ICom A-5 Question - Battery Level Indicator

[Harry Gordon]

Happy belated Thanksgiving everyone. Hope you didn't over eat like I did
:-( or :-) depending on your perspective.

A month or so ago, I purchased the ICom A-5. It came with the rechargeable
battery. I have read a lot about that battery so I know that it leaves some
to be desired.

After I charged it the first time, I was able to use my radio for several
hours before the low battery indicator symbol was displayed. Well, I
recharged the battery using my wall charger (the slow one), and left it
charging all this past weekend. Today I turned it on and listened to it for
about 15 minutes when the low battery indicator symbol again displayed.

My question is this, I recall reading where it comes on pretty quick, but is
it expected to come on that quick especially given the fact this is only the
second time I have charged that battery????

Hope that question makes sense.

Thanks.

Harry
PP-ASEL

[Cecil E. Chapman]

Sounds like an issue with 'memory' to me. Some (usually the older style
Ni-Cads) can build up what is often referred to as 'memory'. Sometimes
switching to a charger that has a discharge button will do the trick (i.e.,
you put the battery on the charger, press the discharge button and then
charge normally). If the battery is still under warranty, I would ask for a
no-cost replacement. It is too soon for it to be exhibiting problems like
the one you described IMHO.

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

Check out my personal flying adventures: www.bayareapilot.com
"Harry Gordon" > wrote in message
...
> Happy belated Thanksgiving everyone. Hope you didn't over eat like I did
> :-( or :-) depending on your perspective.
>
> A month or so ago, I purchased the ICom A-5. It came with the rechargeable
> battery. I have read a lot about that battery so I know that it leaves
some
> to be desired.
>
> After I charged it the first time, I was able to use my radio for several
> hours before the low battery indicator symbol was displayed. Well, I
> recharged the battery using my wall charger (the slow one), and left it
> charging all this past weekend. Today I turned it on and listened to it
for
> about 15 minutes when the low battery indicator symbol again displayed.
>
> My question is this, I recall reading where it comes on pretty quick, but
is
> it expected to come on that quick especially given the fact this is only
the
> second time I have charged that battery????
>
> Hope that question makes sense.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Harry
> PP-ASEL
>
>

[Harry Gordon]

Cecil,

Thanks. I failed to mention that the battery that it came with is the type
that does not have a memory. It can be recharged at any level. In the mean
time, I have it back on my charger again. I may end up asking for another
battery.

Harry

"Cecil E. Chapman" > wrote in message
m...
> Sounds like an issue with 'memory' to me. Some (usually the older style
> Ni-Cads) can build up what is often referred to as 'memory'. Sometimes
> switching to a charger that has a discharge button will do the trick
(i.e.,
> you put the battery on the charger, press the discharge button and then
> charge normally). If the battery is still under warranty, I would ask for
a
> no-cost replacement. It is too soon for it to be exhibiting problems like
> the one you described IMHO.
>
> --
> --
> Good Flights!
>
> Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
> PP-ASEL
>
> "We who fly do so for the love of flying.
> We are alive in the air with this miracle
> that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
>
> - Cecil Day Lewis-
>
> Check out my personal flying adventures: www.bayareapilot.com
> "Harry Gordon" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Happy belated Thanksgiving everyone. Hope you didn't over eat like I did
> > :-( or :-) depending on your perspective.
> >
> > A month or so ago, I purchased the ICom A-5. It came with the
rechargeable
> > battery. I have read a lot about that battery so I know that it leaves
> some
> > to be desired.
> >
> > After I charged it the first time, I was able to use my radio for
several
> > hours before the low battery indicator symbol was displayed. Well, I
> > recharged the battery using my wall charger (the slow one), and left it
> > charging all this past weekend. Today I turned it on and listened to it
> for
> > about 15 minutes when the low battery indicator symbol again displayed.
> >
> > My question is this, I recall reading where it comes on pretty quick,
but
> is
> > it expected to come on that quick especially given the fact this is only
> the
> > second time I have charged that battery????
> >
> > Hope that question makes sense.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Harry
> > PP-ASEL
> >
> >
>
>

[COUGARNFW]

Harry...

Amazing how often the charger is forgotten and assumed to be perfect.

Your symptom suggests that the charger isn't...charging.

Check before giving grief to Icom.

Neal

[Morgans]

"Harry Gordon" > wrote in message
...
> Cecil,
>
> Thanks. I failed to mention that the battery that it came with is the type
> that does not have a memory. It can be recharged at any level. In the mean
> time, I have it back on my charger again. I may end up asking for another
> battery.
>
> Harry

First of all, there is no such thing as a NiCad with no memory problems.
Any other thing being said is all marketing. If they are NiMH, then the
memory problem is about gone, but they self discharge more quickly, and are
even more sensitive about overcharges.

If you left it on the charger all weekend, you may have grossly overcharged
and fried the battery. The possibility exists that the charger is not
putting enough juice out.

You need to get creative, and find a way to get a meter in-line, and measure
the volts of the charger, while it is charging, and also the milli amps it
is putting out while it is charging.

Best advice is to get a smart charger to charge the thing. One source is a
place like tower hobbies, like the kind of charger used on RC airplanes and
cars. Then you will know that you have a full charge, without frying the
battery.

[BTIZ]

best advice is to use the "factory charger"

I had an ICOM-22 with the NiCD, the battery lasted about 2yrs in normal
weekend operations, and would last 10hours on a charge..

I replaced it with NiMH, same charger, higher battery amp rating. No
problems, lasts 10-12 hours or more on a single charge.

We use it for "ramp operations" and "aircraft radio" at the local glider
club.

Sounds like you got a bad battery

BT
"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Harry Gordon" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Cecil,
> >
> > Thanks. I failed to mention that the battery that it came with is the
type
> > that does not have a memory. It can be recharged at any level. In the
mean
> > time, I have it back on my charger again. I may end up asking for
another
> > battery.
> >
> > Harry
>
> First of all, there is no such thing as a NiCad with no memory problems.
> Any other thing being said is all marketing. If they are NiMH, then the
> memory problem is about gone, but they self discharge more quickly, and
are
> even more sensitive about overcharges.
>
> If you left it on the charger all weekend, you may have grossly
overcharged
> and fried the battery. The possibility exists that the charger is not
> putting enough juice out.
>
> You need to get creative, and find a way to get a meter in-line, and
measure
> the volts of the charger, while it is charging, and also the milli amps it
> is putting out while it is charging.
>
> Best advice is to get a smart charger to charge the thing. One source is
a
> place like tower hobbies, like the kind of charger used on RC airplanes
and
> cars. Then you will know that you have a full charge, without frying the
> battery.
>
>

[tony roberts]

> A month or so ago, I purchased the ICom A-5. It came with the rechargeable
> battery. I have read a lot about that battery so I know that it leaves some
> to be desired.

Hi Harry
If you carry the A5 for use in an emergency, then no matter what other
replies you receive here - go and buy an AA battery back.

If you are ever sitting out in the boonies, trying to contact help you
will be glad you did, because it just may save your life.
My flight bag always contains lots of AA batteries - for GPS,
Communications and Flashlights. You can't charge that stupid
rechargeable battery when you are sitting next to your wrecked aircraft
waiting for help - but you can put some neww AA batteries in.



Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument :)
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Harry Gordon]

Tony,
The AA battery pack also came with the radio...it is loaded with batteries
and there are extras in my flight bag. My mamma didn't raise no dummy :-).
In fact it was the accessory deal that was offered that was the clincher on
buying it. I really like the A-5. Fortunately, when I was using it I was on
the ground eating lunch and listening to the traffic.

Harry

"tony roberts" > wrote in message
news:nospam-9F5CAD.20531728112003@shawnews...
> > A month or so ago, I purchased the ICom A-5. It came with the
rechargeable
> > battery. I have read a lot about that battery so I know that it leaves
some
> > to be desired.
>
> Hi Harry
> If you carry the A5 for use in an emergency, then no matter what other
> replies you receive here - go and buy an AA battery back.
>
> If you are ever sitting out in the boonies, trying to contact help you
> will be glad you did, because it just may save your life.
> My flight bag always contains lots of AA batteries - for GPS,
> Communications and Flashlights. You can't charge that stupid
> rechargeable battery when you are sitting next to your wrecked aircraft
> waiting for help - but you can put some neww AA batteries in.
>
>
>
> Tony Roberts
> PP-ASEL
> VFR OTT
> Night
> Almost Instrument :)
> Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Harry Gordon]

The battery that is in the A-5 is a Ni-MH 76 mAh. I plugged it back in
yesterday afternoon and just now rechecked it and either the charger isn't
working or the battery is no good, for whatever reason. I am going to stop
by a big electronics repair/sales store today and see if they can test my
charger and go from there. I will also look for the in-line charge meter
someone suggested.

Harry

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:d9Vxb.11632$ML6.10398@fed1read01...
> best advice is to use the "factory charger"
>
> I had an ICOM-22 with the NiCD, the battery lasted about 2yrs in normal
> weekend operations, and would last 10hours on a charge..
>
> I replaced it with NiMH, same charger, higher battery amp rating. No
> problems, lasts 10-12 hours or more on a single charge.
>
> We use it for "ramp operations" and "aircraft radio" at the local glider
> club.
>
> Sounds like you got a bad battery
>
> BT
> "Morgans" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Harry Gordon" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Cecil,
> > >
> > > Thanks. I failed to mention that the battery that it came with is the
> type
> > > that does not have a memory. It can be recharged at any level. In the
> mean
> > > time, I have it back on my charger again. I may end up asking for
> another
> > > battery.
> > >
> > > Harry
> >
> > First of all, there is no such thing as a NiCad with no memory problems.
> > Any other thing being said is all marketing. If they are NiMH, then the
> > memory problem is about gone, but they self discharge more quickly, and
> are
> > even more sensitive about overcharges.
> >
> > If you left it on the charger all weekend, you may have grossly
> overcharged
> > and fried the battery. The possibility exists that the charger is not
> > putting enough juice out.
> >
> > You need to get creative, and find a way to get a meter in-line, and
> measure
> > the volts of the charger, while it is charging, and also the milli amps
it
> > is putting out while it is charging.
> >
> > Best advice is to get a smart charger to charge the thing. One source
is
> a
> > place like tower hobbies, like the kind of charger used on RC airplanes
> and
> > cars. Then you will know that you have a full charge, without frying the
> > battery.
> >
> >
>
>

[Harry Gordon]

Neal,

> Amazing how often the charger is forgotten and assumed to be perfect.

You're right. But you have to start with some kind of assumption when
troubleshooting a problem.

>
> Your symptom suggests that the charger isn't...charging.
>
> Check before giving grief to Icom.

I'm going to get the charger checked today. Thanks for the suggestion. And I
don't like to give "grief" to people...I generally end up with more than I
give :-).

Harry

[Morgans]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:d9Vxb.11632$ML6.10398@fed1read01...
> best advice is to use the "factory charger"
>
> BT

There is nothing magical about a factory charger giving you long battery
life, and long run times.

If you know what you are doing, about any smart charger (peak sensing),
charging at reasonable amperage will charge a battery faster, and with more
capacity than the factory charger ever thought about doing consistently.

If you are not up to speed on this type of thing, by all means, stick to the
factory charger.

I do think you are jumping the gun saying it is a bad battery. It could
just as well be a bad charger, or bad wire, or bad radio.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Harry Gordon" > wrote in message
...
> The battery that is in the A-5 is a Ni-MH 76 mAh. I plugged it back in
> yesterday afternoon and just now rechecked it and either the charger isn't
> working or the battery is no good, for whatever reason. I am going to stop
> by a big electronics repair/sales store today and see if they can test my
> charger and go from there. I will also look for the in-line charge meter
> someone suggested.
>
> Harry

You will have to "rig" something together using some radio shack plugs,
alligator clips, and a volt-amp meter.
--
Jim in NC

[Harry Gordon]

Update report for those that may be interested.

I had the charger checked this morning at an electronics store and it works
fine. As a result, I just sent an E-MAIL to ICom requesting their assistance
on resolving either the bad battery or radio. Someone mentioned that I may
have "fried" the battery. If so, all I can say is there is no meter on the
radio that reflects the condition of the battery. Sounds like a design flaw
to me.

I will let you know what the outcome is. I appreciate all of the responses I
got. Thank you.

Harry

[Casey Wilson]

Probably one of the most demanding uses of batteries is in the radio
controlled modeling arena. Those batteries are used to depletion and
recharged more often than you put gas in your spam can. In my opinion, the
expert when it comes to battery questions is Red Schofield. You can find Red
at:

http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/

Less you scoff at RC modeling, be careful... there are a lot of that fly
full-scale machines.

[Harry Gordon]

> Less you scoff at RC modeling,...

Not hardly ...I use to own a hobby store. I never sold RC models, but I sold
a lot of other stuff :-).

Harry
>
>

[Mike Weller]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:34:08 GMT, "Harry Gordon"
> wrote:

>The battery that is in the A-5 is a Ni-MH 76 mAh.

That is a very small battery. I have an A-3, that uses the same power
as yours, and I use a 1400 mAh Ni-MH battery pack. I don't have the
exact specs for your A-5, but for my A-3, it draws 55mA just
listening, with no squelch break. At 5W (PEP) transmit power, it
draws 1.0A. So just listening, with no audio output, your radio will
have dead batteries in at most, 1.4 hours of use. If the squelch
breaks, you're drawing 240mA at full volume, which is not that loud.
So if you're monitoring a busy clearance delivery, or Tower, or
Approach control, your batteries will last 30 minutes. If you
transmit, with no listening, you will run your battery down in 4.5
minutes. There is no battery charger that you could buy that will
make the basic NiMH battery chemistry do any better.

Mike Weller

[Harry Gordon]

Mike,

After I initially charged the battery, I used the radio on a number of
ocassions to listen to ATC from my house. While I didn't keep track of the
time, I am sure that I listened well over a couple of hours total elapse
time without any problem. I keep the squelch set where the radio is quite
when not receiving voice communications. Oh, I see the confusion. I wrote
76 - I should have written 760 mAh. :-(((( .

Harry


"Mike Weller" > wrote in message
s.com...
> On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:34:08 GMT, "Harry Gordon"
> > wrote:
>
> >The battery that is in the A-5 is a Ni-MH 76 mAh.
>
> That is a very small battery. I have an A-3, that uses the same power
> as yours, and I use a 1400 mAh Ni-MH battery pack. I don't have the
> exact specs for your A-5, but for my A-3, it draws 55mA just
> listening, with no squelch break. At 5W (PEP) transmit power, it
> draws 1.0A. So just listening, with no audio output, your radio will
> have dead batteries in at most, 1.4 hours of use. If the squelch
> breaks, you're drawing 240mA at full volume, which is not that loud.
> So if you're monitoring a busy clearance delivery, or Tower, or
> Approach control, your batteries will last 30 minutes. If you
> transmit, with no listening, you will run your battery down in 4.5
> minutes. There is no battery charger that you could buy that will
> make the basic NiMH battery chemistry do any better.
>
> Mike Weller
>

[Big John]

Harry

From Internet: The A-5 battery

Transmit continuous for 25 minutes
Receive full audio for 1.5 hours.
Squelched for 10 hours.

Of course if you mix you have to adjust these figures to how much you
talk and listen.

Don't know the A-5. Do they make a larger battery pack? Check E.H.
Yost who sells batteries.

I just went to Internet and he has A-5 batteries 9.6V @760 ma Ni-MH
for $49.95.

Didn't get on your thread earlier so don't know how you use your
radio. Can you plug into the A/C electrical system? If not you can
get a sealed battery of 5 - 10 amps and connect to your radio for long
time use.

Have years of experience with Ham hand helds and made a system to use
when I traveled with internal battery, car battery or AC in hotel
room.

If interested in discussion let me contact you via your e-mail and we
can go off line.

Big John KR5K

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:34:08 GMT, "Harry Gordon"
> wrote:

>The battery that is in the A-5 is a Ni-MH 76 mAh. I plugged it back in
>yesterday afternoon and just now rechecked it and either the charger isn't
>working or the battery is no good, for whatever reason. I am going to stop
>by a big electronics repair/sales store today and see if they can test my
>charger and go from there. I will also look for the in-line charge meter
>someone suggested.
>
>Harry
>
>"BTIZ" > wrote in message
>news:d9Vxb.11632$ML6.10398@fed1read01...
>> best advice is to use the "factory charger"
>>
>> I had an ICOM-22 with the NiCD, the battery lasted about 2yrs in normal
>> weekend operations, and would last 10hours on a charge..
>>
>> I replaced it with NiMH, same charger, higher battery amp rating. No
>> problems, lasts 10-12 hours or more on a single charge.
>>
>> We use it for "ramp operations" and "aircraft radio" at the local glider
>> club.
>>
>> Sounds like you got a bad battery
>>
>> BT
>> "Morgans" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Harry Gordon" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > Cecil,
>> > >
>> > > Thanks. I failed to mention that the battery that it came with is the
>> type
>> > > that does not have a memory. It can be recharged at any level. In the
>> mean
>> > > time, I have it back on my charger again. I may end up asking for
>> another
>> > > battery.
>> > >
>> > > Harry
>> >
>> > First of all, there is no such thing as a NiCad with no memory problems.
>> > Any other thing being said is all marketing. If they are NiMH, then the
>> > memory problem is about gone, but they self discharge more quickly, and
>> are
>> > even more sensitive about overcharges.
>> >
>> > If you left it on the charger all weekend, you may have grossly
>> overcharged
>> > and fried the battery. The possibility exists that the charger is not
>> > putting enough juice out.
>> >
>> > You need to get creative, and find a way to get a meter in-line, and
>> measure
>> > the volts of the charger, while it is charging, and also the milli amps
>it
>> > is putting out while it is charging.
>> >
>> > Best advice is to get a smart charger to charge the thing. One source
>is
>> a
>> > place like tower hobbies, like the kind of charger used on RC airplanes
>> and
>> > cars. Then you will know that you have a full charge, without frying the
>> > battery.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

[Mike Weller]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 23:52:30 GMT, "Harry Gordon"
> wrote:

>Mike,
>
> Oh, I see the confusion. I wrote 76 - I should have written 760 > > mAh. :-(((( .
>
>Harry
>

Ah so! No problem, just multiply the times I derived by a factor of
ten.

I've found that for a "working" radio, you need the 1400 mAh for it to
make it through a full day. I think that you can do that with the
alkaline AA cell. What I've found best is to use NiMH AA cells in the
alkaline battery pack that came with your radio. It keeps you from
buying alkaline batteries everyday, so the charger and batteries pay
for themselves in less than a week of normal usage. Just be sure to
bring along extra alkaline batteries to give you a second or third
day's use if you need it for emergencies, i.e. where you are forced
down away from an airport.

Mike Weller

[Paul Sengupta]

Have you left the radio on to see how long you get?

Paul

"Harry Gordon" > wrote in message
...
> If so, all I can say is there is no meter on the
> radio that reflects the condition of the battery. Sounds like a design
flaw
> to me.

[Andrew Gideon]

Harry Gordon wrote:

> If so, all I can say is there is no
> meter on the radio that reflects the condition of the battery. Sounds like
> a design flaw to me.

I'd love to have a meter on my older ICOM. But I seem to recall (from
discussions here, in fact) that different types of batteries have different
patterns of discharge. So a meter designed for one type of battery
wouldn't work well for a different type.

Still...why not make this a feature of the battery packs?

- Andrew

[Richard Russell]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:23:31 GMT, "Harry Gordon"
> wrote:

>Update report for those that may be interested.
>
>I had the charger checked this morning at an electronics store and it works
>fine. As a result, I just sent an E-MAIL to ICom requesting their assistance
>on resolving either the bad battery or radio. Someone mentioned that I may
>have "fried" the battery. If so, all I can say is there is no meter on the
>radio that reflects the condition of the battery. Sounds like a design flaw
>to me.
>
>I will let you know what the outcome is. I appreciate all of the responses I
>got. Thank you.
>
>Harry
>
>

Harry,
I had a similar situation with my A5. Below, you will find the email
that I sent to ICOM and their less than satisfactory responses. I
have not done anything yet because the situation has improved. It
used to be that the battery sometimes discharged while it was supposed
to be charging and after 15 hours I had nothing. Lately, it has been
charging as per expectations. I am not yet confident that the problem
has "disappeared" but I am hopeful. I'm still not satisfied with
performance with the alkalines. The good news is that they have a
good warranty. I'm confident that if my problems are not gone that
they will correct them. Good luck.

Rich Russell

(email exchange with ICOM)
The alkaline battery packs on supplies 9.0 volts to the unit. The
battery was designed for the 9.6 volt NI-CAD rechargeable battery
pack.
Since the alkaline are already running at a lower the radio will
indicate a low battery.

Steve Burling
Technical Support Representative

ICOM America, Inc.
2380 116th Ave NE
Bellevue, WA 98004
Ph. (425) 454-7619
Fax (425) 637-8417
www.icomamerica.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Russell ]
Posted At: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:01 AM
Posted To: Avionics
Conversation: A5 Battery issues
Subject: RE: A5 Battery issues

Steve,
What about the alkaline battery problem? Any thoughts on that?
Rich Russell

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Burling ]On Behalf Of
Avionics Tech Support
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:02 PM
To:
Subject: RE: A5 Battery issues

Thank you for contcting ICOM Technical Support.

The battery charging takes 15 to 20 hours.

IF the unit only lasts for ten minutes after the charge then your unit
needs to sent in for repair.

Steve Burling
Technical Support Representative

ICOM America, Inc.
2380 116th Ave NE
Bellevue, WA 98004
Ph. (425) 454-7619
Fax (425) 637-8417
www.icomamerica.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Russell ]
Posted At: Friday, August 08, 2003 7:43 AM
Posted To: Avionics
Conversation: A5 Battery issues
Subject: A5 Battery issues

I have a new A5 and I am experiencing two different battery issues.
First,
I am having difficulty charging the rechargeable battery with the wall
charger that came with the unit. It is taking me an average of three
attempts to charge the unit. After the failed attempts, the unit will
turn
on but will loose all power within ten minutes. Once I do
successfully
charge the unit it will hold the charge as expected. Is this a known
problem or possibly user error?

Secondly, and even more important, is a problem that I'm having with
alkaline batteries. I have the optional alkaline battery pack and
when
I
install new and fresh batteries the unit will flash a low battery
light
and
subsequently die at the first effort to transmit. By alkaline back-up
is
essentially useless. I have tried numerous batteries from different
batches
and it is clearly not a battery deficiency issue.

I am really hoping to resolve both of these issues without sending the
unit
back. Any advice? Thanks.
Rich Russell

[Harry Gordon]

Sent the e-mail to ICom and they quickly responded that if I wanted to I
could send them the unit for repair. I discovered that there was an
authorized ICom repair station here in San Antonio, so I took it to them on
Tuesday for repair. That was the good news...

The bad news is they called me this morning and told me that it was in fact
the radio itself that was bad. However they COULD NOT repair the unit and
told me and I needed to send it in to ICom for repair. They also told me
that since I did not buy the radio from them if they sent it to ICom for me
it would cost me $30 shipping/handling fees :-(. So, I have the radio in my
living room and tomorrow I will box it up and send it to ICom.

Since it is new and I have only had it for 2 months, I am going to request a
new radio. We shall see what happens, and I will let you know.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions and ideas.

Harry