Rant about sillying CFI rating and BFR

[Robert M. Gary]

Its that time again for me to complain. My CFI is coming up so I'm
going to add a rating to it (CFII). Of course, in the wise eyes of the
FAA this does not count as a BFR because it is not a "pilot
priviledge" but rather an instructor priv. I've gone around and around
with the Sacramento FSDO but they aren't interested in changing their
understanding. I guess I'll upgrade my sea rating to commercial
(should only take an hour of dual according to the sea school) as a
BFR. It seems strange that you can go through a full checkride as an
instructor but still have to do a BFR.
-Robert, CFI

[Jim]

The FSDO Inspector I flew with offered to make my CFI checkride "qualify" as
a BFR. She said it would just make sure she included all the BFR
requirements. I declined her the pleasure of putting me through any extra.
--
Jim Burns III

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"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
> Its that time again for me to complain. My CFI is coming up so I'm
> going to add a rating to it (CFII). Of course, in the wise eyes of the
> FAA this does not count as a BFR because it is not a "pilot
> priviledge" but rather an instructor priv. I've gone around and around
> with the Sacramento FSDO but they aren't interested in changing their
> understanding. I guess I'll upgrade my sea rating to commercial
> (should only take an hour of dual according to the sea school) as a
> BFR. It seems strange that you can go through a full checkride as an
> instructor but still have to do a BFR.
> -Robert, CFI

[Robert M. Gary]

I did ask the Sacramento guys about this. They said you couldn't do
that (in Sacramento, feel free to do it anywhere else) because a BFR
requires an hour of "instruction" and FSDO PIs and DEs are not allowed
to give any "instruction" on checkrides. These guys make a living on
this crazy system! :)

-Robert

"Jim" > wrote in message >...
> The FSDO Inspector I flew with offered to make my CFI checkride "qualify" as
> a BFR. She said it would just make sure she included all the BFR
> requirements. I declined her the pleasure of putting me through any extra.
> --

[Greg Esres]

<<BFR requires an hour of "instruction" and FSDO >>

That's not required if you got a flight instructor renewal, which you
would have.

The FSDO's interp matches the reg as written, so I don't blame them.

[Jim]

You're right about the instruction required, and that part of it raised a
question in my mind at the time. I didn't pursue it any further. I'll tell
you something even funnier... I actually had a CFI argue with me telling me
that he thought he should be able to give HIMSELF a BFR!
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
m...
> I did ask the Sacramento guys about this. They said you couldn't do
> that (in Sacramento, feel free to do it anywhere else) because a BFR
> requires an hour of "instruction" and FSDO PIs and DEs are not allowed
> to give any "instruction" on checkrides. These guys make a living on
> this crazy system! :)
>
> -Robert
>
> "Jim" > wrote in message
>...
> > The FSDO Inspector I flew with offered to make my CFI checkride
"qualify" as
> > a BFR. She said it would just make sure she included all the BFR
> > requirements. I declined her the pleasure of putting me through any
extra.
> > --

[Blanche]

I thought any new rating counted in place of a formal BFR.

Oh well, what do I know...

[Jim]

It has to be a "pilot" rating, can't be a "instructor" rating.
--
Jim Burns III

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"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> I thought any new rating counted in place of a formal BFR.
>
> Oh well, what do I know...
>

[C J Campbell]

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
| It has to be a "pilot" rating, can't be a "instructor" rating.
| --

The trouble is that some people in the FAA try to have it both ways. The
*flight* instructor is a pilot certificate for all practical purposes --
except when some idiot decides that it is an issue for a BFR.

[C J Campbell]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
| Its that time again for me to complain. My CFI is coming up so I'm
| going to add a rating to it (CFII). Of course, in the wise eyes of the
| FAA this does not count as a BFR because it is not a "pilot
| priviledge" but rather an instructor priv.

Right up until the FAA decides to take some certificate action, demands to
see your pilot certificates, and includes your instructor certificate as one
of your pilot certificates. It is especially weird when you consider that
getting a hot air balloon certificate counts as a BFR even if your only
previous rating was multi-engine seaplanes and you have not flown in twenty
years.

However, there is nothing wrong with having an instructor sign off your BFR
when you are first obtaining or renewing an instructor certificate. Then you
have an entry in your logbook that specifically says the BFR was completed.

[C J Campbell]

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
| You're right about the instruction required, and that part of it raised a
| question in my mind at the time. I didn't pursue it any further. I'll
tell
| you something even funnier... I actually had a CFI argue with me telling
me
| that he thought he should be able to give HIMSELF a BFR!
| --

There once was a loophole in the regulations where this was legal. That
loophole has been closed with specific language preventing.

[Michael]

"Jim" > wrote
> You're right about the instruction required, and that part of it raised a
> question in my mind at the time. I didn't pursue it any further. I'll tell
> you something even funnier... I actually had a CFI argue with me telling me
> that he thought he should be able to give HIMSELF a BFR!

And there was a time when he was right. The prohibition against
self-endorsements is a relatively recent thing.

Michael

[Jim]

Wow, I didn't know that. But neither did the fellow argueing with me.
--
Jim Burns III

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"Michael" > wrote in message
om...
> "Jim" > wrote
> > You're right about the instruction required, and that part of it raised
a
> > question in my mind at the time. I didn't pursue it any further. I'll
tell
> > you something even funnier... I actually had a CFI argue with me telling
me
> > that he thought he should be able to give HIMSELF a BFR!
>
> And there was a time when he was right. The prohibition against
> self-endorsements is a relatively recent thing.
>
> Michael

[Hankal]

>I thought any new rating counted in place of a formal BFR.

I use the Wings program. I attend many seminars get a form with sign off, then
fly with a CFI for 3 hours have him-her sign my log book and endorse it. Have
them sign the application/ form and send it to the FSDO, they will issue the
Pilot Proficient Award. This is my BFR.
Hank N1441P

[Robert M. Gary]

Greg Esres > wrote in message >...
> <<BFR requires an hour of "instruction" and FSDO >>
>
> That's not required if you got a flight instructor renewal, which you
> would have.

The CFI renewal only gets rid of the ground part of the BFR, you still
have to receive one hour of flight instruction.

[Greg Esres]

<<The CFI renewal only gets rid of the ground part of the BFR, you
still have to receive one hour of flight instruction.>>

Oh, that's what I read your post to mean. But I see now you didn't
say that.

Anyway, I never thought of that objection, but I think technically,
they're right. I have to admire them for being real careful readers.
;-)

[Mark Kolber]

On 26 Nov 2003 09:55:22 -0700, Blanche >
wrote:

>I thought any new rating counted in place of a formal BFR.

It does. But instructor certificate and ratings, unlike pilot
certificates and ratings, don't.

Hey! Wait a minute! What rating did you just get?

Mark Kolber
APA/Denver, Colorado
www.midlifeflight.com
======================
email? Remove ".no.spam"

[Hankal]

>Hey! Wait a minute! What rating did you just get?

Got My IFR ticket about a year ago.

[Blanche]

Mark Kolber > wrote:
>On 26 Nov 2003 09:55:22 -0700, Blanche >
>wrote:
>
>>I thought any new rating counted in place of a formal BFR.
>
>It does. But instructor certificate and ratings, unlike pilot
>certificates and ratings, don't.
>
>Hey! Wait a minute! What rating did you just get?
>
>Mark Kolber
>APA/Denver, Colorado
>www.midlifeflight.com

None. Tradeoff between repairing/replacing the instruments and
the IFR rating.

Guess which won?