Where do posters go?

[James Blakely]

I've noticed something interesting about the aviation newsgroups: posters
tend to disappear. I don't mean the posts getting lost, I mean that certain
people will post for a while and then just stop.

The way I see it, these groups have 3 types of inhabitants: the prolific
posters, the lurk mostly but post sometimes (who I feel I am a part), and
then people who post for a while and then disappear.

For example, a year or so ago, someone by the name of Tracey was asking
about questions about the medical. It seemed that she was on some sort of
medication that may have been a problem. She posted for a good 3 or 6
months and then nothing.

Another example: When I first started lurking this group, there are a
gentleman who worked as a professor of aerospace. He kept yelling at us for
discussing aviation accidents before the NTSB reports were completed. After
a while, gone.

I could go on and on reciting examples, but you know what I'm talking about.

Do these people decide to get out of aviation? I know that nobody here
knows for sure (unless you know the person some other way) so I guess this
is more of a general wondering than anything else. (I would be really
shocked if someone posted what happened to everyone how ever posted here but
then stopped.)

I guess what got me thinking about this was that I was wondering how many
(what percentage) of people get into aviation only to leave it. I think it
happens more than most think. (And, no, I'm not talking about the
percentage who fly until they cannot pass the medical due to advanced age.
I'm talking about the people who start flying and then, months or years
later, quit.) If all these people who have stopped posting are any
indication, then the number must be quite large.

[Greg Esres]

<<If all these people who have stopped posting are any indication,
then the number must be quite large.>>

I don't think it is any indication. There are far more reasons to
stop posting to newsgroups than losing interest in aviation.

I don't personally know ANY pilots who visit this newsgroup. Most
aren't even aware of its existence.

[Chris W]

James Blakely wrote:
> I've noticed something interesting about the aviation newsgroups: posters
> tend to disappear. . .

I don't see anything odd about this at all. I'm sure that many who have
posted on this NG are like me and have many other interests that some
times take their focus away from aviation to the point of not paying
much attention to this NG. I am also sure that many get busy with life
and just don't find the time to post anymore. Sometimes when I have a
question on a topic, I will post a question to an appropriate NG and
then hang around for a while and answer other peoples posts as kind of a
thinks for the help kind of thing, then I won't be heard from again till
I have another question for that NG. Once I start building the
homebuilt plane I plan on building you won't see much of me here because
I will be to busy building.

Chris W
Oklahoma City

[Dan Luke]

"Greg Esres" wrote:
> I don't personally know ANY pilots who visit this newsgroup.

Me neither, until I happened to run into Greg Arnold at the gas pumps at
St. Elmo Airport one day. We got to talking about his YAK (very cool),
introduced ourselves, and he recognized my name from r.a.*.

> Most aren't even aware of its existence.

My regular pilot buddies don't even know usenet exists, and I've had no
luck getting them interested. Even setting up a reader in their AOL
accounts is beyond most of them.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Teacherjh]

>>
My regular pilot buddies don't even know usenet exists, and I've had no
luck getting them interested. Even setting up a reader in their AOL
accounts is beyond most of them.
<<

Keyword "newsgroups"

Or, even faster (but =very= nerdy <g> keyword "news:rec.aviation.piloting"

(no quotes)

Sheesh, if this is too much for them, how do they ever figure out what runway
to land on?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[C J Campbell]

"Greg Esres" > wrote in message
...
|
| I don't personally know ANY pilots who visit this newsgroup. Most
| aren't even aware of its existence.

I have met several pilots who post on this group.

[Jay Honeck]

> Sheesh, if this is too much for them, how do they ever figure out what
runway
> to land on?

What makes you think they can do *that* either? ;-)

Seriously, I've tried to introduce a couple of local pilots to newsgroups.
In most cases, the textual format (Read: NO PICTURES) causes their eyes to
glaze over.

Bottom line: This is a forum for highly literate people -- which is
extraordinarily rare.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Harry Gordon]

I would dare say that there are as many reasons for dropping out of a
newsgroup as there are people who do so. I certainly can't speak for them,
but as for myself...when I was an early student, I would make routine
postings about my flying progress and generally got really great feedback.
However, one day, I posted something, don't remember if it was a question or
made a statement or whatever, but someone replied and raked me over the
coals. Well, I said to myself, if that is what I am to expect, I would
rather spend my time in the books. It took a long time for me to work up the
ability to start posting again. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, it
wasn't until I finally passed my checkride that I began posting again with
regularity; and even now, do so with great caution. But that is why I
dropped out for so long. For other newsgroups that I dropped out of was
because the subjects no longer applied to me for whatever reason.

Harry
PP-ASEL

[John Harlow]

> I've noticed something interesting about the aviation newsgroups: posters
> tend to disappear.

Tis true. I depend on certain posters to learn such terms as "splaps" and
"aptmosphere" - how am I to expand my knowledge of aviation when they
disappear?

[Wizard of Draws]

I'm often reluctant to jump into a thread because invariably, posting to
any news group increases my visibility and ends up increasing my client
count. Then I have no time to follow up on my posts and it makes me
appear to be a troll of sorts.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

"Cartoons with a Touch of Magic"
http://www.wizardofdraws.com
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

[Teacherjh]

>>
Bottom line: This is a forum for highly literate people -- which is
extraordinarily rare.
<<

I'm as cynical as the next guy (*cynic: n: an optomist who has met reality
unexpectedly") but that's over the top. This is most definately not a forum
for "highly literate" people. IT requires the ability to misspell,
misattribute, misunderstand, misbehave, and utterly mangle the English
language. It's filled with a bunch of maroons (and for the OS-challenged,
macaroons), and utter imbiciles who are totally incapable of appreciating the
pearls of wisdom dropping from our ruby red lips.

Anybody who can pound on a keyboard (vertantly, or inad) can do the Usenet
thing.

But it does require interest, and maybe they are just not interested. It's
like hangar flying. Nice, but I'd rather do the real thing. I won't buy
inability as the reason people don't come here.

Disinterest for many reasons, yes. But not inability. If you can read a
sectional or program a GPS, you have the smarts. (and if you can do both,
you're a dying breed <g>(

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Judah]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:XZbyb.362668$Fm2.362602@attbi_s04:

> Bottom line: This is a forum for highly literate people -- which is
> extraordinarily rare.

Highly literate? Oh come now! Have you seen some of the posts we get on
here?!

;)

[Larry Fransson]

On 2003-11-29 19:39:53 -0800, (Teacherjh) said:

> >>
> Bottom line: This is a forum for highly literate people -- which is
> extraordinarily rare.
> <<
>
> IT requires the ability to misspell,
> misattribute, misunderstand, misbehave, and utterly mangle the English
> language. It's filled with a bunch of maroons (and for the OS-challenged,
> macaroons), and utter imbiciles...

And with that, you would seem to have proven your point about spelling, eh?

[Larry Fransson]

On 2003-11-29 14:24:11 -0800, "James Blakely" > said:

> For example, a year or so ago, someone by the name of Tracey was asking
> about questions about the medical. It seemed that she was on some sort of
> medication that may have been a problem. She posted for a good 3 or 6
> months and then nothing.

She quit flying for a couple of reasons. Last she posted here, she was thinking
about starting again. Nothing since, though.

Speaking for myself, I quit reading and posting to newsgroups a couple of months
ago. It just took too much time out of my day with no real benefit that I could find.
That, and I kept getting drawn into OT threads, and I hate when that happens.
Again, too much time, no real benefit.

I only recently started reading and posting again because I'm beta testing a
newsreader. Once the beta testing is done, I'll disappear again.

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Judah > writes:

> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
> news:XZbyb.362668$Fm2.362602@attbi_s04:
>
> > Bottom line: This is a forum for highly literate people -- which is
> > extraordinarily rare.
>
> Highly literate? Oh come now! Have you seen some of the posts we get on
> here?!
>
> ;)

Yes. Have you seen some of the memos that run around most offices?
The people here are pretty literate by modern standards.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <noguns-nomoney.com> <www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <dragaera.info/>

[Craig]

"James Blakely" > wrote in message >...
> I've noticed something interesting about the aviation newsgroups: posters
> tend to disappear. I don't mean the posts getting lost, I mean that certain
> people will post for a while and then just stop.
>

Life happens.......I'm currently working 60+ hours a week. Now tack on
that we just bought a home in a community with an airstrip and are
moving, designing and building a new shop, searching for some
equipment for the shop, working on the designs for our retirement home
in a different airstrip community in another state, trying to get any
work done on my three restoration projects and dealing with a three
year old son and helping my disabled wife with her needs....Kinda
limits the time that I have these days to participate in the groups
that I am active in. When the weather is really bad, or I'm down sick
is when I get to spend the most time reading and responding. When we
are shut down at work waiting on inspection or parts or have a timed
wait task, I can usually get a few minutes to read the groups.

Craig C.

[Peter Gottlieb]

"Larry Fransson" > wrote in message
news:2003112920100843658%lfransson@comcastnet...
>
> Speaking for myself, I quit reading and posting to newsgroups a couple of
months
> ago. It just took too much time out of my day with no real benefit that I
could find.

There's a lot of truth to that.

[Bob Noel]

In article <2003112920100843658%lfransson@comcastnet>, Larry Fransson
> wrote:

> I only recently started reading and posting again because I'm beta
> testing a
> newsreader. Once the beta testing is done, I'll disappear again.

and now your posts are appearing to be "better formatted" in terms
of wrapping (btw)

--
Bob Noel

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:11:18 -0600, "Dan Luke"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>Even setting up a reader in their AOL
>accounts is beyond most of them.

It is that aspect of usenet that tends to raise the newsgroup signal
to noise ratio. I see the requisite knowledge to provide the
news-reader client software with an nntp server address as sort of a
flitter of the inept.

[Dan Luke]

"Larry Fransson" wrote:
> Speaking for myself, I quit reading and posting to newsgroups a couple
of
> months ago. It just took too much time out of my day with no real
benefit
> that I could find.

Gotta disagree with you there, Larry. I believe I get tremendous benefit
from r.a.*, and not just from the things I learn about flying. The
opportunity to converse with such a disparate group of characters is a
great gift I could not receive any other way. In a way, I consider many
of the people here friends, and that certainly makes usenet worthwhile.

> I only recently started reading and posting again because I'm beta
> testing a newsreader. Once the beta testing is done, I'll
> disappear again.

I hope you'll stick around. I appreciate the experience evident in your
posts.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 02:15:44 GMT, "Harry Gordon"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

> someone replied and raked me over the
>coals. Well, I said to myself, if that is what I am to expect, I would
>rather spend my time in the books. It took a long time for me to work up the
>ability to start posting again. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, it
>wasn't until I finally passed my checkride that I began posting again with
>regularity; and even now, do so with great caution.

When AT&T first studied public participation in usenet, they
discovered that the perceived shield of physical distance and relative
anonymity often emboldened posters to pen uncivil personal attacks.
These became known as flames.

See:
http://bianca.ctrl-c.liu.se/~ingvar/jargon/f.html#flame

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:24:11 GMT, "James Blakely"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>I guess what got me thinking about this was that I was wondering how many
>(what percentage) of people get into aviation only to leave it. I think it
>happens more than most think. (And, no, I'm not talking about the
>percentage who fly until they cannot pass the medical due to advanced age.
>I'm talking about the people who start flying and then, months or years
>later, quit.) If all these people who have stopped posting are any
>indication, then the number must be quite large.
>

I suspect that you are correct in intuiting that the GA pilot dropout
rate is quite high, especially among student pilots. IMO there are
four main contributors.

1. The fear of physical harm and/or fear of inadequate personal
mastery of aviation piloting that may result in physical harm. There
are those individuals whose lack of confidence and/or posession of a
chronically marginal piloting skill level causes them to perceive,
that actively practicing their airman's skills (flight) will lead to
their demise.

2. The necessity to continuously practice one's piloting skills
to stay current and safe. Aeronautical piloting shares a common
hidden cost with high performance car ownership often not considered
before purchase. The new owner of a Farrari who saved for years to be
able to own it soon discovers that the astronomical financial cost of
insurance and repairs prohibit one of his income level from
comfortably possessing one. The amount of time required to stay
current also may not be available. Often these pilots return to
aviation after retirement when they possess the time and means for it.

3. The relatively high financial cost of civil aviation
operation. The pilot's means/motivation to travel in the third
dimension must exceed his sense of frugality.

4. The perceived lack of benefit received for effort/cost/time
expended. If aviation fails to adequately fulfill the pilot's needs
and wants (which are highly subjective), s/he will drift toward other
activities which do.


With regard to the dropout rate of usenet participants, I suspect that
exposure to the onslaught of hostile personal attacks (flames) one
must endure during the argument of heated debate takes it toll among
those who choose not to suffer fools, or are unaccustomed to such
discourse. There is also the proposition of outgrowing usenet.

A study of what causes people to participate in usenet/flying would
probably reveal a lot of insight into why they leave.

[Jay Honeck]

> Gotta disagree with you there, Larry. I believe I get tremendous benefit
> from r.a.*, and not just from the things I learn about flying. The
> opportunity to converse with such a disparate group of characters is a
> great gift I could not receive any other way. In a way, I consider many
> of the people here friends, and that certainly makes usenet worthwhile.

I'll second Dan's observation. I've learned more about aviation on Usenet
than in all my years of hanging out at airports. And the chance to discuss
(debate?) issues of the day with such an intelligent crowd is simply
outstanding.

Better yet, I've met (in "real" life) many usenet participants, some at
Oshkosh and some through the hotel. All have been wonderful people, all
have presented various sides of the experience coin. All have been good.

Several have even gone on to become "real" friends -- while many have grown
to be close "cyber" friends.

All this, and the price of admission is certainly "right", too! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom S.]

"David Dyer-Bennet" > wrote in message
...
> Judah > writes:
>
> > "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
> > news:XZbyb.362668$Fm2.362602@attbi_s04:
> >
> > > Bottom line: This is a forum for highly literate people -- which is
> > > extraordinarily rare.
> >
> > Highly literate? Oh come now! Have you seen some of the posts we get on
> > here?!
> >
> > ;)
>
> Yes. Have you seen some of the memos that run around most offices?
> The people here are pretty literate by modern standards.
> --
Like the guy at Taco Bell HQ in Texas who was fired (or rather his boss
tried to fire him) because he used the word "pedantic" in a memo? She
confused the word for "pedophile".

And that was a "six-figure a year plus bonus" manager.

[Tom Fleischman]

In article <2003112920100843658%lfransson@comcastnet>, Larry Fransson
<snip>
>
> I only recently started reading and posting again because I'm beta testing a
> newsreader.

Speaking of which, you seem to have solved your formatting problems.

[Teacherjh]

>>
> It's filled with a bunch of maroons
> (and for the OS-challenged, macaroons),
> and utter imbiciles...

And with that, you would seem to have proven your point about spelling, eh?
<<

Yes, actually. "maroon" is the internet version of "moron". "Imbiciles" was a
bit subtler; I was trying to weed out the unqualified. Since you detected the
pea, you are unqualified to post. You are sentenced to five years of
television, or three months of airway intersection naming, after which we will
consider your re-application to Usenet.

How else can we keep standards down wher they belong? <g>

Jose



--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Gene Seibel]

Maybe they get a life. ;)
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



> I've noticed something interesting about the aviation newsgroups: posters
> tend to disappear. I don't mean the posts getting lost, I mean that certain
> people will post for a while and then just stop.
>
> The way I see it, these groups have 3 types of inhabitants: the prolific
> posters, the lurk mostly but post sometimes (who I feel I am a part), and
> then people who post for a while and then disappear.
>
> For example, a year or so ago, someone by the name of Tracey was asking
> about questions about the medical. It seemed that she was on some sort of
> medication that may have been a problem. She posted for a good 3 or 6
> months and then nothing.
>
> Another example: When I first started lurking this group, there are a
> gentleman who worked as a professor of aerospace. He kept yelling at us for
> discussing aviation accidents before the NTSB reports were completed. After
> a while, gone.
>
> I could go on and on reciting examples, but you know what I'm talking about.
>
> Do these people decide to get out of aviation? I know that nobody here
> knows for sure (unless you know the person some other way) so I guess this
> is more of a general wondering than anything else. (I would be really
> shocked if someone posted what happened to everyone how ever posted here but
> then stopped.)
>
> I guess what got me thinking about this was that I was wondering how many
> (what percentage) of people get into aviation only to leave it. I think it
> happens more than most think. (And, no, I'm not talking about the
> percentage who fly until they cannot pass the medical due to advanced age.
> I'm talking about the people who start flying and then, months or years
> later, quit.) If all these people who have stopped posting are any
> indication, then the number must be quite large.

[Larry Fransson]

On 2003-11-30 04:13:59 -0800, Bob Noel > said:

> and now your posts are appearing to be "better formatted" in terms
> of wrapping (btw)

I've been manually formatting them. They're still working on that problem!

[Bob Noel]

In article <2003113009012416807%lfransson@comcastnet>, Larry Fransson
> wrote:

> > and now your posts are appearing to be "better formatted" in terms
> > of wrapping (btw)
>
> I've been manually formatting them. They're still working on that
> problem!

<chuckle> oh well.

--
Bob Noel

[David Johnson]

I expect that there are nearly as many answers to the questions you
pose as there are posters (or pilots). For myself, I am a lurker,
with frequent absences. Many times I am busy with other things or
unable to get online for any of a number of reasons. Even when I
do read the posts there are periods when nothing of sufficient
interest to motivate a response appears.

As for leaving aviation, I have known a number of people who started
pilot training, only to drop out before achieving a license. I have
known others who were licensed and even owners who bowed out. Some
have cited economic reasons, whereas at least one acquired a spouse
who wouldn't fly with him. I suppose it's a matter of commitment.
Those who truly want it find a way to satisfy their desires regardless
of the obstacles.

[Koopas Ly]

> I'll second Dan's observation. I've learned more about aviation on Usenet
> than in all my years of hanging out at airports. And the chance to discuss
> (debate?) issues of the day with such an intelligent crowd is simply
> outstanding.
>

I'll third Jay's observation. These boards have been and continue to
be a tremendous help. In fact, I take this opportunity to thank
everybody who's provided input to my brilliantly soporific inquiries
since 2001.

I don't hang out at the airport any longer than I have too since I
work there. Besides, it's easier to flame and be flamed without
immediate physical repercussions on Usenet.

Alex

[Larry Dighera]

On 1 Dec 2003 04:59:06 -0800, (Koopas Ly)
wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>These boards have been and continue to
>be a tremendous help. In fact, I take this opportunity to thank
>everybody who's provided input to my brilliantly soporific inquiries
>since 2001.

I find it interesting that you have frequented usenet for two years
and still failed to learn that it contains no bulletin BOARDS. The
discussion groups are formally referred to as 'newsgroups:'
http://bianca.ctrl-c.liu.se/~ingvar/jargon/b.html#bboard
http://bianca.ctrl-c.liu.se/~ingvar/jargon/n.html#newsgroup

[Teacherjh]

>>
it contains no bulletin BOARDS. The
discussion groups are formally referred to as 'newsgroups:'
<<

But if you're not in a tux, is it ok to call them boards?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Larry Dighera]

On 01 Dec 2003 15:29:00 GMT, (Teacherjh)
wrote in Message-Id: >:

>But if you're not in a tux, is it ok to call them boards?

It's okay to call them anything you choose; it just displays your
ignorance publicly. One would think an airman would strive to use the
correct terms given the fact that aviation is rife with such
specifics.

My objection to referring to usenet newsgroups as bulletin boards is
that, that epithet conveys a sense of informal posting not intended
when usenet was conceived. Anyone who fails to appreciate the
difference does the usenet community a disservice IMNSHO.

Heres a quote for you:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part1/
(Note that the correct term is "newsgroups"; they are not called
areas, bases, boards, bboards, conferences, round tables, SIGs,
echoes, rooms or usergroups! Nor, as noted above, are they part
of the Internet, though they may reach your site over it.
Furthermore, the people who run the news systems are called news
administrators, not sysops. If you want to be understood, be
accurate.)

You can educate yourself about usenet here:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part1/


But were just trolling....

[Teacherjh]

I agree the distinction is important (my pet peeve is the misuse of the word
"crossposting", as both crossposting and doubleposting have their uses, but
doing one instead of the other is usually bad). However I am amused by the
juxtaposition of "informal" and "not intended" and "usenet"

>>
conveys a sense of informal posting not intended
when usenet was conceived.
<<

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[John Harlow]

> YES. No use being pedantic.

Whoa, whoa WHOA! This is a FAMILY board! If you insist on this deviant
sex talk please take it somewhere else!

[Peter Duniho]

"John Harlow" > wrote in message
...
>
> > YES. No use being pedantic.
>
> Whoa, whoa WHOA! This is a FAMILY board! If you insist on this deviant
> sex talk please take it somewhere else!

What's your problem? It's not like he said "necrotic" or anything. Now
*that* would have been awful.

[Rob Perkins]

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:09:14 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote:

>"John Harlow" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> > YES. No use being pedantic.
>>
>> Whoa, whoa WHOA! This is a FAMILY board! If you insist on this deviant
>> sex talk please take it somewhere else!
>
>What's your problem? It's not like he said "necrotic" or anything. Now
>*that* would have been awful.

Uh... right.

Rob

[G.R. Patterson III]

Peter Duniho wrote:
>
> "John Harlow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > > YES. No use being pedantic.
> >
> > Whoa, whoa WHOA! This is a FAMILY board! If you insist on this deviant
> > sex talk please take it somewhere else!
>
> What's your problem? It's not like he said "necrotic" or anything.

Or "niggardly".

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[H.J.]

They posters who stopped either:
a) graduated from high school
b) ran out of training money
c) crashed either their hard drive or their plane.


"James Blakely" > wrote in
message ...
> I've noticed something interesting about the aviation newsgroups: posters
> tend to disappear. I don't mean the posts getting lost, I mean that
certain
> people will post for a while and then just stop.
>
> The way I see it, these groups have 3 types of inhabitants: the prolific
> posters, the lurk mostly but post sometimes (who I feel I am a part), and
> then people who post for a while and then disappear.
>
> For example, a year or so ago, someone by the name of Tracey was asking
> about questions about the medical. It seemed that she was on some sort of
> medication that may have been a problem. She posted for a good 3 or 6
> months and then nothing.
>
> Another example: When I first started lurking this group, there are a
> gentleman who worked as a professor of aerospace. He kept yelling at us
for
> discussing aviation accidents before the NTSB reports were completed.
After
> a while, gone.
>
> I could go on and on reciting examples, but you know what I'm talking
about.
>
> Do these people decide to get out of aviation? I know that nobody here
> knows for sure (unless you know the person some other way) so I guess this
> is more of a general wondering than anything else. (I would be really
> shocked if someone posted what happened to everyone how ever posted here
but
> then stopped.)
>
> I guess what got me thinking about this was that I was wondering how many
> (what percentage) of people get into aviation only to leave it. I think
it
> happens more than most think. (And, no, I'm not talking about the
> percentage who fly until they cannot pass the medical due to advanced age.
> I'm talking about the people who start flying and then, months or years
> later, quit.) If all these people who have stopped posting are any
> indication, then the number must be quite large.
>
>

[Koopas Ly]

> I find it interesting that you have frequented usenet for two years
> and still failed to learn that it contains no bulletin BOARDS. The
> discussion groups are formally referred to as 'newsgroups:'
> http://bianca.ctrl-c.liu.se/~ingvar/jargon/b.html#bboard
> http://bianca.ctrl-c.liu.se/~ingvar/jargon/n.html#newsgroup

Hi Larry,

Thanks for pointing the nuance. Like I said, I learn a great deal
here. You were trying to help me, right?

Happy Holidays,
Alex

[H.J.]

> Bottom line: This is a forum for highly literate people -- which is
> extraordinarily rare.

....or Cub Scouts posing as big boys.

[H.J.]

> I find it interesting that you have frequented usenet for two years
> and still failed to learn that it contains no bulletin BOARDS. The
> discussion groups are formally referred to as 'newsgroups:'

Ah yes, exactly the kind of flaming that drives people off.

[John Galban]

(Teacherjh) wrote in message >...
> >>
> > It's filled with a bunch of maroons
> > (and for the OS-challenged, macaroons),
> > and utter imbiciles...
>
> And with that, you would seem to have proven your point about spelling, eh?
> <<
>
> Yes, actually. "maroon" is the internet version of "moron".

Actually, "maroon" is the Bugs Bunny version of "moron" and predates
the internet by a good many years :-)

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[H.J.]

> It's okay to call them anything you choose; it just displays your
> ignorance publicly. One would think an airman would strive to use the
> correct terms given the fact that aviation is rife with such
> specifics.

Careful, There's a blurry line between Accuracy and TightAss-ism.

[John Galban]

"James Blakely" > wrote in message >...

>
> Do these people decide to get out of aviation? I know that nobody here
> knows for sure (unless you know the person some other way) so I guess this
> is more of a general wondering than anything else. (I would be really
> shocked if someone posted what happened to everyone how ever posted here but
> then stopped.)
>

Oddly enough, my experience was the opposite. When I'm spending 10
hrs. a day in front of a computer, it's easy to keep the newsgroups in
the background and participate during my "hurry up and wait" periods.
A few yrs. back, I decided to take a few years off from work and
spend the majority of my time committing aviation. During that time I
hardly ever read or posted to the newsgroups (but I did attend the
r.a* fly-in). I was much too busy flying.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Montblack]

("H.J." wrote)
> > Bottom line: This is a forum for highly literate people -- which is
> > extraordinarily rare.

> ...or Cub Scouts posing as big boys.


....or dogs posing as Cub Scouts.

--
Montblack
http://lumma.de/mt/archives/bart.gif

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:56:01 +0000, Rob Perkins wrote:

> YES. No use being pedantic. The Usenet model comes from the BBS model.
>
> Rob, who has been doing BBS and Usenet for 15 years now

No it didn't come from the BBS model. What you must understand is the
UUCP protocol and how it was implemented to transport the files,
completely different from the first BBS. UUCP was being used to send
files back and forth and students decided to do something useful with
them, thus Usenet eventually was birthed. Some pertinent history of both
follows with the nod that a BBS was first and Usenet second, but Usenet
was based on something entirely different. I know, I run a Usenet system
back in the early 80's using UUCP to transfer the newsgroups. As a
side note, I've noticed spammers using the Fidonet gateway addresses I also
setup for the BBS systems to use Usenet newsgroups. I basically converted
newsgroups to a BBS format, and back again on the fly. Did that for years
until ISP's started being formed after the Internet was commercialized,
worst thing that ever happened if you ask me. PS, the first Usenet
newsgroups were tedious to read and respond to postings, but it got better.

Usenet came into being in late 1979, shortly after the release of V7
Unix with UUCP. Two Duke University grad students in North Carolina,
Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis, thought of hooking computers together to
exchange information with the Unix community. Steve Bellovin, a grad
student at the University of North Carolina, put together the first
version of the news software using shell scripts and installed it on
the first two sites: "unc" and "duke."

The history of the computer based Bulletin Board System can be traced
back to Chicago, IL in 1978 to Ward Christensen, who wrote the first
BBS system software.

[Andrew Sarangan]

It is for the same reason that I stopped posting for a long time. Some
posters get emotional, arrogant and even abusive when they encouter an
opinion different from theirs. Over the past 8 years or so, I have
seen many long-time contributors driven away by people who were
unappreciative of the free advice they were getting here.



"Harry Gordon" > wrote in message >...
> I would dare say that there are as many reasons for dropping out of a
> newsgroup as there are people who do so. I certainly can't speak for them,
> but as for myself...when I was an early student, I would make routine
> postings about my flying progress and generally got really great feedback.
> However, one day, I posted something, don't remember if it was a question or
> made a statement or whatever, but someone replied and raked me over the
> coals. Well, I said to myself, if that is what I am to expect, I would
> rather spend my time in the books. It took a long time for me to work up the
> ability to start posting again. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, it
> wasn't until I finally passed my checkride that I began posting again with
> regularity; and even now, do so with great caution. But that is why I
> dropped out for so long. For other newsgroups that I dropped out of was
> because the subjects no longer applied to me for whatever reason.
>
> Harry
> PP-ASEL

[Andrew Sarangan]

While the signal to noise ratio in these newsgroups is indeed quite
low, if you know how to filter through the posts quickly, it can be a
highly valuable experience. For example, where else would you find an
indepth discussion on "logging vs acting PIC"? Does a CFI need a
second class medical for giving instruction? Can you log PIC time in
IMC if you are not IFR rated? Is it Bernoulli's theory or Newton's
theory that explains flight? What makes an airplane turn - horizontal
component of lift or weathervaning? I can go on and on... If you ask
the average pilot, they will most likely give you the wrong answer to
these questions. Why, even the FSDO has given me wrong answers. I
doubt anyone who reads this NG would not know the correct answers.




Larry Fransson > wrote in message news:<2003112920100843658%lfransson@comcastnet>...
> On 2003-11-29 14:24:11 -0800, "James Blakely" > said:
>
> > For example, a year or so ago, someone by the name of Tracey was asking
> > about questions about the medical. It seemed that she was on some sort of
> > medication that may have been a problem. She posted for a good 3 or 6
> > months and then nothing.
>
> She quit flying for a couple of reasons. Last she posted here, she was thinking
> about starting again. Nothing since, though.
>
> Speaking for myself, I quit reading and posting to newsgroups a couple of months
> ago. It just took too much time out of my day with no real benefit that I could find.
> That, and I kept getting drawn into OT threads, and I hate when that happens.
> Again, too much time, no real benefit.
>
> I only recently started reading and posting again because I'm beta testing a
> newsreader. Once the beta testing is done, I'll disappear again.

[Larry Fransson]

On 2003-12-01 16:55:02 -0800, (Andrew Sarangan) said:

> For example, where else would you find an
> indepth discussion on "logging vs acting PIC"? Does a CFI need a
> second class medical for giving instruction? Can you log PIC time in
> IMC if you are not IFR rated? Is it Bernoulli's theory or Newton's
> theory that explains flight? What makes an airplane turn - horizontal
> component of lift or weathervaning? I can go on and on...

And the great thing is, if you miss the extremely long discussion that ensues
when one of these questions is raised, all you have to do is wait a couple of
months until it comes up again!

BTW, you left out the really big one: "Are Cessnas prohibited from performing
slips with flaps?" I'm sure you would have come to it eventually if you had
gone on and on. Come to think of it, I think we're about due for one of those.
It has been a few months since the last one. ;-)

[Larry Dighera]

On 01 Dec 2003 16:48:58 GMT, (Teacherjh)
wrote in Message-Id: >:

>However I am amused by the
>juxtaposition of "informal" and "not intended" and "usenet"
>
>>>
>conveys a sense of informal posting not intended
>when usenet was conceived.
><<

While the inundation of usenet by naive users during the surging tide
of AOL subscribers of the mid '90s did contribute to usenet's
diversity, their naivete has reduced usenet's signal to noise ratio
significantly.

IIRC, usenet was originally provided to government contractors for the
dissemination of scientific/contract-related/workgroup-production
information purposes. When the universities provided student access
to usenet, it became a wall for graffiti in addition to becoming a
rich source of information on many diverse subjects. With the advent
of public usenet access, it has become the world's most egalitarian
communications medium; (nearly) all users are afforded the same exact
options: to author a posting, or not. Beyond a requirement for
literacy and a terminal, the entire world's public is granted a voice.

I believe we should choose to express ourselves in a manner and on
subjects worthy of worldwide, publicly archived distribution. But
that's just me....

[Teacherjh]

>>
"Are Cessnas prohibited from performing
slips with flaps?"
<<

Are Cessna pilots prohibited from wearing slips with flaps?

<g,d,rlh> Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Wizard of Draws]

Teacherjh wrote:
>
> >>
> "Are Cessnas prohibited from performing
> slips with flaps?"
> <<
>
> Are Cessna pilots prohibited from wearing slips with flaps?
>
> <g,d,rlh> Jose
>

On the contrary, it is strongly encouraged...
http://www.wizardofdraws.com/store/shirts.html
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

"Cartoons with a Touch of Magic"
http://www.wizardofdraws.com
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

[Kyler Laird]

(Andrew Sarangan) writes:

>It is for the same reason that I stopped posting for a long time. Some
>posters get emotional, arrogant and even abusive when they encouter an
>opinion different from theirs. Over the past 8 years or so, I have
>seen many long-time contributors driven away by people who were
>unappreciative of the free advice they were getting here.

I try to stay focused on my target audience when I post and when I read
responses. My target is not the yahoo who has vulgarity matched only by
his stupidity. I'm after the lurker who is seeking some information -
maybe not even now, but in a couple of years during a Google search.
That's why it doesn't matter what the idiots say in a thread as long
as the other side is presented so that readers have sufficient info
available to them to make up their own minds. (I'm amused by people
who want the "last word" or play the "*plonk*" card as if I care.)

Every so often I hear from one of those people who finds that info
useful. Each "thank you" message makes up for a lot of abuse.

OTOH, I really hate it when people contribute and *expect* appreciation.
Post because you want to do something good for the community. (I do it
as payback for all of the great information I've received.) Don't do it
to get stroked and I suspect you'll be happier.

--kyler

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Rob Perkins > writes:

> On 01 Dec 2003 15:29:00 GMT, (Teacherjh)
> wrote:
>
> >>>
> >it contains no bulletin BOARDS. The
> >discussion groups are formally referred to as 'newsgroups:'
> ><<
> >
> >But if you're not in a tux, is it ok to call them boards?
>
> YES. No use being pedantic. The Usenet model comes from the BBS model.

Don't think so; I think Usenet predates BBSs being common enough to
have any single model.

Hmmm; usenet dates to 1979, and there certainly *were* some BBSs then.

What the originators *thought* they were doing was coming up with the
poor man's Arpanet. And they way it works is nothing like the way any
BBS system works (until Fidonet, but that was considerably later and
was explicitly invented as a poor man's Usenet, which I find greatly
amusing).

> Rob, who has been doing BBS and Usenet for 15 years now

My first usenet post must be sometime in the 80s, through the decwrl
gateway. I had earlier messages to Arpanet mailing lists. And then I
ran a Fidonet BBS for about 10 years (85-95). Online timewasting has
been much of my life :-).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <noguns-nomoney.com> <www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <dragaera.info/>

[Model Flyer]

"John Harlow" > wrote in message
...
>
> > YES. No use being pedantic.
>
> Whoa, whoa WHOA! This is a FAMILY board! If you insist on this
deviant
> sex talk please take it somewhere else!
>

There is nothing deviant about the word Pedantic, it's simply taking
your time or being slow and methodical in ones approach, nothing to
do with unlawfull carnal knowledge of children.
--
---
Cheers,
Jonathan Lowe.
/
don't bother me with insignificiant nonsence such as spelling,
I don't care if it spelt properly
/
Sometimes I fly and sometimes I just dream about it.
:-)

>

[Dave Butler]

Model Flyer wrote:
> "John Harlow" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>YES. No use being pedantic.
>>
>>Whoa, whoa WHOA! This is a FAMILY board! If you insist on this
>
> deviant
>
>>sex talk please take it somewhere else!
>>
>
>
> There is nothing deviant about the word Pedantic, it's simply taking
> your time or being slow and methodical in ones approach, nothing to
> do with unlawfull carnal knowledge of children.

Heh. I think he knows that. It was a humorous reference to an earlier posting.
Well, at least I'm not the only humor-impaired reader here (I missed a joke
earlier this week, about a fuel tank contaminated with oxygen). OTOH, neither
humorous posting included a smiley ;-) so that's going to be my excuse.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

[Rob Perkins]

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:32:41 -0600, "Matthew P. Cummings"
> wrote:

>On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:56:01 +0000, Rob Perkins wrote:
>
>> YES. No use being pedantic. The Usenet model comes from the BBS model.
>>
>> Rob, who has been doing BBS and Usenet for 15 years now
>
>No it didn't come from the BBS model. What you must understand is the
>UUCP protocol and how it was implemented to transport the files,
>completely different from the first BBS.

You're talking about transport layers. I'm talking about user
interfaces.

Rob

[John Harlow]

> Model Flyer wrote:
> > "John Harlow" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>>YES. No use being pedantic.
> >>
> >>Whoa, whoa WHOA! This is a FAMILY board! If you insist on this
> >
> > deviant
> >
> >>sex talk please take it somewhere else!
> >>
> >
> >
> > There is nothing deviant about the word Pedantic, it's simply taking
> > your time or being slow and methodical in ones approach, nothing to
> > do with unlawfull carnal knowledge of children.
>
> Heh. I think he knows that. It was a humorous reference to an earlier
posting.
> Well, at least I'm not the only humor-impaired reader here (I missed a
joke
> earlier this week, about a fuel tank contaminated with oxygen). OTOH,
neither
> humorous posting included a smiley ;-) so that's going to be my excuse.

No one else commented on the fact I called this a "board" either! ;-)

[Paul Sengupta]

Well, I stopped posting for the summer when a) I was very busy
in work and b) the weather was nice to go flying! :-)

Paul

"Teacherjh" > wrote in message
...
> But it does require interest, and maybe they are just not interested.
It's
> like hangar flying. Nice, but I'd rather do the real thing.

[Paul Sengupta]

I remember the furore and noise increase as "AOLers" started
invading usenet. But the "AOLers" looked like a good common
sense bunch of literate people when the WebTV crowd started
joining. Most of what they posted was barely recognisable as
English.

Paul

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> While the inundation of usenet by naive users during the surging tide
> of AOL subscribers of the mid '90s did contribute to usenet's
> diversity, their naivete has reduced usenet's signal to noise ratio
> significantly.
>
> IIRC, usenet was originally provided to government contractors for the
> dissemination of scientific/contract-related/workgroup-production
> information purposes. When the universities provided student access
> to usenet, it became a wall for graffiti in addition to becoming a
> rich source of information on many diverse subjects. With the advent
> of public usenet access, it has become the world's most egalitarian
> communications medium; (nearly) all users are afforded the same exact
> options: to author a posting, or not. Beyond a requirement for
> literacy and a terminal, the entire world's public is granted a voice.

[Jay Honeck]

> > > Bottom line: This is a forum for highly literate people -- which is
> > > extraordinarily rare.
>
> > ...or Cub Scouts posing as big boys.
>
>
> ...or dogs posing as Cub Scouts.

Or...what the HECK are we talking about?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)

> > > > Bottom line: This is a forum for highly literate people -- which is
> > > > extraordinarily rare.

> > > ...or Cub Scouts posing as big boys.

> > ...or dogs posing as Cub Scouts.

> Or...what the HECK are we talking about?


A: We get to call this one irony, right? You know, since this was Jay's
quote earlier in the thread .... "Bottom line: This is a forum for highly
literate people -- which is extraordinarily rare."

B: Hey guys, what the HECK you talking about? <g>

C: http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.html :-)

--
Montblack
http://lumma.de/mt/archives/bart.gif

[Mark Kolber]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:50:56 GMT, Greg Esres >
wrote:

>I don't think it is any indication. There are far more reasons to
>stop posting to newsgroups than losing interest in aviation.

Indeed. After all, how many "slips with flaps" and "if I let my
chimpanzee manipulate the controls, can I still log PIC" discussions
can some people stand?

Mark Kolber
APA/Denver, Colorado
www.midlifeflight.com
======================
email? Remove ".no.spam"

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> My first usenet post must be sometime in the 80s, through the decwrl
> gateway. I had earlier messages to Arpanet mailing lists. And then I
> ran a Fidonet BBS for about 10 years (85-95). Online timewasting has
> been much of my life :-).

How much fun I had running 2:252/204. Only for a couple of years
(1990/1991) until I went to university and typed 'trn' for the first
time. Of course by the time I went to uni, the normal transport for
Usenet was TCP/IP like it is today (although we had an odd X.25 based
system called JANET, which didn't like TCP/IP because of 'not invented
here' syndrome).

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, Paul Sengupta wrote:
> I remember the furore and noise increase as "AOLers" started
> invading usenet. But the "AOLers" looked like a good common
> sense bunch of literate people when the WebTV crowd started
> joining. Most of what they posted was barely recognisable as
> English.

The AOLers joining is commonly referred to "The September That Never
Ended". There was a period where Usenet was becoming unbearable (with a
lot of spam). It seem that (fortunately) the spammers have quit Usenet,
and the NGs I participate in all have a decent S/N ratio.


--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Dylan Smith > writes:

> In article >, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> > My first usenet post must be sometime in the 80s, through the decwrl
> > gateway. I had earlier messages to Arpanet mailing lists. And then I
> > ran a Fidonet BBS for about 10 years (85-95). Online timewasting has
> > been much of my life :-).
>
> How much fun I had running 2:252/204. Only for a couple of years
> (1990/1991) until I went to university and typed 'trn' for the first
> time. Of course by the time I went to uni, the normal transport for
> Usenet was TCP/IP like it is today (although we had an odd X.25 based
> system called JANET, which didn't like TCP/IP because of 'not invented
> here' syndrome).

I ran 1:282/341, and was moderator for the SF and WRITING echoes for
quite a while.

I imported a number of usenet groups and made them available to users;
and of course to myself and my wife.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <noguns-nomoney.com> <www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <dragaera.info/>