Tacile Feedback?

[Ron Wanttaja]

I'm in the midst of working on my transponder install. I've got three
antenna cables running to the radio/transponder panel. Two are for the
Narco Nav/Comm and attach via BNC, the other used to be soldered to the
rack for the old transponder but will now get a BNC fitting as well.

Accidentally swapping the Nav/Comm antenna connectors made little
difference to the radio performance, but now the transponder cable will be
added to the mix and attaching the wrong cable to a device would be bad.

I'll add the appropriate labels to the ends of the cables, but most of the
time, I end up attaching the BNCs by feel. I was wondering if anyone had a
good suggestion for changing the tactile characteristics of the transponder
antenna cable.

In other words, when I reach back and grab the end, I'm going to want to
instantly know it's the transponder cable without being able to read the
label. Any suggestions?

Ron Wanttaja

[Rob Cherney]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 00:39:58 GMT, Ron Wanttaja >
wrote:

>In other words, when I reach back and grab the end, I'm going to want to
>instantly know it's the transponder cable without being able to read the
>label. Any suggestions?

How about putting a plastic cable tie on the coaxial cable just behind
the connector? In fact, you could put two cable ties on the NAV
antenna connector so you could discern the difference between it and
the COM connector.

Rob-
------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Cherney e-mail: rcherney(at)comcast(dot)net

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Rob Cherney > wrote:

> On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 00:39:58 GMT, Ron Wanttaja >
> wrote:
>
> >In other words, when I reach back and grab the end, I'm going to want to
> >instantly know it's the transponder cable without being able to read the
> >label. Any suggestions?
>
> How about putting a plastic cable tie on the coaxial cable just behind
> the connector? In fact, you could put two cable ties on the NAV
> antenna connector so you could discern the difference between it and
> the COM connector.
>
> Rob-
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Cherney e-mail: rcherney(at)comcast(dot)net

You could also file a flat area on the TXP cable.

BTW, it DOES make a difference if you hook up the comm antenna to the
nav and vise-versa. One is horizontilly polarized while the other is
vertically polarized. Both receiver sensitivity and xmit capability cna
be severely compromised.

[Michael Pilla]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
I'm in the midst of working on my transponder install. I've got three
antenna cables running to the radio/transponder panel. Two are for the
Narco Nav/Comm and attach via BNC, the other used to be soldered to the
rack for the old transponder but will now get a BNC fitting as well.

Accidentally swapping the Nav/Comm antenna connectors made little
difference to the radio performance, but now the transponder cable will be
added to the mix and attaching the wrong cable to a device would be bad.

I'll add the appropriate labels to the ends of the cables, but most of the
time, I end up attaching the BNCs by feel. I was wondering if anyone had a
good suggestion for changing the tactile characteristics of the transponder
antenna cable.

In other words, when I reach back and grab the end, I'm going to want to
instantly know it's the transponder cable without being able to read the
label. Any suggestions?

Ron Wanttaja

==========
Ron,
Unless you have diabetes or have heavily calloused fingertips, you will find
that the tips are quite sensitive to texture - look at the dots used for
Braille alphabet.

I would use simple heat shrink tubing. You could use a larger size that
will slip over the BNC since you don't care about how tightly it fits when
you shrink it. You are just interested in applying one, two, or three
pieces to establish a code that you can read w/fingertips.

Whatever you do, though, make sure the edge isn't all that sharp. I was
working by feel on someone's plane and cut my hand on the sharp end of a
nylon ty-wrap.

Let us know what you decide and how it works out.

Michael Pilla

[Mike Patterson]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 00:39:58 GMT, Ron Wanttaja >
wrote:

>I'm in the midst of working on my transponder install. I've got three
>antenna cables running to the radio/transponder panel. Two are for the
>Narco Nav/Comm and attach via BNC, the other used to be soldered to the
>rack for the old transponder but will now get a BNC fitting as well.
>
>Accidentally swapping the Nav/Comm antenna connectors made little
>difference to the radio performance, but now the transponder cable will be
>added to the mix and attaching the wrong cable to a device would be bad.
>
>I'll add the appropriate labels to the ends of the cables, but most of the
>time, I end up attaching the BNCs by feel. I was wondering if anyone had a
>good suggestion for changing the tactile characteristics of the transponder
>antenna cable.
>
>In other words, when I reach back and grab the end, I'm going to want to
>instantly know it's the transponder cable without being able to read the
>label. Any suggestions?
>
>Ron Wanttaja


Suggest 4-inch tie-wraps. If you have multiple cables in the same
area, use a different number of tie-wraps for each cable and write it
down somewhere. For more then 4 or so adjacent cables, you can use
spacing as an added factor.

I do this on computer cabling patch panels sometimes, works for me.

Mike

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

[BRO]

Ron,
Just use a bit of Heat shrink on the BNC ring - You'll feel it straight
away.

PS . the NAV and COM have different polarisation, so swapping them could
cause you no end of probs, use a cable tie on the top one, it'll give you
something better to grip.

Rgds,
Brett



"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
> I'm in the midst of working on my transponder install. I've got three
> antenna cables running to the radio/transponder panel. Two are for the
> Narco Nav/Comm and attach via BNC, the other used to be soldered to the
> rack for the old transponder but will now get a BNC fitting as well.
>
> Accidentally swapping the Nav/Comm antenna connectors made little
> difference to the radio performance, but now the transponder cable will be
> added to the mix and attaching the wrong cable to a device would be bad.
>
> I'll add the appropriate labels to the ends of the cables, but most of the
> time, I end up attaching the BNCs by feel. I was wondering if anyone had
a
> good suggestion for changing the tactile characteristics of the
transponder
> antenna cable.
>
> In other words, when I reach back and grab the end, I'm going to want to
> instantly know it's the transponder cable without being able to read the
> label. Any suggestions?
>
> Ron Wanttaja

[Morgans]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
> I'm in the midst of working on my transponder install. I've got three
> antenna cables running to the radio/transponder panel. Two are for the
> Narco Nav/Comm and attach via BNC, the other used to be soldered to the
> rack for the old transponder but will now get a BNC fitting as well.
>
> Accidentally swapping the Nav/Comm antenna connectors made little
> difference to the radio performance, but now the transponder cable will be
> added to the mix and attaching the wrong cable to a device would be bad.
>
> I'll add the appropriate labels to the ends of the cables, but most of the
> time, I end up attaching the BNCs by feel. I was wondering if anyone had
a
> good suggestion for changing the tactile characteristics of the
transponder
> antenna cable.
>
> In other words, when I reach back and grab the end, I'm going to want to
> instantly know it's the transponder cable without being able to read the
> label. Any suggestions?
>
> Ron Wanttaja

How about a couple blobs of JB Weld on the outside of the connector?
--
Jim in NC

[Kathryn & Stuart Fields]

If you choose to use cable ties, and that sounds like a good idea, use the
ones from Cobra. the cut off ends are flush and don't snag everything
including your fingers.
stu fields
"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
> I'm in the midst of working on my transponder install. I've got three
> antenna cables running to the radio/transponder panel. Two are for the
> Narco Nav/Comm and attach via BNC, the other used to be soldered to the
> rack for the old transponder but will now get a BNC fitting as well.
>
> Accidentally swapping the Nav/Comm antenna connectors made little
> difference to the radio performance, but now the transponder cable will be
> added to the mix and attaching the wrong cable to a device would be bad.
>
> I'll add the appropriate labels to the ends of the cables, but most of the
> time, I end up attaching the BNCs by feel. I was wondering if anyone had
a
> good suggestion for changing the tactile characteristics of the
transponder
> antenna cable.
>
> In other words, when I reach back and grab the end, I'm going to want to
> instantly know it's the transponder cable without being able to read the
> label. Any suggestions?
>
> Ron Wanttaja

[Tim Ward]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
> I'm in the midst of working on my transponder install. I've got three
> antenna cables running to the radio/transponder panel. Two are for the
> Narco Nav/Comm and attach via BNC, the other used to be soldered to the
> rack for the old transponder but will now get a BNC fitting as well.
>
> Accidentally swapping the Nav/Comm antenna connectors made little
> difference to the radio performance, but now the transponder cable will be
> added to the mix and attaching the wrong cable to a device would be bad.
>
> I'll add the appropriate labels to the ends of the cables, but most of the
> time, I end up attaching the BNCs by feel. I was wondering if anyone had
a
> good suggestion for changing the tactile characteristics of the
transponder
> antenna cable.
>
> In other words, when I reach back and grab the end, I'm going to want to
> instantly know it's the transponder cable without being able to read the
> label. Any suggestions?
>
> Ron Wanttaja

Get a little o-ring that just slips on and slide it on before attaching the
connector.
Put heat-shrink over both the cable and the o-ring.

You could do some coding with this -- no bumps vs 1 bump vs 2 bumps.

Tim Ward

[Richard Lamb]

Morgans wrote:
>
> "Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm in the midst of working on my transponder install. I've got three
> > antenna cables running to the radio/transponder panel. Two are for the
> > Narco Nav/Comm and attach via BNC, the other used to be soldered to the
> > rack for the old transponder but will now get a BNC fitting as well.
> >
> > Accidentally swapping the Nav/Comm antenna connectors made little
> > difference to the radio performance, but now the transponder cable will be
> > added to the mix and attaching the wrong cable to a device would be bad.
> >
> > I'll add the appropriate labels to the ends of the cables, but most of the
> > time, I end up attaching the BNCs by feel. I was wondering if anyone had
> a
> > good suggestion for changing the tactile characteristics of the
> transponder
> > antenna cable.
> >
> > In other words, when I reach back and grab the end, I'm going to want to
> > instantly know it's the transponder cable without being able to read the
> > label. Any suggestions?
> >
> > Ron Wanttaja
>
> How about a couple blobs of JB Weld on the outside of the connector?
> --
> Jim in NC

Shoe Goo.

[El Roto]

"Tim Ward" > wrote in message
...
> Get a little o-ring that just slips on and slide it on before attaching
the
> connector.
> Put heat-shrink over both the cable and the o-ring.
>
> You could do some coding with this -- no bumps vs 1 bump vs 2 bumps.
>
> Tim Ward

I like this. I was going to suggest a thin strip of 3M stair tape (like
wing-step tape) under the shrink wrap as a braille-lite device but the
o-ring is simpler and much more versatile.

I'll be stealing this idea immediately. :)

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 01:19:22 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
> wrote:

>BTW, it DOES make a difference if you hook up the comm antenna to the
>nav and vise-versa. One is horizontilly polarized while the other is
>vertically polarized. Both receiver sensitivity and xmit capability cna
>be severely compromised.

Yes, but: The Narco "Comm" antenna is the transmitter, and the "Nav"
antenna provides the signal for the receivers for BOTH the Nav and the Comm
channels. The Comm receiver is *supposed* to use horizontally-polarized
antenna. I know, it ain't right optimum. But that's the way Narco wants
it.

The original two antennas in the airplanes were coax dipoles with baluns.
Both horizontally oriented, both located UNDER the aluminum-covered
turtledeck. They were truly duplicates. And they worked quite well, for
almost 20 years.

One crapped out a few years back, and that's when I built the surface-mount
antenna described in my "Antenna Madness" posting about three years ago.

So I've got one horizontal, and one vertical. I try to hook the old dipole
(the horizontal one) to the receiver and the new vertical one to the
transmitter. I actually run the coaxes in two pieces, with the connector
right by the seat, so I can switch antennas easily if I detect a problem.
This is handy for troubleshooting...a couple of times, I've noticed that I
wasn't receiving signals very strong, or folks complained that they
couldn't hear me very well. I've been able to quickly swap antennas and
compare.

Ron Wanttaja

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:40:32 -0800, "Tim Ward" >
wrote:

>Get a little o-ring that just slips on and slide it on before attaching the
>connector.
>Put heat-shrink over both the cable and the o-ring.

Oooo, I *like* this one. Smooth and elegant.

I'm kinda in a anti-tie-wrap mood today, so am not too inclined to use them
for the tactile feedback. I think y'all will understand why:

Since I had to pull my avionics box to install the new transponder in it, I
decided to try to sort out the existing wiring.

Scary. REAL scary. I cut off at least a dozen tie-wraps getting things
opened enough so that I could at least look it over. There was one wire
about eight inches long that had *four* crimp splices along its length.
There were three separate connectors between the power bus and the old
transponder, including one that had extra wires S'ed atop it and the whole
thing covered with a plastic spiral wire loom (in other words, I didn't
even *know* there was a connector there until I'd unwrapped everything.

I'd post pictures, but don't want to give Jim Weir a heart attack. :-)

The good news was that the main connector running from the power bus had
masking tape with the color assignments for the wires marked on it (still
legible after ~10 years). The bad news is that I had to get used to the
WHITE wire being the ground.

The encoder is located about eight inches from the transponder.
Unfortunately, the transponder had come with a full yard of cable to the
encoder, and the installer left it all in place. Some extra was needed;
eight inches as the crow flies would take it right across the rudder pedal
tunnel. The cable has to go up about four inches to a top-fuselage
crossmember, cross the tunnel area, and down about six on the left cockpit
sidewall. To "use up" the excess cable, the installer ran it up to the
crossbar, RIGHT almost to the right cockpit sidewall, then loop all the way
back to the left sidewall and down. Tie-wrapped in place, of course.

Even more fun, a pair of 18-gauge wires were tie-wrapped to the transponder
cable, splitting off on that furthest right loop. I traced it to the
bottom of the instrument panel, and it seemed to disappear into the headset
cluster. I traced the OTHER ends, and it bypassed the radio
completely...not part of the headset, then. I finally found the far ends
of the wire. They terminate in some sort of power jack that I didn't even
know I had. Think the previous owner used it to power up his LORAN.

In all honesty, I don't completely blame the installer, and even must put
some of the blame on myself. Until last September, it was almost
impossible to access the electronics on my airplane. All of this wire
bundle is far forward of the seat, in the "tunnel" of the forward cockpit.
Either you had to sit in the seat and jackknife forward (the electronics
were around your ankles), or remove a floor access panel forward of the
area and try to reach into the fuselage; when sitting on the ground, the
area is just within arm's reach. Neither was comfortable for more than a
minute or two. I had to go through this when I had to replace my Comm
radio when the frequency standards changed, hence the new Comm radio
connections were done expediently if not necessarily neatly.

This changed last September, when the plane was going to be laid up for a
while for a dry-rot repair and I figured I'd fix a few other things at the
same time. I posted the whole horrid tale to the Fly Baby mailing list,
but, in short, I cut out a 1' x 3' section of belly fabric and installed an
aluminum inspection panel. Not only does this give me access to areas of
the cockpit I could barely reach before, but I can now sit on the seat
longerons and dangle my legs out the hole in the belly. Makes it a LOT
easier to reach the electrical stuff.

The only drawback is people keep yelling "Yabba-dabbo-do" when they see me
sitting in the airplane with my feet touching the ground.

Ron "Do the foot-launch rules still apply" Wanttaja

[Morgans]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote

Not only does this give me access to areas of
> the cockpit I could barely reach before, but I can now sit on the seat
> longerons and dangle my legs out the hole in the belly. Makes it a LOT
> easier to reach the electrical stuff.
>
> The only drawback is people keep yelling "Yabba-dabbo-do" when they see me
> sitting in the airplane with my feet touching the ground.
>
> Ron "Do the foot-launch rules still apply" Wanttaja

LOL

I love your writing. When you gonna write another book?
--
Jim in NC


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[Ron Wanttaja]

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:56:31 -0500, "Morgans" >
wrote:

>I love your writing. When you gonna write another book?

Thanks! Writing has been taking second fiddle lately, since I've been so
busy at work (it's tough to come home and face the computer after spending
all day on it). However, both KITPLANE CONSTRUCTION and AIRPLANE OWNERSHIP
are due for new editions, so I'll probably be working on those. Been
holding off to when all the Light Sport Aircraft stuff is official.

I've been posting my Fly Baby stuff to the Fly Baby mailing list instead of
RAH, but some of it gets archived on my web page. Go to:

http://www.wanttaja.com/flybaby

....and click the "Stories" link. A couple of RAH denizens feature in one
such piece, at:

http://www.wanttaja.com/flybaby/dunderbirds.HTM

Ron Wanttaja

[John Ammeter]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 20:08:19 GMT, Ron Wanttaja
> wrote:

>On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:56:31 -0500, "Morgans" >
>wrote:
>
>>I love your writing. When you gonna write another book?
>
>Thanks! Writing has been taking second fiddle lately, since I've been so
>busy at work (it's tough to come home and face the computer after spending
>all day on it). However, both KITPLANE CONSTRUCTION and AIRPLANE OWNERSHIP
>are due for new editions, so I'll probably be working on those. Been
>holding off to when all the Light Sport Aircraft stuff is official.
>
>I've been posting my Fly Baby stuff to the Fly Baby mailing list instead of
>RAH, but some of it gets archived on my web page. Go to:
>
>http://www.wanttaja.com/flybaby
>
>...and click the "Stories" link. A couple of RAH denizens feature in one
>such piece, at:
>
>http://www.wanttaja.com/flybaby/dunderbirds.HTM
>
>Ron Wanttaja
>

Feature???

I'm not sure "feature" would be the appropriate word but...

>My last mistake of the day happened a few minutes later. John Ousterhout and John Ammeter came around, and complimented me on the display. I was feeling a bit better about our effort, by then. "Maybe they had to use a wide-angle lens to shoot our picture," I said proudly, "But our formation…."
>
>I didn't get any farther. On the phrase "our formation," both Oyster and Ampmeter starting howling with laughter.
>
>Some friends *I* got. :-)
>
>Ron "Dunderbird One" Wanttaja


I do have to say that our response to Ron's use of the word
"formation" was completely unrehearsed and totally
spontaneous and, I might add, we both burst out in laughter
at the same instant....

Formation?? Much more like "same day, same destination"...

John A