GPS Choices

[Sully]

I was wondering if I could get some input from others on a few GPS's?
I have been looking at the Garmin 196 & Street Pilot III as well as
the Lowrance 500 & 1000.

The major advantage that I see with the 196 is that you can use it for
turn by turn directions in a vehicle. I have been looking at getting
a GPS for the vehicle that would do just that. From what I can tell
the price between the 196 and most others are only a couple 100 (for
vehicle).

The main draw back to buying either of the ones I have listed so far
is that it looks like the only way I can get them is to buy online
which also means I don't get to play with it first to see exactly what
features I like or don't like. I have found places that carry Garmin
and Lowrance in the area but none carry any of the aviation models.

Thanks for the help.

[Rosspilot]

I have the 196. I love it. I haven't even begun to crack the surface of what
it can do, but it does everything I need.

I have had it since May, replacing a 6 year old Magellan Sky Star Plus.


www.Rosspilot.com

[Wayne]

The 196 is great. Don't bother buying the video tape for $20.00 though,
it doesn't explain much of anything. The unit is great, I never travel
without it, by air, or by car. I have a 176C as well, it looks great but the
features of the 196 make it stay at home.

I bought mine for $869.00 plus tax at Sun-N-Fun. The cheapest place I
have seen t was at the AOPA fly-in in Frederick, MD, it was $869, tax
included. I hightly recommend the unit.

Wayne

"Sully" > wrote in message
...
> I was wondering if I could get some input from others on a few GPS's?
> I have been looking at the Garmin 196 & Street Pilot III as well as
> the Lowrance 500 & 1000.
>
> The major advantage that I see with the 196 is that you can use it for
> turn by turn directions in a vehicle. I have been looking at getting
> a GPS for the vehicle that would do just that. From what I can tell
> the price between the 196 and most others are only a couple 100 (for
> vehicle).
>
> The main draw back to buying either of the ones I have listed so far
> is that it looks like the only way I can get them is to buy online
> which also means I don't get to play with it first to see exactly what
> features I like or don't like. I have found places that carry Garmin
> and Lowrance in the area but none carry any of the aviation models.
>
> Thanks for the help.

[Jay Honeck]

> Thanks for the help.

Take a look at the AvMap. It's absolutely awesome.

We bought ours at OSH 2003, and it has utterly changed the way we fly.
It's on the high end of price, but you will not regret buying it,
guaranteed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ken Reed]

> Take a look at the AvMap. It's absolutely awesome.

> We bought ours at OSH 2003, and it has utterly changed the way we fly.
> It's on the high end of price, but you will not regret buying it,
> guaranteed.

I bought an AvMap upon Jay's recommendation and can say it is an awesome
unit. HUGE color moving map, flight plans - even approaches (VFR GPS).

KR

[Jay Honeck]

> I bought an AvMap upon Jay's recommendation and can say it is an awesome
> unit. HUGE color moving map, flight plans - even approaches (VFR GPS).

Glad to hear it, Ken.

We had an "interesting" experience with our AvMap today, coming in after
dark. We don't often fly at night, and Mary has not flown with the AvMap in
the dark since we bought it last July.

As the ambient light diminished, she needed to turn the brightness down. As
she was adjusting the brightness, the unit suddenly died! Assuming it was
the power cord coming out of the cigar lighter (we've bumped it out before),
I started screwing around with the cord. I even took the fuse out of the
lighter attachment to check it. It was fine, but the screen remained black,
and she ended up navigating visually (gasp!) the last ten miles or so.

Once shut down on the ground, we were able to trouble-shoot. Without the
engine noise we could hear that the AvMap still "beeped" whenever we pushed
a button, so we knew it *was* getting power. Eventually we aimed the
flashlight at the face of the unit, and could just *barely* see the map.
Turns out Mary had turned the brightness all the way OFF -- a setting we did
not know was possible.

So, be aware -- you can actually turn the screen OFF with the brightness
control, leaving you with nothing to see...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[dave]

I have a 196. It's very easy to use but you need to read the owners
manual. I've used the yoke mount in rentals. In my citabria, I made an
adjustable mount with panavise cell phone bracket. My plane has a king klx
35 gps/com, basically one of the older generation gps/coms. The gps
features on the 196 are much easiers to use. Reception has always been
very good, I've never needed to use the remote antenna.

You can get a pretty good idea of how the unit works at most marine shops.
Look at the garmin gpsmap 176. It's the same case and most of the same
buttons. I bought the 176C, color version, for my boat. It won't show you
any aviation features, but you can tell if the display size and feel of the
unit meet your needs. My satisfaction with the 176C convinced that the 196
was the right aviation gps for me. Since the 196 has marine features, I
gave my 176C to my father in-law and now use the 196 on my boat. I've
tried to use the gps in the car but I find it's too distracting.

Strangely enough, despite all of the features of my 196 and klx35, I find
that a plain old chart is sometimes the best resource.

Jay, I had a similar experience with a friends boat. He has a top of the
line gps that "quit" working on him. He said "It was working fine last
night". He had set the brightness so low the night before that the next
day, it appeared dead. Took me a while to figure that out!

Dave
'68 7ECA

"Sully" > wrote in message
...
> I was wondering if I could get some input from others on a few GPS's?
> I have been looking at the Garmin 196 & Street Pilot III as well as
> the Lowrance 500 & 1000.
>
> The major advantage that I see with the 196 is that you can use it for
> turn by turn directions in a vehicle. I have been looking at getting
> a GPS for the vehicle that would do just that. From what I can tell
> the price between the 196 and most others are only a couple 100 (for
> vehicle).
>
> The main draw back to buying either of the ones I have listed so far
> is that it looks like the only way I can get them is to buy online
> which also means I don't get to play with it first to see exactly what
> features I like or don't like. I have found places that carry Garmin
> and Lowrance in the area but none carry any of the aviation models.
>
> Thanks for the help.

[Thomas Borchert]

Sully,

if you are at all interested in computers, the PDA/GPS/software combo
might be of interest, too. Have a look at www.controlvision.com

One thing when comparing Garmin and Lowrance: Pay attention to the
accessories that are included. With Lowrance, you'll get everything
from street mapping software (not turn by turn, though) to a yoke
holder included. At Garmin, you'll pay for all that stuff.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[David Reinhart]

I think the Lowrance AirMap 500 is the best bang for the buck for a
dedicated GPS. It goes for about half of the 196 and does about 90% of
what the 196 does. It doesn't have the "partial panel" screen or
approaches, but it does have extended centerlines. It comes with software
to do enhanced ground mapping and even a SD card reader/writer so you can
load high detail maps for your destination. It won't give you turn by
turn, but it will allow you to search for points of interest (like your
hotel) and enough detail to drive the route. Battery life on 2 AAs is
very good and accuracy with the WAAS enabled is very good, too. It locks
on quickly and the remote active antenna helps on keeping a good lock.
The screen quality is also excellent.

I'm a big one on redundancy, so I actually fly with a back up to the 500,
a GPS program for my Palm that works with a DeLorme Earthmate GPS. So I
have VOR, LORAN, and GPSx2.

Dave Reinhart


Sully wrote:

> I was wondering if I could get some input from others on a few GPS's?
> I have been looking at the Garmin 196 & Street Pilot III as well as
> the Lowrance 500 & 1000.
>
> The major advantage that I see with the 196 is that you can use it for
> turn by turn directions in a vehicle. I have been looking at getting
> a GPS for the vehicle that would do just that. From what I can tell
> the price between the 196 and most others are only a couple 100 (for
> vehicle).
>
> The main draw back to buying either of the ones I have listed so far
> is that it looks like the only way I can get them is to buy online
> which also means I don't get to play with it first to see exactly what
> features I like or don't like. I have found places that carry Garmin
> and Lowrance in the area but none carry any of the aviation models.
>
> Thanks for the help.

[Jay Honeck]

> I think the Lowrance AirMap 500 is the best bang for the buck for a
> dedicated GPS.

Agreed. Just pray they support it in four years, when something breaks,
however.

Lowrance orphaned my Airmap 300 after just 48 months, and lost me as a
customer forever.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[David Reinhart]

Somebody in customer service finally told me that they weren't planning on
any discount for owners of dead original AirMap units. My response was that
I would plan on my next GPS being a Garmin. I got the name of some
higher-up and sent a letter of complaint and finally got a discount. Not a
big one, but it was a better price than any web site.

Dave Reinhart


Jay Honeck wrote:

> > I think the Lowrance AirMap 500 is the best bang for the buck for a
> > dedicated GPS.
>
> Agreed. Just pray they support it in four years, when something breaks,
> however.
>
> Lowrance orphaned my Airmap 300 after just 48 months, and lost me as a
> customer forever.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Somebody in customer service finally told me that they weren't planning on
> any discount for owners of dead original AirMap units.

What happened to your AirMap, and which model did you have?

Mine just stopped "seeing" the database one day. It still comes and goes
(we use it on the co-pilot's yoke), but it's mostly gone.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Sylvain]

"Jay Honeck"
> Agreed. Just pray they support it in four years, when something breaks,
> however.

to be fair, these units are quite robust: I still have my original
AirMap (the one that came up before the 300) and it still works great,
despite not being handled with all the love and care that it should
receive...

--Sylvain

[Dave Butler]

Sully wrote:
> I was wondering if I could get some input from others on a few GPS's?
> I have been looking at the Garmin 196 & Street Pilot III as well as
> the Lowrance 500 & 1000.
>
> The major advantage that I see with the 196 is that you can use it for
> turn by turn directions in a vehicle. I have been looking at getting
> a GPS for the vehicle that would do just that. From what I can tell
> the price between the 196 and most others are only a couple 100 (for
> vehicle).

I think I paid $400 for the "auto kit" for the 196. I'd say it's marginal
utility for that price. I like it as an aviation GPS, and it's OK in the car,
too, but not worth the extra $400 I paid for the car kit.

The auto database is quite out of date, and several roads I use regularly are
not in the database. I just got an offer to purchase an updated database, so
maybe that will take care of that issue. The database doesn't carry a
"current-as-of" date. The road datebase upgrades are fairly expensive.

The auto-routing in auto (i.e.not aviation) mode has a tendency to send me down
a certain dirt road nearby. There seems to be no way to configure "ignore
unpaved roads".

Not sure whether you can cobble together your own "car kit" for a lot less than
$400. IIRC the kit consists of a sort-of bean-bag mount that sits on car's
dashboard, a 64M flash card, and the database CD. You might find another way of
mounting, find the flash somewhere else cheaper, and buy the database
separately. As I said, not sure whether this is feasible.

>
> The main draw back to buying either of the ones I have listed so far
> is that it looks like the only way I can get them is to buy online
> which also means I don't get to play with it first to see exactly what
> features I like or don't like. I have found places that carry Garmin
> and Lowrance in the area but none carry any of the aviation models.
>
> Thanks for the help.

[David Reinhart]

I had the "original" AirMap, the same form-factor as the 300.

Its memory started acting up. I would be flying a stored route and all the
routes (current and saved) would vanish. Or, if you're asking what I did with
it, I parted it out on eBay to help pay for the 500.

Dave Reinhart


Jay Honeck wrote:

> > Somebody in customer service finally told me that they weren't planning on
> > any discount for owners of dead original AirMap units.
>
> What happened to your AirMap, and which model did you have?
>
> Mine just stopped "seeing" the database one day. It still comes and goes
> (we use it on the co-pilot's yoke), but it's mostly gone.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Gerry Caron]

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
...
>
> I think I paid $400 for the "auto kit" for the 196. I'd say it's marginal
> utility for that price. I like it as an aviation GPS, and it's OK in the
car,
> too, but not worth the extra $400 I paid for the car kit.

List is $349. MAP is $299. I paid $269 at Avionics West.

> The auto database is quite out of date, and several roads I use regularly
are
> not in the database. I just got an offer to purchase an updated database,
so
> maybe that will take care of that issue. The database doesn't carry a
> "current-as-of" date. The road datebase upgrades are fairly expensive.

Hasn't been a big problem for me, but I'll probably upgrade. The only big
shortage is all the subdivisions that have gone in around here in the last
couple years (based on what is there, it appears the data was from sometime
in 2000). The wife uses the car mode more than I do, and that was part of
the argument for getting it -- it wasn't just a toy for my flying.

> The auto-routing in auto (i.e.not aviation) mode has a tendency to send me
down
> a certain dirt road nearby. There seems to be no way to configure "ignore
> unpaved roads".

The routing rules are obviously based on some general assumptions about
roads and average speeds for those roads. So sometimes it makes choices
that I wouldn't choose knowing the road. I find doing the routing on the PC
lets me tweak the route -- it's pretty easy to get what I want with a few
well chosen "via" waypoints. That doesn't help when I'm out somewhere and
start looking for an address, but then I'll usually take what help I can
get.

> Not sure whether you can cobble together your own "car kit" for a lot less
than
> $400. IIRC the kit consists of a sort-of bean-bag mount that sits on car's
> dashboard, a 64M flash card, and the database CD. You might find another
way of
> mounting, find the flash somewhere else cheaper, and buy the database
> separately. As I said, not sure whether this is feasible.

It also includes the USB card programmer, so the kit is a few bucks cheaper
than the piece price. Problem is the flash is proprietary and Garmin won't
sell the City Select CD alone.

The 196 is great in the plane. In the car, it's as good as the StreetPilot
III except it doesn't do voice prompts -- it just chimes and displays a
pop-up message. Works fine for me and the wife is happy with it.

Gerry

[Dave Butler]

Gerry Caron wrote:
> "Dave Butler" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I think I paid $400 for the "auto kit" for the 196. I'd say it's marginal
>>utility for that price. I like it as an aviation GPS, and it's OK in the
>
> car,
>
>>too, but not worth the extra $400 I paid for the car kit.
>
>
> List is $349. MAP is $299. I paid $269 at Avionics West.

OK, my memory is probably incorrect. ...but isn't Garmin notorious for
controlling the price of its products? How do you get a discount? I thought I
shopped around, but obviously I missed something. All the places I shopped had
virtually the same price (but obviously I don't remember what price I paid).

DGB
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

[Steve P]

On 12/2/2003 11:25 AM after considerable forethought, Dave Butler wrote:
>
>
> OK, my memory is probably incorrect. ...but isn't Garmin notorious for
> controlling the price of its products? How do you get a discount? I
> thought I shopped around, but obviously I missed something. All the
> places I shopped had virtually the same price (but obviously I don't
> remember what price I paid).
>
> DGB
> Remove SHIRT to reply directly.
>

Avionics West does tend to discount the list price. I saved a couple of
hundred on my 295 when I bought it a few years ago.

Steve P

[David Reinhart]

The NeverLost system in Hertz cars is by Garmin, and it is fantastic. It's
smart enough to change routes based on time of day, voice directions, on and
on. I spent a week on Long Island with one of those in the car and never got
lost once. The only thing I couldn't find (which isn't saying it's not there)
was a way to set a location, like my hotel, so I could just punch in "go here"
instead of entering the address again.

Dave Reinhart


Gerry Caron wrote:

> "Dave Butler" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I think I paid $400 for the "auto kit" for the 196. I'd say it's marginal
> > utility for that price. I like it as an aviation GPS, and it's OK in the
> car,
> > too, but not worth the extra $400 I paid for the car kit.
>
> List is $349. MAP is $299. I paid $269 at Avionics West.
>
> > The auto database is quite out of date, and several roads I use regularly
> are
> > not in the database. I just got an offer to purchase an updated database,
> so
> > maybe that will take care of that issue. The database doesn't carry a
> > "current-as-of" date. The road datebase upgrades are fairly expensive.
>
> Hasn't been a big problem for me, but I'll probably upgrade. The only big
> shortage is all the subdivisions that have gone in around here in the last
> couple years (based on what is there, it appears the data was from sometime
> in 2000). The wife uses the car mode more than I do, and that was part of
> the argument for getting it -- it wasn't just a toy for my flying.
>
> > The auto-routing in auto (i.e.not aviation) mode has a tendency to send me
> down
> > a certain dirt road nearby. There seems to be no way to configure "ignore
> > unpaved roads".
>
> The routing rules are obviously based on some general assumptions about
> roads and average speeds for those roads. So sometimes it makes choices
> that I wouldn't choose knowing the road. I find doing the routing on the PC
> lets me tweak the route -- it's pretty easy to get what I want with a few
> well chosen "via" waypoints. That doesn't help when I'm out somewhere and
> start looking for an address, but then I'll usually take what help I can
> get.
>
> > Not sure whether you can cobble together your own "car kit" for a lot less
> than
> > $400. IIRC the kit consists of a sort-of bean-bag mount that sits on car's
> > dashboard, a 64M flash card, and the database CD. You might find another
> way of
> > mounting, find the flash somewhere else cheaper, and buy the database
> > separately. As I said, not sure whether this is feasible.
>
> It also includes the USB card programmer, so the kit is a few bucks cheaper
> than the piece price. Problem is the flash is proprietary and Garmin won't
> sell the City Select CD alone.
>
> The 196 is great in the plane. In the car, it's as good as the StreetPilot
> III except it doesn't do voice prompts -- it just chimes and displays a
> pop-up message. Works fine for me and the wife is happy with it.
>
> Gerry

[Gerry Caron]

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
...
> Gerry Caron wrote:
> > List is $349. MAP is $299. I paid $269 at Avionics West.
>
> OK, my memory is probably incorrect. ...but isn't Garmin notorious for
> controlling the price of its products? How do you get a discount? I
thought I
> shopped around, but obviously I missed something. All the places I shopped
had
> virtually the same price (but obviously I don't remember what price I
paid).
>
Garmin does an excellent job of maintaining margins on its products. It's
about charging what the market will bear and keeping costs in line. That's
good business.

Garmin can set the price it charges it's dealers and the minimum advertised
price (MAP) is enforced as a requirement of being a dealer. But beyond
that, fair trade laws say the dealers can charge anything they want for it.
When browsing, you'll only see the MAP price -- but ASK for the price and
they can quote their real price.

Checked at Avionics West's web site. Price is listed at $299. Click buy to
put it in your shopping cart and the price becomes $269.

MAP policies made some sense when ads were placed in magazines and T-A-P 5
months in advance. In today's world of e-commerce it's pretty much
pointless, but it hangs on for some reason.

Gerry

[Gerry Caron]

"David Reinhart" > wrote in message
...
> The NeverLost system in Hertz cars is by Garmin, and it is fantastic.
It's
> smart enough to change routes based on time of day, voice directions, on
and
> on. I spent a week on Long Island with one of those in the car and never
got
> lost once. The only thing I couldn't find (which isn't saying it's not
there)
> was a way to set a location, like my hotel, so I could just punch in "go
here"
> instead of entering the address again.

Every NeverLost system I've seen was built by Magellan (now part of Thales).
Tho they do work well most of the time. I did get one once that would
reboot every 5 minutes losing the destination in the process. Gave up after
the second failure. I can't say much nice about the strange alpha entry
cursoring around the field. Definitely prefer the scroll up/down method on
my Garmin.

Gerry