NYC/Hudson VFR Corridor...finally!

[Andrew Gideon]

I've been a pilot for a number of years, now. The first flight in a GA
airplane I took as a passenger - the trip that flipped me over into
learning to fly - included a trip down the Hudson corridor. I've been
wanting to do this for a while myself.

I was in the air with my wife, with the trip planned. But we decided to do
something else given the poor visibility. "Next week", we agreed. That
was September 10, 2001.

Then there was IFR training, trips to take, club checkouts to fly...

Today, I found myself at Linden airport with a need to fly to Caldwell. I'd
just come down under the class B shelf, I'd already flown the GSP
transition...hey, why not the corridor?

So off I went.

I did experience a bit of concern, realizing that I'd not checked with FSS
for the latest Bush/Cheney/&Friends report. But a quick chat on 122.2
solved that (and got the "all clear" with my tail number on tape, Just In
Case {8^).

And north I went.

It was fun, but crowded. And those helicopters are either not watching, or
very daring. One climbed past my 2 o'clock quite close to me. No
announcement, either. A little unnerving.

The bridges seemed awfully high!

Next time, I might try it higher (ie. in the class B). Who would I speak
to? LGA's tower at the north end, or EWR's tower down south? Which
frequency? 118.3 for EWR (I think)?

Normally, I'd start with approach and let them transition me. But, starting
from Linden, I was practically on top of EWR. So I'm not sure.

BTW, when I got back to CDW, my CFII and a friend working on his rating were
landing. So I popped in at the FBO to say "hi". I explained what I'd just
done...and my CFII was somewhat disapproving. He doesn't like the
corridor, apparently, with all the crowded (and uncontrolled!) traffic.

The perfect CF-*double*-I! <laugh>

- Andrew

[Peter Gottlieb]

Gosh, if he doesn't like the corridor, I can just imagine what he must think
about Oshkosh.


"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
gonline.com...
>
> BTW, when I got back to CDW, my CFII and a friend working on his rating
were
> landing. So I popped in at the FBO to say "hi". I explained what I'd
just
> done...and my CFII was somewhat disapproving. He doesn't like the
> corridor, apparently, with all the crowded (and uncontrolled!) traffic.
>
> The perfect CF-*double*-I! <laugh>
>
> - Andrew
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Andrew Gideon wrote:
>
> Next time, I might try it higher (ie. in the class B). Who would I speak
> to? LGA's tower at the north end, or EWR's tower down south? Which
> frequency? 118.3 for EWR (I think)?
>
> Normally, I'd start with approach and let them transition me. But, starting
> from Linden, I was practically on top of EWR. So I'm not sure.

From the north, talk to LGA approach. From Linden, call up EWR. If you're over
the Raritan bay, call JFK. If you call the wrong one, they will direct you to
call the airport with jurisdiction over your area. When this happens, they will
sometimes give you a frequency to call. My limited experience here leads me to
advise you to ignore that. If EWR tells you to call JFK approach on xxx.x, you
will be wasting your time to do it. Look up the JFK approach frequency on the
sectional chart and call that.

George Patterson
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something that can be learned
no other way.

[mike regish]

What's the deal with the corridor now? Is it pretty much back to normal?

No ADIZ or anything there, right? I don't see any TFR's listed, but don't
always trust the internet.

mike regish

"Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
t...
> Gosh, if he doesn't like the corridor, I can just imagine what he must
think
> about Oshkosh.
>
>
> "Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
> gonline.com...
> >
> > BTW, when I got back to CDW, my CFII and a friend working on his rating
> were
> > landing. So I popped in at the FBO to say "hi". I explained what I'd
> just
> > done...and my CFII was somewhat disapproving. He doesn't like the
> > corridor, apparently, with all the crowded (and uncontrolled!) traffic.
> >
> > The perfect CF-*double*-I! <laugh>
> >
> > - Andrew
> >
>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

mike regish wrote:
>
> What's the deal with the corridor now? Is it pretty much back to normal?

Yep.

> No ADIZ or anything there, right? I don't see any TFR's listed, but don't
> always trust the internet.

You have to keep tabs on it. The main problem recently was games at Yankee
Stadium (not a problem since the series is over). The briefers would warn you
that a game was scheduled, but they wouldn't know the exact time it started,
and nobody knows when one will end.

George Patterson
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something that can be learned
no other way.

[Teacherjh]

>> Next time, I might try it higher (ie. in the class B).

Yes, try it, but once you do, you'll be back downstairs where the view is
prettier. :) To get in talk to the approach controllers - the frequencies are
on the TCA (oops, TAC) chart, which is a must-have.

>>
Normally, I'd start with approach and let them transition me. But, starting
from Linden, I was practically on top of EWR...
<<

Go East. That's where the Hudson starts anyway. Call approach. You might
even get them on the ground (never tried it)

>>
my CFII was somewhat disapproving. He doesn't like the corridor,
<<

To each his own. I love the corridor. Saw a C5A flying down the Hudson at 500
feet. Those must have been happy pilots!

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Andrew Gideon]

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

> From the north, talk to LGA approach.

LGA approach? Is that different from the tower or NY approach? Is this on
119.95?

> From Linden, call up EWR.

On 127.85 or 118.3. That's where I became confused. Is 127.85 what you're
calling "EWR approach"?

> If you're
> over the Raritan bay, call JFK.

Yes? EWR seems the closer choice there.

> If you call the wrong one, they will
> direct you to call the airport with jurisdiction over your area. When this
> happens, they will sometimes give you a frequency to call. My limited
> experience here leads me to advise you to ignore that. If EWR tells you to
> call JFK approach on xxx.x, you will be wasting your time to do it. Look
> up the JFK approach frequency on the sectional chart and call that.

Is "JFK approach" 125.25?

So what is this "airport approach" thing? Where does it fit in the Universe
(as I understand it) which includes TRACON and Tower?

Thanks...

Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

Teacherjh wrote:

>>> Next time, I might try it higher (ie. in the class B).
>
> Yes, try it, but once you do, you'll be back downstairs where the view is
> prettier. :)

A couple of hundred feet makes that much of a difference? One of those
helicopters past awfully close, and came right out of a blind spot. Given
that he climbed past me, and turned east, he must have been speaking to
ATC, as opposed to the corridor's CTAF.

- Andrew

[Peter Gottlieb]

"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
online.com...
> A couple of hundred feet makes that much of a difference? One of those
> helicopters past awfully close, and came right out of a blind spot. Given
> that he climbed past me, and turned east, he must have been speaking to
> ATC, as opposed to the corridor's CTAF.


Regardless of who he is speaking to or not, his principle responsibility is
still to "See and Avoid." Yours, too, so keep your head on a swivel and do
not get complacent.

[Andrew Gideon]

Peter Gottlieb wrote:


> Regardless of who he is speaking to or not, his principle responsibility
> is
> still to "See and Avoid." Yours, too, so keep your head on a swivel and
> do not get complacent.

Right. But I cannot see under my aircraft's cowling. Having an extra set
of (RADAR) eyes watching cannot hurt.

- Andrew

[Ron Natalie]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message ...

> You have to keep tabs on it. The main problem recently was games at Yankee
> Stadium (not a problem since the series is over). The briefers would warn you
> that a game was scheduled, but they wouldn't know the exact time it started,
> and nobody knows when one will end.

Dial up 880 on the ADF?

[Teacherjh]

>> A couple of hundred feet makes that much of a difference?

You won't get a couple of hundred feet. You'll get what the controllers give
you, which will llikely be a thousand feet or more higher. Yes, it makes a
difference. (and that low, a few hundred feet changes the view too).

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[John Roncallo]

Andrew Gideon wrote:


> BTW, when I got back to CDW, my CFII and a friend working on his rating were
> landing. So I popped in at the FBO to say "hi". I explained what I'd just
> done...and my CFII was somewhat disapproving. He doesn't like the
> corridor, apparently, with all the crowded (and uncontrolled!) traffic.
>
> The perfect CF-*double*-I! <laugh>
>
> - Andrew
>

I guess he would be really upset If you flew into JFK. Try the corridor
at night. I never saw a helicopter at night and there is significantly
less traffic. It also is very very very cool. Also try JFK at night. I
dont know about now but I went there 5 years ago and the landing fee
after 10:00 PM was only $25.00. It was the most worth while landing fee
I ever paid.

[John Roncallo]

Andrew Gideon wrote:

>
>
> Is "JFK approach" 125.25?
>
> So what is this "airport approach" thing? Where does it fit in the Universe
> (as I understand it) which includes TRACON and Tower?
>
> Thanks...
>
> Andrew
>

Approach is who you have to speak to before you enter the Class B. Look
at the New York VFR TAC. You will see a few white boxes with the proper
frequencies to use for the area you are approaching from. You must call
these approach control frequencies and be given a specific clearance
into the Class B before entering. They can refuese to let you in, and
will probably not let you in if your radio skills do not appear sharp.

John Roncallo

[G.R. Patterson III]

Andrew Gideon wrote:
>
> G.R. Patterson III wrote:
>
> > From the north, talk to LGA approach.
>
> LGA approach? Is that different from the tower or NY approach? Is this on
> 119.95?

If you're outside the class-B to the north, the proper term is NY approach, but
you'll be talking to LGA. Frequencies are 126.4, 319.8, and 120.55. If you're
under the outer ring of the class-B, you want LGA tower on 119.95. If you're
within 6 nm of LGA, better not talk to them.

> > From Linden, call up EWR.
>
> On 127.85 or 118.3. That's where I became confused. Is 127.85 what you're
> calling "EWR approach"?

127.85. You'll be talking to the tower.

> > If you're
> > over the Raritan bay, call JFK.
>
> Yes? EWR seems the closer choice there.

I agree, but the last time I called EWR, they told me to call JFK. JFK gave me
vectors for half a minute or so and turned me over to EWR near the narrows. JFK
approach is 125.7 outside the outer ring and 125.25 under it.

> So what is this "airport approach" thing? Where does it fit in the Universe
> (as I understand it) which includes TRACON and Tower?

As far as I can tell in this environment, it's a word that tells the guy on the
ground that this is your initial contact and you're getting closer to him.

George Patterson
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something that can be learned
no other way.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Andrew Gideon wrote:
>
> Right. But I cannot see under my aircraft's cowling. Having an extra set
> of (RADAR) eyes watching cannot hurt.

The controllers don't pay any attention to anything squawking VFR in the
corridor. If you want radar attention, you'll have to get clearance into the
class-B. As far as the choppers are concerned, they usually stay below 500',
but they tend to act like they own the air down there. Most of them are pros
who are quite good at see-and-avoid. Some of them are quite taciturn.

George Patterson
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something that can
be learned no other way.

[Dave]

(Teacherjh) wrote in message >...
> >> A couple of hundred feet makes that much of a difference?
>
> You won't get a couple of hundred feet. You'll get what the controllers give
> you, which will llikely be a thousand feet or more higher. Yes, it makes a
> difference. (and that low, a few hundred feet changes the view too).
>
> Jose

I'm a much bigger proponent of getting clearance into class B and
flying at about 1500. Then I have 'eyes' helping me. That, plus my
Garmin 330 transponder flashing traffic on my 430..... :)

My normal routing is from Jersey, up over the Verizano, towards the
"lady", up the Hudson (w/city on right), cross Central Park around the
midpoint, turn right and go down the East river. This routing is
usually granted when LGA is not using the runway that sends traffic
over the park. And, normally it works best to not ask for the park
crossing until you are handed off to LGA tower, since it is they who
will give or deny you. Just tell the first controllers your immediate
intentions, as they simply don't have time to pass your entire request
onto the next sector.

[Andrew Gideon]

John Roncallo wrote:


> Approach is who you have to speak to before you enter the Class B.

Not necessarily. When I fly the GSP transition southbound, for example, I
call Newark's tower directly on 118.3.

But my confusion is in the use of the phrase "Newark Approach" or "JFK
Approach". I don't know what that means. I understand "Newark Tower" and
"New York Approach". But "Newark Approach" is a phrase I don't recall.

Is it perhaps an "approach" in the tower, distinct from both "tower" and
"New York Approach"?

Or is this just a linguistic holdover, such as when my CFII called
"Catskills Approach" on 132.75?

- Andrew

[Guy Elden Jr.]

> It was fun, but crowded. And those helicopters are either not watching,
or
> very daring. One climbed past my 2 o'clock quite close to me. No
> announcement, either. A little unnerving.

The last time I did the corridor, it was at night, calm as calm can be...
except for all the planes flying overhead enroute to LGA runway 13... Got
some nice bumps out of them. :)

> The bridges seemed awfully high!

Oh yeah! I always swing out to the middle when crossing the GWB and
Verrazano, just to be sure. I estimate the GWB towers to be around 700 - 800
feet tall, and I usually fly right at 900 feet, so that doesn't leave much
clearance at all if you go directly over them.

> Next time, I might try it higher (ie. in the class B). Who would I speak
> to? LGA's tower at the north end, or EWR's tower down south? Which
> frequency? 118.3 for EWR (I think)?

Not sure about climbing higher, but I've transitioned EWR airspace a couple
of times... my typical route is CDW to the Alpine Tower (just south of the
Tappan Zee), then turn south over the Hudson, descend to 900 feet, do the
run to the Verrazano, then swing back north, contact EWR, transition their
airspace enroute to CDW. Takes about 30 minutes or so. Typically EWR will
have you fly directly over the numbers of either 4L/R or 22L/R, so make sure
you do exactly that. The last time I did that transition I got traffic
called for a 767 landing on 22, and a Learjet landing on 15 (I think that's
the number... the one that intersects with the two parallel runways).
Basically just had to swing a bit to the north to avoid the Lear... the 767
was no factor to my lowly 172. :)

> BTW, when I got back to CDW, my CFII and a friend working on his rating
were
> landing. So I popped in at the FBO to say "hi". I explained what I'd
just
> done...and my CFII was somewhat disapproving. He doesn't like the
> corridor, apparently, with all the crowded (and uncontrolled!) traffic.

Best place to practice your see and avoid skills... you can be sure just
about every pilot there is doing exactly that.

As I was driving home from the city tonight with my wife and a friend, I was
joking about the idea of going up around midnight to try and get cleared to
circle over Rockefeller center... idea being that traffic wouldn't be much
of a factor, so approach would probably grant the request. I figured it
might be a cool way to get a photo of the tree there, but then my friend
pointed out that it'd be at night, and the chances of getting a good photo
from a safe altitude (probably 3000 feet at least) at night would be slim to
none. Still, it might be something to try... as long as I'm within gliding
distance of LGA, I figure it'd be safe.

--
jr

[Andrew Gideon]

Andrew Gideon wrote:

>> Approach is who you have to speak to before you enter the Class B.
>
> Not necessarily. When I fly the GSP transition southbound, for example, I
> call Newark's tower directly on 118.3.

<Laugh> I did that today, and they had me change to "Newark Tower" on
127.85. So much for predictability, eh?

BTW, while I was on that frequency, I heard someone cleared for a flight
over the Hudson northbound at 1400.

- Andrew