Short trip to Oshkosh

[Trent Moorehead]

Greetings,

Well, I went to Oshkosh last week and loved it. I spent about three hours in
the museum, not nearly enough, but it was enough to get a feel of the place.
The place was dead though. There was about 4 other people in the place
besides my friend and I. In a way this was neat because I could just imagine
how different the place is in July.

They are dismantling the Charles Linhdberg exhibit. One thing that I found
funny is that it was so quiet in that building, that the guy taking down the
studwall surrounding the exhibit had to set these aluminum studs down so
gingerly so not to make loud crashing sounds. I bet on a busy and noiser day
he could work a lot faster. I could hear everything that guy did no matter
where I was except in the warbird hangar.

Let's see, I flew the fighter simulator, but I couldn't find the Wright
Flyer simulator. I looked for a Docent to point me in the right direction,
but none were around. Oh well, maybe next time. I was really impressed with
the reproduction of Earnest K. Gann's writing studio. He led a really
interesting life. I will make a point to read more of his books. Oh, what
else.....The hangars at Pioneer Airport were absolutely beautiful. You just
don't see an airport like that everyday, it's a really special place.

Lastly, but not leastly, I looked from Friar Tuck's towards the control
tower and imagined planes as far as my eye could see. It was a very cold
evening, and the air was as clear as it could ever be. With the sun setting
in an orange and azure sky, I got back into my the car and vowed to make it
there for AirVenture some day soon.

On another note (completely off-topic, sorry), I visited the Pabst brewing
company in Milwaukee. It's all shut down now, but it is really a fascinating
building complex. The big brew houses are like ten stories tall and all
brick. The smaller and older office building (ca.1880) has an obvious german
influence with a cedar roof, stained glass symbology in the windows
depicting the beer-makers art, and large wooden doors. Some guy on the
street knew all about it and spent nearly an hour with me pointing out all
kinds of details and history. There's something about abandoned things that
is endearing to me. I wish I could get inside that place.

I'm definitely going back to OSH soon. I'm glad that I got to see some of it
at least....it's a very special place.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

[Jay Honeck]

> Lastly, but not leastly, I looked from Friar Tuck's towards the control
> tower and imagined planes as far as my eye could see. It was a very cold
> evening, and the air was as clear as it could ever be. With the sun
setting
> in an orange and azure sky, I got back into my the car and vowed to make
it
> there for AirVenture some day soon.

Good job. T-minus 8 months, 2 weeks and 1 day. See ya there!

> On another note (completely off-topic, sorry), I visited the Pabst brewing
> company in Milwaukee. It's all shut down now, but it is really a
fascinating
> building complex. The big brew houses are like ten stories tall and all
> brick. The smaller and older office building (ca.1880) has an obvious
german
> influence with a cedar roof, stained glass symbology in the windows
> depicting the beer-makers art, and large wooden doors. Some guy on the
> street knew all about it and spent nearly an hour with me pointing out all
> kinds of details and history. There's something about abandoned things
that
> is endearing to me. I wish I could get inside that place.

Isn't that place cool? I toured it, back when it was a working brewery. It
was a sad day when I read that Pabst had shut down -- even though I disliked
their product. If only they had stuck with their original German recipe,
they'd still be brewing today... :-(

Thanks for the PIREP.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ron Natalie]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:Bs6sb.170510$HS4.1379995@attbi_s01...

> Isn't that place cool? I toured it, back when it was a working brewery. It
> was a sad day when I read that Pabst had shut down -- even though I disliked
> their product. If only they had stuck with their original German recipe,
> they'd still be brewing today... :-(

Actually, knowing American tastes, they would have gone out of business
quicker if they'd stuck with the original recipe.

[Big John]

Jay

Is there a company that brews an 'original' German beer (like they
made in the 20's)? I can remember that taste back then growing up
(sipping from Dad's glass) and would love to get some with the strong
hop flavor they had.

Everything now is 'light' for the ladies and those who don't go out
and work with their hands year round.

Can remember landing and a jeep would meet the plane and hand out a
ice cold beer from a wash tub of cracked ice. Mech would hand to you
before you could get out of cockpit. Of course, sometimes it took a
beer before you 'could' get out of cockpit <G>

More beer stories. My boss was in a jungle E & E exercise and I flew
out in a U-10 with a ice cold six pack which I air dropped to them.
Referees said 'no fair and made them do that day of exercise over :o(

My boss had mixed emotions. The beer went down good after a week
living off the jungle but he had to spend another 24 hours out there
instead of home in bed with his wife :o(


Big John

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:35:13 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> Lastly, but not leastly, I looked from Friar Tuck's towards the control
>> tower and imagined planes as far as my eye could see. It was a very cold
>> evening, and the air was as clear as it could ever be. With the sun
>setting
>> in an orange and azure sky, I got back into my the car and vowed to make
>it
>> there for AirVenture some day soon.
>
>Good job. T-minus 8 months, 2 weeks and 1 day. See ya there!
>
>> On another note (completely off-topic, sorry), I visited the Pabst brewing
>> company in Milwaukee. It's all shut down now, but it is really a
>fascinating
>> building complex. The big brew houses are like ten stories tall and all
>> brick. The smaller and older office building (ca.1880) has an obvious
>german
>> influence with a cedar roof, stained glass symbology in the windows
>> depicting the beer-makers art, and large wooden doors. Some guy on the
>> street knew all about it and spent nearly an hour with me pointing out all
>> kinds of details and history. There's something about abandoned things
>that
>> is endearing to me. I wish I could get inside that place.
>
>Isn't that place cool? I toured it, back when it was a working brewery. It
>was a sad day when I read that Pabst had shut down -- even though I disliked
>their product. If only they had stuck with their original German recipe,
>they'd still be brewing today... :-(
>
>Thanks for the PIREP.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> If only they had stuck with their original German recipe,
> they'd still be brewing today... :-(

Actually, I read an article several months ago (don't remember where) that PBR
is alive and doing ok in a small way. They are one step or two above a micro-
brew these days.

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

[Jay Honeck]

> Actually, I read an article several months ago (don't remember where) that
PBR
> is alive and doing ok in a small way. They are one step or two above a
micro-
> brew these days.

Well, it's still available -- but it's hardly a microbrew. I think it was
bought up by one of the "McBrewers" -- Miller or Bud.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Is there a company that brews an 'original' German beer (like they
> made in the 20's)?

Well, Big John, your quest for good beer ends here:
http://www.sprecherbrewery.com/

Randy Sprecher -- a former Pabst brewmaster -- started his microbrewery in
Milwaukee, back in 1985, before microbrewing was popular. I've been
drinking it for probably 15 years, and it is the most amazing beer. Read
their history here at http://www.sprecherbrewery.com/sprhist.html .

As with all REAL beers, it contains just four ingredients: Water, hops,
barley and yeast. (No rice, please!)

Actually, an excerpt from the German Beer Purity Law of 1516 dictates the
following:

"Furthermore, we wish to emphasize that in future in all cities, markets and
in the country, the only ingredients used for the brewing of beer must be
Barley, Hops and Water. Whosoever knowingly disregards or transgresses upon
this ordinance, shall be punished by the Court authorities' confiscating
such barrels of beer, without fail."

Thus, Sprecher brews his beer that way. This not only makes it taste
better, but a side-benefit is that you can drink a fair bunch of it without
getting that horrible "Miller headache" that comes from consuming "beer"
that contains 27 chemicals, all designed to make the beer last forever.

Until a few years ago, Sprecher didn't even pasteurize the stuff, which
meant it had a shelf-life similar to milk. This was the absolute best beer,
but it didn't keep well, and it couldn't be transported -- so he now
pasteurizes it. I think it's lost a little bit of it's flavor -- but now I
can get it here in Iowa! :-)

(I used to have to fly to Milwaukee to fetch some once in a while. Along
with some good cheese, some fresh lake perch, and a couple of real Danish
kringles.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ron Natalie]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:Nrdsb.174069$Tr4.465123@attbi_s03...
> > Actually, I read an article several months ago (don't remember where) that
> PBR
> > is alive and doing ok in a small way. They are one step or two above a
> micro-
> > brew these days.
>
> Well, it's still available -- but it's hardly a microbrew. I think it was
> bought up by one of the "McBrewers" -- Miller or Bud.

Sort of. Heilman went around buying up the world (got the local Carling/National
brewery near me). The Stroh grabbed Heilman in it's attempt to homogenize
the American beer market. Eventually this fell apart and Pabst actually bought
the many of the brands. They got out of the "beer making" business. Miller brews the
Pabst brands under contract. Pabst is just a marketing company now.

Of course, many of the so-called microbrews are brewed by larger operations under
contract to the small brewery. Perhaps the most egregious of this is the Boston
Beer Company which brews Sam Adams. With small exception, all Sam Adams
is brewed by F.X. Matt (Saranac), who also brews beers for Brookly Brewery,
Dock Street Brewery, Mass. Bay Brewing, New Amsterdam Brewing, and Olde
Heurich. Of course this doesn't prevent Jim Koch for going around trying to
sue anyone who dares use Boston and Beer in the same sentence.

-Ron

Was testing the circle drawing code in our product and was sitting in front
of the screen going "take a ring, and then another ring, and then another
ring, and you then got three rings Balantine." My office mates (darned kids) had
no clue what I was talking about.

[Bob Fry]

"Jay Honeck" > writes:

> (...Along
> with some good cheese, some fresh lake perch, and a couple of real Danish
> kringles.)

Jay, c'mon...you're killing me man....

[G.R. Patterson III]

Big John wrote:
>
> Is there a company that brews an 'original' German beer (like they
> made in the 20's)? I can remember that taste back then growing up
> (sipping from Dad's glass) and would love to get some with the strong
> hop flavor they had.

There's a brewery in Pennsylvania that has a Bavarian brewmaster and makes a
beer that's very close in taste to the stuff they serve in Munich. I drank it
for a while after my brother and I returned from Germany. Haven't had it in
years and don't remember the name.

As I recall, it's available only in some areas of Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
Also costs about 150% of what a typical national brand costs.

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

[Big John]

Jay

Scanned the site.

What do you recommend for good 'old fashioned' beer? I note a bunch of
their beers they mixed in other ingredients and not just used the
stark minimum of what should be used for classic.

I'll look in the local stores for the brand and if I can find your
recommendations will try and report.

Big John


On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:52:28 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> Is there a company that brews an 'original' German beer (like they
>> made in the 20's)?
>
>Well, Big John, your quest for good beer ends here:
>http://www.sprecherbrewery.com/
>
>Randy Sprecher -- a former Pabst brewmaster -- started his microbrewery in
>Milwaukee, back in 1985, before microbrewing was popular. I've been
>drinking it for probably 15 years, and it is the most amazing beer. Read
>their history here at http://www.sprecherbrewery.com/sprhist.html .
>
>As with all REAL beers, it contains just four ingredients: Water, hops,
>barley and yeast. (No rice, please!)
>
>Actually, an excerpt from the German Beer Purity Law of 1516 dictates the
>following:
>
>"Furthermore, we wish to emphasize that in future in all cities, markets and
>in the country, the only ingredients used for the brewing of beer must be
>Barley, Hops and Water. Whosoever knowingly disregards or transgresses upon
>this ordinance, shall be punished by the Court authorities' confiscating
>such barrels of beer, without fail."
>
>Thus, Sprecher brews his beer that way. This not only makes it taste
>better, but a side-benefit is that you can drink a fair bunch of it without
>getting that horrible "Miller headache" that comes from consuming "beer"
>that contains 27 chemicals, all designed to make the beer last forever.
>
>Until a few years ago, Sprecher didn't even pasteurize the stuff, which
>meant it had a shelf-life similar to milk. This was the absolute best beer,
>but it didn't keep well, and it couldn't be transported -- so he now
>pasteurizes it. I think it's lost a little bit of it's flavor -- but now I
>can get it here in Iowa! :-)
>
>(I used to have to fly to Milwaukee to fetch some once in a while. Along
>with some good cheese, some fresh lake perch, and a couple of real Danish
>kringles.)

[Trent Moorehead]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:MKdsb.174142$Tr4.466739@attbi_s03...
> > Is there a company that brews an 'original' German beer (like they
> > made in the 20's)?
>
> Well, Big John, your quest for good beer ends here:
> http://www.sprecherbrewery.com/

Man, your killin' me. The Sprecher brewery was what I was trying to find
when I was driving through town, but I missed it somehow and ended up at
Lake Michigan. I turned south and saw some of the grandest mansions I have
ever seen. From there, I turned back into town and found Pabst.

In my neck of the woods, the brewery of choice is the Carolina Brewing
Company. They put on a tour every Saturday at 1:00 and they open the taps
for about two hours offering very good beer, usually two regular varieties
and one seasonal. One time I went, they had a tap with a big number "6" on
it. I asked what it meant, and it had a double meaning: It was their 6th
anniversary, but the beer was 6% alcohol (two pints of that and you're real
happy!) You don't even have to buy a glass, they hand them out. The place is
full of regulars that are there every Saturday. They usually sell enough
bottled beer and souvenirs to cover the costs, but more importantly, they
win converts to spread the word. I work with a whole bunch of Wisconinites
and I know where they are every Saturday at around 1:00!

-Trent
PP-ASEL

[Jay Honeck]

> I was in Milwaukee this week and found a beer that's even better than
> Sprecher. Try this:
>
> http://www.lakefrontbrewery.com/

Ah -- yet another reason to fly home! :-) Thanks for the tip!

> If you're there on a Friday or Saturday you can take a very friendly
> (and mercifully short) tour of the place and for $5 get a very nice
> souvenier pint glass and enough beer to destroy what's left of whatever
> day you happen to visit.

The Sprecher Brewery Tour used to go like this:

1. Brewmaster jumps on top of table in front of crowd
2. Brewmaster asks "Do you want the tour, or do you want to drink?"
3. Crowd shouts, in unison, "DRINK!"

End of tour. The beer taps would open, and the party would begin! :-)

> The *real* Danish kringles come from Racine, truth be told.

Ah, a true Kringle connoisseur, I see! Are you a "Lehman's" man, or an
"O&H" kind of guy?
:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Man, your killin' me. The Sprecher brewery was what I was trying to find
> when I was driving through town, but I missed it somehow and ended up at
> Lake Michigan. I turned south and saw some of the grandest mansions I have
> ever seen. From there, I turned back into town and found Pabst.

Well, if you were looking for their old Milwaukee brewery, that was the
problem. They outgrew that facility several years ago, and moved to
Greenfield -- a suburb just north of Milwaukee, right off I-94.

Sounds like your "home" brewery is doing it right, though. Those beer
tasting/tours are the best!

We just lost one of our local micro-breweries, "Stone City Brewing" up in
Solon, IA. (First town north of Iowa City.) They just never quite got it
together, after almost ten years of trying, and their beer never matched
the "mouth feel" of a truly good micro-brew. Flavor wasn't bad, but the
texture was wrong.

It's sad, but it's a tough market.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> What do you recommend for good 'old fashioned' beer? I note a bunch of
> their beers they mixed in other ingredients and not just used the
> stark minimum of what should be used for classic.

Well, your idea of "old-fashioned" might be different than mine. I like a
heavier, more "German" beer -- but not too chewy. Thus, I think the
Sprecher Amber is the best, and have been known to drive extraordinary
distances for it.

An aside. Didja ever notice how EVERYONE drinks "Light Beer" nowadays?
Sales of the stuff has just skyrocketed, and you see people drinking it in
ever bar you go to.

Well, whenever we'd throw a party at poolside this past summer at the inn,
we ALWAYS made sure to have a bunch of "Light Beer" on ice, too -- for those
who might prefer it. We naturally assumed it would be the "beer" of choice
for the majority, as it is in bars.

Well, guess what? When given a choice between that swill, er, I mean "Light
Beer" and REAL beer -- the "Light Beer" goes untouched. Apparently the
marketing in bars is quite effective, but -- when given a side-by-side
choice, real beer wins every time.

At the end of the season we used a whole bunch of that stuff to boil
bratwurst -- and it isn't even very good for THAT.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
>
> I'll look in the local stores for the brand and if I can find your
> recommendations will try and report.
>
> Big John
>
>
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:52:28 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> > wrote:
>
> >> Is there a company that brews an 'original' German beer (like they
> >> made in the 20's)?
> >
> >Well, Big John, your quest for good beer ends here:
> >http://www.sprecherbrewery.com/
> >
> >Randy Sprecher -- a former Pabst brewmaster -- started his microbrewery
in
> >Milwaukee, back in 1985, before microbrewing was popular. I've been
> >drinking it for probably 15 years, and it is the most amazing beer. Read
> >their history here at http://www.sprecherbrewery.com/sprhist.html .
> >
> >As with all REAL beers, it contains just four ingredients: Water, hops,
> >barley and yeast. (No rice, please!)
> >
> >Actually, an excerpt from the German Beer Purity Law of 1516 dictates
the
> >following:
> >
> >"Furthermore, we wish to emphasize that in future in all cities, markets
and
> >in the country, the only ingredients used for the brewing of beer must be
> >Barley, Hops and Water. Whosoever knowingly disregards or transgresses
upon
> >this ordinance, shall be punished by the Court authorities' confiscating
> >such barrels of beer, without fail."
> >
> >Thus, Sprecher brews his beer that way. This not only makes it taste
> >better, but a side-benefit is that you can drink a fair bunch of it
without
> >getting that horrible "Miller headache" that comes from consuming "beer"
> >that contains 27 chemicals, all designed to make the beer last forever.
> >
> >Until a few years ago, Sprecher didn't even pasteurize the stuff, which
> >meant it had a shelf-life similar to milk. This was the absolute best
beer,
> >but it didn't keep well, and it couldn't be transported -- so he now
> >pasteurizes it. I think it's lost a little bit of it's flavor -- but now
I
> >can get it here in Iowa! :-)
> >
> >(I used to have to fly to Milwaukee to fetch some once in a while. Along
> >with some good cheese, some fresh lake perch, and a couple of real Danish
> >kringles.)
>

[Snowbird]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<MKdsb.174142$Tr4.466739@attbi_s03>...

> Until a few years ago, Sprecher didn't even pasteurize the stuff, which
> meant it had a shelf-life similar to milk. This was the absolute best beer,
> but it didn't keep well, and it couldn't be transported -- so he now
> pasteurizes it.

You know, this puzzles me immensely. We home-brew, although we're
far from experts. We don't pasteurize our product before bottling
it *shudder*, yet it keeps for months. Actually we usually keep
a few bottles back to see how it ages, and it sometimes improves
with age!

So I must admit to being puzzled by the "shelf life of milk"
and "couldn't be transported" concepts.

Cheers,
Sydney

[Snowbird]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message >...

> Actually, knowing American tastes, they would have gone out of business
> quicker if they'd stuck with the original recipe.

Ain't that the truth. Our neighbors are 'beer conniseurs'. They
only drink 'Busch Lite'. My friend bought cases of imported beer
for some construction workers who did him a favor. They said 'we
love you man but we're not drinking your foofy beer, bring us
Budweiser!'

Q: How is American beer like making love in a canoe?

A:

Sydney

[Snowbird]

Big John > wrote in message >...

> Everything now is 'light' for the ladies and those who don't go out
> and work with their hands year round.

Oh, no BJ don't blame it on the distaff side.

The construction and mechanic types I know are the first to
require water in a can with a small amount of beer flavor added.

Me? I drink Guiness.

Cheers,
Sydney

[Trent Moorehead]

"Snowbird" > wrote in message
om...
> Big John > wrote in message
>...
>
> > Everything now is 'light' for the ladies and those who don't go out
> > and work with their hands year round.
>
> Oh, no BJ don't blame it on the distaff side.
>
> The construction and mechanic types I know are the first to
> require water in a can with a small amount of beer flavor added.
>
> Me? I drink Guiness.

I *love* Guiness. It's expensive though.

There are times when heavy beer doesn't do it for me. On a hot summer day, I
prefer crisp, American style lagers. The heavy beers don't quench my thirst
the same way and they're usually much more expensive. Now, if someone offers
me a free Guiness, I'm not going to turn it down! Thirst be damned!

-Trent
PP-ASEL

[Jay Masino]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> Well, your idea of "old-fashioned" might be different than mine. I like a
> heavier, more "German" beer -- but not too chewy. Thus, I think the
> Sprecher Amber is the best, and have been known to drive extraordinary
> distances for it.

The weird thing about people that like "old fashioned" German beer is they
seem to be such snobs about it. I personally think that "old fashioned"/
German/dark beers taste like crap. People have different tastes... like
the old saying goes... "that's why they make both chocolate and vanilla
ice cream".

> An aside. Didja ever notice how EVERYONE drinks "Light Beer" nowadays?
> Sales of the stuff has just skyrocketed, and you see people drinking it in
> ever bar you go to.

I prefer either Bud Light or Corona Light. When you're pounding back 8 to
10 beers, even a 20 or 30 calorie difference makes a diffence. But I
like lighter taste, too. I'll slam back a shot of whiskey if I really
need a bite.


> Well, guess what? When given a choice between that swill, er, I mean "Light
> Beer" and REAL beer -- the "Light Beer" goes untouched. Apparently the
> marketing in bars is quite effective, but -- when given a side-by-side
> choice, real beer wins every time.

I wouldn't be surprised if some people were bowing to peer pressure, since
you're always making such a big deal about "real" beer on the newsgroup.

-- Jay


__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !

Checkout http://www.oc-adolfos.com/
for the best Italian food in Ocean City, MD and...
Checkout http://www.brolow.com/ for authentic Blues music on Delmarva

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Masino" > wrote in message
...
> I prefer either Bud Light or Corona Light. When you're pounding back 8 to
> 10 beers, even a 20 or 30 calorie difference makes a diffence.

Eight to ten? Geez! There's not a beverage in the world of which I would
have any interest in drinking eight or ten in a row.

I'll admit, when you're not stopping to bother to taste the beer, I suppose
Bud or Corona (light or otherwise) is just as good as anything else. I
guess that's why those guys are still making lots of money.

Pete

[Tom Fleischman]

In article <K3rsb.179269$HS4.1489620@attbi_s01>, Jay Honeck
> wrote:

<snip>

> > The *real* Danish kringles come from Racine, truth be told.
>
> Ah, a true Kringle connoisseur, I see! Are you a "Lehman's" man, or an
> "O&H" kind of guy?
> :-)

O & H, of course...almond or apple are my personal favorites, with
chocolate a close third.

[Ron Natalie]

I've been to three breweries. The first was the Golden Colorado Coors plant.
As I walked in they asked "Do you want the short tour or the long tour?"
The long tour goes through the entire factory showing the brewing process
and ends in the "hospitality" room and gift shop. The short tour goes
immediately backwards through the gift shop to reach the hospitality room.

The Old Dominion brewery (at least in it's earlier days) used to have tours
on Saturday afternoon. You'd show up at the little bar in their lobby and the
president of the company would pour you a beer. People would stand around
drinking beer and eating pretzels until Jerry decided nobody else was going
to come, then you'd go out on the factory floor with your glass and there was
a brief description of the brewing process and the bottler. You'd walk over
to the kegging station where there were more beer taps and more tasting would
occur over Q&A.

[Dan Luke]

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
> Well, your idea of "old-fashioned" might be different than mine. I
like a
> heavier, more "German" beer -- but not too chewy.

No such thing as too chewy! Straight Guinness for me!

> An aside. Didja ever notice how EVERYONE drinks "Light Beer"
> nowadays?

Yeah, and EVERYONE likes thin crust pizza, too. Yech. These are the same
people who will only eat Wonder Bread.

> "Light Beer"
> At the end of the season we used a whole bunch of that stuff
> to boil bratwurst -- and it isn't even very good for THAT.

Filthy commie swill. I bet it sucked the soul right out of it.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Jay Masino]

Peter Duniho > wrote:
> Eight to ten? Geez! There's not a beverage in the world of which I would
> have any interest in drinking eight or ten in a row.

ok, maybe I'm exagerating a little, but when I go out to a nice Blues club
for 3 or 4 hours and listen to music...

> I'll admit, when you're not stopping to bother to taste the beer, I suppose
> Bud or Corona (light or otherwise) is just as good as anything else. I
> guess that's why those guys are still making lots of money.

You're not getting it. Some people actually prefer "regular" or light
beer, and think dark beer tastes like crap. Beer snobs never seem to
accept that different people have different (not bad) tastes.

--- Jay

__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !

Checkout http://www.oc-adolfos.com/
for the best Italian food in Ocean City, MD and...
Checkout http://www.brolow.com/ for authentic Blues music on Delmarva

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Masino" > wrote in message
...
> You're not getting it.

Maybe not. But it's hard to "get it" when you make absurd statements. 20
or 30 calories difference might make a difference if you are actually
drinking ten beers. But it's hardly worth worrying about if you're drinking
five.

Differences in taste, that's perfectly understandable. But why bring the
calorie issue into the picture, if it's not relevant at all?

Pete

[vincent p. norris]

>I prefer either Bud Light or Corona Light. ....... I'll slam back a shot of whiskey if I really
>need a bite.

Jay, there's really more "bite" in those highly-carbonated "light"
beers than in the darker beers. Guinness Stout has no "bit" at all.

What the darker beers have is more *flavor*.

vince norris

[Big John]

Jay

My English friends call American beer P*ss. Sometimes I think their
right <G>

Best I had in WWII in Pacific Theater and in the mid years in Sydney,
was Aussie beer. Higher proof and good taste. Had authority also.

Saw the Amber on their site and it looked close. Of course Dark and
Light are at opposite ends of my spectrum for regular drinking..

Did you see the BA crew that got taken off their bird for imbibing
within the 8 hour rule? One had had 10 pints (man after my own heart)
and was running pre flight check list in cockpit.

If I can find will try and advise from a expert pallet.

Big John

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:17:14 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> What do you recommend for good 'old fashioned' beer? I note a bunch of
>> their beers they mixed in other ingredients and not just used the
>> stark minimum of what should be used for classic.
>
>Well, your idea of "old-fashioned" might be different than mine. I like a
>heavier, more "German" beer -- but not too chewy. Thus, I think the
>Sprecher Amber is the best, and have been known to drive extraordinary
>distances for it.
>
>An aside. Didja ever notice how EVERYONE drinks "Light Beer" nowadays?
>Sales of the stuff has just skyrocketed, and you see people drinking it in
>ever bar you go to.
>
>Well, whenever we'd throw a party at poolside this past summer at the inn,
>we ALWAYS made sure to have a bunch of "Light Beer" on ice, too -- for those
>who might prefer it. We naturally assumed it would be the "beer" of choice
>for the majority, as it is in bars.
>
>Well, guess what? When given a choice between that swill, er, I mean "Light
>Beer" and REAL beer -- the "Light Beer" goes untouched. Apparently the
>marketing in bars is quite effective, but -- when given a side-by-side
>choice, real beer wins every time.
>
>At the end of the season we used a whole bunch of that stuff to boil
>bratwurst -- and it isn't even very good for THAT.

[Big John]

Ah, a man who drinks light beer and then Boiler Makers to make up the
difference <G>

Big John

On 12 Nov 2003 15:31:54 GMT, (Jay Masino)
wrote:

>Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> Well, your idea of "old-fashioned" might be different than mine. I like a
>> heavier, more "German" beer -- but not too chewy. Thus, I think the
>> Sprecher Amber is the best, and have been known to drive extraordinary
>> distances for it.
>
>The weird thing about people that like "old fashioned" German beer is they
>seem to be such snobs about it. I personally think that "old fashioned"/
>German/dark beers taste like crap. People have different tastes... like
>the old saying goes... "that's why they make both chocolate and vanilla
>ice cream".
>
>> An aside. Didja ever notice how EVERYONE drinks "Light Beer" nowadays?
>> Sales of the stuff has just skyrocketed, and you see people drinking it in
>> ever bar you go to.
>
>I prefer either Bud Light or Corona Light. When you're pounding back 8 to
>10 beers, even a 20 or 30 calorie difference makes a diffence. But I
>like lighter taste, too. I'll slam back a shot of whiskey if I really
>need a bite.
>
>
>> Well, guess what? When given a choice between that swill, er, I mean "Light
>> Beer" and REAL beer -- the "Light Beer" goes untouched. Apparently the
>> marketing in bars is quite effective, but -- when given a side-by-side
>> choice, real beer wins every time.
>
>I wouldn't be surprised if some people were bowing to peer pressure, since
>you're always making such a big deal about "real" beer on the newsgroup.
>
>-- Jay
>
>
> __!__
>Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
>http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !
>
>Checkout http://www.oc-adolfos.com/
> for the best Italian food in Ocean City, MD and...
> Checkout http://www.brolow.com/ for authentic Blues music on Delmarva

[Bob Fry]

"Jay Honeck" > writes:

> The Sprecher Brewery Tour used to go like this:
>
> 1. Brewmaster jumps on top of table in front of crowd
> 2. Brewmaster asks "Do you want the tour, or do you want to drink?"
> 3. Crowd shouts, in unison, "DRINK!"
>
> End of tour. The beer taps would open, and the party would begin! :-)

My brother-in-law in Olympia says he and his college buds would take
the Olympia Brewing Co. tour quite often...just to get the free beer
at the end. After a couple of years of this they could have given the
tour blindfolded. Sprecher seems more realistic.

[Jay Masino]

vincent p. norris > wrote:
> What the darker beers have is more *flavor*.

Yuck.


__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !

Checkout http://www.oc-adolfos.com/
for the best Italian food in Ocean City, MD and...
Checkout http://www.brolow.com/ for authentic Blues music on Delmarva

[Big John]

Jay

Article in Houston Chronicle today that they picked up from Orlando,
FL

Quote
Like chocolate and wine, the darker the beer, the better it may be for
your heart, according to a new study.

In a comparison of Guinness Stout, a dark beer, and Heineken, a light
beer, the darker brew had substantially more anti-clotting activity,
according to a U of Wisconsin-Madison scientist who presented his
findings at the American Heart Association annual meeting.

Guinness proved to be about twice as effective at preventing the blood
platelets from clumping and forming the kind of clot that can cause a
heart attack, according to the study's main author, John Folts, a
professor of medicine and nutritional director of the U of Wisconsin
Coronary Thrombosis Research and Vascular Biology Laboratory. The
beneficial effect comes from flavonoids in the beer.
Unquote

Guess your dark with the chewy flavor is the best for you to drink
after all <G>

John

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:17:14 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> What do you recommend for good 'old fashioned' beer? I note a bunch of
>> their beers they mixed in other ingredients and not just used the
>> stark minimum of what should be used for classic.
>
>Well, your idea of "old-fashioned" might be different than mine. I like a
>heavier, more "German" beer -- but not too chewy. Thus, I think the
>Sprecher Amber is the best, and have been known to drive extraordinary
>distances for it.
>
>An aside. Didja ever notice how EVERYONE drinks "Light Beer" nowadays?
>Sales of the stuff has just skyrocketed, and you see people drinking it in
>ever bar you go to.
>
>Well, whenever we'd throw a party at poolside this past summer at the inn,
>we ALWAYS made sure to have a bunch of "Light Beer" on ice, too -- for those
>who might prefer it. We naturally assumed it would be the "beer" of choice
>for the majority, as it is in bars.
>
>Well, guess what? When given a choice between that swill, er, I mean "Light
>Beer" and REAL beer -- the "Light Beer" goes untouched. Apparently the
>marketing in bars is quite effective, but -- when given a side-by-side
>choice, real beer wins every time.
>
>At the end of the season we used a whole bunch of that stuff to boil
>bratwurst -- and it isn't even very good for THAT.

[Jay Honeck]

> You're not getting it. Some people actually prefer "regular" or light
> beer, and think dark beer tastes like crap. Beer snobs never seem to
> accept that different people have different (not bad) tastes.

Actually, I feel the same way about people who claim to like "really" dark
beers, like Guinness or Oatmeal Stout. I think most dark beers taste like
sewage. I prefer a nice, crisp amber beer, with a good malty/yeasty
after-taste.

I also think folks who claim to like really dark red wines are nuts. I was
at a wine-tasting event last night (with Montblack, by the way -- he's
staying at the inn for a couple of days...), and people all around us were
raving about stuff that tasted like power steering fluid. I just don't get
it...

Let's leave it at this: On a really, really hot day (like after walking 10
miles at OSH) an ice-cold Bud tastes great!

But then, of course, so does ice water.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> > Until a few years ago, Sprecher didn't even pasteurize the stuff, which
> > meant it had a shelf-life similar to milk. This was the absolute best
beer,
> > but it didn't keep well, and it couldn't be transported -- so he now
> > pasteurizes it.
>
> You know, this puzzles me immensely. We home-brew, although we're
> far from experts. We don't pasteurize our product before bottling
> it *shudder*, yet it keeps for months. Actually we usually keep
> a few bottles back to see how it ages, and it sometimes improves
> with age!
>
> So I must admit to being puzzled by the "shelf life of milk"
> and "couldn't be transported" concepts.

Interesting. The reason we were told that Sprecher was limited in their
distribution area was because they didn't pasteurize their beer. As soon as
they started pasteurizing it, voila! -- we started getting it in Iowa.

I don't have any idea how you could make beer last months. Sprecher is
dated, and -- even now, pasteurized -- it tastes pretty icky after the date
on the bottle.

They were one of the first breweries to do this by the way -- I laugh when I
see Miller doing it now, like it's a new invention! (Especially when you
can keep a case of "Genuine Draft" in your garage for years, in hot or cold
weather, chill it -- and have it taste EXACTLY the same.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:aLSsb.193537$Tr4.545940@attbi_s03...
> I also think folks who claim to like really dark red wines are nuts. I
was
> at a wine-tasting event last night (with Montblack, by the way -- he's
> staying at the inn for a couple of days...), and people all around us were
> raving about stuff that tasted like power steering fluid.

You actually know what power steering fluid tastes like? I'd suggest that
if that's the case, you have bigger problems than whether to drink a fruity
red or an oaky red.

> Let's leave it at this: On a really, really hot day (like after walking 10
> miles at OSH) an ice-cold Bud tastes great!
>
> But then, of course, so does ice water.

Yup. On a really, really hot day after walking 10 miles at OSH, I'd
probably drink just about anything as long as it was served up at 34 degrees
F. :)

Pete

[Ron Natalie]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message ...

>
> You actually know what power steering fluid tastes like? I'd suggest that
> if that's the case, you have bigger problems than whether to drink a fruity
> red or an oaky red.

Can't comment on power steering fluid, but us Navion pilots know what
hydraulic fluid tastes like. We swim in the stuff.

[Snowbird]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<TSSsb.195700$e01.713989@attbi_s02>...
> > You know, this puzzles me immensely. We home-brew, although we're
> > far from experts. We don't pasteurize our product before bottling
> > it *shudder*, yet it keeps for months. Actually we usually keep
> > a few bottles back to see how it ages, and it sometimes improves
> > with age!

> Interesting. The reason we were told that Sprecher was limited in their
> distribution area was because they didn't pasteurize their beer.

Is it possible this is some Federal or State health regulation?
For example I know some states strictly regulate the sale of
unpasteurized milk and fruit juice. Others don't allow it at all,
much to the dismay of "health nuts" who don't wish to drink that
nasty unhealthful pasteurized stuff (ouch! got my tongue wedged
in my cheek there).

> I don't have any idea how you could make beer last months.

Well, at least in our case and the case of some other friends
who homebrew, you don't seem to have to do anything. We do the
primary and 2ndary fermentation, we make sure the bottles are
clean and free from soap, we bottle, we cap, we make sure they're
capped tightly, and that's it.

I can't comment on why the Sprecher tastes icky after its date.
Maybe a more knowledgeable brewmeister could. My SWAG is that
it has to do with specifics of the yeast (and other ingredients--
hops for example). The observation is that some of our brews
improve with age, some don't change much, some deteriorate.
The principle variables for us were the type of yeast used and
the ingredients. I know that some hops which we tried to store
for a while picked up an icky taste which transferred to the
beer.

> I laugh when I
> see Miller doing it now, like it's a new invention! (Especially when you
> can keep a case of "Genuine Draft" in your garage for years, in hot or cold
> weather, chill it -- and have it taste EXACTLY the same.)

Yeah, Budweiser too. What a joke!

Cheers,
Sydney

[G.R. Patterson III]

Big John wrote:
>
> Like chocolate and wine, the darker the beer, the better it may be for
> your heart, according to a new study.

Yeah - in general, the worse it tastes, the better it is for you? That's what
they used to think about butter versus margarine.

IMO, the more education they have, the less they know about what's good for
you.

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

[Jay Masino]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> I also think folks who claim to like really dark red wines are nuts. I was
> at a wine-tasting event last night (with Montblack, by the way -- he's
> staying at the inn for a couple of days...), and people all around us were
> raving about stuff that tasted like power steering fluid. I just don't get
> it...

When I read this, I had to break into a big smile. Wouldn't you know it?
I'm a big Chianti fanatic! I think it's in my blood (100% italian). :-)

-- Jay


__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !

Checkout http://www.oc-adolfos.com/
for the best Italian food in Ocean City, MD and...
Checkout http://www.brolow.com/ for authentic Blues music on Delmarva

[Jay Honeck]

> When I read this, I had to break into a big smile. Wouldn't you know it?
> I'm a big Chianti fanatic! I think it's in my blood (100% italian). :-)

Hmmm. I'm German, and like German beer. You're Italian, and like red wine.

I think we've discovered the obvious here?

(Maybe we should apply for a gubmint grant? They seem to get millions for
these kinds of "studies" all the time! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ron Natalie]

"Snowbird" > wrote in message om...

> Is it possible this is some Federal or State health regulation?

No. There are a lot of people making unpasturized beer. Pathogens
that grow in beer aren't very common. The main reason beer is pasturized
is to make it more shelf stable from a taste standpoint. By cooking the
stuff to death, Bud is as skunky three months from now as it is the day
it is canned.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Snowbird wrote:
>
> Is it possible this is some Federal or State health regulation?

Probably State. Many of the northeastern States use health regulations to get
around the Federal control over interstate commerce and establish defacto
trade restrictions. The main target is dairy products, but there are others.
This is less true in the midwest, but it's still there. Lots of States have
regulations deliberately interfering with the "importation" of Wisconsin dairy
products, for example. In fact, the Feds also have one, but this is a nearly
unique example of this sort of thing among Federal regulations.

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

[Paul Sengupta]

We usually call it "making love in a canoe".

Because it's ****ing close to water.

Paul

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> My English friends call American beer P*ss. Sometimes I think their
> right <G>