Pirep Dayton OH

[Jeff Franks]

Went to the USAF Museum this past weekend in Dayton. GREAT place. LOTS of
aviation history in that place. Especially, the X planes and such. Also
has a "Presidential" hanger with most of the past Air Force One's.
(Columbine III, Independence, SAM 26000, etc).

Even walked into one hanger to see the XB-70 Valkyrie staring me down
(wicked looking plane). And among all the other planes, it was almost just
an afterthought ("oh yeah, there's the XB-70, too....ho hum").

If your in the area be sure to get by there. I've been to lots of air
museum's and I'd put that one in the top 2 or 3.

And best of all IT'S FREE!...thanks to the federal government.

Jeff

[Jay Honeck]

> If your in the area be sure to get by there. I've been to lots of air
> museum's and I'd put that one in the top 2 or 3.

How would you rate 'em? My rankings would be:

1. USAF Museum in Dayton
2. National Air & Space Museum in D.C.
3. SAC Museum in Omaha.

This will almost certainly change when the NASM puts more planes on display.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jeff Franks]

I've never been to Omaha, so I can't speak to it.

My favorite is/was the Garber facility (part of the NASM in DC). If you've
never been there, you have to take a bus (or taxi) at the back side of the
main NASM building. Its the warehouse that they store all of the stuff
that's not on the floor of the NASM. They also do all the restorations and
all there. Now with the new facility opening at the airport, I don't know
how much will be at the Garber site. The time I was there, they had
building after building of old airplanes just sitting around. Wasn't a
museum setup by any stretch. More like the "Aeromart" at OSH, but with full
planes and history to boot :)

As much as I'm glad to see them get these things out in the display area, it
will be a shame if the Garber buildings are emptied. It's really a aviation
lovers dream. You'd be walking along stepping around a pile of aluminum and
bump into the Enola Gay lol.

As for pure quality of the display planes, I'd put the EAA's up at the top.
The USAF and USN Museums seem to care less about the display quality of the
paint and such. Some of the planes look as if they were just pulled out of
the desert right before they were crushed....er..demilitarized.

Anyway, your question. Overall enjoyment of the museum from all aspects:

1. NASM, DC (if you let me include Garber)
2. USAF, Dayton
3. EAA, Oshkosh
4. USN, Pensacola

Again, it all depends on what you want to look at :0

Jeff



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:kKcsb.175666$e01.613975@attbi_s02...
> > If your in the area be sure to get by there. I've been to lots of air
> > museum's and I'd put that one in the top 2 or 3.
>
> How would you rate 'em? My rankings would be:
>
> 1. USAF Museum in Dayton
> 2. National Air & Space Museum in D.C.
> 3. SAC Museum in Omaha.
>
> This will almost certainly change when the NASM puts more planes on
display.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Carl Orton]

Anyone ever visit the museum at Hill AFB in Ogden? Saw it this summer -
much better than I would have thought. Not on the scale of Dayton or NASM,
but several large hangars, and quite a few birds weathering outside (pity).


"Jeff Franks" > wrote in message
...
> Went to the USAF Museum this past weekend in Dayton. GREAT place. LOTS of
> aviation history in that place. Especially, the X planes and such. Also
> has a "Presidential" hanger with most of the past Air Force One's.
> (Columbine III, Independence, SAM 26000, etc).
>
> Even walked into one hanger to see the XB-70 Valkyrie staring me down
> (wicked looking plane). And among all the other planes, it was almost
just
> an afterthought ("oh yeah, there's the XB-70, too....ho hum").
>
> If your in the area be sure to get by there. I've been to lots of air
> museum's and I'd put that one in the top 2 or 3.
>
> And best of all IT'S FREE!...thanks to the federal government.
>
> Jeff
>
>

[Jack Allison]

Not an actual visit but got an approx. 10,000 MSL view as we were getting
ready to head through Webber canyon on our way to OSH. I actually didn't
realize it at the time as I was flying. Looking at trip pictures
afterwards, however, it was obvious that there was a decent museum there.
Hmmm, if we ever get stuck in Ogden and need to kill some time, we'll have
to make the trip to the base.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[David CL Francis]

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 at 14:01:19 in message
>, Jeff Franks
> wrote:
>Went to the USAF Museum this past weekend in Dayton. GREAT place. LOTS of
>aviation history in that place. Especially, the X planes and such. Also
>has a "Presidential" hanger with most of the past Air Force One's.
>(Columbine III, Independence, SAM 26000, etc).
>
>Even walked into one hanger to see the XB-70 Valkyrie staring me down
>(wicked looking plane). And among all the other planes, it was almost just
>an afterthought ("oh yeah, there's the XB-70, too....ho hum").
>
>If your in the area be sure to get by there. I've been to lots of air
>museum's and I'd put that one in the top 2 or 3.
>
>And best of all IT'S FREE!...thanks to the federal government.
>
I agree with all that! I have been there twice and I live in Bristol
England! Only one thing I would criticise is the rather poor food on
offer! A day is not really enough time to study everything.

A great experience.
--
David CL Francis

[Jeff Franks]

Agreed. If your like me - you like to read most everything and study each
exhibit, its definitely a 2 day musuem. We got through it in a day, but we
really didn't look at everything as close as I like.

And yes. The cafeteria food is....well....lacking. It will keep you from
starving to death, but thats about all I can say.



> I agree with all that! I have been there twice and I live in Bristol
> England! Only one thing I would criticise is the rather poor food on
> offer! A day is not really enough time to study everything.
>
> A great experience.
> --
> David CL Francis

[Big John]

Jeff

Add the Boeing one just north of Seattle. Lots of birds (many old
one's) and you walk around and are close enough to touch. I talked to
the group working on their F-104 and leaned on it as I told them some
War Stories they didn't know about The midgets and some early
operational problems the first 104 Sq at Hamilton AFB had.

On the USAF Museum at W/P, they also have a lot of memorabilia. For
example I sent them a copy of the only surviving copy of the the
Ashyia Song Book of Fighter Pilot Drinking Songs from the Pacific area
in WWII (dirty, dirty, dirty :o) The one on the cover was "Don't burn
the S*** H**** down.....or we'll have to go (S***) on the floor" Theme
song of 8th Fighter Group. (P-51's). I have queried them at W/P on
numerous occasions and they were able or research and answer my
questions.

I just hope all the museums continue to obtain financing so they will
stay open for decades.

Big John


On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:34:40 -0600, "Jeff Franks"
> wrote:

>I've never been to Omaha, so I can't speak to it.
>
>My favorite is/was the Garber facility (part of the NASM in DC). If you've
>never been there, you have to take a bus (or taxi) at the back side of the
>main NASM building. Its the warehouse that they store all of the stuff
>that's not on the floor of the NASM. They also do all the restorations and
>all there. Now with the new facility opening at the airport, I don't know
>how much will be at the Garber site. The time I was there, they had
>building after building of old airplanes just sitting around. Wasn't a
>museum setup by any stretch. More like the "Aeromart" at OSH, but with full
>planes and history to boot :)
>
>As much as I'm glad to see them get these things out in the display area, it
>will be a shame if the Garber buildings are emptied. It's really a aviation
>lovers dream. You'd be walking along stepping around a pile of aluminum and
>bump into the Enola Gay lol.
>
>As for pure quality of the display planes, I'd put the EAA's up at the top.
>The USAF and USN Museums seem to care less about the display quality of the
>paint and such. Some of the planes look as if they were just pulled out of
>the desert right before they were crushed....er..demilitarized.
>
>Anyway, your question. Overall enjoyment of the museum from all aspects:
>
>1. NASM, DC (if you let me include Garber)
>2. USAF, Dayton
>3. EAA, Oshkosh
>4. USN, Pensacola
>
>Again, it all depends on what you want to look at :0
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>news:kKcsb.175666$e01.613975@attbi_s02...
>> > If your in the area be sure to get by there. I've been to lots of air
>> > museum's and I'd put that one in the top 2 or 3.
>>
>> How would you rate 'em? My rankings would be:
>>
>> 1. USAF Museum in Dayton
>> 2. National Air & Space Museum in D.C.
>> 3. SAC Museum in Omaha.
>>
>> This will almost certainly change when the NASM puts more planes on
>display.
>> --
>> Jay Honeck
>> Iowa City, IA
>> Pathfinder N56993
>> www.AlexisParkInn.com
>> "Your Aviation Destination"
>>
>>
>

[B S D Chapman]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:20:33 -0000, Paul Sengupta
> wrote:

> Are you going to Filton next Monday to watch Concorde arrive?
>
> Anyone know if we can fly in there? I expect it would be very
> popular and may have strict numbers...probably all booked by
> now.

We're going to fly out of Enstone for the occation. Not to land at
Filton, but just to hang around in the overhead etc.


>
> Paul
>
> "David CL Francis" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I live in Bristol England!
>
>



--

Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

[David CL Francis]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 at 10:47:57 in message
>, B S D Chapman
> wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:20:33 -0000, Paul Sengupta
> wrote:
>
>> Are you going to Filton next Monday to watch Concorde arrive?
>>
>> Anyone know if we can fly in there? I expect it would be very
>> popular and may have strict numbers...probably all booked by
>> now.
>
>We're going to fly out of Enstone for the occation. Not to land at
>Filton, but just to hang around in the overhead etc.
>
Sorry, I missed your post Paul and could not find it again. Depending on
the weather I hope to find a spot but the final flight pattern has not
been published. 3000 people have been invited to Filton but it is
probably not the best place to go without one. The A38 through Filton
will be closed during the approach and landing and there will be 'no
stopping' enforced.

There is some G.A. flying in Filton but most of it seems to be light
commercial twins. I am guessing but I think prior permission is probably
needed.

I was there at the first Concorde take off from Filton but I elected to
join a party listening to the radio link rather than watch.

I did get a ride later and did a write up of the 3.5 hour flight. I have
posted it before somewhere but I may put it on my WEB page. If so I will
post the URL here. I was lucky enough to get to know Brian Trubshaw
quite well after he stopped flying. I live about 12 miles from Filton.
>

--
David CL Francis

[Tim Ward]

"David CL Francis" > wrote in message
...
>
> I was there at the first Concorde take off from Filton but I elected to
> join a party listening to the radio link rather than watch.

We (living in Bristol at the time) decided to get away from it all and spend
that day at Chepstow Castle ... and got a good view of Concorde as it turned
more or less over us.

--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Ltd - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor

[Paul Sengupta]

Sorry, Wednesday...

Paul

"Paul Sengupta" > wrote in message
...
> Are you going to Filton next Monday to watch Concorde arrive?

[Paul Sengupta]

As I said in another post, I went to see it take off, didn't go to see it
land.
A sad day. Did you see it? Filton weren't allowing arrivals at all on the
day and there was a NOTAM with a 7 mile 4000ft restriction.

Must have been great when it first started flying. All the hopes and dreams
of the future. It was a year before I was born. My "defining moment" as
far as Concorde was concerned was when Blue Peter (children's TV
programme for those reading outside the UK) had live (?) coverage of
when the BA and Air France Concordes flew transatlantic and met
nose to nose...1977?

What was Brian like as a person? I've read his autobiography and would
have loved to have been able to sit and listen to his stories in person.
I've
met Bob Hoover, now I want to meet Neville Duke, Chuck Yeager, and
maybe Neil Amstrong :-) ... just to say I've met them. Read Bob Hoover
and Chuck Yeager's autobiographies, in the middle of reading Neville Duke's.
One chap I work with occasionally at Brooklands Museum is Spud, who
was Barnes Wallace's assistant. He's now 86 (? Something like that) and
he's been working on the site since he was 14!

Paul

"David CL Francis" > wrote in message
...
> Sorry, I missed your post Paul and could not find it again. Depending on
> the weather I hope to find a spot but the final flight pattern has not
> been published. 3000 people have been invited to Filton but it is
> probably not the best place to go without one. The A38 through Filton
> will be closed during the approach and landing and there will be 'no
> stopping' enforced.
>
> There is some G.A. flying in Filton but most of it seems to be light
> commercial twins. I am guessing but I think prior permission is probably
> needed.
>
> I was there at the first Concorde take off from Filton but I elected to
> join a party listening to the radio link rather than watch.
>
> I did get a ride later and did a write up of the 3.5 hour flight. I have
> posted it before somewhere but I may put it on my WEB page. If so I will
> post the URL here. I was lucky enough to get to know Brian Trubshaw
> quite well after he stopped flying. I live about 12 miles from Filton.

[David CL Francis]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 at 14:15:47 in message
>, Paul Sengupta
> wrote:

>As I said in another post, I went to see it take off, didn't go to see it
>land.
>A sad day. Did you see it? Filton weren't allowing arrivals at all on the
>day and there was a NOTAM with a 7 mile 4000ft restriction.
>
Yes we saw it, I posted separately.

>Must have been great when it first started flying. All the hopes and dreams
>of the future. It was a year before I was born. My "defining moment" as
>far as Concorde was concerned was when Blue Peter (children's TV
>programme for those reading outside the UK) had live (?) coverage of
>when the BA and Air France Concordes flew transatlantic and met
>nose to nose...1977?
>
Yes it was but the oil crisis which sent fuel prices soaring and the
activities of the anti people, here and in the USA and that no country
would allow supersonic flight over its land meant that it would never
sell enough to recoup its costs.

>What was Brian like as a person? I've read his autobiography and would
>have loved to have been able to sit and listen to his stories in person.

He was great and very kind, however he was not very talkative. If you
met him in the street you might well think he was a successful farmer
rather than a test pilot. I knew him best when he was General manager
at Filton and I did a similar job in the weapons division.
>I've
>met Bob Hoover, now I want to meet Neville Duke, Chuck Yeager, and
>maybe Neil Amstrong :-) ... just to say I've met them. Read Bob Hoover
>and Chuck Yeager's autobiographies, in the middle of reading Neville Duke's.
>One chap I work with occasionally at Brooklands Museum is Spud, who
>was Barnes Wallace's assistant. He's now 86 (? Something like that) and
>he's been working on the site since he was 14!

I have a friend in Philadelphia who is an ex test pilot, flight
instructor and Commercial pilot. He knew Chuck Yeager. Many years ago I
went to a talk in London by Chuck Yeager. I can't remember all the
details but at one point he said (referring to a flight when the
aircraft tumbled at high altitude), "After I uncaged my eyeballs!"

In the summer I visited the Neil Armstrong Space Museum at Wapakaneta in
Ohio which is his home town, quite a small town but he was born there
and I believe still lives there. The Museum is quite good.

If you want to see a few pictures and read some pdf files about my
Concorde ride and my short 'flight' in the Concorde simulator go to my
rather amateur web site at

http://www.dclf.demon.co.uk/
--
David CL Francis

[Big John]

David

My Concorde ride.

Was in Washington DC on business and was able to exchange my ticket
for one on the Concorde for an earlier departure from Dulles to DFW
(Braniff was flying that leg).

Was Xmas eve and Washington Wx was P*** Poor. We were driven out in
the 'buss' used at Dulles and loaded. Engine start and taxied to end
of runway.and sat there for 15-20 minutes in the cold and light rain.
I knew how much fuel the engines burned and began to wonder if we
would have enough to make the trip <G> After about 20 minutes the
Captain came on the speaker and said "there was freezing a few
thousand feet off the ground and that their rules required them to
have the duct heaters working and they weren't. Said they would
trouble shoot for a few more minutes and if they couldn't find the
problem they would taxi back and Mech would fix so we could get
underway."

We sat for a few more minutes and the Capt came back on and in a
jovial voice said they "had found the problem and it was the circuit
breaker which they reset and the heaters were working so sit back and
enjoy the flight".

Hearing this I was about ready to get out of the aircraft. If it took
the crew 25 minutes to check the circuit breaker on a inop electrical
circuit on the ground what would they do if they had a bad emergency
while airborne?

At about that time they started passing out the booze and that calmed
me down <G> A couple of Martini's before dinner always does.

Flight to DFW was at .98+ (no super sonic over the USA). Some people
were disappointed at not going super sonic but I'd been many times in
"Heavy Iron" so no big deal.

Landing at DFW was the smoothest I have ever sat through in a airline
bird. Couldn't tell when the wheels were rolling. Flew the nose down
for a smooth touch down of nose gear. This technique made up for the
problems at Dulles <G> Of course I'd been drinking Martini's (stirred
not shaken as Bond used to say) the whole trip (before, during and
after dinner).

Wished the crew a Merry Xmas and hopped the 'Cattle Car' (South West)
to Houston and my family.

Home before midnight Xmas Eve and a wonderful Christmas was had by all
that year with Dad home.

Big John

Braniff quit flying the DFW-Dulles leg shortly after that.


On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:32:27 +0000, David CL Francis
> wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 at 14:15:47 in message
>, Paul Sengupta
> wrote:
>
>>As I said in another post, I went to see it take off, didn't go to see it
>>land.
>>A sad day. Did you see it? Filton weren't allowing arrivals at all on the
>>day and there was a NOTAM with a 7 mile 4000ft restriction.
>>
>Yes we saw it, I posted separately.
>
>>Must have been great when it first started flying. All the hopes and dreams
>>of the future. It was a year before I was born. My "defining moment" as
>>far as Concorde was concerned was when Blue Peter (children's TV
>>programme for those reading outside the UK) had live (?) coverage of
>>when the BA and Air France Concordes flew transatlantic and met
>>nose to nose...1977?
>>
>Yes it was but the oil crisis which sent fuel prices soaring and the
>activities of the anti people, here and in the USA and that no country
>would allow supersonic flight over its land meant that it would never
>sell enough to recoup its costs.
>
>>What was Brian like as a person? I've read his autobiography and would
>>have loved to have been able to sit and listen to his stories in person.
>
>He was great and very kind, however he was not very talkative. If you
>met him in the street you might well think he was a successful farmer
>rather than a test pilot. I knew him best when he was General manager
>at Filton and I did a similar job in the weapons division.
>>I've
>>met Bob Hoover, now I want to meet Neville Duke, Chuck Yeager, and
>>maybe Neil Amstrong :-) ... just to say I've met them. Read Bob Hoover
>>and Chuck Yeager's autobiographies, in the middle of reading Neville Duke's.
>>One chap I work with occasionally at Brooklands Museum is Spud, who
>>was Barnes Wallace's assistant. He's now 86 (? Something like that) and
>>he's been working on the site since he was 14!
>
>I have a friend in Philadelphia who is an ex test pilot, flight
>instructor and Commercial pilot. He knew Chuck Yeager. Many years ago I
>went to a talk in London by Chuck Yeager. I can't remember all the
>details but at one point he said (referring to a flight when the
>aircraft tumbled at high altitude), "After I uncaged my eyeballs!"
>
>In the summer I visited the Neil Armstrong Space Museum at Wapakaneta in
>Ohio which is his home town, quite a small town but he was born there
>and I believe still lives there. The Museum is quite good.
>
>If you want to see a few pictures and read some pdf files about my
>Concorde ride and my short 'flight' in the Concorde simulator go to my
>rather amateur web site at
>
>http://www.dclf.demon.co.uk/