use about 2 cross coats on the bottom of the surfaces since the
sun never shines on them. The silver coats on the bottom side is more
for filling the weave. On the top surfaces I use at least 3 good
heavy cross coats because it is the silver coat that actually reflects
the ultraviolet that penetrates through the finish coats and destroys
the polyester fabric.

Anyway, after you get through with the silver coat, you paint the
final finish coat. Two-part polyurethane is a bitch because it won't
'tack' like other paint. You spray on a light fog coat and just let
it sit for 45 minutes. If you come back any sooner than that, it will
run on you, especially on a curved surface like a leading edge. Do it
when the wind isn't blowing or you'll have dust in it. Ideally, do it
in a paint booth, but a garage will work. Take a hose and hose out
the floor before you paint to get all the dirt out of there.
Otherwise you'll scuff it up and into your surface.

Don't get in a hurry to fill the fog coat too soon or it will run all
over the damn place. The two part stuff won't set up for a long time
(45 minutes to tack). It doesn't tack real quick and if it's cold,
forget it. Shoot in the first fill coat very thin. Wait another 45
minutes for it to kick off, then hit it again. Get about three cross
coats on it and you are done. Be sure the last coat flows out nicely
or it will look like **** when it cures. Pot life will be fine and is
a couple hours, maybe three. But, I mix up what I need at each shot.

A couple days later you can buff it out with some 1000 grit then some
buffing compound. It will look like glass. I finished my
scrach-built Minimax-1500 with it from Stitts. I hated working with
it but the finish was superb. However, I will never use it again.

I just shot my towncar with base coat-clear coat. Even a moron could
shoot that stuff and make it work out right. You might look into that
process before you take on two part poly-U. Don't they have a base
coat-clear coat process for airplanes? I think they do because a
buddy of mine was shooting that a couple years ago on Comanches he was
rebuilding. I think they have some stuff that Dupont makes that
rivals the flexibility of Emeron (which is not too flexible and cracks
in a few years).

Good luck. I just bought a new paint gun at Harbor Freight from China
that rivals the new $400 guns at the Dupont store. The damn thing
cost me $49 bucks. I shot my Lincoln Towncar with it and it did the
best job I've ever seen with any gun. It's the new high flow, low
pressure type. Nowadays, painting is so easy with all the nice new
materials they have and the new guns. Why would you ever want to
shoot 2-part polyurethane? I would rethink that myself.

Here is a shot of my Minimax in the driveway. Notice how shinny the
finish is.

BWB

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
(Doug) wrote:

> OK. So I put a rock through the bottom of my horizontal stabilizer
> landing my Husky up in Wyoming (hunting gophers). I repaired it with
> duct tape which got me home, and I patched it with fabric and painted
> it. It is about a 12" x 12" repair. My mechanic signed off on the
> annual with the repair so it is airworthy. But...it's not cosmetically
> so good. Now I think I can buy the fabric, fabric "tape", and manage
> to take the piece off and re-fabric it. The part I am not sure of is
> the painting. All I know is the final coats of paint will be what is
> on the rest of the plane which is a polyurethane (the two part stuff),
> PPG Insignia White. But what do I put on top of the fabric and before
> the paint (silver etc)?
>
> Has anyone ever painted fabric with a polyurethane? What are the steps
> or where do I find out?
>
> Thanks

YUP. You have to remove the poly in the area of the patch. Wet sanding
(with a block, preferably) is the way to go. Sand it down to the silver,
which is dope. If it is Stits, refer to their manual.

Make sure that you have at least 2" around the hole to attach the patch.
Brush some Super Seam on the newly-sanded area and apply the fabric
patch, using more Super Seam.

After it is dry, you may want to shrink the patch, using a steam iron,
on "wool." Do not try to shrink everything at once. Just a few passes
over the fabric should suffice.

Now, you brush on 2 coats of nitrate and sand the edges smooth. Spray a
coat of silver non-tautening butyrate and sand it almost completely off.
Repaet ontil you have a nice, smooth surface. Spray on at least 3 more
coats of silver, sanding lightly betwween coats. Do not sand the last
coat.

You are now ready for the poly.

You can blend in a poly repair, with 3M FinesseIt and PerfectIt, and
even wet sand poly, starting with about 600 grit, ending with 2000 grit,
then the polishing compound.

You will still be able to see the repair, but it will look good!

[jls]

"Badwater Bill" > wrote in message [...]of mine was
shooting that a couple years ago on Comanches he was
> rebuilding. I think they have some stuff that Dupont makes that
> rivals the flexibility of Emeron (which is not too flexible and cracks
> in a few years).

People who have been successful with Imron on a fabric aircraft add a
flexitive. I noticed that the latest literature on Stits, now Polyfiber,
declares the use of other paints on its fabric to be a violation of the STC.
Aerothane is most likely an automotive polyurethane to which a flexitive has
been added. As well as a whopping markup.

Billy shows signs of having breathed a lot of those polyisocyanates in
polyurethane, but not until after he wrote his tour de force on soaring with
the baby redtails.
>
> Good luck. I just bought a new paint gun at Harbor Freight from China
> that rivals the new $400 guns at the Dupont store. The damn thing
> cost me $49 bucks. I shot my Lincoln Towncar with it and it did the
> best job I've ever seen with any gun. It's the new high flow, low
> pressure type. Nowadays, painting is so easy with all the nice new
> materials they have and the new guns. Why would you ever want to
> shoot 2-part polyurethane? I would rethink that myself.
>
> Here is a shot of my Minimax in the driveway. Notice how shinny the
> finish is.
>
> BWB
>
>
>

[Tarver Engineering]

" jls" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Badwater Bill" > wrote in message [...]of mine
was
> shooting that a couple years ago on Comanches he was
> > rebuilding. I think they have some stuff that Dupont makes that
> > rivals the flexibility of Emeron (which is not too flexible and cracks
> > in a few years).
>
> People who have been successful with Imron on a fabric aircraft add a
> flexitive. I noticed that the latest literature on Stits, now Polyfiber,
> declares the use of other paints on its fabric to be a violation of the
STC.
> Aerothane is most likely an automotive polyurethane to which a flexitive
has
> been added. As well as a whopping markup.

An STC is not applicable to an experimantal.

[Doug]

Well, what you describe is pretty much what I did, albiet with less
than ideal workmanship. What I want to do now, if completely refabric
the horizontal stabilizer. If I mess with it again, I want to redo the
whole thing. Get it as right as it can be.

So what you are saying is 2 coats of nitrate, then 3 or even 4 of
silver. Then spray on the polyurethane?
Is there any way of looking at the existing piece and knowing what
THEY did? I want it to match the other fabric on the plane.

Orval Fairbairn > wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> (Doug) wrote:
>
> > OK. So I put a rock through the bottom of my horizontal stabilizer
> > landing my Husky up in Wyoming (hunting gophers). I repaired it with
> > duct tape which got me home, and I patched it with fabric and painted
> > it. It is about a 12" x 12" repair. My mechanic signed off on the
> > annual with the repair so it is airworthy. But...it's not cosmetically
> > so good. Now I think I can buy the fabric, fabric "tape", and manage
> > to take the piece off and re-fabric it. The part I am not sure of is
> > the painting. All I know is the final coats of paint will be what is
> > on the rest of the plane which is a polyurethane (the two part stuff),
> > PPG Insignia White. But what do I put on top of the fabric and before
> > the paint (silver etc)?
> >
> > Has anyone ever painted fabric with a polyurethane? What are the steps
> > or where do I find out?
> >
> > Thanks
>
> YUP. You have to remove the poly in the area of the patch. Wet sanding
> (with a block, preferably) is the way to go. Sand it down to the silver,
> which is dope. If it is Stits, refer to their manual.
>
> Make sure that you have at least 2" around the hole to attach the patch.
> Brush some Super Seam on the newly-sanded area and apply the fabric
> patch, using more Super Seam.
>
> After it is dry, you may want to shrink the patch, using a steam iron,
> on "wool." Do not try to shrink everything at once. Just a few passes
> over the fabric should suffice.
>
> Now, you brush on 2 coats of nitrate and sand the edges smooth. Spray a
> coat of silver non-tautening butyrate and sand it almost completely off.
> Repaet ontil you have a nice, smooth surface. Spray on at least 3 more
> coats of silver, sanding lightly betwween coats. Do not sand the last
> coat.
>
> You are now ready for the poly.
>
> You can blend in a poly repair, with 3M FinesseIt and PerfectIt, and
> even wet sand poly, starting with about 600 grit, ending with 2000 grit,
> then the polishing compound.
>
> You will still be able to see the repair, but it will look good!

[jls]

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> " jls" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> > "Badwater Bill" > wrote in message [...]of mine
> was
> > shooting that a couple years ago on Comanches he was
> > > rebuilding. I think they have some stuff that Dupont makes that
> > > rivals the flexibility of Emeron (which is not too flexible and cracks
> > > in a few years).
> >
> > People who have been successful with Imron on a fabric aircraft add a
> > flexitive. I noticed that the latest literature on Stits, now
Polyfiber,
> > declares the use of other paints on its fabric to be a violation of the
> STC.
> > Aerothane is most likely an automotive polyurethane to which a flexitive
> has
> > been added. As well as a whopping markup.
>
> An STC is not applicable to an experimantal.

I can't begin to tell you how correct you are. On the other hand reliance
on some certified aircraft standards may be helpful and produce safer
results. Steve Wittman may have been alive today had he not deviated from
the Stits method when covering his speedster, the O&O* Special.














*so named for Oshkosh and Ocala, Wittman's summer and winter homes. He
designed and built a bird to zip him up and down the continent at over 200
mph.

[Tarver Engineering]

" jls" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > " jls" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > >
> > > "Badwater Bill" > wrote in message [...]of
mine was
> > > shooting that a couple years ago on Comanches he was
> > > > rebuilding. I think they have some stuff that Dupont makes that
> > > > rivals the flexibility of Emeron (which is not too flexible and
cracks
> > > > in a few years).
> > >
> > > People who have been successful with Imron on a fabric aircraft add a
> > > flexitive. I noticed that the latest literature on Stits, now
Polyfiber,
> > > declares the use of other paints on its fabric to be a violation of
the STC.
> > > Aerothane is most likely an automotive polyurethane to which a
flexitive has
> > > been added. As well as a whopping markup.
> >
> > An STC is not applicable to an experimantal.
>
> I can't begin to tell you how correct you are. On the other hand
reliance
> on some certified aircraft standards may be helpful and produce safer
> results. Steve Wittman may have been alive today had he not deviated
from
> the Stits method when covering his speedster, the O&O* Special.

I recommend following the kit manufacturer's recomendations.

[Richard Lamb]

Doug wrote:
>
> OK. So I put a rock through the bottom of my horizontal stabilizer
> landing my Husky up in Wyoming (hunting gophers). I repaired it with
> duct tape which got me home, and I patched it with fabric and painted
> it. It is about a 12" x 12" repair. My mechanic signed off on the
> annual with the repair so it is airworthy. But...it's not cosmetically
> so good. Now I think I can buy the fabric, fabric "tape", and manage
> to take the piece off and re-fabric it. The part I am not sure of is
> the painting. All I know is the final coats of paint will be what is
> on the rest of the plane which is a polyurethane (the two part stuff),
> PPG Insignia White. But what do I put on top of the fabric and before
> the paint (silver etc)?
>
> Has anyone ever painted fabric with a polyurethane? What are the steps
> or where do I find out?
>
> Thanks

If you think you want to use polyurethane on fabric, and some people
do think that way, save yourself a lot of time and money and
do your research first.

Read up on Stits Aerothane.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
(Doug) wrote:

> Well, what you describe is pretty much what I did, albiet with less
> than ideal workmanship. What I want to do now, if completely refabric
> the horizontal stabilizer. If I mess with it again, I want to redo the
> whole thing. Get it as right as it can be.
>
> So what you are saying is 2 coats of nitrate, then 3 or even 4 of
> silver. Then spray on the polyurethane?

2 coats nitrate, BRUSHED on, then sanded smooth.
More than 3 or 4 coats silver, as you want to get everything smooth,
then more silver to block UV.

When everything looks good and smooth, then you are ready for the poly.


> Is there any way of looking at the existing piece and knowing what
> THEY did? I want it to match the other fabric on the plane.


See if lacquer thinner softens the base material. If it does, it is
probably dope. If the base cracks, it is something else.





> Orval Fairbairn > wrote in message
> >.
> ..
> > In article >,
> > (Doug) wrote:
> >
> > > OK. So I put a rock through the bottom of my horizontal stabilizer
> > > landing my Husky up in Wyoming (hunting gophers). I repaired it with
> > > duct tape which got me home, and I patched it with fabric and painted
> > > it. It is about a 12" x 12" repair. My mechanic signed off on the
> > > annual with the repair so it is airworthy. But...it's not cosmetically
> > > so good. Now I think I can buy the fabric, fabric "tape", and manage
> > > to take the piece off and re-fabric it. The part I am not sure of is
> > > the painting. All I know is the final coats of paint will be what is
> > > on the rest of the plane which is a polyurethane (the two part stuff),
> > > PPG Insignia White. But what do I put on top of the fabric and before
> > > the paint (silver etc)?
> > >
> > > Has anyone ever painted fabric with a polyurethane? What are the steps
> > > or where do I find out?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> >
> > YUP. You have to remove the poly in the area of the patch. Wet sanding
> > (with a block, preferably) is the way to go. Sand it down to the silver,
> > which is dope. If it is Stits, refer to their manual.
> >
> > Make sure that you have at least 2" around the hole to attach the patch.
> > Brush some Super Seam on the newly-sanded area and apply the fabric
> > patch, using more Super Seam.
> >
> > After it is dry, you may want to shrink the patch, using a steam iron,
> > on "wool." Do not try to shrink everything at once. Just a few passes
> > over the fabric should suffice.
> >
> > Now, you brush on 2 coats of nitrate and sand the edges smooth. Spray a
> > coat of silver non-tautening butyrate and sand it almost completely off.
> > Repaet ontil you have a nice, smooth surface. Spray on at least 3 more
> > coats of silver, sanding lightly betwween coats. Do not sand the last
> > coat.
> >
> > You are now ready for the poly.
> >
> > You can blend in a poly repair, with 3M FinesseIt and PerfectIt, and
> > even wet sand poly, starting with about 600 grit, ending with 2000 grit,
> > then the polishing compound.
> >
> > You will still be able to see the repair, but it will look good!