Sad news

[John Cochrane[_2_]]

Sad news from the Canadian Nationals

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1218237--glider-crash-in-fergus-ont-kills-man

http://soaringcanada.riq.ca/viewtopic.php?t=4268

The news reports only offer "Witnesses watched the glider circle high
above a farmer’s field when it suddenly dropped"

[Sean F (F2)]

When I heard about this a couple days ago it came as a great shock to me personally. To have another accident so close to Tim's is extremely hard to take. Derek was a great friend to my wife and I and many from the Ionia/MI area. Derek was arguably the friendliest, funnest and most enthusiastic contest pilot I have met. He impacted many of the Ionia pilots personally, myself included. Derek was soon to be off to Uvalde to represent Canada for Worlds in 15m. Our thoughts are with Derek's many friends and family. Derek is dearly missed.

Sean
F2

[Ramy]

On Thursday, June 28, 2012 7:54:19 AM UTC-7, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> When I heard about this a couple days ago it came as a great shock to me personally. To have another accident so close to Tim's is extremely hard to take. Derek was a great friend to my wife and I and many from the Ionia/MI area. Derek was arguably the friendliest, funnest and most enthusiastic contest pilot I have met. He impacted many of the Ionia pilots personally, myself included. Derek was soon to be off to Uvalde to represent Canada for Worlds in 15m. Our thoughts are with Derek's many friends and family. Derek is dearly missed.
>
> Sean
> F2

No doubt another tragic year for soaring. Sounds strikingly similar to the Ionia accident. In both accidents the log file should hopefully tell how close to the ground they were thermaling and at what speed. This can be an extremely valuable lesson for the rest of us. I have to admit I find myself recently pulling low saves from 500 AGL, perhaps it is time to revisit this strategy. I hope we wouldn't need to wait 2 years for the final NTSB report to find out.

Ramy

[Evan Ludeman[_4_]]

On Jun 28, 5:15*pm, Ramy > wrote:
> On Thursday, June 28, 2012 7:54:19 AM UTC-7, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> > When I heard about this a couple days ago it came as a great shock to me personally. *To have another accident so close to Tim's is extremely hard to take. *Derek was a great friend to my wife and I and many from the Ionia/MI area. *Derek was arguably the friendliest, funnest and most enthusiastic contest pilot I have met. *He impacted many of the Ionia pilots personally, myself included. *Derek was soon to be off to Uvalde to represent Canada for Worlds in 15m. *Our thoughts are with Derek's many friends and family. *Derek is dearly missed.
>
> > Sean
> > F2
>
> No doubt another tragic year for soaring. Sounds strikingly similar to the Ionia accident. In both accidents the log file should hopefully tell how close to the ground they were thermaling and at what speed. This can be an extremely valuable lesson for the rest of us. I have to admit I find myself recently pulling low saves from 500 AGL, perhaps it is time to revisit this strategy. I hope we wouldn't need to wait 2 years for the final NTSB report to find out.
>
> Ramy

The accident was described to me by friends on site... who probably
don't feel like talking about it. I don't much, either, except to say
it's clear that it was a landing accident, hit trees on short final.
High winds a factor, probably. Good field was selected, pattern was
flown, it wasn't some panic straight in thing. Location is ~2 miles
SSE of YSA. I liked Derek. Very sad about this.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

[[email protected]]

As a husband and father of three I am beginning to loose my stomach for this type of news. I have over 11,000 hours, have been flying professionally and working as an aircraft mechanic since I was knee high to a grass hopper.. Across the ramp from me is an Ag Pilot training school. With all of this exposure to aviation I have never experienced so many fine and talented aviators perishing in VFR weather while flying very well maintained machines.. Can it be that my passion for soaring is really something too dangerous for me to pursue? Each of you guys are valuable friends, please take care of yourselves.

Lane
XF

[Tim Mara]

very sad indeed, Derek has been a very good customer and can I say "Friend"
for a long time
He of course will be sadly missed....My prayers go out for him and all those
close to him
May he find greater sky
tim


"John Cochrane" > wrote in message
...
Sad news from the Canadian Nationals

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1218237--glider-crash-in-fergus-ont-kills-man

http://soaringcanada.riq.ca/viewtopic.php?t=4268

The news reports only offer "Witnesses watched the glider circle high
above a farmer’s field when it suddenly dropped"

[John Cochrane[_2_]]

> > Ramy
>
> The accident was described to me by friends on site... who probably
> don't feel like talking about it. *I don't much, either, except to say
> it's clear that it was a landing accident, hit trees on short final.
> High winds a factor, probably. *Good field was selected, pattern was
> flown, it wasn't some panic straight in thing. *Location is ~2 miles
> SSE of YSA. *I liked Derek. *Very sad about this.
>
> -Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan:

At 2 miles out it would only take 300 feet to make it home. "Good
pattern" and 2 miles out don't really add up. If you have 600 feet at
2 miles to make a good pattern, making it to the airport is easy.

I don't intend uninformed criticism of the pilot here, 2 miles out is
a coffin corner for all of us. I am just curious whether to file the
tragedy in the "final glide mishap" rather than "landout mishap"
category.

I note the Canadian rules say a 500 foot finish cylinder at 2 km, but
still the rather mild altitude penalty of 20 points per 100 feet,
unlike the current US rule in which you are scored as a landout 200
feet below finish height. Also that the altitude is up to the CD. Do
you know the finish configuration at this contest? Sorry to bring it
up on ras, but this is the sort of thing that no NTSB ever would have
the wit to ask. 2 miles out puts the pilot half a mile from the finish
cylinder, an unusual place for a pilot to abandon a task.

http://www.sac.ca/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=538&Itemid=88

Thanks for the info. I'm only pursuing it because it has been a
terrible season, and perhaps time to search again if there is anything
we can do to lessen the frequency of these tragedies.

John Cochrane

[Evan Ludeman[_4_]]

On Jun 28, 7:44*pm, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> > > Ramy
>
> > The accident was described to me by friends on site... who probably
> > don't feel like talking about it. *I don't much, either, except to say
> > it's clear that it was a landing accident, hit trees on short final.
> > High winds a factor, probably. *Good field was selected, pattern was
> > flown, it wasn't some panic straight in thing. *Location is ~2 miles
> > SSE of YSA. *I liked Derek. *Very sad about this.
>
> > -Evan Ludeman / T8
>
> Evan:
>
> At 2 miles out it would only take 300 feet to make it home. "Good
> pattern" and 2 miles out don't really add up. If you have 600 feet at
> 2 miles to make a good pattern, making it to the airport is easy.
>
> I don't intend uninformed criticism of the pilot here, 2 miles out is
> a coffin corner for all of us. *I am just curious whether to file the
> tragedy in the *"final glide mishap" rather than "landout mishap"
> category.
>
> I note the Canadian rules say a 500 foot finish cylinder at 2 km, but
> still the rather mild altitude penalty of 20 points per 100 feet,
> unlike the current US rule in which you are scored as a landout 200
> feet below finish height. *Also that the altitude is up to the CD. Do
> you know the finish configuration at this contest? Sorry to bring it
> up on ras, but this is the sort of thing that no NTSB ever would have
> the wit to ask. 2 miles out puts the pilot half a mile from the finish
> cylinder, an unusual place for a pilot to abandon a task.
>
> http://www.sac.ca/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=538&...
>
> Thanks for the info. I'm only pursuing it because it has been a
> terrible season, and perhaps time to search again if there is anything
> we can do to lessen the frequency of these tragedies.
>
> John Cochrane

I haven't talked to the person who has the flight log, let alone seen
it myself. We really can't analyze this accident without it. I don't
have an exact location for the crash and there is some uncertainty in
my mind as to whether the location given in a different article is
correct... because I can't match that tree line to anything I can see
on satellite views where the accident is said to have occurred. More
likely is that it is a bit farther out.

I really only weighed in here because I am as certain as I can be
based on second or third hand info that this was a landing accident,
not a thermaling stall/spin, as one might have suspected based on the
news.

-Evan / T8

[Jonathon May[_2_]]

At 00:39 29 June 2012, Evan Ludeman wrote:
>On Jun 28, 7:44=A0pm, John Cochrane
>wrote:
>> > > Ramy
>>
>> > The accident was described to me by friends on site... who probably
>> > don't feel like talking about it. =A0I don't much, either, except to
>sa=
>y
>> > it's clear that it was a landing accident, hit trees on short final.
>> > High winds a factor, probably. =A0Good field was selected, pattern
was
>> > flown, it wasn't some panic straight in thing. =A0Location is ~2
miles
>> > SSE of YSA. =A0I liked Derek. =A0Very sad about this.
>>
>> > -Evan Ludeman / T8
>>
>> Evan:
>>
>> At 2 miles out it would only take 300 feet to make it home. "Good
>> pattern" and 2 miles out don't really add up. If you have 600 feet at
>> 2 miles to make a good pattern, making it to the airport is easy.
>>
>> I don't intend uninformed criticism of the pilot here, 2 miles out is
>> a coffin corner for all of us. =A0I am just curious whether to file the
>> tragedy in the =A0"final glide mishap" rather than "landout mishap"
>> category.
>>
>> I note the Canadian rules say a 500 foot finish cylinder at 2 km, but
>> still the rather mild altitude penalty of 20 points per 100 feet,
>> unlike the current US rule in which you are scored as a landout 200


I am in Great Britain so some what remote ,but I am deeply moved and wish
to pass on my condolences.I cannot believe this is pilot error ,comp pilots

have so much instinctive skill, that is what allows them to deal with every

thing else while there body flys the plane.So my thoughts are medical ,or
possible the main ballast dumped and the fin stayed in and pushed the c of
g
beyond the recoverable range.
Again my heart felt sympathy to all friends and family.
Jon May
>> feet below finish height. =A0Also that the altitude is up to the CD. Do
>> you know the finish configuration at this contest? Sorry to bring it
>> up on ras, but this is the sort of thing that no NTSB ever would have
>> the wit to ask. 2 miles out puts the pilot half a mile from the finish
>> cylinder, an unusual place for a pilot to abandon a task.
>>
>>
>http://www.sac.ca/index2.php?
option=3Dcom_docman&task=3Ddoc_view&gid=3D53=
>8&...
>>
>> Thanks for the info. I'm only pursuing it because it has been a
>> terrible season, and perhaps time to search again if there is anything
>> we can do to lessen the frequency of these tragedies.
>>
>> John Cochrane
>
>I haven't talked to the person who has the flight log, let alone seen
>it myself. We really can't analyze this accident without it. I don't
>have an exact location for the crash and there is some uncertainty in
>my mind as to whether the location given in a different article is
>correct... because I can't match that tree line to anything I can see
>on satellite views where the accident is said to have occurred. More
>likely is that it is a bit farther out.
>
>I really only weighed in here because I am as certain as I can be
>based on second or third hand info that this was a landing accident,
>not a thermaling stall/spin, as one might have suspected based on the
>news.
>
>-Evan / T8
>
>
>

[Jock Proudfoot]

. . I don't
>have an exact location for the crash and there is some uncertainty in
>my mind as to whether the location given in a different article is
>correct... because I can't match that tree line to anything I can see
>on satellite views where the accident is said to have occurred. More
>likely is that it is a bit farther out.
>-Evan / T8

Location; N 43 48' 7" W 80 24' 43.71"
Fuselage approx 15' south of the treeline. Facing SW, parallel to the
treeline. On it's belly. Debris field contained to approx 50' radius

Cheers ...Jock

[John Cochrane[_2_]]

On Jun 29, 9:45*am, Jock Proudfoot > wrote:
> *. . * I don't
>
> >have an exact location for the crash and there is some uncertainty in
> >my mind as to whether the location given in a different article is
> >correct... because I can't match that tree line to anything I can see
> >on satellite views where the accident is said to have occurred. *More
> >likely is that it is a bit farther out.
> >-Evan / T8
>
> Location; *N 43 *48' *7" *W *80 *24' *43.71"
> Fuselage approx 15' south of the treeline. *Facing SW, parallel to the
> treeline. On it's belly. Debris field contained to approx 50' radius
>
> Cheers * ...Jock

Thanks. This helps a lot. But now it's even more of a puzzle. Google
map the location. It's 1.18 miles E/SE of a visible airport, marked
"arthur aerodrome" on google maps. There's an even closer "Bellwood
Aerodrome" but that doesn't exist according to the satellite photo.
It's 3.05 miles SE of the intersection of the runways at York. Most of
all, there are huge fields all over the place, bigger than this one,
with no trees at the ends, and next to the obvious roads, unlike this
field which is landlocked with no visible trailer access. It just
makes no sense to land in this field, let alone run in to the trees. I
hope the accident investigation unravels the mysteries a bit. Ugh.
John Cochrane

[Evan Ludeman[_4_]]

On Jun 29, 10:45*am, Jock Proudfoot > wrote:
> *. . * I don't
>
> >have an exact location for the crash and there is some uncertainty in
> >my mind as to whether the location given in a different article is
> >correct... because I can't match that tree line to anything I can see
> >on satellite views where the accident is said to have occurred. *More
> >likely is that it is a bit farther out.
> >-Evan / T8
>
> Location; *N 43 *48' *7" *W *80 *24' *43.71"
> Fuselage approx 15' south of the treeline. *Facing SW, parallel to the
> treeline. On it's belly. Debris field contained to approx 50' radius
>
> Cheers * ...Jock

Thanks. This location and orientation raises more questions in my
mind than it answers. Only the flight log will sort this out.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

[Sean F (F2)]

Per Google Earth I believe that the crash site (N 43 48' 7" W 80 24' 43.71) was 2.61 miles(4.18 km) SE of the center of the contest airport (Arthur East Field) (N 43° 50' 26" W 80° 26' 34").

On Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:39:28 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:
> On Jun 28, 7:44*pm, John Cochrane >
> wrote:
> > > > Ramy
> >
> > > The accident was described to me by friends on site... who probably
> > > don't feel like talking about it. *I don't much, either, except to say
> > > it's clear that it was a landing accident, hit trees on short final.
> > > High winds a factor, probably. *Good field was selected, pattern was
> > > flown, it wasn't some panic straight in thing. *Location is ~2 miles
> > > SSE of YSA. *I liked Derek. *Very sad about this.
> >
> > > -Evan Ludeman / T8
> >
> > Evan:
> >
> > At 2 miles out it would only take 300 feet to make it home. "Good
> > pattern" and 2 miles out don't really add up. If you have 600 feet at
> > 2 miles to make a good pattern, making it to the airport is easy.
> >
> > I don't intend uninformed criticism of the pilot here, 2 miles out is
> > a coffin corner for all of us. *I am just curious whether to file the
> > tragedy in the *"final glide mishap" rather than "landout mishap"
> > category.
> >
> > I note the Canadian rules say a 500 foot finish cylinder at 2 km, but
> > still the rather mild altitude penalty of 20 points per 100 feet,
> > unlike the current US rule in which you are scored as a landout 200
> > feet below finish height. *Also that the altitude is up to the CD. Do
> > you know the finish configuration at this contest? Sorry to bring it
> > up on ras, but this is the sort of thing that no NTSB ever would have
> > the wit to ask. 2 miles out puts the pilot half a mile from the finish
> > cylinder, an unusual place for a pilot to abandon a task.
> >
> > http://www.sac.ca/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=538&...
> >
> > Thanks for the info. I'm only pursuing it because it has been a
> > terrible season, and perhaps time to search again if there is anything
> > we can do to lessen the frequency of these tragedies.
> >
> > John Cochrane
>
> I haven't talked to the person who has the flight log, let alone seen
> it myself. We really can't analyze this accident without it. I don't
> have an exact location for the crash and there is some uncertainty in
> my mind as to whether the location given in a different article is
> correct... because I can't match that tree line to anything I can see
> on satellite views where the accident is said to have occurred. More
> likely is that it is a bit farther out.
>
> I really only weighed in here because I am as certain as I can be
> based on second or third hand info that this was a landing accident,
> not a thermaling stall/spin, as one might have suspected based on the
> news.
>
> -Evan / T8

[soartech[_2_]]

For those without Google Earth this site is about 50 miles WNW of
Toronto, Canada near the village of Metz.
This terrain is nothing but huge, 2000+ foot landable fields in all
directions. The tree line mentioned is just that:
a single line of trees. The only obstacle to a straight in landing.
Easy to avoid.
I agree that this may have been a health emergency that caused this.