You know you are addicted to soaring when....

[[email protected]]

So I'm reading this thriller novel called 'Blowout' by Dorgan and Hagberg. It is set at a remote secret site in North Dakota, and the front cover shows a flat, featureless snow-covered plain with what looks like a chemical plant in the background. In the foreground, just above the title is a big helicopter, and behind the helicopter (and maybe directly over the chemical plant) is a nice looking cumulus cloud.

I've been reading this book on and off for the last few days, and have been noticing that for some reason, that cover irritates the heck out of me. Finally this evening I was able to figure it out. The reason I don't like the cover is because the damned helicopter is blocking my view of the cumulus cloud, so I can't properly evaluate it for lift potential!

The good news is that the rear cover has a copy of the cumulus cloud, unobstructed by the helicopter. The bad news is that the unobstructed view shows that the cloud looks kind of ratty.

I clearly need professional help ;-)

Frank (TA)

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On May 1, 9:10*pm, wrote:

> I clearly need professional help ;-)
>
> Frank (TA)

Buy another sailplane. That is what I do. Cheaper than therapy.

Steve Leonard

[John[_30_]]

On a sort of "related" note......have you ever noticed that at the movies
(especially Westerns) you are studying the sky and the clouds? Many a
scene are obviously shot over a period of several days as there is often
an "illogical" appearing sky...... (ie, small budding cumulus suddenly give
way to high cirrus clouds....etc.) Only a glider pilot would notice the
discontinuity. (Well, maybe a meteorologist).

J4

"Steve Leonard" > wrote in message
...
> On May 1, 9:10 pm, wrote:
>
>> I clearly need professional help ;-)
>>
>> Frank (TA)
>
> Buy another sailplane. That is what I do. Cheaper than therapy.
>
> Steve Leonard

[John Castle[_2_]]

Yes I have seen that. I like the time lapse photography that accompanies
some programs. Problem is you lose track of the program anyway but then
the clouds are more interesting.
(OK I also need help)


At 03:32 02 May 2012, John wrote:
>On a sort of "related" note......have you ever noticed that at the movies

>(especially Westerns) you are studying the sky and the clouds? Many a
>scene are obviously shot over a period of several days as there is often
>an "illogical" appearing sky...... (ie, small budding cumulus suddenly
give
>
>way to high cirrus clouds....etc.) Only a glider pilot would notice
the
>
>discontinuity. (Well, maybe a meteorologist).
>
>J4
>
>"Steve Leonard" wrote in message
...
>> On May 1, 9:10 pm, wrote:
>>
>>> I clearly need professional help ;-)
>>>
>>> Frank (TA)
>>
>> Buy another sailplane. That is what I do. Cheaper than therapy.
>>
>> Steve Leonard
>
>

[BobW]

Check out the following link...what's wrong with this picture?!?

http://www.daretomove.com/flight-level-460.html

I've been troubled ever since first seeing this painting in "Soaring" mag 'way
back when.' Even went so far as to ask a number of fellow soaring pilots
"What's wrong with this picture?" at a glider club having the (otherwise very
nice) painting hanging on the wall. No one ever knew.

Any help from RAS?

Please, I either need help...company...or a darker closet...

[Yannick Bgn]

Shadows ???

[Tony[_5_]]

On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 8:30:55 AM UTC-5, BobW wrote:
> Check out the following link...what's wrong with this picture?!?
>
> http://www.daretomove.com/flight-level-460.html
>
> I've been troubled ever since first seeing this painting in "Soaring" mag 'way
> back when.' Even went so far as to ask a number of fellow soaring pilots
> "What's wrong with this picture?" at a glider club having the (otherwise very
> nice) painting hanging on the wall. No one ever knew.
>
> Any help from RAS?
>
> Please, I either need help...company...or a darker closet...

Wrong phase of the moon?

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 11:32:39 PM UTC-4, John wrote:
> On a sort of "related" note......have you ever noticed that at the movies
> (especially Westerns) you are studying the sky and the clouds?

Shot in New Mexico, the clouds in the background of the TV show "Breaking Bad" are especially interesting. The show's tempted me to go on a soaring vacation in NM, though the irrational part of my mind believes that the state is full of dangerous Meth addicts especially out in the desert where I might 'land out'.

[Peter von Tresckow]

The shadows on the wing indicate the sun being on the left side of the
picture. The right side of the moon is illuminated.

Pete

"Tony" > wrote in message
news:20240538.1898.1335965924244.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbep19...
> On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 8:30:55 AM UTC-5, BobW wrote:
>> Check out the following link...what's wrong with this picture?!?
>>
>> http://www.daretomove.com/flight-level-460.html
>>
>> I've been troubled ever since first seeing this painting in "Soaring" mag
>> 'way
>> back when.' Even went so far as to ask a number of fellow soaring pilots
>> "What's wrong with this picture?" at a glider club having the (otherwise
>> very
>> nice) painting hanging on the wall. No one ever knew.
>>
>> Any help from RAS?
>>
>> Please, I either need help...company...or a darker closet...
>
> Wrong phase of the moon?

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On May 2, 8:30*am, BobW > wrote:
> Check out the following link...what's wrong with this picture?!?
>
> http://www.daretomove.com/flight-level-460.html
>
> I've been troubled ever since first seeing this painting in "Soaring" mag 'way
> back when.' Even went so far as to ask a number of fellow soaring pilots
> "What's wrong with this picture?" at a glider club having the (otherwise very
> nice) painting hanging on the wall. No one ever knew.
>
> Any help from RAS?
>
> Please, I either need help...company...or a darker closet...

Glider is not a 1-23H. Glider is heading down, yet the sun is shining
brightly from in front on the bottom of the wing and casting a shadow
from the dive brake.

[Berry[_2_]]

In article
<20240538.1898.1335965924244.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbep19>,
Tony > wrote:

> http://www.daretomove.com/flight-level-460.html

Probably referring to the divebrakes open AND the shadows indicating
light coming from beneath the glider. However, Bickle said he was
freezing at that point and couldn't hang around up there to enjoy the
view. As for the shadows, late in the day, the sun would be low enough
to cast those shadows.

Hmm, was that flight done very early in the morning? If so, then the
shadows are coming from the wrong direction.

[POPS]

Ha Ha Ha, Obvious... Any other old (hint) sextant navigator jockeys out there?





Check out the following link...what's wrong with this picture?!?

http://www.daretomove.com/flight-level-460.html

I've been troubled ever since first seeing this painting in "Soaring" mag 'way
back when.' Even went so far as to ask a number of fellow soaring pilots
"What's wrong with this picture?" at a glider club having the (otherwise very
nice) painting hanging on the wall. No one ever knew.

Any help from RAS?

Please, I either need help...company...or a darker closet...

[FreeFlight107]

On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:17:55 AM UTC-7, POPS wrote:
> Ha Ha Ha, Obvious... Any other old (hint) sextant navigator jockeys
> out there?


I used a sextant for sailboat navigation in the '70s but mostly noon sights, I'm going with the moon is in the south and illuminated from the wrong side in relation to the Sun. What time of day did Bickle do the flight? He must have done it early in the AM as he flys into a low sun, he would have told the artist this. then the artist illuminated the Moon on the wrong side.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lunar-Phase-Diagram.png
for Moon phases in relation to Sun direction.

OK Pops, your turn!

FF

[FreeFlight107]

OK, did some more reasearch, sratch the above.


According to the FAI site, Paul Bikle flew a 1-23E and according to the caption of the painting it was in the afternoon.

As he was going West with the spoilers out, the Moon is all wrong, and shouldn't even be in the picture.

But Bickle may have taken a picture of the Moon while headed West and shown it to the artist who put it in forgetting Bickle was looking South when he shot it.

Do I get a Cigar?

FF

[Tony[_5_]]

On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 1:17:55 PM UTC-5, POPS wrote:
> Ha Ha Ha, Obvious... Any other old (hint) sextant navigator jockeys
> out there?

Is there any other kind of sextant navigator?

[FreeFlight107]

On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 1:38:20 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 1:17:55 PM UTC-5, POPS wrote:
> > Ha Ha Ha, Obvious... Any other old (hint) sextant navigator jockeys
> > out there?
>
> Is there any other kind of sextant navigator?

Nope, Lot's of old ones on eBay, but not the books to reduce the observations.

[BobW]

On 5/2/2012 7:57 AM, Peter von Tresckow wrote:
> The shadows on the wing indicate the sun being on the left side of the
> picture. The right side of the moon is illuminated.
>
> Pete
>
> > wrote in message
> news:20240538.1898.1335965924244.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbep19...
>> On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 8:30:55 AM UTC-5, BobW wrote:
>>> Check out the following link...what's wrong with this picture?!?
>>>
>>> http://www.daretomove.com/flight-level-460.html
>>>
>>> I've been troubled ever since first seeing this painting in "Soaring" mag
>>> 'way
>>> back when.' Even went so far as to ask a number of fellow soaring pilots
>>> "What's wrong with this picture?" at a glider club having the (otherwise
>>> very
>>> nice) painting hanging on the wall. No one ever knew.
>>>
>>> Any help from RAS?
>>>
>>> Please, I either need help...company...or a darker closet...
>>
>> Wrong phase of the moon?
>
>

Oh joy! There IS hope for at least one generation following mine!!!

Thanks to Pete's answer I now know I'm not the only one troubled by the fact
two suns are required for the illumination in the painting.

As for the other items commented upon...mere details - nay, nits! - when
considering the grander cosmological view...

Thanks, Pete. After 20+ years I'm all better now!

Bob W.

[POPS]

That's a roger 10-4

Good to know that Mr BobW has finally been cured of that splinter in his mind from therapy online..

On Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:17:55 AM UTC-7, POPS wrote:
Ha Ha Ha, Obvious... Any other old (hint) sextant navigator jockeys
out there?


I used a sextant for sailboat navigation in the '70s but mostly noon sights, I'm going with the moon is in the south and illuminated from the wrong side in relation to the Sun. What time of day did Bickle do the flight? He must have done it early in the AM as he flys into a low sun, he would have told the artist this. then the artist illuminated the Moon on the wrong side.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lunar-Phase-Diagram.png
for Moon phases in relation to Sun direction.

OK Pops, your turn!

FF

[Wayne Paul]

POPS, there are a few of us still hanging around. I did a bit of celestial
navigation back in the day when I was a Bombardier/Navigator flying A-3B
Skywarriors. In fact I spent one tour as a celestial navigation instructor.

"POPS" wrote in message ...


Ha Ha Ha, Obvious... Any other old (hint) sextant navigator jockeys
out there?





BobW;814159 Wrote:
> Check out the following link...what's wrong with this picture?!?
>
> http://www.daretomove.com/flight-level-460.html
>
> I've been troubled ever since first seeing this painting in "Soaring"
> mag 'way
> back when.' Even went so far as to ask a number of fellow soaring pilots
>
> "What's wrong with this picture?" at a glider club having the (otherwise
> very
> nice) painting hanging on the wall. No one ever knew.
>
> Any help from RAS?
>
> Please, I either need help...company...or a darker closet...




--
POPS

[kirk.stant]

On Thursday, May 3, 2012 8:40:14 AM UTC-5, Wayne wrote:
> POPS, there are a few of us still hanging around. I did a bit of celestial
> navigation back in the day when I was a Bombardier/Navigator flying A-3B
> Skywarriors. In fact I spent one tour as a celestial navigation instructor.

Celestial? Pah - too easy. Now Pressure - That's navigating!

(For you young pups - Pressure is navigation via altimeter...look it up.)

Kirk
T-29s at USAFA and T-43s at Mather...

[Derek Mackie]

Grid nav through the arctic with cel to reset the Along and Across
Track Computer (...all gears, cogs and wheels - complete with a
physical Kalman filter)... Who needs GPS? Give me an 80 lb bag of
books and 600 lb of machinery...

Derek
CC-130
CP-140

[Wayne Paul]

Yes Kirk, Pressure Pattern navigation was the way to go on those
trans-Pacific high altitude flights. Then, of course, you could save a lot
of fuel when leaving the West Coast at FL 280 and cruise climbing to FL 490
prior to the long idle decent into NAS Barbers Point, HI.

Wayne
A-3B Skywarrior, A-6A Intruder
http://www.soaridaho.com/Naval_Pictures/A3B_CVA-64_12-Aug-64.jpg
http://www.soaridaho.com/Family_Pictures/Wayne/Navy_Photos/VA-196_Officers_1969.jpg




"kirk.stant" wrote in message
news:6443731.797.1336065589873.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbfr5...

On Thursday, May 3, 2012 8:40:14 AM UTC-5, Wayne wrote:
> POPS, there are a few of us still hanging around. I did a bit of
> celestial
> navigation back in the day when I was a Bombardier/Navigator flying A-3B
> Skywarriors. In fact I spent one tour as a celestial navigation
> instructor.

Celestial? Pah - too easy. Now Pressure - That's navigating!

(For you young pups - Pressure is navigation via altimeter...look it up.)

Kirk
T-29s at USAFA and T-43s at Mather...

[POPS]

Er um,...

Pressure Pattern navigation? huh? I probably should not have used the word 'sextant jockeys' ... Jockeys... that must mean av8ters.. I'm a globetrotter water-world style. Funny.

Also, back to that painting.
Not only is the moon incorrectly illuminated, but it's celestial positioning sets this picture in the southern hemisphere.



Yes Kirk, Pressure Pattern navigation was the way to go on those
trans-Pacific high altitude flights. Then, of course, you could save a lot
of fuel when leaving the West Coast at FL 280 and cruise climbing to FL 490
prior to the long idle decent into NAS Barbers Point, HI.

Wayne
A-3B Skywarrior, A-6A Intruder
http://www.soaridaho.com/Naval_Pictures/A3B_CVA-64_12-Aug-64.jpg
http://www.soaridaho.com/Family_Pictures/Wayne/Navy_Photos/VA-196_Officers_1969.jpg




"kirk.stant" wrote in message
news:6443731.797.1336065589873.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbfr5...

On Thursday, May 3, 2012 8:40:14 AM UTC-5, Wayne wrote:
POPS, there are a few of us still hanging around. I did a bit of
celestial
navigation back in the day when I was a Bombardier/Navigator flying A-3B
Skywarriors. In fact I spent one tour as a celestial navigation
instructor.

Celestial? Pah - too easy. Now Pressure - That's navigating!

(For you young pups - Pressure is navigation via altimeter...look it up.)

Kirk
T-29s at USAFA and T-43s at Mather...

[Derek Mackie]

On May 3, 4:45*pm, POPS > wrote:
> Er um,...
>
> Pressure Pattern navigation? huh? * I probably should not have used the
> word 'sextant jockeys' ... * *Jockeys... that must mean av8ters.. *I'm a
> globetrotter water-world style. *Funny.
>
> Also, back to that painting.
> Not only is the moon incorrectly illuminated, but it's celestial
> positioning sets this picture in the southern hemisphere.
>
> Wayne Paul;814253 Wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Yes Kirk, Pressure Pattern navigation was the way to go on those
> > trans-Pacific high altitude flights. *Then, of course, you could save a
> > lot
> > of fuel when leaving the West Coast at FL 280 and cruise climbing to FL
> > 490
> > prior to the long idle decent into NAS Barbers Point, HI.
>
> > Wayne
> > A-3B Skywarrior, A-6A Intruder
> >http://www.soaridaho.com/Naval_Pictures/A3B_CVA-64_12-Aug-64.jpg
> >http://tinyurl.com/cs64o3p
>
> > "kirk.stant" *wrote in message
> >news:6443731.797.1336065589873.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbfr5...
>
> > On Thursday, May 3, 2012 8:40:14 AM UTC-5, Wayne wrote:-
> > POPS, there are a few of us still hanging around. *I did a bit of
> > celestial
> > navigation back in the day when I was a Bombardier/Navigator flying
> > A-3B
> > Skywarriors. *In fact I spent one tour as a celestial navigation
> > instructor.-
>
> > Celestial? Pah - too easy. *Now Pressure - That's navigating!
>
> > (For you young pups - Pressure is navigation via altimeter...look it
> > up.)
>
> > Kirk
> > T-29s at USAFA and T-43s at Mather...
>
> --
> POPS

Oh POPS, you're so cute! Bobbing in the oggen, maybe bashing through
the waves at 15kts, waiting for the soup to clear long enough to snap
a sun shot...

Give me a periscopic sextant above the clag any day...

:-)

Derek

[Dan Marotta]

No need to worry about landing out in New Mexico - there's just too much
lift!

Errrr, uhhh... That wasn't a glider I was retrieving as another landed
behind us last Sunday. :-)

> wrote in message
news:30139811.4050.1335966396948.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbq19...
On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 11:32:39 PM UTC-4, John wrote:
> On a sort of "related" note......have you ever noticed that at the movies
> (especially Westerns) you are studying the sky and the clouds?

Shot in New Mexico, the clouds in the background of the TV show "Breaking
Bad" are especially interesting. The show's tempted me to go on a soaring
vacation in NM, though the irrational part of my mind believes that the
state is full of dangerous Meth addicts especially out in the desert where I
might 'land out'.