Approaches over a foreign country

[M. Tettnanger]

How many airports are there where you temporarily cross the
border during the approach?

I notice that Tijuana has an approach path over the SW
tip of the U.S., while Brownsville has an approach
over part of Mexico. El Paso also appears to have
approaches over Ciudad Juarez, but I have no idea
whether these are flown as short finals (remaining
in the U.S.)

Does each approach involve the foreign ATC agency, or
are there letters of agreement where, say, Brownsville
TX approach can control part of Mexico's airspace?

Mark

[C J Campbell]

"M. Tettnanger" > wrote in message
om...
|
| Does each approach involve the foreign ATC agency, or
| are there letters of agreement where, say, Brownsville
| TX approach can control part of Mexico's airspace?

It varies. Even though no part of Bellingham's approaches run into Canada,
the airspace is controlled by Vancouver.

[Brian Burger]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003, M. Tettnanger wrote:

> How many airports are there where you temporarily cross the
> border during the approach?

Canadian ATC (Vancouver Terminal & others) control a fair size chunk of
airspace on the US side of the Washington-BC border, actually. Aircraft
going into Blaine or Bellingham are going to be talking to Canadian ATC
during approach, not American. Blaine is actually inside Abbotsford (CYXX)
extended control zone, which extends a couple of NM south of the actual
border. (CYXX itself is only a couple of NM north of the border...)

For example, I can fly from Victoria Int'l (CYYJ) to Abbotsford, cut the
'corner' of the border, actually make landfall south of Blaine in
Washington state, and never talk to anyone but Canadian ATC. Victoria
Tower, then Victoria Terminal, then Abbotsford Tower.

I've heard that around southern Ontario, ATC boundaries cross the border
all the time. Detroit ATC controls airpsace above Windsor, Ont, AFAIK.

> Does each approach involve the foreign ATC agency, or
> are there letters of agreement where, say, Brownsville
> TX approach can control part of Mexico's airspace?

I assume it's all done by int'l letters of agreement.

Brian - PP-ASEL, Night -

[Greg Burkhart]

"M. Tettnanger" > wrote in message
om...
> How many airports are there where you temporarily cross the
> border during the approach?
>
> I notice that Tijuana has an approach path over the SW
> tip of the U.S., while Brownsville has an approach
> over part of Mexico. El Paso also appears to have
> approaches over Ciudad Juarez, but I have no idea
> whether these are flown as short finals (remaining
> in the U.S.)
>
> Does each approach involve the foreign ATC agency, or
> are there letters of agreement where, say, Brownsville
> TX approach can control part of Mexico's airspace?

The approaches to McAllen and Harlingen are kept over the US. Brownsville
traffic is probably kept over the US too, but not sure. Reynosa and
Matamoros air traffic stayed on their side of the river. I never seen too
many planes around the river except for border guard and sight-seers. As
long as you stayed on the right side of the river, there wasn't a problem.

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On 15 Nov 2003 20:33:29 -0800, (M. Tettnanger)
wrote:

>How many airports are there where you temporarily cross the
>border during the approach?
>
>I notice that Tijuana has an approach path over the SW
>tip of the U.S., while Brownsville has an approach
>over part of Mexico. El Paso also appears to have
>approaches over Ciudad Juarez, but I have no idea
>whether these are flown as short finals (remaining
>in the U.S.)
>
>Does each approach involve the foreign ATC agency, or
>are there letters of agreement where, say, Brownsville
>TX approach can control part of Mexico's airspace?
>
>Mark

Two of the approaches to EPM take me over Canada. Boston ARTCC controls
(even though I'm too low to talk to anyone during the approach <g>).



Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Martin Kosina]

> I've heard that around southern Ontario, ATC boundaries cross the border
> all the time. Detroit ATC controls airpsace above Windsor, Ont, AFAIK.

I remember talking to Toronto center for most of the leg over northern
Michigan, landing at Sault Ste Marie (still on the MI side). Its
probably opposite in other spots, like you say, maybe depends on radar
coverage due to geography, prevailing traffic, etc.

One funny story on that trip was that coming back the same route from
Ottawa, I was using Canadian enroute charts for a segment from Sault
Ste Marie to Rheinlander (WI), which, eventhough current, didn't
reflect a not-so-recent airway change. The American controller kept
telling me I was getting of course, and I was getting increasingly
confused. We finally sorted it out, the new airway had the same V-
number but bypassed a VOR where it previously made a dogleg. So I
guess that's a lesson for border flying, use the home country's charts
if you can, the system may seem transparent around the fence, but some
changes can take a while to propagate to both sides.

[Kevin McCue]

Douglas, AZ. Uncontrolled but must approach over Mexico. Threshold is the
border.

--
Kevin McCue
KRYN
'47 Luscombe 8E
Rans S-17 (for sale)




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