Looking for Libelle information.

[914Driver]

Hello all,

New guy here. I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like more information on these ships. I heard there were only nine manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. Because the nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm curious how others have dealt with this.

If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love to hear from you.


Thanks, Dan

[sisu1a]

>air into the cabin is slight, I'm curious how others have dealt with this.

....guess it's only partly Shumanzed?

http://www.betsybyars.com/guy/soaring_symposia/72-mod3.jpg -rudder
vent

http://www.betsybyars.com/guy/soaring_symposia/72-mod4.jpg -NACA
inlet

http://www.betsybyars.com/guy/soaring_symposia/72-modif.html -main
article

-Paul

ps. the tail is not an ideal spot to vent from on most ships, and a
terrible spot on others ;)

[Sarah[_2_]]

Check in with the "type club" over here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/libellesailplanes/

I bet there are people who can answer any questions there.



On Jun 25, 5:43*pm, 914Driver >
wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> New guy here. *I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like
> more information on these ships. *I heard there were only nine
> manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. *Because the
> nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm
> curious how others have dealt with this.
>
> If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love
> to hear from you.
>
> Thanks, Dan
>
> --
> 914Driver

[[email protected]]

On Monday, June 25, 2012 6:43:58 PM UTC-4, 914Driver wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> New guy here. I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like
> more information on these ships. I heard there were only nine
> manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. Because the
> nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm
> curious how others have dealt with this.
>
> If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love
> to hear from you.
>
>
> Thanks, Dan
>
>
>
>
> --
> 914Driver

To clarify, are you looking to increase ventilation in the cockpit or decrease any existing airleaks?

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Jun 25, 5:43*pm, 914Driver >
wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> New guy here. *I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like
> more information on these ships. *I heard there were only nine
> manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. *Because the
> nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm
> curious how others have dealt with this.
>
> If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love
> to hear from you.
>
> Thanks, Dan
>
> --
> 914Driver

Hi Dan,

Well, there is really only one Schuemannized Libelle. And it belongs
to the National Soaring Museum. There are others that have had some
of the mods, or similar modifications, done to them. Guessing you got
N301J? Entirely different canopy setup on that one, so I am not sure
how you will get more air in the cockpit. Wil modified his to bring
air in through the wheel well. New doors, re-contourned belly with
the doors forming the outer part of the scoop. I understand the
ventilation in it was not as good until you got off tow and retracted
the gear. Then, it was more than adequate. Suggestion would be to
get a sliding side window with pop out air scoop fitted. Either to
the aft, hinged portion, or maybe even the forward, fixed portion.
You could always install the tracks so the window slides forward to
open if you install it on the fixed portion.

Have fun with that bird. I almost bought it but decided I would stick
with the highly modified Libelle I already have.

Steve Leonard
N366W

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

On Monday, June 25, 2012 3:43:58 PM UTC-7, 914Driver wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> New guy here. I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like
> more information on these ships. I heard there were only nine
> manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. Because the
> nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm
> curious how others have dealt with this.
>
> If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love
> to hear from you.
>
>
> Thanks, Dan
>
>
>
>
> --
> 914Driver

Dan,
If you bought N301J, I have carnal knowledge of her!
JJ

[Darryl Ramm]

On Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:51:57 PM UTC-7, JJ Sinclair wrote:
> On Monday, June 25, 2012 3:43:58 PM UTC-7, 914Driver wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > New guy here. I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like
> > more information on these ships. I heard there were only nine
> > manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. Because the
> > nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm
> > curious how others have dealt with this.
> >
> > If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love
> > to hear from you.
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 914Driver
>
> Dan,
> If you bought N301J, I have carnal knowledge of her!
> JJ

Yikes. I could have done without that mental image.

Darryl

[John Carlyle]

On Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:51:57 PM UTC-4, JJ Sinclair wrote:
> Dan,
> If you bought N301J, I have carnal knowledge of her!
> JJ

Nose hook or CG hook?

-John

[914Driver]

Thank you Steve. I'm not altering anything, just researching. I am VERY happy with the ship and you should see how the trailer cleaned up!

Agreed, there is only one Schuemannize Libelle, mine is a JJ Sinclair. Where may I find others of similar tastes? How many others are there and who may be keeping track?


This is probably the last glider I'll ever buy.


Dan


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/914Dan/IMG_0428.jpg

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Jun 26, 6:41*pm, 914Driver >
wrote:
> Thank you Steve. *I'm not altering anything, just researching. *I am
> VERY happy with the ship and you should see how the trailer cleaned up!
>
> Agreed, there is only one Schuemannize Libelle, mine is a JJ Sinclair.
> Where may I find others of similar tastes? *How many others are there
> and who may be keeping track?
>
> This is probably the last glider I'll ever buy.
>
> Dan
>
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/914Dan/IMG_0428.jpg
>
> --
> 914Driver

Hi Dan,

Looks nice. I can only think of one or two others that got the pointy
nose, so I am not sure how many got some other form of cockpit
ventilation. I think serial 55 (formerly N767M) had a pointy nose.
It went to Canada. There was one I remember seeing for sale recently
that had a pointy nose. Seller has high and low profile canopies for
the plane. I think it, too, is in Canada. Can't find the ad now. I
think all the rest still have the round nose and air vent.

JJ is on here, and he can tell you how it was for him.

Enjoy the bird. Should be a great flyer!

Steve

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

Dan,
The mod I did 30+ years back drew air from NASA duct located below the cockpit that also held the tow hook. Not much flow while on tow because it is blocked by hook and rope, but it was adequate after release. The air went to a 1" hose that could be directed where desired, usually on my face (held by a rubber band around the canopy release knob). Vent air could be directed onto the windscreen by plugging the hose..........not very aerospacy, but it worked well. If you want more vent air you could add a small vent to the aft canopy. Aircraft Spruce & Specialty sells a 3" circular vent that can be popped into the appropriately sized hole cut in the canopy.

N301J was my pride and joy until the "Spring Surprise" of 1982 when I was informed I would not be allowed to fly it in competition any more because it exceeded the manufactures gross weight which was (and still is) 662! Thank you Carl Herold!
Enjoy your new bird,
JJ

[Mike McCarron[_2_]]

At 22:43 25 June 2012, 914Driver wrote:
>
>Hello all,
>
>New guy here. I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like
>more information on these ships. I heard there were only nine
>manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. Because the
>nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm
>curious how others have dealt with this.
>
>If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love
>to hear from you.
>
>
>Thanks, Dan
>
>
>
>
>--
>914Driver
Dan,

Before you take your first flight in your 301 you might want to first of
all have a highly experienced instructor in your club make a test flight in
your glider to make sure there are no surprises, Next that instructor
should fly with you in one of your club gliders and let you know what
differences you might expect during your first flights. That instructor
should also be able to evaluate your skills and make any necessary
recommendations prior to your making your first flight.

You might also talk to other pilots in your club with CG hooks on their
single seat gliders and ask about their experiences in transitioning from
the club gliders.

Good luck,

MC

[Mike McCarron[_2_]]

At 22:43 25 June 2012, 914Driver wrote:
>
>Hello all,
>
>New guy here. I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like
>more information on these ships. I heard there were only nine
>manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. Because the
>nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm
>curious how others have dealt with this.
>
>If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love
>to hear from you.
>
>
>Thanks, Dan
>
>
>
>
>--
>914Driver
Dan,

Before you take your first flight in your 301 you might want to first of
all have a highly experienced instructor in your club make a test flight in
your glider to make sure there are no surprises, Next that instructor
should fly with you in one of your club gliders and let you know what
differences you might expect during your first flights. That instructor
should also be able to evaluate your skills and make any necessary
recommendations prior to your making your first flight.

You might also talk to other pilots in your club with CG hooks on their
single seat gliders and ask about their experiences in transitioning from
the club gliders.

Good luck,

MC

[Mike McCarron[_2_]]

At 22:43 25 June 2012, 914Driver wrote:
>
>Hello all,
>
>New guy here. I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like
>more information on these ships. I heard there were only nine
>manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. Because the
>nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm
>curious how others have dealt with this.
>
>If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love
>to hear from you.
>
>
>Thanks, Dan
>
>
>
>
>--
>914Driver
Dan,

Before you take your first flight in your 301 you might want to first of
all have a highly experienced instructor in your club make a test flight in
your glider to make sure there are no surprises, Next that instructor
should fly with you in one of your club gliders and let you know what
differences you might expect during your first flights. That instructor
should also be able to evaluate your skills and make any necessary
recommendations prior to your making your first flight.

You might also talk to other pilots in your club with CG hooks on their
single seat gliders and ask about their experiences in transitioning from
the club gliders.

Good luck,

MC

[Tim Hanke]

On Thursday, June 28, 2012 9:36:45 AM UTC-4, Mike McCarron wrote:
> At 22:43 25 June 2012, 914Driver wrote:
> >
> >Hello all,
> >
> >New guy here. I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like
> >more information on these ships. I heard there were only nine
> >manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. Because the
> >nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm
> >curious how others have dealt with this.
> >
> >If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love
> >to hear from you.
> >
> >
> >Thanks, Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >914Driver
> Dan,
>
> Before you take your first flight in your 301 you might want to first of
> all have a highly experienced instructor in your club make a test flight in
> your glider to make sure there are no surprises, Next that instructor
> should fly with you in one of your club gliders and let you know what
> differences you might expect during your first flights. That instructor
> should also be able to evaluate your skills and make any necessary
> recommendations prior to your making your first flight.
>
> You might also talk to other pilots in your club with CG hooks on their
> single seat gliders and ask about their experiences in transitioning from
> the club gliders.
>
> Good luck,
>
> MC

Mike,

I flew the ship over Memorial Day. It flew really nice. The cockpit did seem warm and thought it would be nice to have a sliding window or something better to provide more ventalation. It was sealed better than my old 201b and flew nicer.


Tim Hanke
Adirondack Soaring, CFIG

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

The H-301 is a sweet

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

The H-301 is a sweet flying machine and will climb on a nats fart. The dive brakes aren't as affective as a ship with spoilers, so I usually entered the pattern at about 800 feet and pulled them out most of down-wind. If your high, it will take longer to shed the altitude.
JJ

[[email protected]]

I fly a Schuemanized H301. If it's hot, I leave the canopy cracked on tow. I have the standard sliding window with the scoop which is adequate off tow. Be glad to share any info/experiences with you.

Olin Kane

On Monday, June 25, 2012 4:43:58 PM UTC-6, 914Driver wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> New guy here. I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like
> more information on these ships. I heard there were only nine
> manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. Because the
> nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm
> curious how others have dealt with this.
>
> If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love
> to hear from you.
>

[914Driver]

Wow, great responses! Thank you all.

John Carlyle: It's a CG hook.

MC: Of course. Safety First!

JJ: I'm not going to poke holes anywhere as I don't know the forces on the canopy, I could generate a stress concentrator. I will live with it for a while before doing anything.

Carnal Knowlege? No way you can put two people in there, you better send me a PM; with pictures. I have cash. =~)

Back to my original question: How many are out there? Bad behavior?

Resale value isn't a concern, it's never leaving. C'mon, it looks fast just sitting there.



Dan

[914Driver]

My new bumper sticker:



Climb on a gnat's fart

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

>
> Back to my original question: How many are out there? Bad behavior?

The original Schueman and my bird + the FJ-1 were complete make-overs, there must be another 8 or 10 H-301,s with the leading edge mod and flap travel change.

Don't know any bad habits, the low horizontal will shake about 3 knots above stall because it is eating dirty air coming off the wing..........this has saved me a couple of times.

The gear is weak by todays standards and so is the aft fuselage. Try not to ground-loop her or you will be visiting the sailplane doctor. Keep her dry because she has wooden bones.
Enjoy,
JJ

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Jun 28, 8:39*pm, 914Driver >
wrote:
>
> Back to my original question: *How many are out there? *Bad behavior?
>
> Dan
>
Don't think we can tell you "how many are out there". They were not
done by Wil, but were done by the individual owners. So, unless every
person that has one with a leading edge mod that calls their plane a
"Schuemannized Libelle" steps up and answers, the world may never
know! I recall that N301RG has the leading edge mod. I also know
that Joe Emons was going to fly the Schuemann Libelle in a regionals
at Sunflower in the Standard Class. Back when they would allow you to
lock the flaps and fly then in Standard Class. After two attempted
launches with wing drop and off runway excursions, he said "Screw it!"
unlocked the flaps, and flew Open Class. Against Nimbus 2, Mescalero,
and I don't recall what all else. As Wil said in the writeup, don't
lock the flaps and fly Standard Class. You won't like it. And might
hurt it.

And the only bad behavior they have is running close enough to even
with an AS-W20 (when all are dry) that the 20 owner gets mad at you
because he can't leave you behind!

Steve

[[email protected]]

On Monday, June 25, 2012 3:43:58 PM UTC-7, 914Driver wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> New guy here. I recently bought a Schuemanized Libelle and would like
> more information on these ships. I heard there were only nine
> manufactured, but I can't find that in writing anywhere. Because the
> nose is closed up (CG tow hook now) air into the cabin is slight, I'm
> curious how others have dealt with this.
>
> If anyone here has information or a point of contact for these, I'd love
> to hear from you.
> o
>
> Thanks, Dan
>
>
>
>
> --
> 914Driver

I was briefly a part-owner of N152F. Serial # 30, I believe. Ex Joe Lincoln, via Judy Ruprecht through the San Diego Aviation Museum. It has sharpened leading edge, pointed nose, and tail vent displacing drag chute. It still lives in So. Cal. but has not flown for a few years. Needs rudder gimbal AD compliance - we have the parts, but not yet done.
I believe it may have been Indrebo modified.

[[email protected]]

Hello Dan,
you have an extremely nice bird there! Wish I lived in the US! Here in the old world (Germany) it is hard to do such modifications.

I am just investigating what I can do to my Libelle. I won my first comp after 12 years in it without any modifications. I have added boundry layer fences between flaps and alierons (climbs better) and am currently fitting a low canopy, and will add a flap-fuselage teflon seal as soon as it gets warm enough to work outside.

May it be possible to get some pictures of your bird? I like the looks very much. And some details of the tail, the canopy setup and the wing-fuselage fillets would be great. And maybe a pic of the control rods in the fuselage about the battery case, there is a change somewere there, too.

Best regards, Volker

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:45:35 -0800, volkerappel69 wrote:

> I am just investigating what I can do to my Libelle. I won my first comp
> after 12 years in it without any modifications. I have added boundry
> layer fences between flaps and alierons (climbs better) and am currently
> fitting a low canopy, and will add a flap-fuselage teflon seal as soon
> as it gets warm enough to work outside.
>
From your comments I guess you're flying an H.301. I fly an H201, so I am
uncertain if the following will help you:

My 201 has a full span turbulator in the underside of the wing, placed
just in front of where the undercambered section starts. Subjectively, it
improves the high speed polar and the BGA agree, because it adds 1 to the
BGA handicap (from 89 to 90). It is an easy and cheap modification to
make. Glasfaser (www.streifly.de) support this modification, so ask them
if it will work on your glider.

Glasfaser also supply and fit wing root fairings and will know the EASA
rules about fitting them.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |