XCSoar 6.3- Horizon Disabled.

[Mike C]

Thanks to Max and crew for making this version of 6.3 available for
USA soaring pilots.

Just downloaded the program for the Streak and hope to fly with it
later this week.

Your efforts are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!

Thanks you.

Mike Carris

[Sean Fidler]

+1. Pointless but +1!

I will happily pay anyone who can cloud fly (>/= 1500 ft gain) with the XC Soar mobile phone AH data field (only XC soar, no other AH) a $1000 prize.. Just send me video of the act with clear audio describing your feat as it happens. The video must be suitable to absolutely identify as you (the prize winner) and must be complete with the time and date, witnesses, flight location, aircraft registration (must be a contest glider) and of course your pilots license... Your reward will be prompt and payment will be honored! Good luck.

This offer is not valid for any real electronic AH system such as LXNAV or Butterfly... Only dysfunctional and useless mobile phone or tablet based (no real, fixed gyro's) installations of XC Soar with its 1cm square AH display is valid. Happy thermals!

This offer expires in 90 days.

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 11:22:23 PM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:
> Thanks to Max and crew for making this version of 6.3 available for
> USA soaring pilots.
>
> Just downloaded the program for the Streak and hope to fly with it
> later this week.
>
> Your efforts are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!
>
> Thanks you.
>
> Mike Carris

[Grider Pirate[_2_]]

On Apr 4, 6:33*am, Sean Fidler > wrote:
> +1. *Pointless but +1!
>
> I will happily pay anyone who can cloud fly (>/= 1500 ft gain) with the XC Soar mobile phone AH data field (only XC soar, no other AH) a $1000 prize. *Just send me video of the act with clear audio describing your feat as it happens. *The video must be suitable to absolutely identify as you (the prize winner) and must be complete with the time and date, witnesses, flight location, aircraft registration (must be a contest glider) and of course your pilots license... *Your reward will be prompt and payment will be honored! *Good luck.
>
> This offer is not valid for any real electronic AH system such as LXNAV or Butterfly... *Only dysfunctional and useless mobile phone or tablet based (no real, fixed gyro's) installations of XC Soar with its 1cm square AH display is valid. *Happy thermals!
>
> This offer expires in 90 days.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 11:22:23 PM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:
> > Thanks to Max and crew for making this version of 6.3 *available for
> > USA soaring pilots.
>
> > Just downloaded the program for the Streak and hope to fly with it
> > later this week.
>
> > Your efforts are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!
>
> > Thanks you.
>
> > Mike Carris- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yehaaa! I'll load it tonight! (not that I fly any contests)

[Max Kellermann]

Mike C > wrote:
> Thanks to Max and crew for making this version of 6.3 available for
> USA soaring pilots.

I did not contribute to this version. It is not an official XCSoar
release, even though the publisher confusingly calls himself "XCSoar
developers". I will not provide support for this build.

It's open source and that means anybody may publish modified versions.
Power to the people :-)

Max

[Derek Mackie]

On Apr 4, 3:08*pm, Max Kellermann > wrote:
> Mike C > wrote:
> > Thanks to Max and crew for making this version of 6.3 *available for
> > USA soaring pilots.
>
> I did not contribute to this version. *It is not an official XCSoar
> release, even though the publisher confusingly calls himself "XCSoar
> developers". *I will not provide support for this build.
>
> It's open source and that means anybody may publish modified versions.
> Power to the people :-)
>
> Max

I want a full IFR version that looks exactly like whatever gets
sanctioned... :-)

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

Sean, Hi.

If I had the right sort of phone, I’d like to try your challenge over
in the UK. But I haven’t, so I can’t, so your challenge is safe from
me.

By the way, have you ever heard of people cloud flying successfully
without a gyro instrument at all?

Just wondering.

Chris N.

[Sean Fidler]

:-), I am sure my challenge could be achieved and probably was foolish to not also note (which I will now) that "this feat must be done in the USA."

The point of my challenge is that the person while winning $1000 would be reported to the FAA and stripped of their licence almost without question. So nobody will do it.

In terms of cloud flying I am sure it can be accomplished in many ways by many highly skilled foreign (and perhaps american) pilots. As long as that is legal in your country...I think its great. If you can do it without instruments...I am slightly impressed. Do you have video?

But it is important to point out that I actually do agree with the general rule of no cloud flying in the USA. I have no intention of cloud flying no matter what the payoff. I think cloud flying in non IFR equipped gliders (in the USA or anywhere frankly) is extremely dangerous. That said I strongly believe that banning cell phones is not the way to deter cloud flying. I think there are far better methods for policing cloud flying that would be much less irritating to pilots who wish to have modern navigation systems in their ships...which basically all have AH's because the US is only a small fraction of the global market.

I'm going to play with my close encounters light board some more and see if we can get that basic vocabulary to sink in...

Sean

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 6:31:36 PM UTC-4, Chris Nicholas wrote:
> Sean, Hi.
>
> If I had the right sort of phone, I’d like to try your challenge over
> in the UK. But I haven’t, so I can’t, so your challenge is safe from
> me.
>
> By the way, have you ever heard of people cloud flying successfully
> without a gyro instrument at all?
>
> Just wondering.
>
> Chris N.

[Tony[_5_]]

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 5:31:36 PM UTC-5, Chris Nicholas wrote:
> Sean, Hi.
>
> If I had the right sort of phone, I’d like to try your challenge over
> in the UK. But I haven’t, so I can’t, so your challenge is safe from
> me.
>
> By the way, have you ever heard of people cloud flying successfully
> without a gyro instrument at all?
>
> Just wondering.
>
> Chris N.

yes, plenty of stories of no instrument cloud flying in pre-WWII gliding books and magazines. Sometimes it ended successfully and sometimes not. Sometimes "Successfully" was measured by surviving to tell about it.

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

1. I always try to discourage people from trying to fly in cloud in
gliders, particularly if self teaching. I regard it as too risky,
particularly with modern, slippery ships. I have posted to that effect
on this forum before, and elsewhere.

2. I do fly in cloud myself when I can. It is legal in the UK, I did
have some tuition, and I like to keep in practice. I know several
others who do so too. I have a turn and slip (gyro). I also have an
electronic attitude indicator, but I find it has too much lag to be
sufficient on its own. For all I know there may be better ones with no
such lag.

3. I have been told by two pilots of their experience climbing in
cloud without a gyro instrument, and I do not doubt they were telling
the truth. They told me the technique they used (the same in each
case). I am not going to pass it on here. They were talking of older,
wooden, draggy gliders, and at least one had really speed-limiting
brakes (which in USA are called spoilers) as a safety fall-back. The
other may have been flying a glider with what we call spoilers (hinged
devices, little brake effect, they just spoil lift on the wing top
surface) – I don’t know what you call them in the USA to distinguish
them from the paddle-type brakes.


4. As for me – if I had tried cloud flying with no gyro, I wouldn’t
tell here anyway.

Regards – Chris

[Dan Marotta]

The FAA might also be interested in seeing that video with all the
identifying information...


"Sean Fidler" > wrote in message
news:827738.86.1333546415842.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynuu12...
+1. Pointless but +1!

I will happily pay anyone who can cloud fly (>/= 1500 ft gain) with the XC
Soar mobile phone AH data field (only XC soar, no other AH) a $1000 prize.
Just send me video of the act with clear audio describing your feat as it
happens. The video must be suitable to absolutely identify as you (the
prize winner) and must be complete with the time and date, witnesses, flight
location, aircraft registration (must be a contest glider) and of course
your pilots license... Your reward will be prompt and payment will be
honored! Good luck.

This offer is not valid for any real electronic AH system such as LXNAV or
Butterfly... Only dysfunctional and useless mobile phone or tablet based
(no real, fixed gyro's) installations of XC Soar with its 1cm square AH
display is valid. Happy thermals!

This offer expires in 90 days.

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 11:22:23 PM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:
> Thanks to Max and crew for making this version of 6.3 available for
> USA soaring pilots.
>
> Just downloaded the program for the Streak and hope to fly with it
> later this week.
>
> Your efforts are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!
>
> Thanks you.
>
> Mike Carris

[C-FFKQ (42)]

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 6:46:03 PM UTC-4, Sean F2 wrote:
> :-), I am sure my challenge could be achieved and probably was foolish to not also note (which I will now) that "this feat must be done in the USA."
>
> The point of my challenge is that the person while winning $1000 would be reported to the FAA and stripped of their licence almost without question. So nobody will do it.
>
Just to throw a fun bit of a wrench into your non-challenge, Sean, what about the case where a two-seat glider is flown by one of the pilots using an IFR hood and the other pilot as the "safety" pilot flying VFR if something goes amiss?. In this scenario, the pilot using the hood is effectively in IMC (the hood), but the safety would be in VMC and no actual cloud-flying need occur! However, is it legal to use a hood in a glider?

[Mike C]

On Apr 4, 1:08*pm, Max Kellermann > wrote:
> Mike C > wrote:
> > Thanks to Max and crew for making this version of 6.3 *available for
> > USA soaring pilots.
>
> I did not contribute to this version. *It is not an official XCSoar
> release, even though the publisher confusingly calls himself "XCSoar
> developers". *I will not provide support for this build.
>
> It's open source and that means anybody may publish modified versions.
> Power to the people :-)
>
> Max

Thanks for the experimental version Max
Thanks for the Horizon Disabled version Rob Dunning.
and thanks for the other experimental version by Peter Bradshaw.

Your work is appreciated.

I hope that covers everyone.

Mike Carriw

[Ventus_a]

;812635']Sean, Hi.

If I had the right sort of phone, I’d like to try your challenge over
in the UK. But I haven’t, so I can’t, so your challenge is safe from
me.

By the way, have you ever heard of people cloud flying successfully
without a gyro instrument at all?

Just wondering.

Chris N.

A guy in my club in New Zealand does. Not sure how but he doesn't have help from either a turn and slip or an AH. All done in modern composite gliders too not draggy old veterans

Colin

[Don Johnstone[_4_]]

At 04:36 05 April 2012, Mike C wrote:
>On Apr 4, 1:08=A0pm, Max Kellermann wrote:
>> Mike C wrote:
>> > Thanks to Max and crew for making this version of 6.3 =A0available
for
>> > USA soaring pilots.
>>
>> I did not contribute to this version. =A0It is not an official XCSoar
>> release, even though the publisher confusingly calls himself "XCSoar
>> developers". =A0I will not provide support for this build.
>>
>> It's open source and that means anybody may publish modified versions.
>> Power to the people :-)
>>
>> Max
>
>Thanks for the experimental version Max
>Thanks for the Horizon Disabled version Rob Dunning.
>and thanks for the other experimental version by Peter Bradshaw.
>
>Your work is appreciated.
>
>I hope that covers everyone.
>
>Mike Carriw

There is a very clever App for the iPhone which provides an AH. I have
tested this in the air and it does work provided it is set up to do so.
Having said that if I need to decsend through cloud I will stick with the
benign spiral.
I had a friend who regularly flew in cloud with no gyro instruments, it is
alleged he relied on a gimballing compass.

[bumper[_4_]]

On Apr 5, 4:51*am, Don Johnstone > wrote:
> At 04:36 05 April 2012, Mike C wrote:

> Having said that if I need to decsend through cloud I will stick with the
> benign spiral.


Benign becomes unbenign in turbulence.

bumper

[Don Johnstone[_4_]]

At 16:04 05 April 2012, bumper wrote:
>On Apr 5, 4:51=A0am, Don Johnstone wrote:
>> At 04:36 05 April 2012, Mike C wrote:
>
>> Having said that if I need to decsend through cloud I will stick with
the
>> benign spiral.
>
>
>Benign becomes unbenign in turbulence.
>
>bumper

If there was turbulence I would not find it necessary to descend though
cloud :-)

[PCool]

Those 6.3 are worth nothing because they are not released by the software
authority.
Which means that ideally anybody may take those "clean" versions and add
back the AH.
The software authority is declaring which version is approved for flight,
and how to verify it is the correct one.
A faked version will be different in size, different in checksums, and for
sure won't be downloaded from the official source.
Can pilot still cheat? Sure of course, unless the OO are checking each pilot
at the contests. But if caught, they have no excuses.
So eventually it will be the pilot to break the rules, not the software.






"Mike C" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
Thanks to Max and crew for making this version of 6.3 available for
USA soaring pilots.

Just downloaded the program for the Streak and hope to fly with it
later this week.

Your efforts are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!

Thanks you.

Mike Carris

[PCool]

Oh and before "someone" ask, yes it is possible to create a forked version
not released by xcsoar software authority.
In that case, it must be changed for name, and in order to be a real
software authority there should be evidences of a real organization, a
download and web site, and these kind of things. Otherwise we would have one
software authority every developer, and the RC may face hundreds of
authorities, each one with a different software name.



"PCool" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
Those 6.3 are worth nothing because they are not released by the software
authority.
Which means that ideally anybody may take those "clean" versions and add
back the AH.
The software authority is declaring which version is approved for flight,
and how to verify it is the correct one.
A faked version will be different in size, different in checksums, and for
sure won't be downloaded from the official source.
Can pilot still cheat? Sure of course, unless the OO are checking each pilot
at the contests. But if caught, they have no excuses.
So eventually it will be the pilot to break the rules, not the software.






"Mike C" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
Thanks to Max and crew for making this version of 6.3 available for
USA soaring pilots.

Just downloaded the program for the Streak and hope to fly with it
later this week.

Your efforts are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!

Thanks you.

Mike Carris

[[email protected]]

Last month, the XCSoar team considered and declined to publish a version of XCSoar with no horizon. For US competition pilots, I have published an unofficial version of XCSoar with no horizon called "XCSoar-rd No Horizon." The US Rules Committee has agreed to accept this version published and maintained by Robert Dunning (me) as a compliant version of the software for US competitions.

"XCSoar-rd No Horizon" is available for download on the Android Market; for non-Android devices at http://xcsoar-robd.wikispaces.com/XCSoar-rd+No+Horizon . This software is the current version of XCSoar patched to remove the horizon feature. I shall republish this version for each new release of XCSoar excluding alpha and beta releases. See the wikispaces for more info..

Personally, I'd prefer to fly with an artificial horizon in the unlikely event that I am forced into a cloud; but for now I choose to fly in competitions without one.

Rob Dunning

[Mike C]

On Apr 13, 7:17*am, wrote:
> Last month, the XCSoar team considered and declined to publish a version of XCSoar with no horizon. *For US competition pilots, I have published an unofficial version of XCSoar with no horizon called "XCSoar-rd No Horizon.." *The US Rules Committee has agreed to accept this version published and maintained by Robert Dunning (me) as a compliant version of the software for US competitions.
>
> "XCSoar-rd No Horizon" is available for download on the Android Market; for non-Android devices athttp://xcsoar-robd.wikispaces.com/XCSoar-rd+No+Horizon. *This software is the current version of XCSoar *patched to remove the horizon feature. *I shall republish this version for each new release of XCSoar excluding alpha and beta releases. *See the wikispaces for more info.
>
> Personally, I'd prefer to fly with an artificial horizon in the unlikely event that I am forced into a cloud; but for now I choose to fly in competitions without one.
>
> Rob Dunning

Thanks again Rob.