AR 4201 low volume on receiving side

[Alexander Swagemakers[_2_]]

I have purchased a used Becker AR 4201 and installed it in my glider. Reception is fine. On transmission the signal volume is very low on the receiving side. Even though the voice is clear, it is hardly understandable because of the low volume. I tried making some changes to the configuration to no avail (especially settings concerning the microphone).

Any ideas on what the problem might be? Has anybody experienced similar behavior before?

[Bill D]

On Jun 20, 9:08*am, Alexander Swagemakers >
wrote:
> I have purchased a used Becker AR 4201 and installed it in my glider. Reception is fine. On transmission the signal volume is very low on the receiving side. Even though the voice is clear, it is hardly understandable because of the low volume. I tried making some changes to the configuration to no avail (especially settings concerning the microphone).
>
> Any ideas on what the problem might be? Has anybody experienced similar behavior before?

I'm not a radio engineer so they can jump in with a better explanation
but here's my take.

The radios we use are designed for airplanes. In a noisy airplane,
pilots will shout so mike sensitivity is set low so as not to over-
modulate the transmitter. Read the manual carefully and you will find
an adjustment for mike gain - probably behind tape or a placard. Try
some test transmissions speaking in a normal voice with an assistant
listening to a receiver at least a half mile away for over-modulation
as you increase the gain then back off a half turn.

[Tim Mara]

It sounds to me like you have either connected your microphone to the wrong
pins or have an improper microphone.
The Becker radio accepts either Dynamic (amplified) microphones PIN 5 (and
also Mic Ground Pin 6) or accepts amplified dynamic, electret or carbon
microphones (wiring to STANDARD MIC) Pin 18 (and also Mic Ground Pin 6).
If you have a standard mic connected to the dynamic imput the voice
transmitted with be very low (unintelligible)
If you have a dynamic microphone connected to the standard mic input your
voice transmitted with also be very low (unintelligible)
the other mistake can be by using a microphone that is just the wrong type,
typically telephone, PC and other low cost microphones cannot be made to
work with most airband radios. diagram for wiring is on my website
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/useful.htm also, please see page 2-6 of the
manual for installation wiring guidelines.
Best regards
Tim Mara

"Alexander Swagemakers" > wrote in message
...
I have purchased a used Becker AR 4201 and installed it in my glider.
Reception is fine. On transmission the signal volume is very low on the
receiving side. Even though the voice is clear, it is hardly understandable
because of the low volume. I tried making some changes to the configuration
to no avail (especially settings concerning the microphone).

Any ideas on what the problem might be? Has anybody experienced similar
behavior before?

[T[_2_]]

On Jun 20, 8:22*am, Bill D > wrote:
> On Jun 20, 9:08*am, Alexander Swagemakers >
> wrote:
>
> > I have purchased a used Becker AR 4201 and installed it in my glider. Reception is fine. On transmission the signal volume is very low on the receiving side. Even though the voice is clear, it is hardly understandable because of the low volume. I tried making some changes to the configuration to no avail (especially settings concerning the microphone).
>
> > Any ideas on what the problem might be? Has anybody experienced similar behavior before?
>
> I'm not a radio engineer so they can jump in with a better explanation
> but here's my take.
>
> The radios we use are designed for airplanes. *In a noisy airplane,
> pilots will shout so mike sensitivity is set low so as not to over-
> modulate the transmitter. *Read the manual carefully and you will find
> an adjustment for mike gain - probably behind tape or a placard. *Try
> some test transmissions speaking in a normal voice with an assistant
> listening to a receiver at least a half mile away for over-modulation
> as you increase the gain then back off a half turn.

I have been flying powered airplanes for 38 years and have never had
to SHOUT into a microphone to be heard.
T

[Bill D]

On Jun 20, 6:46*pm, T > wrote:
> On Jun 20, 8:22*am, Bill D > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 20, 9:08*am, Alexander Swagemakers >
> > wrote:
>
> > > I have purchased a used Becker AR 4201 and installed it in my glider. Reception is fine. On transmission the signal volume is very low on the receiving side. Even though the voice is clear, it is hardly understandable because of the low volume. I tried making some changes to the configuration to no avail (especially settings concerning the microphone).
>
> > > Any ideas on what the problem might be? Has anybody experienced similar behavior before?
>
> > I'm not a radio engineer so they can jump in with a better explanation
> > but here's my take.
>
> > The radios we use are designed for airplanes. *In a noisy airplane,
> > pilots will shout so mike sensitivity is set low so as not to over-
> > modulate the transmitter. *Read the manual carefully and you will find
> > an adjustment for mike gain - probably behind tape or a placard. *Try
> > some test transmissions speaking in a normal voice with an assistant
> > listening to a receiver at least a half mile away for over-modulation
> > as you increase the gain then back off a half turn.
>
> I have been flying powered airplanes for 38 years and have never had
> to SHOUT into a microphone to be heard.
> T

You raise your voice naturally because you are in a noisy
environment. AFAIK, all 'airplanes' are powered.

[Alexander Swagemakers[_2_]]

Thanks for the fast response. Chances are good that this is the problem. The current wiring is for non dynamic microphone and my guess is that the normal goose neck microphone installed is probably dynamic. I will change the wiring and hope for improvement;-)

Am Mittwoch, 20. Juni 2012 18:18:23 UTC+2 schrieb Tim Mara:
> It sounds to me like you have either connected your microphone to the wrong
> pins or have an improper microphone.
> The Becker radio accepts either Dynamic (amplified) microphones PIN 5 (and
> also Mic Ground Pin 6) or accepts amplified dynamic, electret or carbon
> microphones (wiring to STANDARD MIC) Pin 18 (and also Mic Ground Pin 6).
> If you have a standard mic connected to the dynamic imput the voice
> transmitted with be very low (unintelligible)
> If you have a dynamic microphone connected to the standard mic input your
> voice transmitted with also be very low (unintelligible)
> the other mistake can be by using a microphone that is just the wrong type,
> typically telephone, PC and other low cost microphones cannot be made to
> work with most airband radios. diagram for wiring is on my website
> http://www.wingsandwheels.com/useful.htm also, please see page 2-6 of the
> manual for installation wiring guidelines.
> Best regards
> Tim Mara
>
> "Alexander Swagemakers" > wrote in message
> ...
> I have purchased a used Becker AR 4201 and installed it in my glider.
> Reception is fine. On transmission the signal volume is very low on the
> receiving side. Even though the voice is clear, it is hardly understandable
> because of the low volume. I tried making some changes to the configuration
> to no avail (especially settings concerning the microphone).
>
> Any ideas on what the problem might be? Has anybody experienced similar
> behavior before?

[T[_2_]]

On Jun 20, 6:20*pm, Bill D > wrote:
> On Jun 20, 6:46*pm, T > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 20, 8:22*am, Bill D > wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 20, 9:08*am, Alexander Swagemakers >
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > I have purchased a used Becker AR 4201 and installed it in my glider. Reception is fine. On transmission the signal volume is very low on the receiving side. Even though the voice is clear, it is hardly understandable because of the low volume. I tried making some changes to the configuration to no avail (especially settings concerning the microphone).
>
> > > > Any ideas on what the problem might be? Has anybody experienced similar behavior before?
>
> > > I'm not a radio engineer so they can jump in with a better explanation
> > > but here's my take.
>
> > > The radios we use are designed for airplanes. *In a noisy airplane,
> > > pilots will shout so mike sensitivity is set low so as not to over-
> > > modulate the transmitter. *Read the manual carefully and you will find
> > > an adjustment for mike gain - probably behind tape or a placard. *Try
> > > some test transmissions speaking in a normal voice with an assistant
> > > listening to a receiver at least a half mile away for over-modulation
> > > as you increase the gain then back off a half turn.
>
> > I have been flying powered airplanes for 38 years and have never had
> > to SHOUT into a microphone to be heard.
> > T
>
> You raise your voice naturally because you are in a noisy
> environment. *AFAIK, all 'airplanes' are powered.

Really? With proper hearing protection, ear plugs and flying helmets,
my ears and mouth do not know I'm in a noisy environment. With 15+ hr
missions, I've never come back with a soar throat from raising my
voice.

T

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 6/21/2012 4:34 PM, T wrote:
> On Jun 20, 6:20 pm, Bill D > wrote:
>> On Jun 20, 6:46 pm, T > wrote:
>>
>> You raise your voice naturally because you are in a noisy
>> environment. AFAIK, all 'airplanes' are powered.
>
> Really? With proper hearing protection, ear plugs and flying helmets,
> my ears and mouth do not know I'm in a noisy environment. With 15+ hr
> missions, I've never come back with a soar throat from raising my
> voice.

And the sidetone is adjusted so you hear your voice in the headphones at
a decent level, which keeps you from shouting.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Bill D]

On Jun 21, 9:13*pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
> On 6/21/2012 4:34 PM, T wrote:
>
> > On Jun 20, 6:20 pm, Bill D > wrote:
> >> On Jun 20, 6:46 pm, T > wrote:
>
> >> You raise your voice naturally because you are in a noisy
> >> environment. *AFAIK, all 'airplanes' are powered.
>
> > Really? With proper hearing protection, ear plugs and flying helmets,
> > my ears and mouth do not know I'm in a noisy environment. With 15+ hr
> > missions, I've never come back with a soar throat from raising my
> > voice.
>
> And the sidetone is adjusted so you hear your voice in the headphones at
> a decent level, which keeps you from shouting.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
> email me)

OK, just put a 'scope on it and check the modulation level. I'll bet
that it is way to low for normal voice in a glider but about right for
an airplane.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 6/21/2012 8:58 PM, Bill D wrote:
> On Jun 21, 9:13 pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
>> On 6/21/2012 4:34 PM, T wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 20, 6:20 pm, Bill D > wrote:
>>>> On Jun 20, 6:46 pm, T > wrote:
>>
>>>> You raise your voice naturally because you are in a noisy
>>>> environment. AFAIK, all 'airplanes' are powered.
>>
>>> Really? With proper hearing protection, ear plugs and flying helmets,
>>> my ears and mouth do not know I'm in a noisy environment. With 15+ hr
>>> missions, I've never come back with a soar throat from raising my
>>> voice.
>>
>> And the sidetone is adjusted so you hear your voice in the headphones at
>> a decent level, which keeps you from shouting.
>>
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
>> email me)
>
> OK, just put a 'scope on it and check the modulation level. I'll bet
> that it is way to low for normal voice in a glider but about right for
> an airplane.

The airplane pilots I hear don't sound like they are shouting, but are
just using a normal speaking voice. Even low cost headsets have
noise-canceling mikes and good sound isolation in the ear cups, so I
would not expect pilots using them to have to speak more loudly than a
glider pilot.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Wheaton]

On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 9:08:11 AM UTC-6, Alexander Swagemakers wrote:
> I have purchased a used Becker AR 4201 and installed it in my glider. Reception is fine. On transmission the signal volume is very low on the receiving side. Even though the voice is clear, it is hardly understandable because of the low volume. I tried making some changes to the configuration to no avail (especially settings concerning the microphone).
>
> Any ideas on what the problem might be? Has anybody experienced similar behavior before?

I had the identical problem two years ago. Sent it to Becker repair in Florida and they replaced a board. Now it works fine. $300+ Joe