can I get paid?

[Frederick Wilson]

Hello All,

I know that this topic has been discussed several times and that the answers
are pretty common. I just want to ensure in my particular idea if I
understand the facts.

For my civilian employment I am a computer compliance specialist. There are
occasions that I need to go to our corporate office a few states away and
others go too. Typically, if there are enough going they charter a King Air
to take us. However, it is more likely than not that not enough go to get a
Charter. If I were to fly with a PP-ASEL, could I be reimbursed for the
rental cost? Further, if I were to take my own airplane, could I recover the
fuel cost?

I think that I could do either of the above. I am not for hire to be a
pilot. Regardless if I use a plane or not, I am still going.

What are your opinions again?

This would be so much easier if it were a helicopter because I have a
commercial and an IR in them.

Thanks,
Frederick Wilson

[BTIZ]

Tim you idiot.. re read the post.. he said when there is enough people going
the COMPANY CHARTERS A KING AIR..

his question is.. when it's just him.. can he legally get the company to
reimburse his travel (rental) costs.. for the SEL

what a dolt..

BT

"Timothy Oneal" > wrote in message
...
> King Air is a twin, you got PP ASEL.... good luck flying pic. Youd have
to
> have a MEI with you to fly that thing.
> "Frederick Wilson" > wrote in message
> news:hcBrb.156752$Tr4.421184@attbi_s03...
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I know that this topic has been discussed several times and that the
> answers
> > are pretty common. I just want to ensure in my particular idea if I
> > understand the facts.
> >
> > For my civilian employment I am a computer compliance specialist. There
> are
> > occasions that I need to go to our corporate office a few states away
and
> > others go too. Typically, if there are enough going they charter a King
> Air
> > to take us. However, it is more likely than not that not enough go to
get
> a
> > Charter. If I were to fly with a PP-ASEL, could I be reimbursed for the
> > rental cost? Further, if I were to take my own airplane, could I recover
> the
> > fuel cost?
> >
> > I think that I could do either of the above. I am not for hire to be a
> > pilot. Regardless if I use a plane or not, I am still going.
> >
> > What are your opinions again?
> >
> > This would be so much easier if it were a helicopter because I have a
> > commercial and an IR in them.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Frederick Wilson
> >
> >
>
>

[BTIZ]

Fred.. the big answer would depend on your company's travel reimbursement
policy.. xx cents per mile for personal auto or rental car, xxx cents per
mile for personal air travel. Many company's do not want their people flying
:"on company business" unless they are commercial rated and specifically
covered/approved by their company.

What you need to be careful of, is the.. "I'm going anyway.. but Chuck in
Finance needs to go so there is an empty seat.".. then you or chuck could be
violating the company policy and in the event of an accident.. yours and
Chucks heirs get nothing.

as far as FARs.. AOPA would have the best answer, but as long as it's "just
you", you are not on company time (payroll, not flying for hire) when your
traveling, and you get reimbursed at xxx cents per mile for travel.. as long
as that does not exceed the cost of the rental you should be ok.

But as with anything else in aviation.. there are many opinions.. and you
can call the local Flight Standards Office.. talk to 3 different people and
get 4 different answers..

BT
"Frederick Wilson" > wrote in message
news:hcBrb.156752$Tr4.421184@attbi_s03...
> Hello All,
>
> I know that this topic has been discussed several times and that the
answers
> are pretty common. I just want to ensure in my particular idea if I
> understand the facts.
>
> For my civilian employment I am a computer compliance specialist. There
are
> occasions that I need to go to our corporate office a few states away and
> others go too. Typically, if there are enough going they charter a King
Air
> to take us. However, it is more likely than not that not enough go to get
a
> Charter. If I were to fly with a PP-ASEL, could I be reimbursed for the
> rental cost? Further, if I were to take my own airplane, could I recover
the
> fuel cost?
>
> I think that I could do either of the above. I am not for hire to be a
> pilot. Regardless if I use a plane or not, I am still going.
>
> What are your opinions again?
>
> This would be so much easier if it were a helicopter because I have a
> commercial and an IR in them.
>
> Thanks,
> Frederick Wilson
>
>

[Bob Gardner]

Wrong subject line...you mean "Can I get reimbursed?" You obviously cannot
get paid for flying.

Bob Gardner

"Frederick Wilson" > wrote in message
news:hcBrb.156752$Tr4.421184@attbi_s03...
> Hello All,
>
> I know that this topic has been discussed several times and that the
answers
> are pretty common. I just want to ensure in my particular idea if I
> understand the facts.
>
> For my civilian employment I am a computer compliance specialist. There
are
> occasions that I need to go to our corporate office a few states away and
> others go too. Typically, if there are enough going they charter a King
Air
> to take us. However, it is more likely than not that not enough go to get
a
> Charter. If I were to fly with a PP-ASEL, could I be reimbursed for the
> rental cost? Further, if I were to take my own airplane, could I recover
the
> fuel cost?
>
> I think that I could do either of the above. I am not for hire to be a
> pilot. Regardless if I use a plane or not, I am still going.
>
> What are your opinions again?
>
> This would be so much easier if it were a helicopter because I have a
> commercial and an IR in them.
>
> Thanks,
> Frederick Wilson
>
>

[Teacherjh]

>>
You obviously cannot
get paid for flying.
<<

Is that really true? So long as the fllying is "incidental" to the business, I
beleve you can get "paid for flying" - i.e. you can be on salary during the
trip.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Peter Duniho]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
news:FQBrb.155284$HS4.1275807@attbi_s01...
> Wrong subject line...you mean "Can I get reimbursed?" You obviously cannot
> get paid for flying.

Don't you think you're splitting hairs a little finely there? "Paid" does
not necessarily mean you have been hired. It simply means you've received
money. A reimbursement is just as much a payment as a paycheck is.

The thing I really don't get is that I'd have thought that you'd know the
answer to his question, but for some reason you didn't take the time to
comment on *that*. That would have been a more helpful reply than what you
offered, I think.

Frederick: BTIZ's reply pretty much sums it up (his first one, that is :) ).
Since the flight is incidental to your business, you may be reimbursed
according to the FARs. You could even carry your coworkers, if they wanted
to come along. However, as he says, your employer may not think it's such a
great idea anyway. Corporate lawyers are notoriously jumpy about small
aircraft being used in the furtherance of company business.

Pete

[Bob Gardner]

I think that you and teacherjh are the ones who are splitting hairs. It is
obvious that he will collect his paycheck for his employment...he wanted to
know what method was appropriate so that he could recover his costs.

Bob Gardner

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> news:FQBrb.155284$HS4.1275807@attbi_s01...
> > Wrong subject line...you mean "Can I get reimbursed?" You obviously
cannot
> > get paid for flying.
>
> Don't you think you're splitting hairs a little finely there? "Paid" does
> not necessarily mean you have been hired. It simply means you've received
> money. A reimbursement is just as much a payment as a paycheck is.
>
> The thing I really don't get is that I'd have thought that you'd know the
> answer to his question, but for some reason you didn't take the time to
> comment on *that*. That would have been a more helpful reply than what
you
> offered, I think.
>
> Frederick: BTIZ's reply pretty much sums it up (his first one, that is
:) ).
> Since the flight is incidental to your business, you may be reimbursed
> according to the FARs. You could even carry your coworkers, if they
wanted
> to come along. However, as he says, your employer may not think it's such
a
> great idea anyway. Corporate lawyers are notoriously jumpy about small
> aircraft being used in the furtherance of company business.
>
> Pete
>
>

[C J Campbell]

You may be reimbursed by your company for the cost of your travel if flying
is incidental to the reason for the trip (meaning that the reason for the
trip could be accomplished if you drove or took a commercial airliner). You
may not volunteer to take people if you were not going anyway. This
reimbursement may take the form of a standard mileage rate or by computing
direct costs. You may not be reimbursed for your time when you are piloting
the airplane.

People will tell you that corporate attorneys, insurance, etc. will not
generally allow it. Actually, I know several people that fly their own
airplanes on company business. It is easier, of course, if you own the
company, but most of the people that I know are like sales people or
engineers for large corporations.

[Peter Duniho]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
news:inCrb.115345$275.332456@attbi_s53...
> I think that you and teacherjh are the ones who are splitting hairs. It is
> obvious that he will collect his paycheck for his employment

And he's permitted to. It's the reimbursement for the cost of the airplane
he was asking about, which is not his paycheck. He can get paid, AND he can
get paid (except, of course, by your overly strict definition of "paid").

[Bob Gardner]

Google on "private aircraft + reimbursement" and you will get all sorts of
useful information.

Bob Gardner

"Frederick Wilson" > wrote in message
news:hcBrb.156752$Tr4.421184@attbi_s03...
> Hello All,
>
> I know that this topic has been discussed several times and that the
answers
> are pretty common. I just want to ensure in my particular idea if I
> understand the facts.
>
> For my civilian employment I am a computer compliance specialist. There
are
> occasions that I need to go to our corporate office a few states away and
> others go too. Typically, if there are enough going they charter a King
Air
> to take us. However, it is more likely than not that not enough go to get
a
> Charter. If I were to fly with a PP-ASEL, could I be reimbursed for the
> rental cost? Further, if I were to take my own airplane, could I recover
the
> fuel cost?
>
> I think that I could do either of the above. I am not for hire to be a
> pilot. Regardless if I use a plane or not, I am still going.
>
> What are your opinions again?
>
> This would be so much easier if it were a helicopter because I have a
> commercial and an IR in them.
>
> Thanks,
> Frederick Wilson
>
>

[Bob Gardner]

I'm going to put this in the dictionary next to "circular argument." He is
"permitted to" collect his salary? Give me a break, Peter. His original
question and my original answer had nothing to do with his collecting his
regular paycheck, whether he flew a private airplane or stayed home slaving
over a hot desk. The thrust of his original post was how he should be
reimbursed by his employer for travel costs...nothing more. I still think
that the original subject line could have been better worded in order to
elicit the information he required.

Bob Gardner

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> news:inCrb.115345$275.332456@attbi_s53...
> > I think that you and teacherjh are the ones who are splitting hairs. It
is
> > obvious that he will collect his paycheck for his employment
>
> And he's permitted to. It's the reimbursement for the cost of the
airplane
> he was asking about, which is not his paycheck. He can get paid, AND he
can
> get paid (except, of course, by your overly strict definition of "paid").
>
>

[Peter Duniho]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
news:HDCrb.116785$ao4.358892@attbi_s51...
> [...] The thrust of his original post was how he should be
> reimbursed by his employer for travel costs...nothing more.

I know that. I don't see how his subject line in any way interferes with
that question. But then, I don't have as such a strict interpretation of
the word "paid" as you appear to have.

Which, oddly enough, was my point.

> I still think
> that the original subject line could have been better worded in order to
> elicit the information he required.

Hard to say, since it's still the weekend and many people haven't had a
chance to reply. But so far, he's gotten a few useful replies, one reply
that obviously misunderstood the post (but not the subject line), and one
that complained about the subject line. So far, most of us have not found
the subject line to be a problem at all.

Seems like, in spite of the usual low Usenet signal-to-noise ratio, he's
elicited some useful information, in spite of the subject line he used.

Pete

[Bob Gardner]

And I'm glad he did. Makes all this at-keyboards-drawn combat worth while in
the end.

Bob

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> news:HDCrb.116785$ao4.358892@attbi_s51...
> > [...] The thrust of his original post was how he should be
> > reimbursed by his employer for travel costs...nothing more.
>
> I know that. I don't see how his subject line in any way interferes with
> that question. But then, I don't have as such a strict interpretation of
> the word "paid" as you appear to have.
>
> Which, oddly enough, was my point.
>
> > I still think
> > that the original subject line could have been better worded in order to
> > elicit the information he required.
>
> Hard to say, since it's still the weekend and many people haven't had a
> chance to reply. But so far, he's gotten a few useful replies, one reply
> that obviously misunderstood the post (but not the subject line), and one
> that complained about the subject line. So far, most of us have not found
> the subject line to be a problem at all.
>
> Seems like, in spite of the usual low Usenet signal-to-noise ratio, he's
> elicited some useful information, in spite of the subject line he used.
>
> Pete
>
>

[Timothy Oneal]

King Air is a twin, you got PP ASEL.... good luck flying pic. Youd have to
have a MEI with you to fly that thing.
"Frederick Wilson" > wrote in message
news:hcBrb.156752$Tr4.421184@attbi_s03...
> Hello All,
>
> I know that this topic has been discussed several times and that the
answers
> are pretty common. I just want to ensure in my particular idea if I
> understand the facts.
>
> For my civilian employment I am a computer compliance specialist. There
are
> occasions that I need to go to our corporate office a few states away and
> others go too. Typically, if there are enough going they charter a King
Air
> to take us. However, it is more likely than not that not enough go to get
a
> Charter. If I were to fly with a PP-ASEL, could I be reimbursed for the
> rental cost? Further, if I were to take my own airplane, could I recover
the
> fuel cost?
>
> I think that I could do either of the above. I am not for hire to be a
> pilot. Regardless if I use a plane or not, I am still going.
>
> What are your opinions again?
>
> This would be so much easier if it were a helicopter because I have a
> commercial and an IR in them.
>
> Thanks,
> Frederick Wilson
>
>

[Timothy Oneal]

:o)


"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:YxBrb.14253$Zb7.3400@fed1read01...
> Tim you idiot.. re read the post.. he said when there is enough people
going
> the COMPANY CHARTERS A KING AIR..
>
> his question is.. when it's just him.. can he legally get the company to
> reimburse his travel (rental) costs.. for the SEL
>
> what a dolt..
>
> BT
>
> "Timothy Oneal" > wrote in message
> ...
> > King Air is a twin, you got PP ASEL.... good luck flying pic. Youd
have
> to
> > have a MEI with you to fly that thing.
> > "Frederick Wilson" > wrote in message
> > news:hcBrb.156752$Tr4.421184@attbi_s03...
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > I know that this topic has been discussed several times and that the
> > answers
> > > are pretty common. I just want to ensure in my particular idea if I
> > > understand the facts.
> > >
> > > For my civilian employment I am a computer compliance specialist.
There
> > are
> > > occasions that I need to go to our corporate office a few states away
> and
> > > others go too. Typically, if there are enough going they charter a
King
> > Air
> > > to take us. However, it is more likely than not that not enough go to
> get
> > a
> > > Charter. If I were to fly with a PP-ASEL, could I be reimbursed for
the
> > > rental cost? Further, if I were to take my own airplane, could I
recover
> > the
> > > fuel cost?
> > >
> > > I think that I could do either of the above. I am not for hire to be a
> > > pilot. Regardless if I use a plane or not, I am still going.
> > >
> > > What are your opinions again?
> > >
> > > This would be so much easier if it were a helicopter because I have a
> > > commercial and an IR in them.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Frederick Wilson
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Ron Natalie]

"Frederick Wilson" > wrote in message news:hcBrb.156752$Tr4.421184@attbi_s03...

> I think that I could do either of the above. I am not for hire to be a
> pilot. Regardless if I use a plane or not, I am still going.
>
> What are your opinions again?
>

You can get reimbursed for your expenses as long as the flight is
incidental to your work and you're not carrying passengers or property for hire.

This sounds like it is the case for you.

[Ron Natalie]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message news:qDBrb.14279$Zb7.14106@fed1read01...

You're corporate policy and insurance liability are well taken. Remember if you
are travelling on business the company is liable and many are a bit reticent to
expose that risk.

> as far as FARs.. AOPA would have the best answer, but as long as it's "just
> you", you are not on company time (payroll, not flying for hire)

Nothing keeps you from being on the company time nor from carrying passengers.
The operative words are "incidental to business" and "not carrying passengers or
property for hire." If me and my office mate need to head up to Philly for a meeting,
we can both hop in the Navion and go and I can get my gas money, landing fees,
etc... reimbursed.

> when your
> traveling, and you get reimbursed at xxx cents per mile for travel.. as long
> as that does not exceed the cost of the rental you should be ok.

You can get reimbursed for the full cost (direct operating expenses or rental
as appropriate).

>

[Ron Natalie]

"Teacherjh" > wrote in message ...
> >>
> You obviously cannot
> get paid for flying.
> <<
>
> Is that really true? So long as the fllying is "incidental" to the business, I
> beleve you can get "paid for flying" - i.e. you can be on salary during the
> trip.

You'd get the salary anyhow. You're not being expressly paid for the flying
duty.

[Teacherjh]

>>
You may not be reimbursed for your time when you are piloting
the airplane.
<<

Where does it say this (if it's incidental to your business)? I believe you
can draw salary.

And I wasn't necessarily addressing the orignal question only, but also the
follow-up questions that often cloud the issue.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[BTIZ]

Ron... notice key words.. "do not exceed" the cost of the rental...

BT


> > when your
> > traveling, and you get reimbursed at xxx cents per mile for travel.. as
long
> > as that does not exceed the cost of the rental you should be ok.
>
> You can get reimbursed for the full cost (direct operating expenses or
rental
> as appropriate).
>
> >
>
>

[Ron Natalie]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message news:i0Rrb.20875$Zb7.18812@fed1read01...
> Ron... notice key words.. "do not exceed" the cost of the rental...
>
I was addressing the xxx cents per mile part of your statement.
It's immaterial as far as the FAA is concerned. My employer can
pay me the actual costs regardless of any particular milage rate.

[BTIZ]

true.. I'm so used to filing "gov't/military" travel expenses where the
"reimbursement" is based on xx cents per mile (higher rate/mile for air),
not to exceed the cost of "commercial" transportation..

private companies may set their own travel expense limits..

BT

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:i0Rrb.20875$Zb7.18812@fed1read01...
> > Ron... notice key words.. "do not exceed" the cost of the rental...
> >
> I was addressing the xxx cents per mile part of your statement.
> It's immaterial as far as the FAA is concerned. My employer can
> pay me the actual costs regardless of any particular milage rate.
>
>