C182 Stabilized Approach

[III]

I know this question pertains to aircraft and piloting in general, but
I'm wondering what C-182 pilots do.

I'm sold on the benefits of a stabilized approach.

I consider a stabilized approach to mean that power, flaps, and trim
are set right after turning final (assuming a standard pattern) and
then aren't adjusted until starting the roundout and flare. I like to
land with the flaps fully extended. If I turn final in a Skylane and
extend the flaps to 40 degrees, it takes a lot of power to make it to
the threshold (given a 1/2 mile final, which is not unheard of at our
busy airport), so a stabilized approach requires a lot of power to
drag the plane in.

I've taken to turning final with two notches of flaps out, leaving the
power at about 1700 RPM, and then adding more flaps as needed to
follow a path to the threshold and finally adding the remaining flaps
on very-short final. That's not a stabilized approach. It works, but I
know I could be doing better.

I could stabilize the approach using two notches of flaps, but I'd
rather use them all. I could use all the flaps on the entire trip down
final, but I'd rather not drag the plane along.

My CFI uses incremental flaps, my partner advises using two notches
and then maybe kicking them all in at the end (although I don't know
what he does when he's alone), and a more-experienced pilot friend
(but not in 182's) just commented that I should be flying a stabilized
approach.

So, what do other Skylane pilots do?

Thanks.

[Neil Gould]

Hi,

Disclaimer: I'm not a C-182 pilot.

Recently, III > posted:

> I know this question pertains to aircraft and piloting in general, but
> I'm wondering what C-182 pilots do.
>
> I'm sold on the benefits of a stabilized approach.
>
> I consider a stabilized approach to mean that power, flaps, and trim
> are set right after turning final (assuming a standard pattern) and
> then aren't adjusted until starting the roundout and flare. I like to
> land with the flaps fully extended. If I turn final in a Skylane and
> extend the flaps to 40 degrees, it takes a lot of power to make it to
> the threshold (given a 1/2 mile final, which is not unheard of at our
> busy airport), so a stabilized approach requires a lot of power to
> drag the plane in.
>
My idea of a stabilized approach is one in which you *will* make the
field. So, in your case, I'd either not put 40 degrees of flaps in until
the field is made, or use a steeper AOA if for some reason I *had* to use
full flaps. There's not a lot of value to being stabilized if that puts
you short with any loss of power.

Regards,

Neil

[Dale]

In article >,
(III) wrote:

Are you talking about an instrument approach or VFR landing?

I think defining a stabilized approach as meaning you can't change flap
settings may be a litte strict.

I would continue to use 10-20 degrees of flaps as you turn final, then
go to full flaps on short final when your landing is assured.

I personally don't fly a stabilized approach VFR. I am constantly
slowing as I get closer to the runway. Can't see any reason to be at a
low energy state way out from the runway.


> I know this question pertains to aircraft and piloting in general, but
> I'm wondering what C-182 pilots do.
>
> I'm sold on the benefits of a stabilized approach.
>
> I consider a stabilized approach to mean that power, flaps, and trim
> are set right after turning final (assuming a standard pattern) and
> then aren't adjusted until starting the roundout and flare. I like to
> land with the flaps fully extended. If I turn final in a Skylane and
> extend the flaps to 40 degrees, it takes a lot of power to make it to
> the threshold (given a 1/2 mile final, which is not unheard of at our
> busy airport), so a stabilized approach requires a lot of power to
> drag the plane in.
>
> I've taken to turning final with two notches of flaps out, leaving the
> power at about 1700 RPM, and then adding more flaps as needed to
> follow a path to the threshold and finally adding the remaining flaps
> on very-short final. That's not a stabilized approach. It works, but I
> know I could be doing better.
>
> I could stabilize the approach using two notches of flaps, but I'd
> rather use them all. I could use all the flaps on the entire trip down
> final, but I'd rather not drag the plane along.
>
> My CFI uses incremental flaps, my partner advises using two notches
> and then maybe kicking them all in at the end (although I don't know
> what he does when he's alone), and a more-experienced pilot friend
> (but not in 182's) just commented that I should be flying a stabilized
> approach.
>
> So, what do other Skylane pilots do?
>
> Thanks.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Jim]

In the 182RG I enter the pattern and slow to 130 knots on downwind then
gear, 10 degrees of flaps, and carb heat all come out 1/2 way down the
runway at about 20inches MP, this slows me to 100 knots
across from the numbers prop goes all the way in and reduce to 1500 RPMs
20 degrees of flaps on base now gives me 80knots indicated
turn final and bring flaps down to 30 degrees
hold it to 80 over the fence with touch down at around 65, adding just a
touch of power to arrest the sink if I'm heavy
I go through C.G.U.M.P.S. on each leg.

I rarely use 40 degrees of flaps because of the huge increase in drag with
little increase in lift requiring the increase in power you mention, I'd
rather fly a stabilized approach on the front side of the power curve than
run out of power and altitude both at the same time. Plus having to add
full power for a go around with 40 degrees of flaps hanging out provides for
an instant lesson in torque, P-factor, and asymmetrical thrust all happening
with very little altitude for slow reactions or improper trim settings.

For a short field landing I'll use the full 40 degrees of flaps and come in
carrying a small amount of extra power but I'll wait to put in that last
notch of flaps until on short final. This is a good point to remember your
slow flight training. The 182RG will fly at 37knots with gear and full
flaps out, but you're going to be very nose high, it requires nearly full
power and you'd better be on those rudder pedals. This doesn't leave you
much of an "out" when you're close to the ground.

If I need to loose altitude, I'd rather slip it down to where I need to be
as early as possible rather than throwing in all the flaps and chopping the
power. If you find yourself high after you're stabilized, then you slip to
loose the unwanted altitude once you take out the slip the airplane returns
to it's original stabilized decent.

If I'm dealing with a heavy crosswind component, I'll generally limit my
flaps to 20 degrees and keep the speed up.

The 182 will let you do a lot with it as far as landings go. I think the
most memorable landing I made with it was when advised by tower to keep my
pattern tight and landing short I was able to put in 40 degrees of flaps on
base, cut it to an 1/8 mile final slipping all the way down to 200 ft land
on the numbers and make the first taxi way. Inbound traffic had to ask the
tower where I had disappeared to.

Ok, now that I've opened up the whole slipping with flaps debate, read and
follow your POH, nothing in the 182RG's prohibiting it nor recommending
against it.

That's just the way I generally do it, or attempt to do it. YMMV.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

[Tony Cox]

III" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I'm sold on the benefits of a stabilized approach.
>

Good idea. Then if you have a heart attack on final, you're
pretty much guaranteed to touch down in one piece.

>
> I've taken to turning final with two notches of flaps out, leaving the
> power at about 1700 RPM, and then adding more flaps as needed to
> follow a path to the threshold and finally adding the remaining flaps
> on very-short final. That's not a stabilized approach. It works, but I
> know I could be doing better.

It's safer to remove power rather than add flaps to follow the
glidepath. That way, if you loose power through an engine failure,
you'll be in better shape. Also, if you need to go around, flaps
are already set and you don't need to mess with them.

>
> I could stabilize the approach using two notches of flaps, but I'd
> rather use them all. I could use all the flaps on the entire trip down
> final, but I'd rather not drag the plane along.

You can put in full flaps without power (so you're not dragging it).
I find that it startles many passengers because the approach angle
is very steep and the descent rate is alarming, so I tend not to do it.

>
> So, what do other Skylane pilots do?
>


On downwind, flaps 10, trim for 80knts, prop high rpm
On base, flaps 20, trim for 70, 1700rpm.
On final with crosswind and/or nervous passenger and/or
long runway
....keep flaps 20, trim for 65, power idle.
On final, no x-wind, more than 2000' runway
....flaps 40 over fence, trim 65, power idle.
On final, less than 2000' runway
.... flaps 40, trim 60, power to control glideslope & descent rate.



--
Dr. Tony Cox
Citrus Controls Inc.
e-mail:
http://CitrusControls.com/
"

[Michael 182]

I have a TR-182 and I fly it almost exactly the same way, although a little
slower on the downwind leg. Good description, Jim.

Michael

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> In the 182RG I enter the pattern and slow to 130 knots on downwind then
> gear, ...

[Magic Fingers]

I am a CFII and I own a C-182Q (fixed gear). I teach, and fly, as follows:

1) slow and trim to 90 knots abeam the numbers (about 15 inches/prop
forward).
2) 1 "notch" of flaps will slow you to 80 with little, if any, trimming.
3) Turning base and adding another "notch" will slow you to 70 knots, again,
with little, if any, trimming.
4) Turn final and add the 3rd "notch" to slow you to 60-65 knots...again,
will little, if any trimming.

The book says "normal approach" is 60-70 KIAS, so this works quite
well....consistently. Of course, you will be gradually throttling back and
making small trim corrections (if necessary).

I stress CONSISTENCY. Do the same thing, the same way, EVERY TIME (making
minor corrections/adjustments as necessary for wind, turbulence, etc.) and
you'll likely get consistently good landings.

Here's a tip: Add just a teensy bit of power on the round out to help raise
that heavy 182 nose and you'll grease it on.

PB


following this procedure"Tom Fleischman"
> wrote in message
rthlink.net...
> In article >, III
> > wrote:
>
> > I know this question pertains to aircraft and piloting in general, but
> > I'm wondering what C-182 pilots do.
> >
> > I'm sold on the benefits of a stabilized approach.
> >
> > I consider a stabilized approach to mean that power, flaps, and trim
> > are set right after turning final (assuming a standard pattern) and
> > then aren't adjusted until starting the roundout and flare. I like to
> > land with the flaps fully extended. If I turn final in a Skylane and
> > extend the flaps to 40 degrees, it takes a lot of power to make it to
> > the threshold (given a 1/2 mile final, which is not unheard of at our
> > busy airport), so a stabilized approach requires a lot of power to
> > drag the plane in.
> >
> > I've taken to turning final with two notches of flaps out, leaving the
> > power at about 1700 RPM, and then adding more flaps as needed to
> > follow a path to the threshold and finally adding the remaining flaps
> > on very-short final. That's not a stabilized approach. It works, but I
> > know I could be doing better.
> >
> > I could stabilize the approach using two notches of flaps, but I'd
> > rather use them all. I could use all the flaps on the entire trip down
> > final, but I'd rather not drag the plane along.
> >
> > My CFI uses incremental flaps, my partner advises using two notches
> > and then maybe kicking them all in at the end (although I don't know
> > what he does when he's alone), and a more-experienced pilot friend
> > (but not in 182's) just commented that I should be flying a stabilized
> > approach.
> >
> > So, what do other Skylane pilots do?
>
> I don't fly a Skylane very often, but I do fly a 180HP Arrow and a
> Beech Debonair on a regular basis.
>
> In the Arrow I use 1 notch of flaps when I drop the gear abeam the
> numbers, then 2nd notch after turning final. Prop goes full and trim
> for 100 MPH and adjust throttle for a 450FPM descent, keeping 2 notches
> of flaps all the way, milk the power out over the fence and land. I
> hardly ever use the 3rd notch unless its a very short field. This
> normally results in a well stabilized approach all the way down.
>
> In the Deb I drop the gear on downwind with approach flaps of about 15
> degrees. The MP goes to 15-17" on final, prop full, trim 90 kts, and
> flaps don't go full until short final. With flaps full the power comes
> out and then flare. The approach is stabilized until the configuration
> change and then it's time to begin the flare.
>
> Here's a good article by John Deakin on Stabilized approaches:
>
> http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182047-1.html

[Ronald Gardner]

I use 2 notches 90% of the time. The only time I go to full flaps is when
landing on a strip that is short, Say 2,200 FT or less. I find it is much
easier on the power and I like to be able to make the runway without
power. 1/2 mile out and some sort of engine problem leaves little time to
plan at 5 or 800 FT.

Ron

III wrote:

> I know this question pertains to aircraft and piloting in general, but
> I'm wondering what C-182 pilots do.
>
> I'm sold on the benefits of a stabilized approach.
>
> I consider a stabilized approach to mean that power, flaps, and trim
> are set right after turning final (assuming a standard pattern) and
> then aren't adjusted until starting the roundout and flare. I like to
> land with the flaps fully extended. If I turn final in a Skylane and
> extend the flaps to 40 degrees, it takes a lot of power to make it to
> the threshold (given a 1/2 mile final, which is not unheard of at our
> busy airport), so a stabilized approach requires a lot of power to
> drag the plane in.
>
> I've taken to turning final with two notches of flaps out, leaving the
> power at about 1700 RPM, and then adding more flaps as needed to
> follow a path to the threshold and finally adding the remaining flaps
> on very-short final. That's not a stabilized approach. It works, but I
> know I could be doing better.
>
> I could stabilize the approach using two notches of flaps, but I'd
> rather use them all. I could use all the flaps on the entire trip down
> final, but I'd rather not drag the plane along.
>
> My CFI uses incremental flaps, my partner advises using two notches
> and then maybe kicking them all in at the end (although I don't know
> what he does when he's alone), and a more-experienced pilot friend
> (but not in 182's) just commented that I should be flying a stabilized
> approach.
>
> So, what do other Skylane pilots do?
>
> Thanks.

[john smith]

For VFR circuit patterns, I fly the same as PB and Tony.
I think Jim is a little fast, causing him to float down the runway
before touching down.

For IFR ILS... at the outer marker, needles centered... 10 degrees
flaps, 15-16 inches manifold pressure, rpm takes care of itself since
you are below governor oil pressure. This will give you 90 knots and
match the glideslope.

[john smith]

john smith wrote:
>
> For VFR circuit patterns, I fly the same as PB and Tony.
> I think Jim is a little fast, causing him to float down the runway
> before touching down.

I need to correct myself, because Jim's aircraft is an RG, it is heavier
and therefore my require more speed.

[SAC]

What works for me is to be around 13" by the time I'm mid-field
downwind and around 100 kts and slowing. Add the 1st notch abeam the
numbers and start slowing to 80-90 kts. Add 2nd notch on base
and be at 70 on final. I use the last not on final if needed, which I
usually do to perform a nice slow, short field landing at 60-65 kts.

I love seeing how well a 182 perform a short landing. Great plane.




"III" > wrote in message
om...
> I know this question pertains to aircraft and piloting in general, but
> I'm wondering what C-182 pilots do.
>
> I'm sold on the benefits of a stabilized approach.
>
> I consider a stabilized approach to mean that power, flaps, and trim
> are set right after turning final (assuming a standard pattern) and
> then aren't adjusted until starting the roundout and flare. I like to
> land with the flaps fully extended. If I turn final in a Skylane and
> extend the flaps to 40 degrees, it takes a lot of power to make it to
> the threshold (given a 1/2 mile final, which is not unheard of at our
> busy airport), so a stabilized approach requires a lot of power to
> drag the plane in.
>
> I've taken to turning final with two notches of flaps out, leaving the
> power at about 1700 RPM, and then adding more flaps as needed to
> follow a path to the threshold and finally adding the remaining flaps
> on very-short final. That's not a stabilized approach. It works, but I
> know I could be doing better.
>
> I could stabilize the approach using two notches of flaps, but I'd
> rather use them all. I could use all the flaps on the entire trip down
> final, but I'd rather not drag the plane along.
>
> My CFI uses incremental flaps, my partner advises using two notches
> and then maybe kicking them all in at the end (although I don't know
> what he does when he's alone), and a more-experienced pilot friend
> (but not in 182's) just commented that I should be flying a stabilized
> approach.
>
> So, what do other Skylane pilots do?
>
> Thanks.

[EDR]

In article <5vuDb.362220$Dw6.1192966@attbi_s02>, SAC
> wrote:

> What works for me is to be around 13" by the time I'm mid-field
> downwind and around 100 kts and slowing. Add the 1st notch abeam the
> numbers and start slowing to 80-90 kts. Add 2nd notch on base
> and be at 70 on final. I use the last not on final if needed, which I
> usually do to perform a nice slow, short field landing at 60-65 kts.
> I love seeing how well a 182 perform a short landing. Great plane.

70 is too fast on final. The calibrated full flap stall speed is 41
kts/ 49 kts indicated. Faster than 65 and you will float several
hundred feet in ground effect before touchdown. I shoot for 55-60
across the threshhold on roundout with full flaps. Hold full back yoke
when on the mains and ease on the brakes. Do not release back pressure
on the yoke. You will be stopped in 600 feet.

[Rick Durden]

A stabilized approach is a turbojet operation, it does not necessarily
apply to small piston pounders. Going to full flaps early in the
approach is not a good idea, turning final with 20 degrees out and
then decelerating to final approach speed and extending the rest of
the flaps as you get in close (as you described) works much better.
There is no reason to be dragging a piston engine airplane in with
full flaps as you do not have the power response time issues that
turbojets do and which lead to the concept of the stabilized approach
for those airplanes.

All the best,
Rick

(III) wrote in message >...
> I know this question pertains to aircraft and piloting in general, but
> I'm wondering what C-182 pilots do.
>
> I'm sold on the benefits of a stabilized approach.
>
> I consider a stabilized approach to mean that power, flaps, and trim
> are set right after turning final (assuming a standard pattern) and
> then aren't adjusted until starting the roundout and flare. I like to
> land with the flaps fully extended. If I turn final in a Skylane and
> extend the flaps to 40 degrees, it takes a lot of power to make it to
> the threshold (given a 1/2 mile final, which is not unheard of at our
> busy airport), so a stabilized approach requires a lot of power to
> drag the plane in.
>
> I've taken to turning final with two notches of flaps out, leaving the
> power at about 1700 RPM, and then adding more flaps as needed to
> follow a path to the threshold and finally adding the remaining flaps
> on very-short final. That's not a stabilized approach. It works, but I
> know I could be doing better.
>
> I could stabilize the approach using two notches of flaps, but I'd
> rather use them all. I could use all the flaps on the entire trip down
> final, but I'd rather not drag the plane along.
>
> My CFI uses incremental flaps, my partner advises using two notches
> and then maybe kicking them all in at the end (although I don't know
> what he does when he's alone), and a more-experienced pilot friend
> (but not in 182's) just commented that I should be flying a stabilized
> approach.
>
> So, what do other Skylane pilots do?
>
> Thanks.

[Jim]

Thank you :) Especially when it's loaded heavy.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> john smith wrote:
> >
> > For VFR circuit patterns, I fly the same as PB and Tony.
> > I think Jim is a little fast, causing him to float down the runway
> > before touching down.
>
> I need to correct myself, because Jim's aircraft is an RG, it is heavier
> and therefore my require more speed.

[Hankal]

>Here's a tip: Add just a teensy bit of power on the round out to help raise
>that heavy 182 nose and you'll grease it on.

I fly a 172 with the Acvon conversion 180 hp and Horton Stohl kit.
I land with 1500 rpm always under 60 knots and my landings are smooth.
Hank N1441P

[MikeM]

Magic Fingers wrote:
> I am a CFII and I own a C-182Q (fixed gear). I teach, and fly, as follows:

Your formula is guaranteed to consume three to four times as much runway as the
182 needs. I'll bet you go through lots of tires and brake pads, too...

The whole "stabilized approach" concept is just a cookbook method which
"works" for inexperienced pilots. If its all you learn, you never come
to experience what a capable short-field aircraft the 182 is...

MikeM
Skylane '1MM

[cloudstormer]

After dropping skydivers in FL100 I put the nose of our C182 down, keep the
speed sligthly over 160 kts. At left base I've slowed down to 100 knots. At
about 300 ft above ground I pull the nose up until the speed sinks to about
90 knots and I lower the flaps all the way down.
Then I land her on the very spot I want her to have, and it takes after
touchdown about 600 ft to take the first turn. Mind you, it's possible to
land at 45 kts, but without any crosswind.
They say a C206 flies even nicer....

Seriously (?), if you notice that your Cessna is sinking to fast with flaps
fully extended, why would you extend them to 40 degrees? 25 degrees would do
and if the speed or altitude is to high or to (s)low, you can do something
about it with. Use your manifold, your right hand should be at the black
handle all the time anyway.
So, at 300/500 ft (I think you'll be flying at that altitude at 0,5 mile
final) and a speed of 70 knots, I would keep the flaps at 25 degrees.
At very short final, keeping your eyes on the speed as well as on the rest,
you can extend the flaps to 40 degrees.

The best way to get the hang of it is to get in your C182 and practice touch
and go's up to the moment that someone will ask you to fly a righthand
circuit instead of a left.
But the most important thing is to enjoy yourself.