Question on medical and kidney stones

[nospam]

About a year ago I passed a kidney stone. I know it passed because I
saw it, and I know it was the only stone because I've had two
ultrasounds: one on the night it passed showing just one stone, and
another several months later showing no stones. My 3rd class medical
expires in spring of 2004.

I do NOT want to "beat" the medical. If I have a retained stone I don't
wanna be the sole pilot in a plane, because I know what they can do to
you when they pass. The one I passed last year was my first one ever
and it hit me about 3 hours before I was scheduled to fly solo. I was
very lucky it hit when it did. That's why I went back for another
ultrasound several months later.

However I want to be prepared for my medical without doing excessive
tests or having excessive delays. I want to go in there with all the
records and required proof of being stone-free when I go for the
appointment, because I don't want any unnecessary delays. I read the
AOPA's page on this and they said I would need a "recent" ultrasound
showing no stones. I tried calling my AME to ask him but his office
has a voicemail system and I'm a little shy about leaving my name and
number for a callback for this. So some questions if any who have been
through this can answer:

1. Probably the best thing to do is to call my AME and ask him what I
need to do to prepare for this medical exam. But if I do this six
months before before medical expiration, could that have a bad effect?
Like could he say "you're grounded until I get an ultrasound" even
though I've had one showing I'm clear since then? btw, the reason I
need to know now is that I am doing my medical benefits for next year,
and if I'm going to need an expensive procedure, I want to set up my
flexible medical spending account for it.

2. Has anyone gotten insurance, specifically an HMO that requires a PCP
referral for all tests, to cover the ultrasound/IVP/whatever required
for this?

3. How "recent" does the ultrasound showing no stones have to be?

4. If I lose my medical temporarily (like if a retained stone is found
and I have towait for it to pass), could I still take instrument
training with a CFI and log the time as PIC?

5. Any other advice or war stories would be appreciated.


Thanks.

[Ron Natalie]

"nospam" > wrote in message ...

> However I want to be prepared for my medical without doing excessive
> tests or having excessive delays.

Here's what AOPA has to say about the topic (I post this here because I believe it is
directly lifted from the FAA guidelines):

a summary of your history of stones, including the date of diagnosis, method of treatment, current status, and prognosis for
recurrence; and
a report of recent ultrasound, IVP (intravenous pyelogram) or KUB (flat plate X-ray of the kidney, ureter, and bladder). If the
reports confirm the absence of stones, and there are no other complications, the medical examiner may issue the certificate.
Retained stones or a history of recurring stones is disqualifying for airman certification. The examiner should defer the
application to Oklahoma City for review. In most cases, certification will be withheld until evidence of successful treatment with
passage of the stone(s) is submitted to FAA. If the examiner defers the application, it may take six weeks or more before you hear
from Oklahoma City.

Bring the paperwork and it sounds like you will be OK.

> Probably the best thing to do is to call my AME and ask him what I
> need to do to prepare for this medical exam

Call AOPA's medical team. This is what they are there for (provided you are a member).

> Has anyone gotten insurance, specifically an HMO that requires a PCP
> referral for all tests, to cover the ultrasound/IVP/whatever required
> for this?

Depends on whether you can convince your doctor and the managed care that
the test is necessary. My insurance company didn't even bat an eye on the
the extra urinalysis I needed for one of my medicals. However, if it gets into
expensive tests (like the cardiac stuff the FAA wants if you have a history)
the FAA wants them more often than most of the rest of the medical industry
feels is justified.

> If I lose my medical temporarily (like if a retained stone is found
> and I have towait for it to pass), could I still take instrument
> training with a CFI and log the time as PIC?

Yes. As long as you hold a private certificate and you are the sole manipulator of the
controls you can log PIC. You can even go ahead and take your checkride provided the
examiner is willing to act as PIC. The only thing you pretty much end up not being able
to skudge by with the instructor/examiner being PIC is the solo requirements for the
commercial. The FAA dropped the requirements for medicals to take the checkride
a while ago.

> 5. Any other advice or war stories would be appreciated.

If the doctor is inclined to defer to OKC, try to avoid having him do this. Get him to
call the regional flight surgeon to see if they can work the issue out. OKC is a paperwork
cesspool.

[nospam]

Ron Natalie wrote:

> "nospam" > wrote in message ...
>
> Here's what AOPA has to say about the topic (I post this here because I believe it is
> directly lifted from the FAA guidelines):
>
> a summary of your history of stones, including the date of diagnosis, method of treatment, current status, and prognosis for
> recurrence; and
> a report of recent ultrasound,

I read that. My question, which I did not pose clearly was, "what is
'recent'"

> Call AOPA's medical team. This is what they are there for (provided you are a member).

I am a member, and was not aware of this benefit -- I knew about the
searchable info online, but didn't know there was a team I could call.
Thanks for pointing it out, I will give them a call.

Thanks for the other info, as well.

[Chris Ehlbeck]

Ron,

I can only speak for the cardiac end of testing but the FAA considers recent
to within the last 6 months.

Chris
--
I'm learning to fly! See what's going on.
www.home.bellsouth.net/p/pwp-cehlbeck

"nospam" > wrote in message
...
> Ron Natalie wrote:
>
> > "nospam" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > Here's what AOPA has to say about the topic (I post this here because I
believe it is
> > directly lifted from the FAA guidelines):
> >
> > a summary of your history of stones, including the date of diagnosis,
method of treatment, current status, and prognosis for
> > recurrence; and
> > a report of recent ultrasound,
>
> I read that. My question, which I did not pose clearly was, "what is
> 'recent'"
>
> > Call AOPA's medical team. This is what they are there for (provided you
are a member).
>
> I am a member, and was not aware of this benefit -- I knew about the
> searchable info online, but didn't know there was a team I could call.
> Thanks for pointing it out, I will give them a call.
>
> Thanks for the other info, as well.
>

[Steve P]

On 11/6/2003 7:00 AM after considerable forethought, nospam wrote:
> About a year ago I passed a kidney stone. I know it passed because I
> saw it, and I know it was the only stone because I've had two
> ultrasounds: one on the night it passed showing just one stone, and
> another several months later showing no stones. My 3rd class medical
> expires in spring of 2004.

<SNIP>

I had my initial medical bounced because of a kidney stone I'd had 18
months prior. My AME, wasn't too helpful at first... He just said he
couldn't issue the medical because of the stone and sent it to OKC.
After contacting OKC myself, I got my primary doc to contact my AME and
I had to go back for a follow-up exam with my primary doc and get a
statement that he'd prescribed a preventative program, that I was
following it, and there were no signs of reoccurrence. My primary doc
had experience with the FAA and knew the procedure, but it still took
about 6 weeks to get it all resolved.

Since then, I've listed the kidney stone and state "on file/no change or
reoccurrence". No subsequent certification from my primary have been
necessary. I've also found another AME.

So as the FAA seems to say, you need to be "certified" by your primary
doc that you are following a preventive program if necessary, and that
there are no signs of reoccurrence. I'd also check with the AME to see
if he can issue the medical certificate with that appropriate paperwork
from your primary, or if he still needs to send it to OKC for approval.
If the latter, I'd schedule my appt with the AME 6 to 8 weeks prior to
expiration of your current certificate.

Good luck

Steve P

[Ron Natalie]

"Steve P" > wrote in message . net...

> If the latter, I'd schedule my appt with the AME 6 to 8 weeks prior to
> expiration of your current certificate.

6-8 weeks won't cut it if it has to go to Joklahoma city.

[Steve P]

On 11/6/2003 9:03 AM after considerable forethought, Ron Natalie wrote:

> "Steve P" > wrote in message . net...
>
>
>> If the latter, I'd schedule my appt with the AME 6 to 8 weeks prior to
>>expiration of your current certificate.
>
>
> 6-8 weeks won't cut it if it has to go to Joklahoma city.
>
>

That's all it took for me... but I was on the phone with them on a
regular basis. I got the name of a specific person in the FAA medical
department and talked with her at least once a week with my first cup of
coffee. In fact, reviewing the notes, from the time it was logged into
the Medical Dept it took exactly 4 weeks for certification and then 3
more days for the mail to deliver it into my mailbox. Now all this was
7 years ago so staffing changes could cause additional delays.

Steve P

[Ron Natalie]

"Steve P" > wrote in message .net...
> Now all this was
> 7 years ago so staffing changes could cause additional delays.
>
7 years ago it only took about 8 weeks.
This has changed...they are running 12 now.
They have given the AME's greater latitude in approving stuff "pending review by OKC"
which is their great solution to not being able to meet their own abysmal performance
standards. There is no concievable reason why it should take more than two weeks
other than bureaucratic incompetance. The stuff takes that 10 weeks to even make it
to a doctor to look at.

[SFM]

I brought to the AME a copy of a CAT scan (much nicer than an IVP) that
should I was stone free, my urine test (done at the AME's office) should no
blood, and my Uroligist gave me a report that should I was stone free. Got
my 3rd class at the exam no problem.

Just renewed my med and all that I had to do was say I was still stone free
on the form and no additional tests were required

Scott

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
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MI-150972
PP-ASEL

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-----------------------------------
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**"A long time ago being crazy meant something, nowadays everyone is
crazy" -- Charles Manson**
-------------------------------------
"nospam" > wrote in message
...
> About a year ago I passed a kidney stone. I know it passed because I
> saw it, and I know it was the only stone because I've had two
> ultrasounds: one on the night it passed showing just one stone, and
> another several months later showing no stones. My 3rd class medical
> expires in spring of 2004.
>
> I do NOT want to "beat" the medical. If I have a retained stone I don't
> wanna be the sole pilot in a plane, because I know what they can do to
> you when they pass. The one I passed last year was my first one ever
> and it hit me about 3 hours before I was scheduled to fly solo. I was
> very lucky it hit when it did. That's why I went back for another
> ultrasound several months later.
>
> However I want to be prepared for my medical without doing excessive
> tests or having excessive delays. I want to go in there with all the
> records and required proof of being stone-free when I go for the
> appointment, because I don't want any unnecessary delays. I read the
> AOPA's page on this and they said I would need a "recent" ultrasound
> showing no stones. I tried calling my AME to ask him but his office
> has a voicemail system and I'm a little shy about leaving my name and
> number for a callback for this. So some questions if any who have been
> through this can answer:
>
> 1. Probably the best thing to do is to call my AME and ask him what I
> need to do to prepare for this medical exam. But if I do this six
> months before before medical expiration, could that have a bad effect?
> Like could he say "you're grounded until I get an ultrasound" even
> though I've had one showing I'm clear since then? btw, the reason I
> need to know now is that I am doing my medical benefits for next year,
> and if I'm going to need an expensive procedure, I want to set up my
> flexible medical spending account for it.
>
> 2. Has anyone gotten insurance, specifically an HMO that requires a PCP
> referral for all tests, to cover the ultrasound/IVP/whatever required
> for this?
>
> 3. How "recent" does the ultrasound showing no stones have to be?
>
> 4. If I lose my medical temporarily (like if a retained stone is found
> and I have towait for it to pass), could I still take instrument
> training with a CFI and log the time as PIC?
>
> 5. Any other advice or war stories would be appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks.
>

[Jake Brodsky]

Having passed one myself, my condolences to you.

If you have a kidney stone in you, that's cause to be medically
grounded. I had an IVP done. Not only did it document that I had
passed a stone (unfortunately the stone wasn't recovered), it also
showed that there were no other stones. That was enough to document
my good health and to restore faith in my own fitness to fly.

For my own safety, I get checked for stones every other year or so.
To date, I haven't found any others. If I ever do, I'm going to
ground myself until it's dealt with. I began passing the first stone
while driving a car with my infant daughter in the back. What I'd
have done if I'd been flying is something that troubles me a great
deal.

This is one medical rule which exists for a very good reason. Take
care of yourself.

Happy flying!


Jake Brodsky,
PP ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ FME
Amateur Radio Station AB3A

[G.R. Patterson III]

Ron Natalie wrote:
>
> 7 years ago it only took about 8 weeks.
> This has changed...they are running 12 now.

And that's if they can keep all your paperwork in one place. If your file gets
sent to Oklahoma, give it four to six weeks and start giving them a call every
few days. The last time I had to deal with this, the number was 1-800-350-5286.
Gave them a call after eight weeks, and, yep, they lost the file.

If you're going to be calling AOPA anyway, ask them about this idea. It's what
they recommended to me three years ago (and that's where I got the number), but
times change.

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

[G.R. Patterson III]

SFM wrote:
>
> Got my 3rd class at the exam no problem.

Hey "nospam". Bookmark this one. If your AME gives you problems, it might be
worth a flight across the country to visit this guy's AME!

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

[Viperdoc]

However, if an exam is deferred or otherwise not issued by the AME, the AME
is still required to notify OKC.

[John Holden]

What you will need are the following:
1. Medical records pertaining to the stone including initial evaluation and
treatment.
2. results of all imaging studies from initial diagnosis and followup
studies.
3. Lab studies showing renal function. Chemistry panel and urinalysis. Most
recent should suffice.
4. Letter from your physician stating the current status of your health as
it relates to the stone. i.e. no evidence of recurring stone and currently
having no problems.

Gather all of this information up. Send it to the FAA aeromedical division
in OKC now with a cover letter explaining your situation and when your
medical expires.
Doing this now will allow suffecient time for them to review and send you a
letter to take with you to the AME allowing him to issue your certificate
when due. If you wait until your exam, you may end up with a derral which
will take more time. If everything looks good and you have not had recurring
stones, there should be no problem.
There is no rule that staes you must wait until your medical is due to
report medical conditions.

John Holden, M.D.
"nospam" > wrote in message
...
> About a year ago I passed a kidney stone. I know it passed because I
> saw it, and I know it was the only stone because I've had two
> ultrasounds: one on the night it passed showing just one stone, and
> another several months later showing no stones. My 3rd class medical
> expires in spring of 2004.
>
> I do NOT want to "beat" the medical. If I have a retained stone I don't
> wanna be the sole pilot in a plane, because I know what they can do to
> you when they pass. The one I passed last year was my first one ever
> and it hit me about 3 hours before I was scheduled to fly solo. I was
> very lucky it hit when it did. That's why I went back for another
> ultrasound several months later.
>
> However I want to be prepared for my medical without doing excessive
> tests or having excessive delays. I want to go in there with all the
> records and required proof of being stone-free when I go for the
> appointment, because I don't want any unnecessary delays. I read the
> AOPA's page on this and they said I would need a "recent" ultrasound
> showing no stones. I tried calling my AME to ask him but his office
> has a voicemail system and I'm a little shy about leaving my name and
> number for a callback for this. So some questions if any who have been
> through this can answer:
>
> 1. Probably the best thing to do is to call my AME and ask him what I
> need to do to prepare for this medical exam. But if I do this six
> months before before medical expiration, could that have a bad effect?
> Like could he say "you're grounded until I get an ultrasound" even
> though I've had one showing I'm clear since then? btw, the reason I
> need to know now is that I am doing my medical benefits for next year,
> and if I'm going to need an expensive procedure, I want to set up my
> flexible medical spending account for it.
>
> 2. Has anyone gotten insurance, specifically an HMO that requires a PCP
> referral for all tests, to cover the ultrasound/IVP/whatever required
> for this?
>
> 3. How "recent" does the ultrasound showing no stones have to be?
>
> 4. If I lose my medical temporarily (like if a retained stone is found
> and I have towait for it to pass), could I still take instrument
> training with a CFI and log the time as PIC?
>
> 5. Any other advice or war stories would be appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks.
>