Contest Insurance Grumblings [Archive]

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noel.wade

April 3rd 12, 09:53 PM

OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
insurance requirement "changes" for this year?

I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
contest liability insurance.

In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.

I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
payments)?

The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
(or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
certain volume of business each year.

Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,

--Noel

Matt Herron Jr.

April 3rd 12, 10:04 PM

On Apr 3, 1:53*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> OK, just had to post: *Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
> insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
>
> I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
> sailplane (2007). *I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
> last 4 years. *They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
> flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. *Unfortunately,
> they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
> contest liability insurance.
>
> In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
> in a way that the SSA approves of: *Costello.
>
> I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
> witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
> convention. *But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
> way... *Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
> us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
> good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
> payments)?
>
> The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
> (or other pilots in a midair). *Does that actually help defuse any
> ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
> wake of an accident? *It certainly doesn't provide any special
> indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
> benefit in a legal/liability situation. *Seems to me that the primary
> benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
> certain volume of business each year.
>
> Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
>
> --Noel

I have had the opposite experience with Avemco. They would not cover
my experimental aircraft without a lot of additional cost, and "non-
owners" insurance and guest pilots were big adders as well. Much
better deal in my situation with Costello.

Matt

glidergeek

April 3rd 12, 10:07 PM

On Apr 3, 1:53*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> OK, just had to post: *Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
> insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
>
> I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
> sailplane (2007). *I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
> last 4 years. *They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
> flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. *Unfortunately,
> they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
> contest liability insurance.
>
> In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
> in a way that the SSA approves of: *Costello.
>
> I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
> witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
> convention. *But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
> way... *Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
> us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
> good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
> payments)?
>
> The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
> (or other pilots in a midair). *Does that actually help defuse any
> ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
> wake of an accident? *It certainly doesn't provide any special
> indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
> benefit in a legal/liability situation. *Seems to me that the primary
> benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
> certain volume of business each year.
>
> Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
>
> --Noel

Noel
Who is the carrier of your insurance? Not your broker but the carrier?

Dave Nadler

April 3rd 12, 10:15 PM

John Carlyle

April 3rd 12, 10:39 PM

Unpleasant experiences can undoubtedly bias you against a company. For myself, though, Costello has been great. On advice from others, I got quotes from two other companies when I insured my LS8 (experimental A/W) three years ago. Costello offered by far the lowest cost policy. And when I factored in their annual lowering deductible and their renter's coverage, it got even better. I'm definitely a fan of Costello, but maybe you being "forced" to change insurance companies will turn out to be a good thing...

-John

Cliff Hilty[_2_]

April 3rd 12, 11:05 PM

At 20:53 03 April 2012, noel.wade wrote:
>OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
>insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
>
But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
>way... >Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
>
>--Noel
>
>

Im with Noel, I am even more ****ed that they (SSA) didn't give any notice
(should have been at least a year) for those of us who already renewed
before there notice. I have had excellent coverage with avemco but my
policy doesn't end until July.

And it sure smacks of a monopoly move on the sailplane market.

Prompted by the Hobbs midair, before renewing last year and after talking
last summer with Avemco the argument against larger limits is well fought
by them. Essentially they will fight to not pay out more and have some
(according to the agent I talked to) litigation going on for several years
and several million dollars in attorneys fees to not pay to the gold
diggers looking for a deep pocket. Also according to the agent, they have
NEVER paid out more than the 100,000 to an individual and don't intend to
start now!

CH (no contests in my future till they come to their senses or I come to
mine or at least until I renew :)

[email protected]

April 3rd 12, 11:15 PM

JJ Sinclair[_2_]

April 4th 12, 03:20 AM

I have recently had some insight into the aftermath of a midair collision with 2 fatalities and believe me the SSA requierment IS A BIG DEAL. Sure, your insurance company is required to fight for you in court, but if things go against you, AVEMCO will toss in $100,000 and walk away! Costello will pay out a maximum of $1,000,000. I really can't imagine any accident where AVEMCO would even come close to their $1,000,000 for each accident..............the accident would have to involve killing 10 people!
Bottom line is; AVEMCO was charging me $40 bucks more than Costello for 1/10 the coverage.
JJ Sinclair

Jim Price

April 4th 12, 02:04 PM

For many years I used L. L. Johns agency....the agent is John Gostinger. I had previously used AVEMCO. L. L. Johns writes insurance for USAIG as I recall.

I had no reason to re up this year so do not know how the new rule would affect their policy

It might be worth a call to John Gostinger to check it out. Their web site is here

http://lljohns.com/

Phone is 1-800-662-4401

Jim

Sean Fidler

April 4th 12, 03:36 PM

To be perfectly honest, every time I talk to Costello (including yesterday) it feels rude, short and uncomfortable. We have a number of pilots in our area who currently use them. In addition I insure a contest and a large hangar thru them. If you listened to the phone calls we have made with fairly simple questions you would think that we were bill collectors instead of paying customers of several years...it is frankly getting that bad. I am strongly considering a change.

I am very disappointed in their general customer care, consistent poor demeanor and very distinct lack of friendly-ness. This is not just I but a number of others and we have all been discussing it recently. Nothing is more important to me after spending 5k a year with someone (2 gliders, hangar, contest). We should be treated like gold, not like a piece of dog****.

Anyone else know what I am talking about?

Sean
F2

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
> insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
>
> I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
> sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
> last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
> flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
> they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
> contest liability insurance.
>
> In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
> in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.
>
> I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
> witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
> convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
> way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
> us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
> good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
> payments)?
>
> The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
> (or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
> ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
> wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
> indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
> benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
> benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
> certain volume of business each year.
>
> Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
>
> --Noel

Randy Teel

April 4th 12, 05:32 PM

I have not had any issues with Costello and have been treated very well.
We use them for all of our club's aircraft. For my personal gliders, I am
insured with LL John and my agent is John Gostinger. He is a great guy!

Randy

kirk.stant

April 4th 12, 06:05 PM

My experience with Costello has been nothing but professional and easy.

Perhaps the problem isn't with them...

Kirk
66

Tony[_5_]

April 4th 12, 06:22 PM

> Anyone else know what I am talking about?

Nope

Sean Fidler

April 4th 12, 06:25 PM

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:05:34 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
> My experience with Costello has been nothing but professional and easy.
>
> Perhaps the problem isn't with them...
>
> Kirk
> 66

Kirk,

Perhaps you need a beatdown.

Sean

[email protected]

April 4th 12, 06:35 PM

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 10:36:19 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> To be perfectly honest, every time I talk to Costello (including yesterday) it feels rude, short and uncomfortable. We have a number of pilots in our area who currently use them. In addition I insure a contest and a large hangar thru them. If you listened to the phone calls we have made with fairly simple questions you would think that we were bill collectors instead of paying customers of several years...it is frankly getting that bad. I am strongly considering a change.
>
> I am very disappointed in their general customer care, consistent poor demeanor and very distinct lack of friendly-ness. This is not just I but a number of others and we have all been discussing it recently. Nothing is more important to me after spending 5k a year with someone (2 gliders, hangar, contest). We should be treated like gold, not like a piece of dog****.
>
> Anyone else know what I am talking about?
>
> Sean
> F2
>
> On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> > OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
> > insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
> >
> > I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
> > sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
> > last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
> > flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
> > they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
> > contest liability insurance.
> >
> > In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
> > in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.
> >
> > I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
> > witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
> > convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
> > way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
> > us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
> > good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
> > payments)?
> >
> > The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
> > (or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
> > ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
> > wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
> > indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
> > benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
> > benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
> > certain volume of business each year.
> >
> > Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
> >
> > --Noel

I have had excellent service at all times from the fine people at Costello and Assoc.
They go out of their way to be helpful, informative and friendly.
They have all my business
UH

Sean Fidler

April 4th 12, 07:04 PM

Based on this thread, at least a few SSA pilots are getting the feeling that the general relationship and "uncompromising loyalty" some are trying to display here adds suspicion to the idea that a rather "cozy" relationship has developed between Costello and the SSA. This is based on new SSA insurance guidelines and the fact that Costello seems to be at great competitive advantaged after the change. This doesn't quite pass the smell test for some.

And they are plain rude. Ill record a conversation and post it for everyone.

Chip Bearden[_2_]

April 4th 12, 07:06 PM

I insured through Costello for years (they're the SSA's broker of
record, not the actual carrier). When I went on the SSA Board of
Directors back in the late 80s, I learned that the insurance company
itself had begun to insist on a letter from a doctor for older pilots
despite that not being necessary per the FARs. Costello didn't appear
to be fighting it on the SSA's behalf. It put us in the odd position
of representing to the FAA that soaring pilots should continue to be
allowed to self certify their medical fitness but our own SSA
insurance saying something completely different. After this came out,
the Board directed Costello to push back and all was eventually put
right, but I was somewhat annoyed with the whole affair. At the next
SSA convention, I described the situation to the Avemco rep there and
he laughed: "I can't believe you (i.e., the SSA) are sending us all
your best risks (i.e., older, more careful and experienced pilots)." I
got a better quote and switched to Avemco, where I insured happily for
quite a few years. More recently I started worrying about Avemco's
$100K per person limit vs. $1 million per accident and asked if they
could provide the higher limit per person. They said not, even if I
were willing to pay more. So somewhat regretfully, I switched back to
insuring through Costello.

However, they, like Avemco, have been great to deal with. The SSA's
group policy is slightly less flexible than Avemco was regarding
winter storage--Avemco allowed me to stop and restart inflight
coverage it when I wanted, even more than once during the winter if I
didn't get carried away. The SSA policy requires me to pick stop and
restart dates in advance. But otherwise it's been seamless. Actually,
both outfits have been good to work with: polite, responsive, and
helpful. I can heartily recommend both. I understand the reason for
the new policy regarding contest coverage and in today's litigious
climate I can't disagree. As I recall, Avemco has a nice pro-rate
premium clause that would allow an insured to terminate a policy mid-
term in order to switch carriers fairly easily, although Dave Nadler's
post indicates that might not be necessary.

I'm a free-market proponent so I endorse having some competition even
if the soaring market is a tiny one. The fact that it is so small
makes it less likely that any carrier will be as flexible as an
individual pilot might want them to be regarding specific insurance
needs. I haven't heard any horror stories about claims with either the
SSA group policy or Avemco.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

Greg Arnold

April 4th 12, 07:53 PM

All my dealings with Costello have been via email, and they have given
tremendous service. Fast and very friendly.

On 4/4/2012 7:36 AM, Sean Fidler wrote:
> To be perfectly honest, every time I talk to Costello (including yesterday) it feels rude, short and uncomfortable. We have a number of pilots in our area who currently use them. In addition I insure a contest and a large hangar thru them. If you listened to the phone calls we have made with fairly simple questions you would think that we were bill collectors instead of paying customers of several years...it is frankly getting that bad. I am strongly considering a change.
>
> I am very disappointed in their general customer care, consistent poor demeanor and very distinct lack of friendly-ness. This is not just I but a number of others and we have all been discussing it recently. Nothing is more important to me after spending 5k a year with someone (2 gliders, hangar, contest). We should be treated like gold, not like a piece of dog****.
>
> Anyone else know what I am talking about?
>
> Sean
> F2
>
>

noel.wade

April 4th 12, 08:54 PM

> Noel - Avemco did provide me with the required coverage and a
> separate binder page for presenting at SSA contests. I've been
> very happy with their service for many years and insure a
> number of aircraft with them...
> Perhaps you should give them another call ?
> Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

Dave -

Sent you a private email. Would love to know who at Avemco you worked
with on this... I've talked to several people and it seems that inside
Avemco there may be different understandings of what they can and
can't do.

I'm also looking at a couple of other carriers as possibilities.

To address some of the comments by others: I'm not trying to trash
Costello. But I found that Avemco gave me more flexible payment
options, could cover both my glider and the Experimental Sonex kit-
plane that I'm building, and my premiums were the same or slightly
less than with Costello. I am loathe to give up the payment
flexibility and deal with multiple insurance carriers for my 2
aircraft (OK, one is still mostly parts in my garage; but I'm still
required to insure it).

Lastly: Anyone who thinks that an insurance policy protects them from
being sued in an accident is ludicrous. In the US, if someone thinks
they can sue you and get more money, they will. I also don't see how
higher coverage will somehow indemnify the SSA from being sued as a
party to the contest (if the argument is that we need higher coverage
at sanctioned contests to "protect" the SSA)...

--Noel

Jim Price

April 4th 12, 09:03 PM

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:54:34 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> > Noel - Avemco did provide me with the required coverage and a
> > separate binder page for presenting at SSA contests. I've been
> > very happy with their service for many years and insure a
> > number of aircraft with them...
> > Perhaps you should give them another call ?
> > Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"
>
> Dave -
>
> Sent you a private email. Would love to know who at Avemco you worked
> with on this... I've talked to several people and it seems that inside
> Avemco there may be different understandings of what they can and
> can't do.
>
> I'm also looking at a couple of other carriers as possibilities.
>
> To address some of the comments by others: I'm not trying to trash
> Costello. But I found that Avemco gave me more flexible payment
> options, could cover both my glider and the Experimental Sonex kit-
> plane that I'm building, and my premiums were the same or slightly
> less than with Costello. I am loathe to give up the payment
> flexibility and deal with multiple insurance carriers for my 2
> aircraft (OK, one is still mostly parts in my garage; but I'm still
> required to insure it).
>
> Lastly: Anyone who thinks that an insurance policy protects them from
> being sued in an accident is ludicrous. In the US, if someone thinks
> they can sue you and get more money, they will. I also don't see how
> higher coverage will somehow indemnify the SSA from being sued as a
> party to the contest (if the argument is that we need higher coverage
> at sanctioned contests to "protect" the SSA)...
>
> --Noel

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:54:34 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> > Noel - Avemco did provide me with the required coverage and a
> > separate binder page for presenting at SSA contests. I've been
> > very happy with their service for many years and insure a
> > number of aircraft with them...
> > Perhaps you should give them another call ?
> > Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"
>
> Dave -
>
> Sent you a private email. Would love to know who at Avemco you worked
> with on this... I've talked to several people and it seems that inside
> Avemco there may be different understandings of what they can and
> can't do.
>
> I'm also looking at a couple of other carriers as possibilities.
>
> To address some of the comments by others: I'm not trying to trash
> Costello. But I found that Avemco gave me more flexible payment
> options, could cover both my glider and the Experimental Sonex kit-
> plane that I'm building, and my premiums were the same or slightly
> less than with Costello. I am loathe to give up the payment
> flexibility and deal with multiple insurance carriers for my 2
> aircraft (OK, one is still mostly parts in my garage; but I'm still
> required to insure it).
>
> Lastly: Anyone who thinks that an insurance policy protects them from
> being sued in an accident is ludicrous. In the US, if someone thinks
> they can sue you and get more money, they will. I also don't see how
> higher coverage will somehow indemnify the SSA from being sued as a
> party to the contest (if the argument is that we need higher coverage
> at sanctioned contests to "protect" the SSA)...
>
> --Noel

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:54:34 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> > Noel - Avemco did provide me with the required coverage and a
> > separate binder page for presenting at SSA contests. I've been
> > very happy with their service for many years and insure a
> > number of aircraft with them...
> > Perhaps you should give them another call ?
> > Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"
>
> Dave -
>
> Sent you a private email. Would love to know who at Avemco you worked
> with on this... I've talked to several people and it seems that inside
> Avemco there may be different understandings of what they can and
> can't do.
>
> I'm also looking at a couple of other carriers as possibilities.
>
> To address some of the comments by others: I'm not trying to trash
> Costello. But I found that Avemco gave me more flexible payment
> options, could cover both my glider and the Experimental Sonex kit-
> plane that I'm building, and my premiums were the same or slightly
> less than with Costello. I am loathe to give up the payment
> flexibility and deal with multiple insurance carriers for my 2
> aircraft (OK, one is still mostly parts in my garage; but I'm still
> required to insure it).
>
> Lastly: Anyone who thinks that an insurance policy protects them from
> being sued in an accident is ludicrous. In the US, if someone thinks
> they can sue you and get more money, they will. I also don't see how
> higher coverage will somehow indemnify the SSA from being sued as a
> party to the contest (if the argument is that we need higher coverage
> at sanctioned contests to "protect" the SSA)...
>
> --Noel

Jim Price

April 4th 12, 09:03 PM

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
> insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
>
> I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
> sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
> last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
> flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
> they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
> contest liability insurance.
>
> In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
> in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.
>
> I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
> witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
> convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
> way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
> us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
> good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
> payments)?
>
> The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
> (or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
> ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
> wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
> indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
> benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
> benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
> certain volume of business each year.
>
> Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
>
> --Noel

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
> insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
>
> I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
> sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
> last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
> flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
> they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
> contest liability insurance.
>
> In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
> in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.
>
> I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
> witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
> convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
> way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
> us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
> good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
> payments)?
>
> The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
> (or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
> ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
> wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
> indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
> benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
> benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
> certain volume of business each year.
>
> Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
>
> --Noel

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
> insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
>
> I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
> sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
> last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
> flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
> they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
> contest liability insurance.
>
> In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
> in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.
>
> I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
> witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
> convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
> way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
> us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
> good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
> payments)?
>
> The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
> (or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
> ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
> wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
> indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
> benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
> benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
> certain volume of business each year.
>
> Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
>
> --Noel

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
> insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
>
> I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
> sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
> last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
> flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
> they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
> contest liability insurance.
>
> In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
> in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.
>
> I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
> witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
> convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
> way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
> us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
> good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
> payments)?
>
> The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
> (or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
> ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
> wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
> indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
> benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
> benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
> certain volume of business each year.
>
> Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
>
> --Noel

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
> insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
>
> I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
> sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
> last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
> flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
> they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
> contest liability insurance.
>
> In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
> in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.
>
> I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
> witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
> convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
> way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
> us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
> good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
> payments)?
>
> The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
> (or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
> ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
> wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
> indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
> benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
> benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
> certain volume of business each year.
>
> Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
>
> --Noel

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
> insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
>
> I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
> sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
> last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
> flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
> they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
> contest liability insurance.
>
> In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
> in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.
>
> I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
> witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
> convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
> way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
> us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
> good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
> payments)?
>
> The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
> (or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
> ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
> wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
> indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
> benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
> benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
> certain volume of business each year.
>
> Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
>
> --Noel

Jim Price

April 4th 12, 09:12 PM

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:

From all the later posts, I'm not sure anyone saw my earlier post...here is the essence of it

I used LL John in Michigan for years and thought the service and rates were great ...better than AVEMCO or Costello

I had no reason to re-up this year so don't know how the SSA rule would play out with them. They write for USAIG and the guy to talk to there is John Gostinger

I would suggest that you call John Gostinger and discuss this...he was always great to deal with ..several guys at Caesar Creek Soaring Club used them for years

here is the web site

http://lljohns.com/

Jim

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:53:14 PM UTC-4, noel.wade wrote:
> OK, just had to post: Is anyone else here really annoyed at the SSA's
> insurance requirement "changes" for this year?
>
> I had an unpleasant experience with Costello when I bought my first
> sailplane (2007). I was very satisfied with my move to Avemco for the
> last 4 years. They've provided me with comparable rates & coverage,
> flexible payment plans, and helpful, friendly staff. Unfortunately,
> they cannot comply with the revised/clarified requirements for soaring
> contest liability insurance.
>
> In fact, it seems that only one carrier out there words their policy
> in a way that the SSA approves of: Costello.
>
> I know that Costello has a positive relationship with the SSA and
> witnessed the nice check they handed over to the SSA at the Reno
> convention. But setting up a de-facto monopoly just rubs me the wrong
> way... Shouldn't private companies be competing to do business with
> us, as a group of several-hundred customers (who are likely to have
> good income and be a relatively low risk of defaulting on our
> payments)?
>
> The "disputed" issue is a little bit of extra coverage for bystanders
> (or other pilots in a midair). Does that actually help defuse any
> ridiculous litigation or civil suits or financial penalties, in the
> wake of an accident? It certainly doesn't provide any special
> indemnification for the SSA, so I highly doubt it has a practical
> benefit in a legal/liability situation. Seems to me that the primary
> benefit of this insurance requirement is that it guarantees Costello a
> certain volume of business each year.
>
> Annoyed that I'm being forced to change carriers,
>
> --Noel

Berry[_2_]

April 4th 12, 09:53 PM

In article
<29480331.402.1333550179491.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yncd14>,
Sean Fidler > wrote:

> To be perfectly honest, every time I talk to Costello (including yesterday)
> it feels rude, short and uncomfortable. We have a number of pilots in our
> area who currently use them. In addition I insure a contest and a large
> hangar thru them. If you listened to the phone calls we have made with
> fairly simple questions you would think that we were bill collectors instead
> of paying customers of several years...it is frankly getting that bad. I am
> strongly considering a change.
>
> I am very disappointed in their general customer care, consistent poor
> demeanor and very distinct lack of friendly-ness. This is not just I but a
> number of others and we have all been discussing it recently. Nothing is
> more important to me after spending 5k a year with someone (2 gliders,
> hangar, contest). We should be treated like gold, not like a piece of
> dog****.
>
> Anyone else know what I am talking about?
>
> Sean
> F2

My experience with Costello has been different from yours.

Everyone I've ever spoken to at Costello has been way more than friendly
and service oriented. I used to speak with Sue Fassett nearly every
year. Has she left Costello? Sue was always great to deal with. First
time I met her in person, at an SSA convention, she saw my name badge
and said something like "Oh, you're Wallace, you fly a Libelle". I am
sure my local car insurance agent wouldn't remember what car I drive. An
example of the service I have received from Costello: I went to a
contest once without my insurance papers. Called Costello on a Saturday
not only did I get an actual person on the phone, they faxed my proof of
insurance to the contest site. They seemed happy to do it and were not
short or rude with me. I count that as good service.

I have had glider insurance with other companies in the past. Costello
has been as cheap or cheaper for me over the long term and they didn't
come up with strange rules like "We won't insure any glider pilot over
age 60" like I ran into with one company.

Tony[_5_]

April 4th 12, 10:29 PM

>
> My experience with Costello has been different from yours.
>
> Everyone I've ever spoken to at Costello has been way more than friendly
> and service oriented. I used to speak with Sue Fassett nearly every
> year. Has she left Costello? Sue was always great to deal with. First
> time I met her in person, at an SSA convention, she saw my name badge
> and said something like "Oh, you're Wallace, you fly a Libelle". I am
> sure my local car insurance agent wouldn't remember what car I drive. An
> example of the service I have received from Costello: I went to a
> contest once without my insurance papers. Called Costello on a Saturday
> not only did I get an actual person on the phone, they faxed my proof of
> insurance to the contest site. They seemed happy to do it and were not
> short or rude with me. I count that as good service.
>
> I have had glider insurance with other companies in the past. Costello
> has been as cheap or cheaper for me over the long term and they didn't
> come up with strange rules like "We won't insure any glider pilot over
> age 60" like I ran into with one company.

yes I talked to Sue yesterday. She was very friendly as we worked out what insurance I need for this season.

Wheaton

April 5th 12, 01:36 AM

On Apr 4, 3:29*pm, Tony > wrote:
> > My experience with Costello has been different from yours.
>
> > Everyone I've ever spoken to at Costello has been way more than friendly
> > and service oriented. I used to speak with Sue Fassett nearly every
> > year. Has she left Costello? Sue was always great to deal with. First
> > time I met her in person, at an SSA convention, she saw my name badge
> > and said something like "Oh, you're Wallace, you fly a Libelle". I am
> > sure my local car insurance agent wouldn't remember what car I drive. An
> > example of the service I have received from Costello: I went to a
> > contest once without my insurance papers. Called Costello on a Saturday
> > not only did I get an actual person on the phone, they faxed my proof of
> > insurance to the contest site. They seemed happy to do it and were not
> > short or rude with me. I count that as good service.
>
> > I have had glider insurance with other companies in the past. Costello
> > has been as cheap or cheaper for me over the long term and they didn't
> > come up with strange rules like "We won't insure any glider pilot over
> > age 60" like I ran into with one company.
>
> yes I talked to Sue yesterday. She was very friendly as we worked out what insurance I need for this season.

Ll Johns ok for singles but issue with twins.

Eric Greenwell[_4_]

April 5th 12, 03:08 AM

On 4/4/2012 7:36 AM, Sean Fidler wrote:
> To be perfectly honest, every time I talk to Costello (including
> yesterday) it feels rude, short and uncomfortable. We have a number
> of pilots in our area who currently use them. In addition I insure a
> contest and a large hangar thru them. If you listened to the phone
> calls we have made with fairly simple questions you would think that
> we were bill collectors instead of paying customers of several
> years...it is frankly getting that bad. I am strongly considering a
> change.
>
> I am very disappointed in their general customer care, consistent
> poor demeanor and very distinct lack of friendly-ness. This is not
> just I but a number of others and we have all been discussing it
> recently. Nothing is more important to me after spending 5k a year
> with someone (2 gliders, hangar, contest). We should be treated like
> gold, not like a piece of dog****.
>
> Anyone else know what I am talking about?

No, not at all. I've been insured through them for decades. Do you treat
them like you do the Rules Committee?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Larry Suter

April 5th 12, 05:35 AM

I'm very happy with Costello. Recently insured a power plane insured thru them as well as my glider. I recommend them.

Larry

Vaughn

April 5th 12, 02:43 PM

On 4/4/2012 3:54 PM, noel.wade wrote:

>
> To address some of the comments by others: I'm not trying to trash
> Costello. But I found that Avemco gave me more flexible payment
> options, could cover both my glider and the Experimental Sonex kit-
> plane that I'm building,

Costello is very easy to work with, but I also discovered that other
routs may be better if you wish to be insured for both gliders and
airplanes.

>
> Lastly: Anyone who thinks that an insurance policy protects them from
> being sued in an accident is ludicrous.

The reality can be exactly the opposite. It's the deep pockets of the
insurance money that attracts lawsuit. Actual individuals are
notoriously difficult to collect huge judgements from, so lawyers
(working on contingency) won't take the risk.

Vaughn

noel.wade

April 5th 12, 07:46 PM

All -

With a little help from Dave Nadler and Helen (a friendly rep at
Avemco), I have been able to resolve the insurance coverage issues and
stay with Avemco Insurance (important to me as they are also insuring
my kit-plane as I build it in my garage; and that insurance is part of
the financing deal I got on the kit).

For anyone else wanting to use/stay with Avemco and compete in SSA
contests, here is the crucial info:
1) You cannot compete in more than 2 contests a year (regional or
national, doesn't matter)
2) You must specifically ask for the policy changes (I gave them the
PDF detailing the coverage clarifications from the SSA website), and
mention that a couple of other glider pilots have recently gotten this
change approved as a special exemption.
3) You must be willing to pay a couple of extra dollars per month on
your premium (for me it adds up to about $60 total, on a 12 month
policy).

Beyond that, its a relatively simple change. Hope this info helps!

--Noel