Twins in clubs....

[Captain Wubba]

Hello. I'm a member of a flying club that is in the process of
purchasing a Cessna 337 (Actually a new member is bringing it in with
his membership). The club manager wants to bring in a twin because he
thinks he can easily get 7 or 8 new members specifically for the twin.
But right now, of the dozen or so club members, only the current owner
and myself are multi rated. I'm fairly low time (Commercial Single &
Multi, Instrument, 500 hours total, 20 multi, 40 complex) and the
insurance numbers I got were somewhat shocking. One place I called
wouldn't underwrite twins at all anymore, and one other quoted me
$7400 a year for $80k hull and $500k liability.

Is anyone else here a member of a club with a twin? How do you manage
the insurance costs? Have you found any place that is more reasonable
for your insurance needs?

Needless to say, if each club member who can fly the twin has to pay
an extra $2000 a year just in insurance to fly it (probably flown an
average of 40 hours a year by each twin-qualified member, on average),
it will severely degrade interest in it.

Any ideas, or is this just a non-starter? Of the other potential club
members who would join immediately to use the twin, one has 4000 hours
multi time, one has 2500 total time (but only 15 multi) and another
has 600 hours total, and 15 multi. I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,

Cap

[Teacherjh]

No experience, but try it as a separate club or partnership. Those interested
pony up the cash (and have equity) to buy the plane, shares can be sold when
leaving the club, and everything else is shared among the "twin" members based
on tach time and calendar time as appropriate. It's like owning a share.

You'd then be a member of two different clubs.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, (Captain Wubba) said:
>insurance numbers I got were somewhat shocking. One place I called
>wouldn't underwrite twins at all anymore, and one other quoted me
>$7400 a year for $80k hull and $500k liability.

Our club was looking at getting an Aztruck or Seneca, and even though the
club is nearly 50 years old and hasn't had an insurance claim except for
wind storm damage in 30 years, every insurance company we contacted said
no way, not for any price. 3 members of the club formed their own
partnership to buy a Seneca instead - one of them is a CFII-MEI, and so
he's trying to get insurance that will let him instruct in it, but not
having much luck.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Remember, "close" counts in horse-shoes, hand-grenades and nuclear warfare;
but in spamming, it's considered unnecessary precision.
-- Alun Jones

[Robert M. Gary]

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message >...
> In a previous article, (Captain Wubba) said:
> >insurance numbers I got were somewhat shocking. One place I called
> >wouldn't underwrite twins at all anymore, and one other quoted me
> >$7400 a year for $80k hull and $500k liability.
>
> Our club was looking at getting an Aztruck or Seneca, and even though the
> club is nearly 50 years old and hasn't had an insurance claim except for
> wind storm damage in 30 years, every insurance company we contacted said
> no way, not for any price. 3 members of the club formed their own
> partnership to buy a Seneca instead - one of them is a CFII-MEI, and so
> he's trying to get insurance that will let him instruct in it, but not
> having much luck.

My insurance company says my rates will go up 5 times the current
amount if I teach in my plane. That's without solo, dual only. I can
only give instruction to those named on the policy (i.e. my partner).
Its too bad too since there aren't many high end trainers out there.

[Gilles KERMARC]

Captain Wubba wrote:
> Hello. I'm a member of a flying club that is in the process of
> purchasing a Cessna 337 (Actually a new member is bringing it in with
> his membership). The club manager wants to bring in a twin because he
> thinks he can easily get 7 or 8 new members specifically for the twin.

I had the feeling that the push-pull configuration doesn't make a "twin"
in that it doesn't require a twin rating ? Or is it only in some
European countries ?


I'm fairly low time (Commercial Single &
> Multi, Instrument, 500 hours total, 20 multi, 40 complex)

I wish I were that "low time".

[BTIZ]

in the US it's a TWIN... but if you take your initial ME checkride in it..
you will be limited to "center line thrust" on your certificate.

BT

"Gilles KERMARC" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Captain Wubba wrote:
> > Hello. I'm a member of a flying club that is in the process of
> > purchasing a Cessna 337 (Actually a new member is bringing it in with
> > his membership). The club manager wants to bring in a twin because he
> > thinks he can easily get 7 or 8 new members specifically for the twin.
>
> I had the feeling that the push-pull configuration doesn't make a "twin"
> in that it doesn't require a twin rating ? Or is it only in some
> European countries ?
>
>
> I'm fairly low time (Commercial Single &
> > Multi, Instrument, 500 hours total, 20 multi, 40 complex)
>
> I wish I were that "low time".
>

[Chris Nielsen]

Gilles KERMARC wrote:

>
>
> Captain Wubba wrote:
>> Hello. I'm a member of a flying club that is in the process of
>> purchasing a Cessna 337 (Actually a new member is bringing it in with
>> his membership). The club manager wants to bring in a twin because he
>> thinks he can easily get 7 or 8 new members specifically for the twin.
>
> I had the feeling that the push-pull configuration doesn't make a "twin"
> in that it doesn't require a twin rating ? Or is it only in some
> European countries ?
>


Just to stick my oar in here - here in New Zealand it also doesn't count as
a twin. Even our logbooks state you can't log time as multi if it's
centre-line thrust.

cya

Chris Nielsen

[Michael]

(Robert M. Gary) wrote
> My insurance company says my rates will go up 5 times the current
> amount if I teach in my plane. That's without solo, dual only. I can
> only give instruction to those named on the policy (i.e. my partner).
> Its too bad too since there aren't many high end trainers out there.

5 times seems excessive. Which twin?

When I asked that question about my PA-30, I was told that with a
qualified instructor and dual only, the rate would go from the $2500 I
pay for personal use to $6800.

Of course qualified instructor means 1500TT, 500ME, 25 M/M.

Michael

[Rick Durden]

Chris,

> Just to stick my oar in here - here in New Zealand it also doesn't count as
> a twin. Even our logbooks state you can't log time as multi if it's
> centre-line thrust.

Interesting. In the early '60s when Cessna certified the 336, it
asked the FAA to allow single-engine pilots to fly it; FAA said no,
have to have a multi-engine rating. Also, those military pilots who
flew the F-4 Phantom and then obtained U.S. civilian ratings based on
military experience were given centerline thrust limitations on their
ratings, apparently due to the close proximity of the engines and the
relatively mild yaw on loss of one.

All the best,
Rick