Did you ever give up on an IR?

[No Such User]

I wonder if I have what it takes to get an instrument rating. I can fly
just fine when the air is smooth, but if there's any turbulence I can
last at most two minutes before I have to choose between taking off the
hood or losing my lunch. The general consensus seems to be that this
will go away eventually, but I haven't seen any sign of it.

So to all those pilots out there, how many of you gave up on an IR because
of motion sickness? How many of you started out getting queasy but
eventually got over it?

Also, in case you're tempted to offer your home remedy, I've already
tried the usual tricks, e.g., ginger, light eating, no eating, high-carb
eating, the electric wrist-strap gizmo. Nothing helps.

[John T]

"No Such User" > wrote in message

>
> Also, in case you're tempted to offer your home remedy, I've already
> tried the usual tricks, e.g., ginger, light eating, no eating,
> high-carb eating, the electric wrist-strap gizmo. Nothing helps.

Have you flown in actual conditions? If so, how did you fare compared to
the hood? My experience has been that flying in actual is easier for me
than flying with the hood.

Is taking Dramamine and similar drugs not an option? I haven't read the
labels, but Dramamine has worked well for family members who are prone to
motion sickness.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer
__________

[Jim]

Try several short flights and landing just as soon as you start feeling
queezy. I did all my IR work in Wisconsin, the winter, without a coat, and
with the heat OFF. That was the only way I could get through it. My
instructor froze his ass, but I was fine. Coldness still works for me, any
time I feel the least bit queezy, the heat and my coat go off. It happened
just last week doing rudder excersises in a Super Cub, even though the
outside air temp was 20 degrees, once I got my coat off and the heat off, I
was fine.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply


"No Such User" > wrote in message
...
> I wonder if I have what it takes to get an instrument rating. I can fly
> just fine when the air is smooth, but if there's any turbulence I can
> last at most two minutes before I have to choose between taking off the
> hood or losing my lunch. The general consensus seems to be that this
> will go away eventually, but I haven't seen any sign of it.
>
> So to all those pilots out there, how many of you gave up on an IR because
> of motion sickness? How many of you started out getting queasy but
> eventually got over it?
>
> Also, in case you're tempted to offer your home remedy, I've already
> tried the usual tricks, e.g., ginger, light eating, no eating, high-carb
> eating, the electric wrist-strap gizmo. Nothing helps.
>

[Maule Driver]

"No Such User" > wrote in message
...
> I wonder if I have what it takes to get an instrument rating. I can fly
> just fine when the air is smooth, but if there's any turbulence I can
> last at most two minutes before I have to choose between taking off the
> hood or losing my lunch. The general consensus seems to be that this
> will go away eventually, but I haven't seen any sign of it.
>
> So to all those pilots out there, how many of you gave up on an IR because
> of motion sickness? How many of you started out getting queasy but
> eventually got over it?
>
> Also, in case you're tempted to offer your home remedy, I've already
> tried the usual tricks, e.g., ginger, light eating, no eating, high-carb
> eating, the electric wrist-strap gizmo. Nothing helps.
>
I've had some long term problems with motion sickness. Only occassionally
under the hood in hot and bumby conditions. Never in actual.

Dramamine works but dull headedness may be a problem. Scopalomine patches
worked real well for me with no apparent side effects. I hear they may be
back on the market (?). If I was glider flying again I would scour the
world and find a lifetime supply. None of the rest of the stuff ever helped
me.

I definitely developed some psychological problems associated with motion
sickness. Certain kinds of weather would upset my stomach before I took
off. Having an effective treatment (Scopalomine) seemed to let me get past
the anticipation of air sickness. Hope that hasn't happened to you.
Perhaps try a different hood, different head position or try to get some
actual just to show that it might be easier than the hood. Confidence helps
but if you were like me, a bag is best.

[Jay Honeck]

> It happened
> just last week doing rudder excersises in a Super Cub, even though the
> outside air temp was 20 degrees, once I got my coat off and the heat off,
I
> was fine.

The REAL issue here is: How the heck did you get your coat off while flying
a Cub?

Last time I was in a Cub, it was pretty tight in there -- and I was wearing
a T-shirt and shorts, with the door off! I can't imagine squirming out of a
coat while airborne...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim]

I was getting some duel, so my instructor flew from the back seat.

Headset off, unzip coat, touch chin to chest, reach straight back over
shoulders and grab the back of your coat, pull the back of your coat up and
forward over your head so now you have your arms still in the sleeves and
are looking at the back of your coat with the collar between your wrists.
Now just pull your arms out of the sleeves and you have the coat in your
lap. Got it? :))

Works while driving too, if you can get your wife to hold the wheel ;)

--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:rkwub.41282$Dw6.185351@attbi_s02...
> > It happened
> > just last week doing rudder excersises in a Super Cub, even though the
> > outside air temp was 20 degrees, once I got my coat off and the heat
off,
> I
> > was fine.
>
> The REAL issue here is: How the heck did you get your coat off while
flying
> a Cub?
>
> Last time I was in a Cub, it was pretty tight in there -- and I was
wearing
> a T-shirt and shorts, with the door off! I can't imagine squirming out of
a
> coat while airborne...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Headset off, unzip coat, touch chin to chest, reach straight back over
> shoulders and grab the back of your coat, pull the back of your coat up
and
> forward over your head so now you have your arms still in the sleeves and
> are looking at the back of your coat with the collar between your wrists.

Ah, you must be younger than me. The last time I tried that maneuver in
flight, I got the coat over my head and was stricken with a terrible muscle
cramp in my right shoulder.

So there we were, flying high over the Midwest, Mary at the yoke (and
laughing hysterically, BTW), as I'm dying in agony with my coat stuck over
my head, unable to move...

It wasn't pretty... I now make sure my coat is OFF before departure. ;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[EDR]

In article <2nxub.240040$Tr4.703005@attbi_s03>, Jay Honeck
> wrote:

> > Headset off, unzip coat, touch chin to chest, reach straight back over
> > shoulders and grab the back of your coat, pull the back of your coat up
> and
> > forward over your head so now you have your arms still in the sleeves and
> > are looking at the back of your coat with the collar between your wrists.
>
> Ah, you must be younger than me. The last time I tried that maneuver in
> flight, I got the coat over my head and was stricken with a terrible muscle
> cramp in my right shoulder.
>
> So there we were, flying high over the Midwest, Mary at the yoke (and
> laughing hysterically, BTW), as I'm dying in agony with my coat stuck over
> my head, unable to move...
>
> It wasn't pretty... I now make sure my coat is OFF before departure. ;-)

You guys make taking a coat off too difficult.
All on has to do is reach behind with one arm, grab the cuff of the
opposite sleeve and pull your arm out. Reach around behind you with the
unsleeved arm, grab the cuff and pull the other arm out of the sleeve.

[Lynn Melrose]

John T wrote:

> "No Such User" > wrote in message
>
> >
> > Also, in case you're tempted to offer your home remedy, I've already
> > tried the usual tricks, e.g., ginger, light eating, no eating,
> > high-carb eating, the electric wrist-strap gizmo. Nothing helps.
>
> Have you flown in actual conditions? If so, how did you fare compared to
> the hood? My experience has been that flying in actual is easier for me
> than flying with the hood.
>
> Is taking Dramamine and similar drugs not an option? I haven't read the
> labels, but Dramamine has worked well for family members who are prone to
> motion sickness.

It's certainly not an option when you exercising the privileges of your
medical certificate.

[Michelle P]

Try it without the hood on.

If it still bothers you try seeing your Ear Nose and Throat.

The hood causes me problems when I am in training. I have over two
hundred Instrument hours and I still hate the hood. Try the Jepp Flip up
"Glasses" They seem to be better for me.

Michelle

No Such User wrote:

>I wonder if I have what it takes to get an instrument rating. I can fly
>just fine when the air is smooth, but if there's any turbulence I can
>last at most two minutes before I have to choose between taking off the
>hood or losing my lunch. The general consensus seems to be that this
>will go away eventually, but I haven't seen any sign of it.
>
>So to all those pilots out there, how many of you gave up on an IR because
>of motion sickness? How many of you started out getting queasy but
>eventually got over it?
>
>Also, in case you're tempted to offer your home remedy, I've already
>tried the usual tricks, e.g., ginger, light eating, no eating, high-carb
>eating, the electric wrist-strap gizmo. Nothing helps.
>
>
>

--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

[Chris Hoffmann]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
> George Patterson
> The actions taken by the New Hampshire Episcopalians (ie. inducting a
gay
> bishop) are an affront to Christians everywhere. I am just thankful
that
> the church's founder, Henry VIII, and his wife Catherine of Aragon,
and his
> wife Anne Boleyn, and his wife Jane Seymour, and his wife Anne of
Cleves,
> and his wife Katherine Howard, and his wife Catherine Parr are no
longer
> here to suffer through this assault on traditional Christian
marriages.

Good one. :)

[G.R. Patterson III]

Lynn Melrose wrote:
>
> > Is taking Dramamine and similar drugs not an option? I haven't read the
> > labels, but Dramamine has worked well for family members who are prone to
> > motion sickness.
>
> It's certainly not an option when you exercising the privileges of your
> medical certificate.

According to the AOPA medications database, the only motion sickness medicines
that are specifically prohibited are scopolamine and meclizine. You should
check with the AOPA medical hotline or an AME about others.

George Patterson
The actions taken by the New Hampshire Episcopalians (ie. inducting a gay
bishop) are an affront to Christians everywhere. I am just thankful that
the church's founder, Henry VIII, and his wife Catherine of Aragon, and his
wife Anne Boleyn, and his wife Jane Seymour, and his wife Anne of Cleves,
and his wife Katherine Howard, and his wife Catherine Parr are no longer
here to suffer through this assault on traditional Christian marriages.

[Dave]

>
> The hood causes me problems when I am in training. I have over two
> hundred Instrument hours and I still hate the hood. Try the Jepp Flip up
> "Glasses" They seem to be better for me.
>
> Michelle
>
The headband on the hood was always too tight and it gave me a headache. The
I would feel sick. Slackening the headband would cause it to fall down over
my face. The only answer was to fly in actual IMC head up.

[Lynn Melrose]

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

> Lynn Melrose wrote:
> >
> > > Is taking Dramamine and similar drugs not an option? I haven't read the
> > > labels, but Dramamine has worked well for family members who are prone to
> > > motion sickness.
> >
> > It's certainly not an option when you exercising the privileges of your
> > medical certificate.
>
> According to the AOPA medications database, the only motion sickness medicines
> that are specifically prohibited are scopolamine and meclizine. You should
> check with the AOPA medical hotline or an AME about others.

The absence of a drug on AOPA's medications database does not mean that it is safe
to fly while under its effects.

According to the PDR, "Dramamine may cause drowsiness. Be especially cautious
when driving, and when operating machinery." Dramamine 'Less Drowsy' has this same
warning.

FAR 91.17 says, "(a) No person may act or attempt to
act as a pilot crewmember of a civil aircraft…

(3) While using any drug that affects the person's
faculties in any way contrary to safety…"

I opine that operating as pilot in command while taking a drug that lists drowsiness
as a side-effect is contrary to safety.

The FAA says, "Pilots who are susceptible to airsickness should not take the
preventative drugs which are available over the counter or by prescription."
http://www2.faa.gov/fsdo/orl/files/advcir/P874041.TXT

AOPA says, "While pilots should avoid the use of drugs such as Dramamine to combat
motion sickness, there are a number of other options, such as the Relief Band,
manufactured by Woodside Biomedical Inc."
http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/article.cfm?article=4016 (membership required)

AOPA also says, "Because airsickness can be so uncomfortable, getting back into an
airplane again to accumulate additional experience can be a problem for some. The
most common solution to this situation is to try some anti-motion sickness drugs so
you can experience the stimuli without getting sick, allowing you time to adapt.
These drugs should only be used when flying with an instructor. Never fly alone
while taking any of these drugs, and always try them out beforehand to see if you
have any serious adverse reactions."
http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/article.cfm?article=2475 (membership required)

Your suggestion to consult your AME was a good one.

[Greg Goodknight]

It may be legal to receive dual instruction while taking Dramamine if your
instructor is apprised of the situation and is willing to be the PIC, and
you do not log the time as PIC. Logged dual time and simulated instrument
time does not have to be as PIC to be used to qualify for the rating.
Perhaps experiencing hooded flight without bad symptoms would help. Maybe
Foggies would also help, or a different hood.

I had to fly dual with a CFII for a couple of months while my med cert was
in the Twinkie Zone in OK City, in the aftermath of my Obstructive Sleep
Apnea disclosure. No PIC. No problem, besides not being able to use the
airplane for transportation. I believe any flight where you are not
medically legal to be in command can be handled the same way.

Good luck!

-Greg

PS I'm a lucky one. 84 hours of instrument time and no motion sickness or
signs of vertigo. Yet.

"No Such User" > wrote in message
...
> I wonder if I have what it takes to get an instrument rating. I can fly
> just fine when the air is smooth, but if there's any turbulence I can
> last at most two minutes before I have to choose between taking off the
> hood or losing my lunch. The general consensus seems to be that this
> will go away eventually, but I haven't seen any sign of it.
>
> So to all those pilots out there, how many of you gave up on an IR because
> of motion sickness? How many of you started out getting queasy but
> eventually got over it?
>
> Also, in case you're tempted to offer your home remedy, I've already
> tried the usual tricks, e.g., ginger, light eating, no eating, high-carb
> eating, the electric wrist-strap gizmo. Nothing helps.
>

[Kyle Clark]

Talk with your local Aviation Medical Examiner about techniques to cure
motion sickness. I know the AME at my school has techniques. I havn't had a
problem with motion sickness so I havn' talked with him about it.

Good Luck

"Greg Goodknight" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> It may be legal to receive dual instruction while taking Dramamine if your
> instructor is apprised of the situation and is willing to be the PIC, and
> you do not log the time as PIC. Logged dual time and simulated instrument
> time does not have to be as PIC to be used to qualify for the rating.
> Perhaps experiencing hooded flight without bad symptoms would help. Maybe
> Foggies would also help, or a different hood.
>
> I had to fly dual with a CFII for a couple of months while my med cert was
> in the Twinkie Zone in OK City, in the aftermath of my Obstructive Sleep
> Apnea disclosure. No PIC. No problem, besides not being able to use the
> airplane for transportation. I believe any flight where you are not
> medically legal to be in command can be handled the same way.
>
> Good luck!
>
> -Greg
>
> PS I'm a lucky one. 84 hours of instrument time and no motion sickness or
> signs of vertigo. Yet.
>
> "No Such User" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I wonder if I have what it takes to get an instrument rating. I can fly
> > just fine when the air is smooth, but if there's any turbulence I can
> > last at most two minutes before I have to choose between taking off the
> > hood or losing my lunch. The general consensus seems to be that this
> > will go away eventually, but I haven't seen any sign of it.
> >
> > So to all those pilots out there, how many of you gave up on an IR
because
> > of motion sickness? How many of you started out getting queasy but
> > eventually got over it?
> >
> > Also, in case you're tempted to offer your home remedy, I've already
> > tried the usual tricks, e.g., ginger, light eating, no eating, high-carb
> > eating, the electric wrist-strap gizmo. Nothing helps.
> >
>
>

[Big John]

Greg

Must have deleted the original posting from "No such user" (?) so will
post here and hope 'he' reads?

Motion sickness practicing instruments.

1. Hold our head STILL and just move your eyes for the cross check. If
you move your head the inner ear and the instruments disagree and this
can lead to vertigo and motion sickness. Have your ears checked for
any unusual or damaged inner ears.

2. Keep cockpit COLD and cold air blowing in your face. A warm (hot)
cockpit with the smells of the airplane can help give motion sickness.
This might mean that you would have to fly your instrument training in
the winter time?

3. Chew gum.

4. Keep busy. Talk to instructor, etc. Anything that takes your mind
off the motion sickness will stop or prevent it.

Do maneuvers that take mental concentration, ie., LEVEL turns (+/-
five feet). climbs and descents to specific altitudes at specific
rates. Intersect and track in and out bound. Approaches of various
kinds. There are a multitude of maneuvers that require concentration
on then and would take your mind off the motion and help prevent/stop
any motion sickness.
..
4. I agree with the comment that continued exposure will help stop
motion sickness assuming that you are not suspectable to sea sickness,
auto sickness, etc. and have a medical problem.

5. Go ahead and fly with an IP and take motion sickness prevention
pills, stick on patches, etc. Slowly decrease them as you continue to
fly. As you decrease them the body should start taking over until you
can quit altogether.

In closing. Good luck in your training and hope you get the rating and
are comfortable flying instruments.

Big John

On motion sickness experience. I used to catch rides in the back end
or a C-47 that was flying 3-4K in the midwest in the summer time. That
thing would swing and sway and it was hot and I puked every time.
Persistence and other things I mentioned cured me even though when I
was actively instructing in the T-33 in Arizona, a student could make
me queazy. I then took the controls for 5 minutes and demonstrated
something which calmed my stomach down and then gave bird back to
student.

Go get'm tiger :o)

BJ

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:33:55 GMT, "Greg Goodknight"
> wrote:

----clip----

>Good luck!
>
>-Greg
>
>PS I'm a lucky one. 84 hours of instrument time and no motion sickness or
>signs of vertigo. Yet.
>
>"No Such User" > wrote in message
...
>> I wonder if I have what it takes to get an instrument rating. I can fly
>> just fine when the air is smooth, but if there's any turbulence I can
>> last at most two minutes before I have to choose between taking off the
>> hood or losing my lunch. The general consensus seems to be that this
>> will go away eventually, but I haven't seen any sign of it.
>>
>> So to all those pilots out there, how many of you gave up on an IR because
>> of motion sickness? How many of you started out getting queasy but
>> eventually got over it?
>>
>> Also, in case you're tempted to offer your home remedy, I've already
>> tried the usual tricks, e.g., ginger, light eating, no eating, high-carb
>> eating, the electric wrist-strap gizmo. Nothing helps.
>>
>

[No Such User]

In article >, Big John wrote:
>
>Motion sickness practicing instruments.
>
>2. Keep cockpit COLD and cold air blowing in your face. A warm (hot)
>cockpit with the smells of the airplane can help give motion sickness.
>This might mean that you would have to fly your instrument training in
>the winter time?
>
I do this already, much to the discomfort of my instructor.

>3. Chew gum.
>
Never tried that. Don't know what good it would do, but I'm willing
to try anything.

>4. Keep busy. Talk to instructor, etc. Anything that takes your mind
>off the motion sickness will stop or prevent it.
>
Nope. It comes when it comes.

>Do maneuvers that take mental concentration, ie., LEVEL turns (+/-
>five feet). climbs and descents to specific altitudes at specific
>rates. Intersect and track in and out bound. Approaches of various
>kinds. There are a multitude of maneuvers that require concentration
>on then and would take your mind off the motion and help prevent/stop
>any motion sickness.
>.
This doesn't seem to work. I had been hoping that concentration would
stave off the nausea, but it never happened.

>4. I agree with the comment that continued exposure will help stop
>motion sickness assuming that you are not suspectable to sea sickness,
>auto sickness, etc. and have a medical problem.
>
This seems to be the consensus of all with experience with this.
Fortunately for my aspirations, no one replied with, "yes, I had to
give up on instrument flying." Most everyone who mentioned having
my problem said they eventually got over it. I'll keep clutching that
particular straw.

As for susceptibility, I suppose I'm a minor motion sickness case.
I can't read for very long in the back seat of a moving car, but I
can read all day on an airliner or a train, suggesting that it's all
frequency-dependent. I can ride around in a small boat with no problem,
but once it stops and just bobs on the water I start to get queasy.

>5. Go ahead and fly with an IP and take motion sickness prevention
>pills, stick on patches, etc. Slowly decrease them as you continue to
>fly. As you decrease them the body should start taking over until you
>can quit altogether.
>
I'll ask my instructor if he's cool with that.

>On motion sickness experience. I used to catch rides in the back end
>or a C-47 that was flying 3-4K in the midwest in the summer time. That
>thing would swing and sway and it was hot and I puked every time.
>Persistence and other things I mentioned cured me even though when I
>was actively instructing in the T-33 in Arizona, a student could make
>me queazy. I then took the controls for 5 minutes and demonstrated
>something which calmed my stomach down and then gave bird back to
>student.
>
Apparently, Chuck Yeager's first flying experience caused him to toss
his cookies, and somehow he got over it. Maybe there's hope for me yet.
If not, there's always my father's advice: "eat your dessert first--
it'll come up last and taste better."

[Don Tuite]

One other thought.

I know two people who tried hypnosis for other things. One guy used
it to get through nicotine withdrawal. The other guy stopped
stuttering.

The smoker, that was ok. He was motivated (new father) and he just
had to hold out for the withdrawal period. The stutterer figures it
was a mistake -- he was hardwired for stuttering and the hypnosis set
up a tension -- that finally broke when he experienced a big scare*.
He started stuttering again after that, but felt more normal.

If your motion sickness is a software problem, maybe hypnosis would
help.

Don
*He and his wife survived an airliner crash that killed other pax.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Lynn Melrose wrote:
>
> According to the PDR, "Dramamine may cause drowsiness. Be especially cautious
> when driving, and when operating machinery." Dramamine 'Less Drowsy' has this same
> warning.

The key word in there is "may". Try it. If it makes you drowsy, don't fly when
taking it. If it doesn't produce unpleasant or dangerous side effects when you
take it, go fly.

George Patterson
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something that can be learned
no other way.

[Craig Prouse]

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

> According to the AOPA medications database, the only motion sickness medicines
> that are specifically prohibited are scopolamine and meclizine. You should
> check with the AOPA medical hotline or an AME about others.

Dramamine = Meclizine HCl
(and that's the "less drowsy" formula)

I sailed in a yacht race a few years ago, and all the landlubbers who took
Dramamine were completely worthless. They certainly weren't sick, but they
were mostly asleep.

[Meriah Crawford]

I've used non-drowsy dramamine while scuba diving - a pretty strenuous
activity - and had no issues. Adrenaline was a factor, though, given that
they were my certifying dives.

Definitely a drug where everyone reacts differently.

Meriah...

"Craig Prouse" > wrote in message
...
> "G.R. Patterson III" wrote:
>
> > According to the AOPA medications database, the only motion sickness
medicines
> > that are specifically prohibited are scopolamine and meclizine. You
should
> > check with the AOPA medical hotline or an AME about others.
>
> Dramamine = Meclizine HCl
> (and that's the "less drowsy" formula)
>
> I sailed in a yacht race a few years ago, and all the landlubbers who took
> Dramamine were completely worthless. They certainly weren't sick, but
they
> were mostly asleep.
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Meriah Crawford wrote:
>
> I've used non-drowsy dramamine while scuba diving - a pretty strenuous
> activity - and had no issues.

Well, as Craig said, it's meclizine (which I didn't know). Since that's on the
prohibited list, it doesn't matter how you react.

George Patterson
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something that can be learned
no other way.

[Lynn Melrose]

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

> Lynn Melrose wrote:
> >
> > According to the PDR, "Dramamine may cause drowsiness. Be especially cautious
> > when driving, and when operating machinery." Dramamine 'Less Drowsy' has this same
> > warning.
>
> The key word in there is "may". Try it. If it makes you drowsy, don't fly when
> taking it. If it doesn't produce unpleasant or dangerous side effects when you
> take it, go fly.

And what medical testing would you use to determine if it did not produce any unpleasant
or dangerous side effects during flight? Your advice to "go fly" is bad advice and the
absence of a drug on the prohibited list does not mean that it is permitted. Don't take
my word for it, talk to your AME.

--
"Pilots who are susceptible to airsickness should not take the preventative drugs which
are available over the counter or by prescription."
http://www2.faa.gov/fsdo/orl/files/advcir/P874041.TXT

[G.R. Patterson III]

Lynn Melrose wrote:
>
> Don't take my word for it, talk to your AME.

I won't and I have.

George Patterson
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something that can be learned
no other way.