PowerFlARM at R5N Perry

[Ben[_4_]]

How did PowerFLARM perform at Perry? Understand Dave Nadler was there
as the PowerFLARM rep to address concerns raised at the Seniors. What
up Dave?

FLARM works exceptionally well in Europe. Other than frequency, what
is the difference in the USA unit. Did the FCC require the FLARM
technology be changed for the USA unit?

[Dave Nadler]

On Sunday, April 22, 2012 10:17:46 PM UTC-4, Ben wrote:
> How did PowerFLARM perform at Perry? Understand Dave Nadler was there
> as the PowerFLARM rep to address concerns raised at the Seniors. What
> up Dave?

I will post something later today, stand by...

> FLARM works exceptionally well in Europe. Other than frequency, what
> is the difference in the USA unit. Did the FCC require the FLARM
> technology be changed for the USA unit?

FLARM v5 conforms to FCC requirements for frequency use and hopping.
PowerFLARM has a more powerful transmitter than older units, and
is FCC-approved.

See ya, Dave "YO electric"

[Dave Nadler]

On Monday, April 23, 2012 10:48:08 AM UTC-4, Dave Nadler wrote:
> I will post something later today, stand by...

Please see: http://powerflarm.us/2012/04/powerflarm-report-from-perry/

See ya, Dave "YO electric"

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 4/23/2012 7:42 PM, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Monday, April 23, 2012 10:48:08 AM UTC-4, Dave Nadler wrote:
>> I will post something later today, stand by...
>
> Please see: http://powerflarm.us/2012/04/powerflarm-report-from-perry/

Thanks for the report, Dave. It sounds like they are getting a handle on
the problems.

Is it acceptable to install the antennas inline, one behind the other?
Maybe leave the Flarm antenna on the box and mount the PCAS antenna
forward of it? That would reduce the visual impact to just one antenna
(it's not a big issue, as I'm getting used too two antennas, but seeing
just one would be nicer).

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Kimmo Hytoenen]

At 02:42 24 April 2012, Dave Nadler wrote:
>On Monday, April 23, 2012 10:48:08 AM UTC-4, Dave Nadler
wrote:
>> I will post something later today, stand by...
>
>Please see: http://powerflarm.us/2012/04/powerflarm-report-
from-perry/
>
>See ya, Dave "YO electric"
>
>

It bis clear that any metal near the antenna disturbs
transmit/receive. How about the pilot? some sources say, that
human body is practically invisible for 868 MHz radio waves, some
people say that if you install antenna behind the front pilot in
double-seater, the transmission is blocked by pilots head.

Clear answer would be appreciated.

-kimmo

[db_sonic[_2_]]

I am hearing news the PowerFlarm brick is released in the Europe? US
to follow soon??

[mattm[_2_]]

On Apr 24, 11:15*am, db_sonic > wrote:
> I am hearing news the PowerFlarm brick is released in the Europe? *US
> to follow soon??

The Powerflarm product page has pictures and prices on it (and also a
"pure"
version without ADS-B or transponder detection).

http://www.butterfly-store.de/

No manuals yet, though.

[John Carlyle]

On Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:15:33 PM UTC-4, mattm wrote:
> On Apr 24, 11:15*am, db_sonic > wrote:
> > I am hearing news the PowerFlarm brick is released in the Europe? *US
> > to follow soon??
>
> The Powerflarm product page has pictures and prices on it (and also a
> "pure"
> version without ADS-B or transponder detection).
>
> http://www.butterfly-store.de/
>
> No manuals yet, though.

They state that the delivery time is 6 weeks. No dimensions given, either.

-John

[mattm[_2_]]

On Apr 24, 12:58*pm, John Carlyle > wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:15:33 PM UTC-4, mattm wrote:
> > On Apr 24, 11:15*am, db_sonic > wrote:
> > > I am hearing news the PowerFlarm brick is released in the Europe? *US
> > > to follow soon??
>
> > The Powerflarm product page has pictures and prices on it (and also a
> > "pure"
> > version without ADS-B or transponder detection).
>
> >http://www.butterfly-store.de/
>
> > No manuals yet, though.
>
> They state that the delivery time is 6 weeks. No dimensions given, either..
>
> -John

Hmm, I wonder. A bunch of us preordered our bricks; do the 6 weeks
include
clearing that backlog of shipments, or is that when the preorders
start to ship?

-- Matt

[Evan Ludeman[_4_]]

On Apr 24, 3:29*pm, mattm > wrote:
> On Apr 24, 12:58*pm, John Carlyle > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:15:33 PM UTC-4, mattm wrote:
> > > On Apr 24, 11:15*am, db_sonic > wrote:
> > > > I am hearing news the PowerFlarm brick is released in the Europe? *US
> > > > to follow soon??
>
> > > The Powerflarm product page has pictures and prices on it (and also a
> > > "pure"
> > > version without ADS-B or transponder detection).
>
> > >http://www.butterfly-store.de/
>
> > > No manuals yet, though.
>
> > They state that the delivery time is 6 weeks. No dimensions given, either.
>
> > -John
>
> Hmm, I wonder. *A bunch of us preordered our bricks; do the 6 weeks
> include
> clearing that backlog of shipments, or is that when the preorders
> start to ship?
>
> -- Matt

US version must be FCC certified. I am told this has not happened
yet.

T8

[Darryl Ramm]

On Monday, April 23, 2012 9:38:07 PM UTC-7, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
> At 02:42 24 April 2012, Dave Nadler wrote:
> >On Monday, April 23, 2012 10:48:08 AM UTC-4, Dave Nadler
> wrote:
> >> I will post something later today, stand by...
> >
> >Please see: http://powerflarm.us/2012/04/powerflarm-report-
> from-perry/
> >
> >See ya, Dave "YO electric"
> >
> >
>
> It bis clear that any metal near the antenna disturbs
> transmit/receive. How about the pilot? some sources say, that
> human body is practically invisible for 868 MHz radio waves, some
> people say that if you install antenna behind the front pilot in
> double-seater, the transmission is blocked by pilots head.
>
> Clear answer would be appreciated.
>
> -kimmo

At these frequencies a human head is likely to have significant attenuation and putting a PowerFLARM or other similar devices (including PCAS receivers) in a two seater where its likely to be obstructed looking forward (where threat aircraft you might hit may be more likely to be..) is a bad idea. (You can Google for many documents on RF absorption of the human body). Another possible issue is metal components in front-seat headrests etc. And if the cockpit frame contains any metal parts (e.g. steel roll bars etc. -- I have no idea if common two seaters have steel roll bars in the canopy mid-frame) these may also be issues.

It seems a significant number of folks seem to be having problems mounting their PowerFLARMs properly hopefully this problem, can be reduced by revisions to the documentation. And the brick-version should make better antenna location easier for many owners--but I fear we'll still have a bunch of antennas installed below the glareshield buried amongst wiring, not vertically orientated, damaged/kinked coax, loose SMA connectors, etc ...


Darryl

[Dave Nadler]

On Apr 30, 4:51*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Monday, April 23, 2012 9:38:07 PM UTC-7, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
> > It bis clear that any metal near the antenna disturbs
> > transmit/receive. How about the pilot? some sources say, that
> > human body is practically invisible for 868 MHz radio waves, some
> > people say that if you install antenna behind the front pilot in
> > double-seater, the transmission is blocked by pilots head.
>
> > Clear answer would be appreciated.
>
> > -kimmo
>
> At these frequencies a human head is likely to have significant attenuation and putting a PowerFLARM or other similar devices (including PCAS receivers) in a two seater where its likely to be obstructed looking forward (where threat aircraft you might hit may be more likely to be..) is a bad idea. (You can Google for many documents on RF absorption of the human body)........... (etc, its Daryl typing)..... etc...



Yes, but, (wait for it, drum-roll)...
Some heads are thicker than others.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Monday, April 30, 2012 5:09:52 PM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Apr 30, 4:51*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> > On Monday, April 23, 2012 9:38:07 PM UTC-7, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
> > > It bis clear that any metal near the antenna disturbs
> > > transmit/receive. How about the pilot? some sources say, that
> > > human body is practically invisible for 868 MHz radio waves, some
> > > people say that if you install antenna behind the front pilot in
> > > double-seater, the transmission is blocked by pilots head.
> >
> > > Clear answer would be appreciated.
> >
> > > -kimmo
> >
> > At these frequencies a human head is likely to have significant attenuation and putting a PowerFLARM or other similar devices (including PCAS receivers) in a two seater where its likely to be obstructed looking forward (where threat aircraft you might hit may be more likely to be..) is a bad idea. (You can Google for many documents on RF absorption of the human body)........... (etc, its Daryl typing)..... etc...
>
>
>
> Yes, but, (wait for it, drum-roll)...
> Some heads are thicker than others.

Ugh your excused (it's Dave typing).

Darryl

[BruceGreeff]

Not thicker, just less permeable...
Idea attenuation is higher in these heads.

Conversely, and logically, certain heads have very low density and
nearly zero attenuation. Ideas pass unimpeded through these.



On 2012/05/01 2:09 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Apr 30, 4:51 pm, Darryl > wrote:
>> On Monday, April 23, 2012 9:38:07 PM UTC-7, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
>>> It bis clear that any metal near the antenna disturbs
>>> transmit/receive. How about the pilot? some sources say, that
>>> human body is practically invisible for 868 MHz radio waves, some
>>> people say that if you install antenna behind the front pilot in
>>> double-seater, the transmission is blocked by pilots head.
>>
>>> Clear answer would be appreciated.
>>
>>> -kimmo
>>
>> At these frequencies a human head is likely to have significant attenuation and putting a PowerFLARM or other similar devices (including PCAS receivers) in a two seater where its likely to be obstructed looking forward (where threat aircraft you might hit may be more likely to be..) is a bad idea. (You can Google for many documents on RF absorption of the human body).......... (etc, its Daryl typing)..... etc...
>
>
>
> Yes, but, (wait for it, drum-roll)...
> Some heads are thicker than others.

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771