Open Cirrus

[Duster]

Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
active since last year.

Thanks,
Mike

[Dan[_13_]]

On Sunday, July 1, 2012 4:28:03 PM UTC-7, Duster wrote:
> Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
> to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
> active since last year.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

This glider is a real pussy cat, stall characteristics are very benign, including spin entry.
I find the roll rate a little on the slow side, with heavy stick input.
Where I do most of my flying (Western Washington) this bird really shines in the mountains and ridges with it’s low sink rate, and fairly good L/D, which helps getting back home(or, at least out of the jaws of the Cascades).. After taking ownership, I had the drogue chute removed, and a new wt. and balance. Overall, this is a fun ship to fly with no
bad flight characteristics, for a first generation glass ship.

Dan

[Frank Whiteley]

On Sunday, July 1, 2012 5:28:03 PM UTC-6, Duster wrote:
> Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
> to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
> active since last year.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Looks like the old site's been abandoned as the domain's for sale.
There is a Yahoo group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Open_Cirrus/?tab=s

The German builds are fine. The VTC builds are speed restricted. CG hook only unless later modified somehow. Wings are heavy for some, so standard cautions regarding good trailer setup and rigging aids.

I've heard that a couple of people have had in-flight issues with the original seat back.

The rudder cables can become fish hooked and cut into the guides under the seat. Rudder pedals should adjust easily.

Flies and handles great. I had one with the extended wing tips which gave it really long legs. Will bring you home most days.

Frank Whiteley

[ProfChrisReed]

I've owned one for about 8 years now. As others have posted, it's a very benign handling glider. Comparatively slow and heavy in roll, though booting in full rudder helps if you need to force your way into a thermal (I believe this might induce some wing drop, but doesn't risk a stall or spin in my experience if you're at around 50kt). It soars better than anything else at my club apart from the K6E, where we're about even.

1. Quite a roomy cockpit unless you're tall. I'm just under 6' 2", and I removed the hammock seat to give myself enough headroom. I'm quite happy about that because the hammock seat can move your position on the launch, which could be scary when winching. Hard cushions are better.

2. This is an old design (1967) and so the airfoil doesn't take kindly to hooliganing around the sky. 50kt best glide, 50 kt (+ 1/2 wind)landing, 60-65 kts if you're feeling aggressive (in UK conditions - maybe with 10kt thermal averages you can go faster, but in the UK a 4-5kt average day is a very good one).

3. Speed control on the approach is important as the airbrakes are weak compared to more modern designs. An extra 10 kts can double your landing distance. Of course, the tailchute can help you here, but ...

4. Tailchute is fairly reliable, but I've discovered the modes of rigging it so it won't deploy, or falls off. You need an extra 5kt to use it, so if it doesn't work see (3) above. I've practised opening it at low key (abeam landing point on downwind), and flying a curved approach works though feels scary at one point - my theory is that if it doesn't deploy in a field landing I have enough time to work out an improved arrival. Having said all that, I've never needed it in a real field landing (energy management is key)..

5. Stalling and spinning are docile, though with the wheel down the buffet is less noticeable. The only potential gotcha on spins is that (in mine at least) the rudder feels like it is on the stops when you have an inch more to go. And you need that last inch, at which point it recovers immediately. Thus FULL opposite rudder, and push through any resistance.

6. The wings are very heavy, but with two wing tip trestles it's a fairly easy two-man rig. I rig mine single-handed using two wide wing tip trestles, a wing root trestle, and a mid-wing dolly to take the weight.


7. You can go a long way in an Open Cirrus if you're patient and don't rush it. Keep the speed down, fly energy lines, and 30km without thermalling would be common. I work on 40:1 for final glide @ 50kt (claimed L/D is 44:1) and that gives me a small margin. If you can see the airfield you're in gliding range, unless you hit heavy sink or it'son a hill top.

If your style of flying is to go places, without rushing and turning as little as possible, it will suit you. If you want snappy handling and to fly fast between thermals, it won't.

On Monday, July 2, 2012 12:28:03 AM UTC+1, Duster wrote:
> Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
> to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
> active since last year.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

[ProfChrisReed]

I forgot to add that aerotowing using the CG hook is a complete non-event (at least if you have a tailwheel - no experience of a Cirrus with a skid). No tendency to PIO and it follows the tug nicely.

On Monday, July 2, 2012 12:28:03 AM UTC+1, Duster wrote:
> Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
> to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
> active since last year.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

[150flivver]

Our club has one. We have had problems with the gear being reluctant to deploy airborne. Is there anything in particular we should do to make the gear come down easier. We've lubed everything and it cycles fine on the ground.

[aerodyne]

ALL;

Yes the website is down, but the message board works. Contact me
direct with any questions, or go to the link below to subscribe:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Open_Cirrus/

Aerodyne
Open Cirrus message board moderator
Cirrus S/N 80, "660"

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Jul 2, 11:12*pm, aerodyne > wrote:
> ALL;
>
> Yes the website is down, but the message board works. *Contact me
> direct with any questions, or go to the link below to subscribe:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Open_Cirrus/
>
> Aerodyne
> Open Cirrus message board moderator
> Cirrus S/N 80, "660"

And for what it is worth, you can access a shot of that website using
www.waybackmachine.com. All that is there is not lost. It will be
recovered. Sometime.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 2, 2012 2:01:04 PM UTC-7, ProfChrisReed wrote:
> I've owned one for about 8 years now. As others have posted, it's a very benign handling glider. Comparatively slow and heavy in roll, though booting in full rudder helps if you need to force your way into a thermal (I believe this might induce some wing drop, but doesn't risk a stall or spin in my experience if you're at around 50kt). It soars better than anything else at my club apart from the K6E, where we're about even.
>
> 1. Quite a roomy cockpit unless you're tall. I'm just under 6' 2", and I removed the hammock seat to give myself enough headroom. I'm quite happy about that because the hammock seat can move your position on the launch, which could be scary when winching. Hard cushions are better.
>
> 2. This is an old design (1967) and so the airfoil doesn't take kindly to hooliganing around the sky. 50kt best glide, 50 kt (+ 1/2 wind)landing, 60-65 kts if you're feeling aggressive (in UK conditions - maybe with 10kt thermal averages you can go faster, but in the UK a 4-5kt average day is a very good one).
>
> 3. Speed control on the approach is important as the airbrakes are weak compared to more modern designs. An extra 10 kts can double your landing distance. Of course, the tailchute can help you here, but ...
>
> 4. Tailchute is fairly reliable, but I've discovered the modes of rigging it so it won't deploy, or falls off. You need an extra 5kt to use it, so if it doesn't work see (3) above. I've practised opening it at low key (abeam landing point on downwind), and flying a curved approach works though feels scary at one point - my theory is that if it doesn't deploy in a field landing I have enough time to work out an improved arrival. Having said all that, I've never needed it in a real field landing (energy management is key).
>
> 5. Stalling and spinning are docile, though with the wheel down the buffet is less noticeable. The only potential gotcha on spins is that (in mine at least) the rudder feels like it is on the stops when you have an inch more to go. And you need that last inch, at which point it recovers immediately. Thus FULL opposite rudder, and push through any resistance.
>
> 6. The wings are very heavy, but with two wing tip trestles it's a fairly easy two-man rig. I rig mine single-handed using two wide wing tip trestles, a wing root trestle, and a mid-wing dolly to take the weight.
>
>
> 7. You can go a long way in an Open Cirrus if you're patient and don't rush it. Keep the speed down, fly energy lines, and 30km without thermalling would be common. I work on 40:1 for final glide @ 50kt (claimed L/D is 44:1) and that gives me a small margin. If you can see the airfield you're in gliding range, unless you hit heavy sink or it'son a hill top.
>
> If your style of flying is to go places, without rushing and turning as little as possible, it will suit you. If you want snappy handling and to fly fast between thermals, it won't.
>
> On Monday, July 2, 2012 12:28:03 AM UTC+1, Duster wrote:
> > Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
> > to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
> > active since last year.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike

I'm considering a seriously upgraded Open Cirrus as my first sailplane in 20 years. I have about 500 Ka6 hours. Is the roll rate just a little slow or REALLY slow. (Any idea what the 45-45 rate actually is?)
Also, I'm a little concerned about the dive brakes though I usually fly locally out of Minden and if you can't hit that runway, you shouldn't be flying.
Any commments appreciated Thanx

[GM]

On Sunday, July 1, 2012 7:28:03 PM UTC-4, Duster wrote:
> Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
> to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
> active since last year.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

My club had one and I flew it quite a bit off the winch and aero-tow. Both are non-events although it is impressive to see these floppy wings flex during the winch launch.
I don't agree with the notion that the drogue chute is unreliable! I used it on just about every landing just for fun. The key is to keep it dry, aired out and packed correctly. It WILL deploy. I saw one Cirrus that had its chute not deployed since it thermaled last with Pterodactyls. It was all stuck together, wadded up and came out in one chunk. It is an operator's/owner's error if they fail to deploy!
Uli

[Bob Kuykendall]

Doctor John, are you still flying these things? I still remember your recipe for mixing 5-minute epoxy!

You ought to consider building your own. I can give you the span of the O'Cirrus, with better brakes, autoconnecting controls, and all that stuff.

Thanks, Bob K.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/HP-24-Sailplane-Project/200931354951

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, December 14, 2014 6:50:19 AM UTC-8, GM wrote:
> I don't agree with the notion that the drogue chute is unreliable! I used it on just about every landing just for fun. The key is to keep it dry, aired out and packed correctly. It WILL deploy. I saw one Cirrus that had its chute not deployed since it thermaled last with Pterodactyls. It was all stuck together, wadded up and came out in one chunk. It is an operator's/owner's error if they fail to deploy!

Assuming it's the Cirrus I think it is (the one with the single piece canopy), I know the guy who restored it, and it no longer has a drogue chute nor the deployment mechanism. I tried, in vain, to talk him out that choice several times, it's otherwise a beautiful piece of work. To me, half the fun of owning a glider like this is the occasional chute assisted landing. Lacking the chute is not a problem, unless you really need to get into a short field someday.

Marc

[SF]

Mike,
The first glider I ever owned was an Open Cirrus. It flies really well. No bad habits to speak of. It will stay up when everything else can't. As long as you run at 60 -65 Kts. all is good, run at 70 Kts., and it falls out of the sky pretty fast.

At the end of the day handling the wing root will make you groan. It's not too bad to rig as long as you and two of your closest friends are "Strong Like Bull". I didn't have a one man rig, so it was a beast to handle.

It turns better to the right than the left, so you get in the habit of turning right. The rudder hinge is off set to one side. After spin training I entered what was supposed to be a quarter turn spin to the right, six turns later it finally came out of the spin after I pointed it straight down. The Drogue chute will pull it out of a spin supposedly, I was almost ready to try that. During normal flight it never tried to enter a spin, you really have to want it to spin to get it to break.

I used the drogue chute once for practice, and once for real on an outfield landing behind a building. (34.962767, -81.999230) Approach was from the SW over the concrete plant, the trees were about 60 FT tall, and the light poles that I flew between around the road were about 30 FT tall. It stopped about the middle of the building. Fantastic, every glider should have one.. Your are supposed to jettison the chute right before touch down, on this one I left it out hoping it would catch on something. Put it back in the box, went back to the field, re-assembled it, and flew 200K to the South that day. With the drogue chute out you have to really point the nose down to maintain your airspeed.

The cockpit is roomy, the sling seat takes a little working out to get it right, but I made a lot of long flights in it without difficulty.

As long as you work out the rigging & De-rigging, and are content with a leisurely pace, it's a great airplane. If you want to race it, have the handicap changed, it isn't as good as the handicap would lead one to believe.

SF

[[email protected]]

Dear Cirrus pilots: If not for yourselves at least keep the chute for the benefit of the rest of us. A glider popping the chute coming down final looks really cool. Just watch The Sun Ship Game!

If you're an SSA member you can dig up the old Polars Of Eight tests by Paul Bickle which include the big Cirrus.

[[email protected]]

Greetings!

Looking to buy a canopy for VTC Cirrus.If anyone knows where i can get it?

[[email protected]]

Can I compete in club class with Open Cirrus and what is the Hcap? I cant find it on FAI list.

[Duster]

On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 3:59:23 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> Can I compete in club class with Open Cirrus and what is the Hcap? I cant find it on FAI list.

I believe the handicap for the 17.7m Cirrus is 0.98.
Officially, the "Open" in Open Cirrus is an unofficial nickname given it is an open-class glider. The "Standard" Cirrus is standard-class 15m (no flaps).

[Ross[_3_]]

Not sure you can fly it in the club class. Would need to be asked at the contest.
According to the German list:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segelflug-Indexliste#Clubklasse

The 18m version has a 102 handicap. I see no real reason why you couldn't but may require individual approval for the comp.

[Ross[_3_]]

Would need to be asked at the contest.
According to the German list:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segelflug-Indexliste#Clubklasse

The 18m version has a 102 handicap. I see no real reason why you couldn't but may require individual approval for the comp.

[[email protected]]

Duster, Ross tnx for the answer.
Safe soaring....

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 8:51:18 PM UTC-5, Duster wrote:
> On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 3:59:23 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > Can I compete in club class with Open Cirrus and what is the Hcap? I cant find it on FAI list.
>
> I believe the handicap for the 17.7m Cirrus is 0.98.
> Officially, the "Open" in Open Cirrus is an unofficial nickname given it is an open-class glider. The "Standard" Cirrus is standard-class 15m (no flaps).

I think Club class is restricted to 15 Meters. Sounds like a dumb rule to me but that is the rule.

[Ross[_3_]]

The IGC list includes the 16.6m Cirrus, so not restricted to wingspan.

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 3:46:15 PM UTC-6, Ross wrote:
> The IGC list includes the 16.6m Cirrus, so not restricted to wingspan.

This was mentioned in another thread (search Club Class Gliders), and it was mentioned that the IGC list was going to be revised to REMOVE the 16.6 M Cirrus from the list. IGC limits gliders to 15 meter span for Club Class Competition. Now, if you want to do a "US thing" and saw your 17.74 meter Cirrus down to 15 meters of span, they might consider issuing a handicap for it at the reduced span and allowing it to compete in Club Class. But, I would check with them before putting saw to wing.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Steve Leonard

[Jock Proudfoot]

At 22:32 20 February 2017, Steve Leonard wrote:
>On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 3:46:15 PM UTC-6, Ross
wrote:
>> The IGC list includes the 16.6m Cirrus, so not restricted to
wingspan.
>This was mentioned in another thread (search Club Class
Gliders), and it was mentioned that the IGC list was going to be
revised to REMOVE the 16.6 M Cirrus from the list. IGC limits
gliders to 15 meter span for Club Class Competition. Now, if
you want to do a "US thing" and saw your 17.74 meter
>Cirrus down to 15 meters of span, they might consider issuing
a handicap for it at the reduced span and allowing it to compete
in Club Class. But, I would check with them before putting saw
to wing.
>Just my 2 cents worth...
>Steve Leonard
>

FAI Sporting Code for Gliding
Section 3 – Gliding , valid from 1 October 2016

5.5 COMPETITION CLASSES

5.5.7 Club Class The purpose of the Club Class is to preserve
the value of older high performance gliders, to provide
inexpensive but high quality international championships, and to
enable pilots who do not have access to gliders of the highest
standard of performance to take part in contests at the highest
levels.
a. ENTRY The only limitation is that it is within the agreed range
of handicap factors for the competition.
b. BALLAST Disposable ballast is not permitted.
c. SCORING Championship scoring formulas shall include
handicap factors.
~