Tamiflu PIREP

[Roger Long]

I had sudden onset of flu like symptoms Tuesday evening and went to the
doctor Wednesday morning. She said she didn't think it was flu but they are
jumping hard on any possible case since it hasn't shown up in our area yet.
She also gave me "Tamiflu" to take. This is the medication that can cut the
duration of the illness by a couple of days if given early.

I spent the centennial of flight sick as a dog with fever and obvious virus.
Thursday I gradually got better and felt quite human by evening. I woke up
this morning (Friday) feeling groggy but by mid morning was bounding with
energy and ran around all day feeling almost euphoric. Very, very different
from the usual "run over by a truck" feeling after being as sick as I was.
Great stuff. Of course it probably was just a mild (relative to flu) virus
and Tamiflu was overkill.

However, looking back at the day, I realize I've done a number of very
spaced out and stupid things. I am really glad I didn't decide to go
flying. I've been sort of in the high altitude without oxygen frame of mind
but buzzing around at high speed. Almost bent the car as well.

There isn't too much experience with this stuff yet and you can't draw any
conclusions from an individual case. Still, this illness and recovery was
unlike anything I've experienced. If you use Tamiflu and feel great, take a
few moments for a really thorough self assessment before you fly. The body
may recover quite a bit before the mind.

--
Roger Long

[G.R. Patterson III]

Roger Long wrote:
>
> If you use Tamiflu and feel great, take a
> few moments for a really thorough self assessment before you fly.

Thanks for the warning. I've been floored since Tuesday by something
like this, and
might well have been suckered if I took it upon myself toi visit the
doc. The
weather has been fantastic (though a bit cold).

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually
said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Roger Long]

I wouldn't not use it on the basis of my single experience. You should be
cautious after any illness.

I don't think I was any less competent yesterday than I would have been in
the dragged out haze that usually follows an illness like this. I just felt
so good I didn't realize it still wasn't quite with it.

I think the stuff is probably a tremendous advance in medical science and
would certainly try to get it again. I just would adjust my flying plans
accordingly.
--
Roger Long

G.R. Patterson III > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Roger Long wrote:
> >
> > If you use Tamiflu and feel great, take a
> > few moments for a really thorough self assessment before you fly.
>
> Thanks for the warning. I've been floored since Tuesday by something
> like this, and
> might well have been suckered if I took it upon myself toi visit the
> doc. The
> weather has been fantastic (though a bit cold).
>
> George Patterson
> Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually
> said is
> "Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Dennis O'Connor]

The Influenza bug has been moving across the country from west to east...
Just saw my first true influenza bug her in the mitten of Michigan,
yesterday... Temp 105.9 F <I was impressed he hadn't seized>, limp as a
dish rag, cherry red lips, etc... Sent him to the ER for fluids and
evaluation... He wound up going home after some 8 hours of hydration and
treatment... I expect to see a bunch more of this now... Gonna be a lot of
sick kids for xmas...
Denny
"Roger Long" m> wrote in
message ...
> I had sudden onset of flu like symptoms Tuesday evening and went to the
> doctor Wednesday morning. She said she didn't think it was flu but they
are
> jumping hard on any possible case since it hasn't shown up in our area
yet.
> She also gave me "Tamiflu" to take. This is the medication that can cut
the
> duration of the illness by a couple of days if given early.
>
> I spent the centennial of flight sick as a dog with fever and obvious
virus.
> Thursday I gradually got better and felt quite human by evening. I woke
up
> this morning (Friday) feeling groggy but by mid morning was bounding with
> energy and ran around all day feeling almost euphoric. Very, very
different
> from the usual "run over by a truck" feeling after being as sick as I was.
> Great stuff. Of course it probably was just a mild (relative to flu)
virus
> and Tamiflu was overkill.
>
> However, looking back at the day, I realize I've done a number of very
> spaced out and stupid things. I am really glad I didn't decide to go
> flying. I've been sort of in the high altitude without oxygen frame of
mind
> but buzzing around at high speed. Almost bent the car as well.
>
> There isn't too much experience with this stuff yet and you can't draw any
> conclusions from an individual case. Still, this illness and recovery was
> unlike anything I've experienced. If you use Tamiflu and feel great, take
a
> few moments for a really thorough self assessment before you fly. The
body
> may recover quite a bit before the mind.
>
> --
> Roger Long
>
>

[David Rind]

Roger Long wrote:
> I think the stuff is probably a tremendous advance in medical science and
> would certainly try to get it again.

Or, for a fraction of the cost (particularly important since your
doctor did not apparently think you had influenza, although based
on your story I'm not sure why not), you could have taken amantadine,
which has been around for about 40 years and also works well against
influenza A (the strain that is currently causing most of the problems).

--
David Rind

[Roger Long]

Dennis,

Since you're a doctor, I'd be interested in your take on my experience.
Shooting in very dim light I know but do you think the Tamiflu could be
related to my rather odd recovery from what was probably an intestinal
virus? Can you tell us how Tamiflu works?

--
Roger Long

[David Rind]

Roger Long wrote:
> Dennis,
>
> Since you're a doctor, I'd be interested in your take on my experience.
> Shooting in very dim light I know but do you think the Tamiflu could be
> related to my rather odd recovery from what was probably an intestinal
> virus? Can you tell us how Tamiflu works?
>
> --
> Roger Long

I'm not Dennis, but if you did not have influenza, it is incredibly
unlikely that Tamiflu (oseltamivir) had any effect on the virus.
Oseltamivir is a neuraminidase inhibitor -- neuraminidase is
an important enzyme for influenza that I believe is pretty unique
to this particular virus.

Intestinal bugs frequently only last a day or two, so almost anything
you take for them might seem to be working over a 24 hour period.

--
David Rind

[Viperdoc]

If you had any intestinal symptoms, by definition you did not have the flu,
which is characterized primarily by fever and upper respiratory symptoms.

[Chris Schmelzer]

In article >,
David Rind > wrote:

> Roger Long wrote:
> > I think the stuff is probably a tremendous advance in medical science and
> > would certainly try to get it again.
>
> Or, for a fraction of the cost (particularly important since your
> doctor did not apparently think you had influenza, although based
> on your story I'm not sure why not), you could have taken amantadine,
> which has been around for about 40 years and also works well against
> influenza A (the strain that is currently causing most of the problems).


But is not, formally at least, approved for prophylaxis as Tamiflu is,
but I completely agree

Tamiflu 5 days $70
Amantidine 5 days $1.60

(wholesale of course)

[Roger Long]

That's what I have though and believed. What threw my doctor and myself off
was the fact that I was feeling very short of breath. When I breathed in,
it was like I hadn't gotten any oxygen and couldn't wait to get the air out
and take another breath. My lungs weren't congested. Thinking back, it was
probably some CNS effect from the toxin that was making my airways reactive.
I was very sensitive to lights, sound, etc.

I also think the impending flu thing had a lot to do with it. I realize now
some of the pressure doctors live with. How would you like to be the one
that let Patient Zero for you community go home with the usual "It will
probably clear up in a day or two, call me if it doesn't." She was being
very conservative but this flu is killing children.

For the conspiracy theorists (No comment on believability, I just pass it
along): Latest urban legend is that the CDC knows a really bad pandemic or
epidemic is coming but is responding to pressure to downplay it until after
the Christmas shopping season so the economy doesn't take a hit that might
help put a democrat in the White House. Really ugly thought because
encouraging all those people to go out and mingle as they pump money into
the Bush re-election scenario will spread the germs around wonderfully.

I went to the "Return of the King" with my kids and their friends. Even
though I was clearly better, my wife made me drive separately and sit a row
away "Just in case". The people behind them hacked and gobbed through the
whole show:)

--
Roger Long

G.R. Patterson III > wrote in message
...
>
>
> David Rind wrote:
> >
> > Intestinal bugs frequently only last a day or two, so almost anything
> > you take for them might seem to be working over a 24 hour period.
>
> According to my microbiology professor years ago, "24 hour bugs" are
invariably
> some form of food poisoning.
>
> George Patterson
> Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually
said is
> "Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[G.R. Patterson III]

David Rind wrote:
>
> Intestinal bugs frequently only last a day or two, so almost anything
> you take for them might seem to be working over a 24 hour period.

According to my microbiology professor years ago, "24 hour bugs" are invariably
some form of food poisoning.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[David Rind]

G.R. Patterson III wrote:
> According to my microbiology professor years ago, "24 hour bugs" are invariably
> some form of food poisoning.

Your microbiology professor was wrong (I'd give you a reference, but
that would be getting even more off topic for r.a.p!). However 48 hours
is more typical for viral gastroenteritis. Many times, though, a
majority of the symptoms are improved after shorter periods.

--
David Rind

[David Rind]

Viperdoc wrote:
> If you had any intestinal symptoms, by definition you did not have the flu,
> which is characterized primarily by fever and upper respiratory symptoms.

That's just not true (the first half). Gastrointestinal symptoms are
usually not a big part of influenza, and if they occur at all usually
occur somewhat later in the course of the illness than other symptoms,
but it hardly is a part of the definition of influenza that you not
have GI symptoms. Perhaps you are thinking of someone's case
definition for reporting purposes?

--
David Rind

[David Rind]

Chris Schmelzer wrote:
> But is not, formally at least, approved for prophylaxis as Tamiflu is,
> but I completely agree

We were actually talking about using amantadine for treatment (original
poster was ill when he went to his doctor), but at least in the US
amantadine is FDA approved for both prophylaxis and treatment of
influenza A.

--
David Rind

[Viperdoc]

I in fact was not reporting some generic case definition of flu symptoms,
nor someone's personal anecdote. Most people who say they have had the flu
likely have had another viral illness, particularly when GI symptoms are
their main complaint.

Influenza has most frequently been described as an illness characterized by
the abrupt onset of systemic symptoms such as headache, feverishness,
myalgia, or malaise, accompanied by respiratory tract symptoms, particularly
cough and sore throat. GI symptoms are simply not a major hallmark of
influenza.

Since this is an aviation newsgroup and not a medical one, I was trying to
make the point that most people who complain that they had the "flu", with a
lot of nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, likely did not have influenza, which
is primarily a respiratory illness.

[Morgans]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
> I in fact was not reporting some generic case definition of flu symptoms,
> nor someone's personal anecdote. Most people who say they have had the flu
> likely have had another viral illness, particularly when GI symptoms are
> their main complaint.
>
> Influenza has most frequently been described as an illness characterized
by
> the abrupt onset of systemic symptoms such as headache, feverishness,
> myalgia, or malaise, accompanied by respiratory tract symptoms,
particularly
> cough and sore throat. GI symptoms are simply not a major hallmark of
> influenza.
>
> Since this is an aviation newsgroup and not a medical one, I was trying to
> make the point that most people who complain that they had the "flu", with
a
> lot of nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, likely did not have influenza,
which
> is primarily a respiratory illness.
>
>

I recently did have the flue, as was confirmed by a test, which involved
sticking a swab into my sinus cavity, and running some test (a flu kit, they
called it). Also had a sinus infection.

The tami flu, (or other variations) helped speed my recovery greatly, as
compared to my wife, who gave it to me. It is expensive, but cheap when
compared to missed time at work. This current variation is a rough one, so
I advise any person getting it, see your doctor within 48 hrs of the first
symptoms, or treatment will not be an option.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Morgans" >
>
> The tami flu, (or other variations) helped speed my recovery greatly,

The brand I took was flumadine
--
> Jim in NC
>
>

[David Dyer-Bennet]

"Viperdoc" > writes:

> If you had any intestinal symptoms, by definition you did not have the flu,
> which is characterized primarily by fever and upper respiratory symptoms.

Terminology drift in progress! When I was a kid, if it was
respiratory symptoms, it was a "cold". If there were intestinal
symptoms, it was the "flu".
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <noguns-nomoney.com> <www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <dragaera.info/>