Hello? Any oldtimers around?

[Ricky]

Is Mx the only oldtimer around? I'm very glad to see he's still here,
by the way, just wondering if everybody left in the midst of the
spammer a few years ago.

Happy Flying!

Ricky
CFII, Multi, Balloon
Soon, I hope; ATP, Ultralight, Glider, Gas Balloons

[Vaughn]

On 7/23/2012 1:43 PM, Ricky wrote:
> Is Mx the only oldtimer around? I'm very glad to see he's still here,
> by the way, just wondering if everybody left in the midst of the
> spammer a few years ago.
>
> Happy Flying!
>
> Ricky
> CFII, Multi, Balloon
> Soon, I hope; ATP, Ultralight, Glider, Gas Balloons


Some of us never left, but prefer to hide behind our troll filters.

There's really not much going on here any more,and that applies to most
of the Usenet not just this group. The last few years have been a
perfect storm for the Usenet.

I hope you get that glider ticket!

Vaughn (CFIG)

[george152]

Ricky wrote:
> Is Mx the only oldtimer around? I'm very glad to see he's still here,
> by the way, just wondering if everybody left in the midst of the
> spammer a few years ago.
>
> Happy Flying!
>
> Ricky
> CFII, Multi, Balloon
> Soon, I hope; ATP, Ultralight, Glider, Gas Balloons

Just looking in occasionally.
Good luck on the tickets :)

[Bug Dout]

Vaughn > writes:

> On 7/23/2012 1:43 PM, Ricky wrote:
>> Is Mx the only oldtimer around? I'm very glad to see he's still here,
>> by the way, just wondering if everybody left in the midst of the
>> spammer a few years ago.
>>
>> Happy Flying!
>>
>> Ricky
>> CFII, Multi, Balloon
>> Soon, I hope; ATP, Ultralight, Glider, Gas Balloons
>
>
> Some of us never left, but prefer to hide behind our troll filters.
>
> There's really not much going on here any more,and that applies to
> most of the Usenet not just this group. The last few years have been
> a perfect storm for the Usenet.

++1

Apart from the experimental world there's little new in GA
generally. The occasional new LSA model is released and non-certified
avionics gizmos update with frequency. For instance, Dynon now has a
complete ADS-B In/Out package (transponder and UAT receiver) for less
than $3000 (plus I'm sure one of their displays)...best price around at
the moment I think. Some portable gizmos that work with iPads. If GA is
to have a future it surely must be with LSA and Experimental-Amateur
Built aircraft. I wish the FAA would designate another type: pro-built
kitplanes.
--
Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I assure you that
mine are greater.
Einstein

[Vaughn]

On 7/24/2012 3:49 PM, Bug Dout wrote:
>and non-certified
> avionics gizmos update with frequency. For instance, Dynon now has a
> complete ADS-B In/Out package (transponder and UAT receiver) for less
> than $3000 (plus I'm sure one of their displays)..
My flight bag literally bulges with non-certified gizmos. I still carry
my trusty aviation GPS, but when I find the right GPS app for my pad it
will float to the dusty bottom of the bag along with the old gum
wrappers and FBO receipts.

My Zaon PCAS helps make up for my aging (but still certified) eyes. It
has severe limitations, but it beats nothing. If nothing else, it keeps
reminding me to look out the front window.

In-flight weather was just for the big boys a few years ago, but now
it's filtering down to the rest of us. My pad gives me weather up until
the moment I launch, and sporadically updates it in flight via 3G. I'm
interested in that $900.00 gizmo that gives reliable inflight weather on
the Ipad, but I suspect these things will cost much less in a year or
two, and you won't need to buy a Foreflight subscription to use them.
Here in south Florida, summer cross-country flying is all about dodging
thunderstorms. I would rather have in-flight weather than a parachute.

I recently bought the new $199.00 Google Nexus7 8" pad. It is a
candidate to replace the Ipad that I have been flying with. So far, I
have confirmed that (unlike my Ipad) it has an excellent GPS built in.
I get superb weather images on it with a $10.00 Android Foreflight
app. (no subscription charge). Now I'm just looking for a decent GPS
app, and I will have a cheap yoke-mountable one-box solution.

Vaughn

[John Clear]

In article >,
Edward A. Falk > wrote:
>In article >,
>Ricky > wrote:
>>Is Mx the only oldtimer around? I'm very glad to see he's still here,
>>by the way, just wondering if everybody left in the midst of the
>>spammer a few years ago.
>
>I've been around, on and off, since there was only rec.aviation, shellEy
>was a regular poster, and we had patches made so we could recognize
>each other at Oshkosh.

Same here. Got the patch too.

I wouldn't call an Mx an old timer. He was only around for the last
bit of the life of this group.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Ron Wanttaja[_2_]]

On 7/24/2012 5:19 PM, John Clear wrote:
> In >,
> Edward A. > wrote:
>> In >,
>> > wrote:
>>> Is Mx the only oldtimer around? I'm very glad to see he's still here,
>>> by the way, just wondering if everybody left in the midst of the
>>> spammer a few years ago.
>>
>> I've been around, on and off, since there was only rec.aviation, shellEy
>> was a regular poster, and we had patches made so we could recognize
>> each other at Oshkosh.
>
> Same here. Got the patch too.
>
> I wouldn't call an Mx an old timer. He was only around for the last
> bit of the life of this group.

I'm still about, too... got the patch on my camera bag.

Ron Wanttaja

[Dudley Henriques[_3_]]

On Monday, July 23, 2012 1:43:56 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
> Is Mx the only oldtimer around? I'm very glad to see he's still here,
> by the way, just wondering if everybody left in the midst of the
> spammer a few years ago.
>
> Happy Flying!
>
> Ricky
> CFII, Multi, Balloon
> Soon, I hope; ATP, Ultralight, Glider, Gas Balloons

I still have a shortcut on my desktop for Usenet groups and discover it every once in a while (like now:-) and will hit it in an "off moment" with nothing really expected at this end and I'm seldom surprised at what I find here. I'll take a look, smile as I realize Lucy has conned me once more and removed the football as I attempted to kick it :-))))))))), then I'll move on seldom posting. Just don't need the hassle any more.
Dudley Henriques

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Dudley Henriques > wrote:

> On Monday, July 23, 2012 1:43:56 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
> > Is Mx the only oldtimer around? I'm very glad to see he's still
> > here,
> > by the way, just wondering if everybody left in the midst of the
> > spammer a few years ago.
> >
> > Happy Flying!
> >
> > Ricky
> > CFII, Multi, Balloon
> > Soon, I hope; ATP, Ultralight, Glider, Gas Balloons
>
> I still have a shortcut on my desktop for Usenet groups and discover it every
> once in a while (like now:-) and will hit it in an "off moment" with nothing
> really expected at this end and I'm seldom surprised at what I find here.
> I'll take a look, smile as I realize Lucy has conned me once more and removed
> the football as I attempted to kick it :-))))))))), then I'll move on seldom
> posting. Just don't need the hassle any more.
> Dudley Henriques

I'm still around, too! The idiot filter sometimes get clogged, though,
so we have to wait until it gets cleared.

Just keep in formation, Dudley!

[Dudley Henriques[_3_]]

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:12:58 PM UTC-4, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>
> > On Monday, July 23, 2012 1:43:56 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
> > > Is Mx the only oldtimer around? I'm very glad to see he's still
> > > here,
> > > by the way, just wondering if everybody left in the midst of the
> > > spammer a few years ago.
> > >
> > > Happy Flying!
> > >
> > > Ricky
> > > CFII, Multi, Balloon
> > > Soon, I hope; ATP, Ultralight, Glider, Gas Balloons
> >
> > I still have a shortcut on my desktop for Usenet groups and discover it every
> > once in a while (like now:-) and will hit it in an "off moment" with nothing
> > really expected at this end and I'm seldom surprised at what I find here.
> > I'll take a look, smile as I realize Lucy has conned me once more and removed
> > the football as I attempted to kick it :-))))))))), then I'll move on seldom
> > posting. Just don't need the hassle any more.
> > Dudley Henriques
>
> I'm still around, too! The idiot filter sometimes get clogged, though,
> so we have to wait until it gets cleared.
>
> Just keep in formation, Dudley!

:-))
DH

[Mxsmanic]

Vaughn writes:

> My flight bag literally bulges with non-certified gizmos. I still carry
> my trusty aviation GPS, but when I find the right GPS app for my pad it
> will float to the dusty bottom of the bag along with the old gum
> wrappers and FBO receipts.

You are not worried about dependence on uncertified software and hardware?

> In-flight weather was just for the big boys a few years ago, but now
> it's filtering down to the rest of us. My pad gives me weather up until
> the moment I launch, and sporadically updates it in flight via 3G.

Is this the same XM weather that so concerns the NTSB because of its potential
lack of timeliness?

> I get superb weather images on it with a $10.00 Android Foreflight
> app. (no subscription charge). Now I'm just looking for a decent GPS
> app, and I will have a cheap yoke-mountable one-box solution.

Will you be making safety-of-life decisions based on these gadgets?

[Mxsmanic]

John Clear writes:

> I wouldn't call an Mx an old timer. He was only around for the last
> bit of the life of this group.

If you mean me, I've been posting to this group for a decade.

[Andy Hawkins]

Hi,
In article >,
> wrote:
> Vaughn writes:
>
>> My flight bag literally bulges with non-certified gizmos. I still carry
>> my trusty aviation GPS, but when I find the right GPS app for my pad it
>> will float to the dusty bottom of the bag along with the old gum
>> wrappers and FBO receipts.
>
> You are not worried about dependence on uncertified software and hardware?

Dependence? Assuming VFR flight, then all these 'uncertified' gizmos are
just backup for traditional Nav.

Andy

[Andy Hawkins]

Hi,
In article >,
> wrote:
> My flight bag literally bulges with non-certified gizmos. I still carry
> my trusty aviation GPS, but when I find the right GPS app for my pad it
> will float to the dusty bottom of the bag along with the old gum
> wrappers and FBO receipts.

Have you tried SkyDemon? (http://www.skydemon.aero). I use it in the UK, not
sure what its chart availability it like for your area of the world. It's
excellent.

Andy

[Mxsmanic]

Andy Hawkins writes:

> Dependence? Assuming VFR flight, then all these 'uncertified' gizmos are
> just backup for traditional Nav.

The temptation can be strong to use backup as primary.

[Andy Hawkins]

Hi,

In article >,
> wrote:
>> Dependence? Assuming VFR flight, then all these 'uncertified' gizmos are
>> just backup for traditional Nav.
>
> The temptation can be strong to use backup as primary.

Yes, but that is true in all walks of life. It's all about discipline.

I admit to sometimes leaning on my GPS more than I would like, which is why
I regularly fly with the GPS covered up to make sure my 'traditional' NAV
skills are still up to scratch.

Andy

[[email protected]]

Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Andy Hawkins writes:
>
>> Dependence? Assuming VFR flight, then all these 'uncertified' gizmos are
>> just backup for traditional Nav.
>
> The temptation can be strong to use backup as primary.

The temptation can be strong to strangle some ass hole that really ****es
one off but most people are able to resist the temptation to commit a
crime.

[[email protected]]

Andy Hawkins > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In article >,
> > wrote:
>>> Dependence? Assuming VFR flight, then all these 'uncertified' gizmos are
>>> just backup for traditional Nav.
>>
>> The temptation can be strong to use backup as primary.
>
> Yes, but that is true in all walks of life. It's all about discipline.
>
> I admit to sometimes leaning on my GPS more than I would like, which is why
> I regularly fly with the GPS covered up to make sure my 'traditional' NAV
> skills are still up to scratch.
>
> Andy


The point MX misses is that there is no such thing as a Nav device certified
for VFR flight other than the Mark I eyeball and a chart; everything else
is backup for VFR flight.

[Fritz Wuehler[_10_]]

I'm just lurking, since moving to Europe, where I believe the costs of
flying are probably too high to bother.

I would be more active on this list if I were an active pilot.

[Dave Doe]

In article >, ,
says...
>
> Mxsmanic > wrote:
> > Andy Hawkins writes:
> >
> >> Dependence? Assuming VFR flight, then all these 'uncertified' gizmos are
> >> just backup for traditional Nav.
> >
> > The temptation can be strong to use backup as primary.
>
> The temptation can be strong to strangle some ass hole that really ****es
> one off but most people are able to resist the temptation to commit a
> crime.

I'm sure he'll have a baiting retort to that too :)

--
Duncan.

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> The point MX misses is that there is no such thing as a Nav device certified
> for VFR flight other than the Mark I eyeball and a chart; everything else
> is backup for VFR flight.

I haven't missed it, but many pilots do, since they start relying on other
navigation methods as their primary methods regularly--especially GPS.

Most people (and not just pilots) have only a very vague notion of how GPS
works, and consequently have far more confidence in the system than they
should have. And it's easier to look at a GPS display (with a map) than out
the window. So people come to rely on GPS for primary navigation, with
occasionally unpleasant results. It happens for both automobile drivers and
pilots (and boaters, etc.), but the potential consequences of overreliance on
GPS are much more grave for pilots than they are for drivers.

This is true even for certified GPS units. Certification does not guarantee
reliability except in a few narrowly-defined circumstances.

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> The temptation can be strong to strangle some ass hole that really ****es
> one off but most people are able to resist the temptation to commit a
> crime.

They may still talk about it constantly like schoolchildren, however. It can
cloud or eliminate their ability to hold a rational discussion.

[[email protected]]

Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:
>
>> The point MX misses is that there is no such thing as a Nav device certified
>> for VFR flight other than the Mark I eyeball and a chart; everything else
>> is backup for VFR flight.
>
> I haven't missed it, but many pilots do, since they start relying on other
> navigation methods as their primary methods regularly--especially GPS.

And you know this how?

And even if true, this is a problem how; by the non-existant huge numbers
of pilots getting lost or violating airspace other than TFR violations,
which is a separate issue?

Another point you seem to have missed is that GPS displays a map and in
VFR flight you compare what you see on the map to what you see through
the window.

[[email protected]]

Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:
>
>> The temptation can be strong to strangle some ass hole that really ****es
>> one off but most people are able to resist the temptation to commit a
>> crime.
>
> They may still talk about it constantly like schoolchildren, however. It can
> cloud or eliminate their ability to hold a rational discussion.

Yeah, so what, even if true, which you have not established, and is
irrelevant whether you do or not?

Holding a rational discussion wasn't the issue being discussed, the issue
was resisting the temptation to violate a regulation/law.

[george152]

wrote:
> Andy > wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> In >,
>> > wrote:
>>>> Dependence? Assuming VFR flight, then all these 'uncertified' gizmos are
>>>> just backup for traditional Nav.
>>>
>>> The temptation can be strong to use backup as primary.
>>
>> Yes, but that is true in all walks of life. It's all about discipline.
>>
>> I admit to sometimes leaning on my GPS more than I would like, which is why
>> I regularly fly with the GPS covered up to make sure my 'traditional' NAV
>> skills are still up to scratch.
>>
>> Andy
>
>
> The point MX misses is that there is no such thing as a Nav device certified
> for VFR flight other than the Mark I eyeball and a chart; everything else
> is backup for VFR flight.
>
>
There's the whizz wheel and protractor :)

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> And you know this how?

Because I actually do know how GPS works. And I know from questioning pilots
and from reading accident reports that most pilots don't know how it works
(like most other people).

> And even if true, this is a problem how; by the non-existant huge numbers
> of pilots getting lost or violating airspace other than TFR violations,
> which is a separate issue?

Pilots rely on GPS for a lot more than just TFRs (actually, TFRs require more
than just GPS). They tend to rely upon GPS completely, even to the point of
never looking out the window. They don't realize their mistake until they hit
a mountain.

This points out another vulnerability: incorrect map data combined with a GPS,
which is even less reliable than GPS itself.

> Another point you seem to have missed is that GPS displays a map and in
> VFR flight you compare what you see on the map to what you see through
> the window.

GPS has no notion of maps. The GPS unit may display a map, but the map comes
from a database that is independent of the GPS receiver and may or may not be
accurate. It's important to allow for that, too.

[[email protected]]

Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:
>
>> And you know this how?
>
> Because I actually do know how GPS works.

Irrelevant to the question asked.

>> And even if true, this is a problem how; by the non-existant huge numbers
>> of pilots getting lost or violating airspace other than TFR violations,
>> which is a separate issue?
>
> Pilots rely on GPS for a lot more than just TFRs (actually, TFRs require more
> than just GPS). They tend to rely upon GPS completely, even to the point of
> never looking out the window. They don't realize their mistake until they hit
> a mountain.

First, few GPS used for VFR will display TFRs no matter what you have; soon
but not yet for the most part.

But more importantly, where is your data that shows VFR pilots are hitting
mountains or anything else because they are staring at the GPS?

> This points out another vulnerability: incorrect map data combined with a GPS,
> which is even less reliable than GPS itself.

Potential vulnerabilities of GPS are irrelevant to the issue at hand.

>> Another point you seem to have missed is that GPS displays a map and in
>> VFR flight you compare what you see on the map to what you see through
>> the window.
>
> GPS has no notion of maps. The GPS unit may display a map, but the map comes
> from a database that is independent of the GPS receiver and may or may not be
> accurate. It's important to allow for that, too.

This is a bunch of babble that boils down to a GPS displays a map.

Where the map came from is irrelvant.

In VFR flight you compare what you see on the map to what you see through
the window.

[Martin Hotze[_3_]]

Am 25.07.2012 08:02, schrieb Mxsmanic:
> John Clear writes:
>
>> I wouldn't call an Mx an old timer. He was only around for the last
>> bit of the life of this group.
>
> If you mean me, I've been posting to this group for a decade.
>

.... and you did all the best to help destroy the climate in this group.
so: get lost!

#m
--
"What would I do with 72 virgins? That's not a reward,
that's a punishment. Give me two seasoned whores any day."
(Billy Connolly)

[John Clear]

In article >,
Mxsmanic > wrote:
>John Clear writes:
>
>> I wouldn't call an Mx an old timer. He was only around for the last
>> bit of the life of this group.
>
>If you mean me, I've been posting to this group for a decade.

This group hasn't had much life in the past decade, so my point stands.

I've been around since before the rec.aviation split in the early 90s,
and I consider myself a newbie in these parts, compared to the real
old timers from the net.aviation days.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Mxsmanic]

Martin Hotze writes:

> ... and you did all the best to help destroy the climate in this group.

I'm afraid not. It was the kiddies that drove people out of the group, and I'm
not a kid.

[george152]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Martin Hotze writes:
>
>> ... and you did all the best to help destroy the climate in this group.
>
> I'm afraid not. It was the kiddies that drove people out of the group, and I'm
> not a kid.

Riiiight !

[Ron Wanttaja[_2_]]

On 7/24/2012 11:02 PM, Mxsmanic wrote:
> John Clear writes:
>
>> I wouldn't call an Mx an old timer. He was only around for the last
>> bit of the life of this group.
>
> If you mean me, I've been posting to this group for a decade.

Newcomer, then. I'm in the middle of my third decade, in this and the
predecessor groups such as misc.aviation.

Ron Wanttaja

[Ricky]

On Jul 25, 4:20*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:

> I'm afraid not. It was the kiddies that drove people out of the group, and I'm
> not a kid.

You haven't changed one bit in that decade. Herein lies your problem,
Mxsmanic. You claim to know a lot about aviation and flying, but your
knowlege is either 1.) Wrong (which you won't admit to), or, 2.)
Biased upon an artificial world of a simulator because you have never
flown a real airplane. Therefore, any "rational discussion" as you
like to put it, is practically invalid because you haven't used it in
the real world of actually flying airplanes. You may claim that it
does not matter, as you have in the past, but it matters a whole lot.

I often get this at work. My main career is that of an aircraft
structures and sheetmetal mechanic, A&P. I did really well in A&P
school not too long ago (3.8 GPA, I think) so I have a lot of "book
knowlege" when I go to work. But, within an hour of receiving a new
job I've never done before, or working with a non-A&P with lots of
experience and really good at his job, I realize my book knowlege
really means very, very little in the "real world."

Happy Flying!

Ricky
CFII, Multi, Balloon, A&P
Soon, I hope! ATP, Ultralight, Glider, Gas Balloon, IA

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 30, 2012 1:05:29 PM UTC-5, Ricky wrote:

> You haven't changed one bit in that decade. Herein lies your problem,
>
> Mxsmanic. You claim to know a lot about aviation and flying, but your
>
> knowlege is either 1.) Wrong (which you won't admit to), or, 2.)
>
> Biased upon an artificial world of a simulator because you have never
>
> flown a real airplane.

<SNIP>

> Ricky
>
> CFII, Multi, Balloon, A&P
>
> Soon, I hope! ATP, Ultralight, Glider, Gas Balloon, IA

Best response I've seen in this group in probably a decade :-)

To answer your question, yep, still lurk, my 10 year tenor flying has come to a close, sold my Sundowner about 2 years ago, rented for a year, cost didn't justify the means so I moved on to different hobbies. Only flying I am doing outside commercial flights is putting up aviation randoms on my You Tube channel as I have been having fun looking back at my aviation accomplishments (more than Mx can ever say he has done in real world flying).

My first post was on a 2400 baud modem and 4 Mhz Packard Bell computer so I am probably right up there with the older timers of this group.

Ricky, I sure hope you go for that glider rating. I didn't follow through but the 20+ flights I did puts power flying in a whole new dimension that in the long run will make you just that much better a pilot after soaring (if you don't know this already LOL)

Only reason I didn't follow through is the club flies on days like today, 100F, heat index of 112 and the Blanick is one of the best places to experience a greenhouse effect :-) Kitchen was too hot, so I bailed.

[Mxsmanic]

Ricky writes:

> You haven't changed one bit in that decade. Herein lies your problem,
> Mxsmanic.

If you are interested in talking about me, join my fan club and worship me
there. This group is not the place for it.

[Mxsmanic]

Morgans writes:

> And we still have people responding to MX. Any response to his posts assure
> his continued presence, which will surely result in the same ending as last
> time. Complete desolation, as posters run to the door.
>
> Anything short of complete shunning is not enough. MX must be as b*ss was,
> that his name will not be spoken, anytime.

Replying to me is no worse than talking about me for paragraphs at a time, as
you are.

If you want to join my fan club and worship me, you are welcome to do so.
However, this group is neither my fan club nor your therapy session, so please
try to stick to aviation.

[Dylan Smith[_2_]]

On 2012-07-24, Vaughn > wrote:
> I recently bought the new $199.00 Google Nexus7 8" pad. It is a
> candidate to replace the Ipad that I have been flying with. So far, I
> have confirmed that (unlike my Ipad) it has an excellent GPS built in.

The iPad 3 seems to have an excellent GPS. At least SkyDemon works from
an aisle seat on a Boeing 777 on an iPad 3.

Tablets in general will be the death knell for Garmin and their ilk
unless the dedicated aviation GPS makers really up their game. A tablet
with SkyDemon is so much better than anything I've used in dedicated
handheld GPS form, it's less expensive even with the subscription, and
it can also be used for other things too.

[RST Engineering[_2_]]

On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 07:56:25 -0700, Bug Dout >
wrote:

>"Morgans" > writes:
>
>> "Ron Wanttaja" wrote
>>
>> I'm still about, too... got the patch on my camera bag.
>>
>> Ron Wanttaja
>>

>
>What's needed are Usenet users who know how to use the filtering
>mechanism in their reader. Then they need depend only on themselves to
>avoid whoever and whatever they want.

Hey, Easter Sh!# we missed you at Honeck's Wednesday night party in
OSH this year. Ever coming back?

Jim

[Bug Dout]

Vaughn > writes:

> I recently bought the new $199.00 Google Nexus7 8" pad. It is a
> candidate to replace the Ipad that I have been flying with. So far, I
> have confirmed that (unlike my Ipad) it has an excellent GPS built
> in.

Sounds like your iPad is WiFi only, those models don't have a
GPS. Models with 3G/4G cell radios have GPS (apparently the GPS/cell
radio are on the same chipset and aren't manufactured separately)
--
By daily dying I have come to be.
--Theodore Roethke

[Vaughn]

On 8/4/2012 11:22 AM, Bug Dout wrote:

> Sounds like your iPad is WiFi only, those models don't have a
> GPS. Models with 3G/4G cell radios have GPS (apparently the GPS/cell
> radio are on the same chipset and aren't manufactured separately)

That is exactly correct. I use the "Bad Elf" GPS. That said, I don't
hear a lot of enthusiasm for the GPS installed in the 3G/4G IPads. Many
of those folks use various outboard GPSs also for aviation apps.

Vaughn

[Dylan Smith[_2_]]

On 2012-08-04, Vaughn > wrote:
> That is exactly correct. I use the "Bad Elf" GPS. That said, I don't
> hear a lot of enthusiasm for the GPS installed in the 3G/4G IPads.

I don't know about the 3G iPad (never had one), but the new iPad 3 (4G)
seems to have a very good GPS, at least on a par with any dedicated
handheld GPS that I've tried to date.

[Bug Dout]

Dylan Smith > writes:

> On 2012-08-04, Vaughn > wrote:
>> That is exactly correct. I use the "Bad Elf" GPS. That said, I don't
>> hear a lot of enthusiasm for the GPS installed in the 3G/4G IPads.
>
> I don't know about the 3G iPad (never had one), but the new iPad 3 (4G)
> seems to have a very good GPS, at least on a par with any dedicated
> handheld GPS that I've tried to date.

For VFR flying I won't hesitate to use any iPad's GPS. But it doesn't
have WAAS, so if you want better altitude or really precise horizontal,
and external GPS will be required.
--
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
~ Pablo Picasso

[MJ]

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 19:09:39 -0700, Bug Dout quoted in
:

> Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
> ~ Pablo Picasso

On the contrary, I find the programming of computers very useful in
helping me to better understand the question, as well as giving me a
repetitive programmed answer with different input data. <g>

[MJ]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:12:16 +0000, Dylan Smith wrote in
:

> Tablets in general will be the death knell for Garmin and their ilk
> unless the dedicated aviation GPS makers really up their game. A tablet
> with SkyDemon is so much better than anything I've used in dedicated
> handheld GPS form, it's less expensive even with the subscription, and
> it can also be used for other things too.

The 406 MHz ELBs will, in many many models, use instrument GPS for their
statement of position rather than a separate ELB built-in unit. Is there
a (removable) tablet that is FAA-approved for such installations?

[John Clear]

In article >, MJ > wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:12:16 +0000, Dylan Smith wrote in
>
>The 406 MHz ELBs will, in many many models, use instrument GPS for their
>statement of position rather than a separate ELB built-in unit. Is there
>a (removable) tablet that is FAA-approved for such installations?

GPS chips are so cheap these days (thanks to cell phones) that
pretty much all 406 MHz beacons have them these days. The ELTs
with external GPS are just a bad hack.

I carry a 406 MHz PLB since a 121.5 MHz ELT is just ballast and
the rentals I fly don't have 406 MHz ELTs. Smaller than my cell
phone, and includes GPS.

http://www.aeromedix.com/ACR-Resqlink-406MHz-Personal-Locator-Beacon-GPS.html

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Dylan Smith[_2_]]

On 2012-08-29, MJ > wrote:
> The 406 MHz ELBs will, in many many models, use instrument GPS for their
> statement of position rather than a separate ELB built-in unit. Is there
> a (removable) tablet that is FAA-approved for such installations?

Are handhelds approved for this purpose? Note we're talking about the
handheld market here, not the IFR approved TSO'd units.

In any case I would want a beacon with the GPS actually built into it.
Connectors are something that are likely to fail in a crash. (I also
don't live in the US - there's no requirement for an ELT or any such
device where I live, but since any cross country I do requires me to fly
over around 60nm of open water, we have a beacon that is portable and
floats. Not much point in having one permanently affixed to the airframe
as it would go down with the ship during a ditching).