"Homeland Security" in Iowa

[Jay Honeck]

So we took my 26 year old, blonde, blue-eyed, 6' 4" nephew back to the Cedar
Rapids airport last night, to catch his red-eye flight back to Seattle. He
was as sick as a dog (flu?) and weak as a kitten, but go he must, so off he
went...

The "Eastern Iowa Airport" is a pretty sleepy place on a Sunday night --
even the airport bar was closed (gasp!) -- and there were MAYBE 50 people in
the entire airport terminal, including employees. Since we were no longer
allowed to go to the gate with him, we said our goodbyes at the entrance to
the security checkpoint.

This area was staffed by TEN (10!) uniformed TSA guys, waiting to pounce on
the terrorists who were (no doubt) thronging into the heartland. My nephew
strolled through the X-ray machine, passed uneventfully, and then put his
single carry-on bag (a back-pack) on the conveyor...

....from our distance it was obvious that the TSA guys were suddenly tense,
and -- although we were beyond earshot -- it was easy to see that SOMETHING
was wrong. My nephew, weak with flu, stood staring numbly at the people who
had suddenly gathered around him. He was obviously confused.

Soon he was taken to the side. Within 30 seconds two uniformed police
officers strode purposefully past us, coming from another part of the
airport but obviously on their way to see my nephew. The other officers
were holding something that we couldn't quite see, and were speaking quite
seriously to him, all the while keeping him surrounded by a minimum of four
TSA guards.

After 10 minutes of this, they took him into an area we could not see. With
visions of rubber hoses and bright lights, we paced back and forth, unable
to do ANYTHING to help.

What could it be? He certainly fit the terrorist "threat profile" -- for
the "Swedish Liberation Army", perhaps. Since, to our knowledge, Sweden
had not been named an "Axis of Evil" country, we couldn't fathom what had
triggered this response.

After an interminable five minutes he emerged and gave us a weary wave as he
headed off to his gate. Of course we were unable to find out what had gone
wrong, or why he had been detained -- the TSA folks simply would not tell
us, and my nephew had no cell phone.

We drove home wondering what the hell my nephew could have done?

Today my sister called, to drop the other shoe. Turns out my OTHER sister
(his aunt) had given my poor nephew a wrapped Xmas present, to give to his
Dad. Inside this present was a "Leatherman Multi-tool" -- obviously
something that could be used as a weapon! My poor nephew had NO idea what
was in this wrapped gift, and my sister had assumed that he would carry the
present in his "checked" baggage -- not in his "carry-on" baggage. Because
he didn't know if it was breakable, he had opted to carry the present where
it could not be broken.

So, he is now on a permanent list of "potential terrorist threats", is being
threatened with a $50.00 fine, was put through an awful situation over which
he had no control or knowledge, and my sister feels thoroughly awful. He
barely made his flight, and (of course) his Dad didn't receive his Xmas
present, since the TSA confiscated it.

And the final irony of the whole story: the "Leatherman" tool, as with so
many things these days, was sealed in one of those plastic containers that
(you guessed it!) requires a knife or scissors to open...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[rip]

"Has your baggage been in your control the entire time?"
"Has anyone asked you to carry anything in your baggage for them?"

I fly on business constantly, and forgot about a swiss army knife deep
in the bowels of my carry-on. By the time they had finished X-raying
that bag, I swear it glowed in the dark. Some TSA emplyoyee is now the
proud owner of my knife, but mea culpa for having it!

Jay Honeck wrote:
> So we took my 26 year old, blonde, blue-eyed, 6' 4" nephew back to the Cedar
> Rapids airport last night, to catch his red-eye flight back to Seattle. He
> was as sick as a dog (flu?) and weak as a kitten, but go he must, so off he
> went...
>
> The "Eastern Iowa Airport" is a pretty sleepy place on a Sunday night --
> even the airport bar was closed (gasp!) -- and there were MAYBE 50 people in
> the entire airport terminal, including employees. Since we were no longer
> allowed to go to the gate with him, we said our goodbyes at the entrance to
> the security checkpoint.
>
> This area was staffed by TEN (10!) uniformed TSA guys, waiting to pounce on
> the terrorists who were (no doubt) thronging into the heartland. My nephew
> strolled through the X-ray machine, passed uneventfully, and then put his
> single carry-on bag (a back-pack) on the conveyor...
>
> ...from our distance it was obvious that the TSA guys were suddenly tense,
> and -- although we were beyond earshot -- it was easy to see that SOMETHING
> was wrong. My nephew, weak with flu, stood staring numbly at the people who
> had suddenly gathered around him. He was obviously confused.
>
> Soon he was taken to the side. Within 30 seconds two uniformed police
> officers strode purposefully past us, coming from another part of the
> airport but obviously on their way to see my nephew. The other officers
> were holding something that we couldn't quite see, and were speaking quite
> seriously to him, all the while keeping him surrounded by a minimum of four
> TSA guards.
>
> After 10 minutes of this, they took him into an area we could not see. With
> visions of rubber hoses and bright lights, we paced back and forth, unable
> to do ANYTHING to help.
>
> What could it be? He certainly fit the terrorist "threat profile" -- for
> the "Swedish Liberation Army", perhaps. Since, to our knowledge, Sweden
> had not been named an "Axis of Evil" country, we couldn't fathom what had
> triggered this response.
>
> After an interminable five minutes he emerged and gave us a weary wave as he
> headed off to his gate. Of course we were unable to find out what had gone
> wrong, or why he had been detained -- the TSA folks simply would not tell
> us, and my nephew had no cell phone.
>
> We drove home wondering what the hell my nephew could have done?
>
> Today my sister called, to drop the other shoe. Turns out my OTHER sister
> (his aunt) had given my poor nephew a wrapped Xmas present, to give to his
> Dad. Inside this present was a "Leatherman Multi-tool" -- obviously
> something that could be used as a weapon! My poor nephew had NO idea what
> was in this wrapped gift, and my sister had assumed that he would carry the
> present in his "checked" baggage -- not in his "carry-on" baggage. Because
> he didn't know if it was breakable, he had opted to carry the present where
> it could not be broken.
>
> So, he is now on a permanent list of "potential terrorist threats", is being
> threatened with a $50.00 fine, was put through an awful situation over which
> he had no control or knowledge, and my sister feels thoroughly awful. He
> barely made his flight, and (of course) his Dad didn't receive his Xmas
> present, since the TSA confiscated it.
>
> And the final irony of the whole story: the "Leatherman" tool, as with so
> many things these days, was sealed in one of those plastic containers that
> (you guessed it!) requires a knife or scissors to open...

[Jim]

I'm beginning to think that we all demand to fly commercially.... NAKED! It
would make things so much easier.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:84_Hb.6418$xX.15221@attbi_s02...
> So we took my 26 year old, blonde, blue-eyed, 6' 4" nephew back to the
Cedar
> Rapids airport last night, to catch his red-eye flight back to Seattle.
He
> was as sick as a dog (flu?) and weak as a kitten, but go he must, so off
he
> went...
>
> The "Eastern Iowa Airport" is a pretty sleepy place on a Sunday night --
> even the airport bar was closed (gasp!) -- and there were MAYBE 50 people
in
> the entire airport terminal, including employees. Since we were no longer
> allowed to go to the gate with him, we said our goodbyes at the entrance
to
> the security checkpoint.
>
> This area was staffed by TEN (10!) uniformed TSA guys, waiting to pounce
on
> the terrorists who were (no doubt) thronging into the heartland. My
nephew
> strolled through the X-ray machine, passed uneventfully, and then put his
> single carry-on bag (a back-pack) on the conveyor...
>
> ...from our distance it was obvious that the TSA guys were suddenly tense,
> and -- although we were beyond earshot -- it was easy to see that
SOMETHING
> was wrong. My nephew, weak with flu, stood staring numbly at the people
who
> had suddenly gathered around him. He was obviously confused.
>
> Soon he was taken to the side. Within 30 seconds two uniformed police
> officers strode purposefully past us, coming from another part of the
> airport but obviously on their way to see my nephew. The other officers
> were holding something that we couldn't quite see, and were speaking quite
> seriously to him, all the while keeping him surrounded by a minimum of
four
> TSA guards.
>
> After 10 minutes of this, they took him into an area we could not see.
With
> visions of rubber hoses and bright lights, we paced back and forth, unable
> to do ANYTHING to help.
>
> What could it be? He certainly fit the terrorist "threat profile" -- for
> the "Swedish Liberation Army", perhaps. Since, to our knowledge, Sweden
> had not been named an "Axis of Evil" country, we couldn't fathom what had
> triggered this response.
>
> After an interminable five minutes he emerged and gave us a weary wave as
he
> headed off to his gate. Of course we were unable to find out what had
gone
> wrong, or why he had been detained -- the TSA folks simply would not tell
> us, and my nephew had no cell phone.
>
> We drove home wondering what the hell my nephew could have done?
>
> Today my sister called, to drop the other shoe. Turns out my OTHER sister
> (his aunt) had given my poor nephew a wrapped Xmas present, to give to his
> Dad. Inside this present was a "Leatherman Multi-tool" -- obviously
> something that could be used as a weapon! My poor nephew had NO idea
what
> was in this wrapped gift, and my sister had assumed that he would carry
the
> present in his "checked" baggage -- not in his "carry-on" baggage.
Because
> he didn't know if it was breakable, he had opted to carry the present
where
> it could not be broken.
>
> So, he is now on a permanent list of "potential terrorist threats", is
being
> threatened with a $50.00 fine, was put through an awful situation over
which
> he had no control or knowledge, and my sister feels thoroughly awful. He
> barely made his flight, and (of course) his Dad didn't receive his Xmas
> present, since the TSA confiscated it.
>
> And the final irony of the whole story: the "Leatherman" tool, as with so
> many things these days, was sealed in one of those plastic containers that
> (you guessed it!) requires a knife or scissors to open...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[John Harlow]

> We drove home wondering what the hell my nephew could have done?
> So, he is now on a permanent list of "potential terrorist threats",

Him and 5 million others (as of almost a year ago)...
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/03/10/airport.security.ap/

However, I can't imagine someone this day and age carrying a box they have
no idea what's inside as carry-on.

[Jay Honeck]

> However, I can't imagine someone this day and age carrying a box they have
> no idea what's inside as carry-on.

Yeah, that was dumb. But he flies commercially maybe every other year, so
he just wasn't aware of the possible problems that could cause.

Had he told any of us what he was doing, we could have warned him...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Teacherjh]

>>
Some TSA emplyoyee is now the
proud owner of my knife, but mea culpa for having it!
<<

It's a sad day when we so easily assume the blame for not following idiotic
rules set up by bureaucrats who are working against us in the guise of secuity.

It's not your fault for having it.

It's the administration's fault for not allowing it.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[EDR]

In article >, Jim
> wrote:

> I'm beginning to think that we all demand to fly commercially.... NAKED! It
> would make things so much easier.

Naw... a french woman stripped down to her undies at the checkpoint
here in Columbus last summer and got arrested.

[EDR]

In article >, Nomen Nescio
]> wrote:

> I dread the day they catch a terrorist with a couple pounds of C-4
> concealed....uh.....rectally.

Hey, the CIA made listening devices to look like tiger turds and seeded
the trails of Southeast Asia with them... it's possible.

[Jim Fisher]

"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message news:bspvq4
> also read: http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/04/open-mikulan.php

A couple of exerpts from that article follows:

"I thought at that stage something was quite wrong," Smethurst says, "so I
asked the man with the coffee if there was some problem."

"I will tell you when there's a problem," he abruptly snapped, according to
Smethurst. Then he pointed to a nearby sign:

Your Silence Is Appreciated"


Jim here: Umm, Bullsuqa . . . No, bullsquat ain't enough. I call bull****
on this one. The article was interesting up until this point. I will
refuse to believe that you will ever see this sign on any wall of any
government facility ever in the United States of America. The article gets
even more unbeleviable from here, though:


" As Smethurst's inked fingers were rolled onto the government form, she
noticed its heading: "Criminal." Eventually she was escorted under armed
guard to a pay phone to make the call she vainly believed would clear
everything up and allow her to stay in the country. (...). She was then
handcuffed and marched through the airport to another terminal, where LAX's
main detention center is located. After the phone call she pleaded for
food, having now been away from home nearly 24 hours. Smethurst offered
money for a snack to be brought to her - French fries, potato chips,
anything - but was refused. "


I would be most confident that most of this "story" is made up of complete
lies and hyperbole. If there is any truth at all to the story, I believe
the goofy author obvious did something silly like not registering with the
I-visa program or packing a leatherman in the carry-on or perhaps just
making made a complete ass of herself at the gate.

Don't believe everything you read, Martin.

--
Jim Fisher

[Dennis O'Connor]

One reality is that in the hands of someone young, strong, and willing to
die, a Leatherman tool is a weapon when he is the only one so armed in an
enclosed cabin...

The other reality is that as a nation we no longer have any balls... We
cower at the mere threat that someone may try to hurt us... I am ashamed of
my country....

Denny

"Jay Honeck" > > So, he is now on a permanent list
of "potential terrorist threats", is being
> threatened with a $50.00 fine, was put through an awful situation over
which
> he had no control or knowledge

[Rosspilot]

>We
>cower at the mere threat that someone may try to hurt us... I am ashamed of
>my country....

I'm more embarrassed than ashamed. But you make a valid point.

We are terrorizing ourselves . . . check out Fox News--they have "Terror
Alert--HIGH" permanently on the lower left corner of the screen.

I refuse to be terrorized. I don't care what the hell they threaten to do,
what the intelligence "buzz" is, or anything else.

I suggest everyone simply stop being so afraid and we can declare the War on
Terror over and get back to the really important things--like Michael Jackson
f'rinstance. :-)


www.Rosspilot.com

[Jürgen Exner]

Jay Honeck wrote:
[...story about relative being searched by security personal]
> Today my sister called, to drop the other shoe. Turns out my OTHER
> sister (his aunt) had given my poor nephew a wrapped Xmas present, to
> give to his Dad. Inside this present was a "Leatherman Multi-tool"
> -- obviously something that could be used as a weapon! My poor
> nephew had NO idea what was in this wrapped gift,

Then I guess your nephew lied when he was asked if he had packed the
suitcase himself and if anyone has given him anything to carry on the
airplane...

All in all I would call it a valuable lesson in why it is important to
answer questions truthfully.

jue

[Robert Moore]

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote

> The other reality is that as a nation we no longer have any
> balls... We cower at the mere threat that someone may try to
> hurt us... I am ashamed of my country....

Denny...a thought that we share!

Bob Moore

[Ron Natalie]

"EDR" > wrote in message ...
> In article >, Nomen Nescio
> ]> wrote:
>
> > I dread the day they catch a terrorist with a couple pounds of C-4
> > concealed....uh.....rectally.
>
> Hey, the CIA made listening devices to look like tiger turds and seeded
> the trails of Southeast Asia with them... it's possible.

You don't even have to go as far as the CIA. The personnel detection device
camouflaged as a pile of crap is standard US Army issue. I remember reading
about it in the Preventive Maintenance comic books.

[Andrew Rowley]

"Jim Fisher" > wrote:

>I would be most confident that most of this "story" is made up of complete
>lies and hyperbole. If there is any truth at all to the story, I believe
>the goofy author obvious did something silly like not registering with the
>I-visa program or packing a leatherman in the carry-on or perhaps just
>making made a complete ass of herself at the gate.

The article says she did not have the I-visa. I don't have any
knowledge of the treatment after she was denied entry, but the story
doesn't sound like it was made up to me.

I almost had the same thing happen to me flying into Heathrow. The
reason? I was only staying 4 weeks but had an open dated ticket. (The
reason for the ticket was that I was on airline staff travel.) That
was almost enough to get me straight back on the plane home again. I
had a hard time convincing the immigration guy that I was legitimate.
I am sure the USA or indeed Australia is no different to the UK.

The immigration people can allow or deny entry without any real
evidence, and there is no appeal. It is basically done on the
judgement or opinion of the immigration officer. As well as my
incident I have heard a number of similar ones where people were
denied entry for offences such as trying to enter as a tourist but
having work related items in their luggage. A good reason not to take
work with you if you go on holiday.

As for the handcuffs etc later, I guess having spent thousands on a
flight, and having being traveling for 20 something hours some
people's tempers may get a bit short if you tell them they are going
straight back home again.

[Jay Honeck]

> One reality is that in the hands of someone young, strong, and willing to
> die, a Leatherman tool is a weapon when he is the only one so armed in an
> enclosed cabin...

You have clearly never tried to open those damned sealed plastic packages!
;-)

I received a USB "Attaché" for Xmas. (It's a thingy you plug into your USB
port, and it acts like a hard-drive. Great for backing up your work, and
it's small enough to keep on a keychain!)

The stupid thing was sealed in a plastic container that defied ALL attempts
to open it -- until I actually fetched my TIN SNIPS. This is the kind of
stuff the Leatherman tool was sealed in!

*sigh* Sadly, I agree with the rest of your post. Our nation has become
wimps, all.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[C J Campbell]

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
| In article >, Nomen Nescio
| ]> wrote:
|
| > I dread the day they catch a terrorist with a couple pounds of C-4
| > concealed....uh.....rectally.
|
| Hey, the CIA made listening devices to look like tiger turds and seeded
| the trails of Southeast Asia with them... it's possible.

Crap! The OSS made bombs shaped like camel turds in North Africa during WW
II.

[C J Campbell]

"Jürgen Exner" > wrote in message
...
| Jay Honeck wrote:
| [...story about relative being searched by security personal]
| > Today my sister called, to drop the other shoe. Turns out my OTHER
| > sister (his aunt) had given my poor nephew a wrapped Xmas present, to
| > give to his Dad. Inside this present was a "Leatherman Multi-tool"
| > -- obviously something that could be used as a weapon! My poor
| > nephew had NO idea what was in this wrapped gift,
|
| Then I guess your nephew lied when he was asked if he had packed the
| suitcase himself and if anyone has given him anything to carry on the
| airplane...
|
| All in all I would call it a valuable lesson in why it is important to
| answer questions truthfully.

And I would call it a valuable lesson in why it is nobody's damned business.

[Peter Gottlieb]

Darn, missed that. I would have vouched for her, and even taken her home if
necessary.

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Jim
> > wrote:
>
> > I'm beginning to think that we all demand to fly commercially.... NAKED!
It
> > would make things so much easier.
>
> Naw... a french woman stripped down to her undies at the checkpoint
> here in Columbus last summer and got arrested.

[Jürgen Exner]

EDR wrote:
> In article >, Jim
> > wrote:
>
>> I'm beginning to think that we all demand to fly commercially....
>> NAKED! It would make things so much easier.
>
> Naw... a french woman stripped down to her undies at the checkpoint
> here in Columbus last summer and got arrested.

Yeah, but that could happen only in the US of A.
In France she would have been invited to a champaigne brunch.

jue

[Kevin Dunlevy]

I had a similar experience at LAX after visiting my father. My sister sent a
gift wrapped "credit card" sized Swiss army set home with me to give to my
brother. It had a small blade along with other small implements. I had no
idea what was wrapped in the gift box, but the X ray picked up the blade.
The TSA guard apparently believed me when I complained that only my sister
would send me through airport security with a knife. He gave me the choice
of checking my bag with the gift, or having it confiscated. After thinking
about how much trouble I would be in with my sister, I checked my only bag.
When I got home, I fed exed the damned knife the rest of the way to my
brother. I don't know why my sister couldn't have fed exed the thing from
LA. KD



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:84_Hb.6418$xX.15221@attbi_s02...
> So we took my 26 year old, blonde, blue-eyed, 6' 4" nephew back to the
Cedar
> Rapids airport last night, to catch his red-eye flight back to Seattle.
He
> was as sick as a dog (flu?) and weak as a kitten, but go he must, so off
he
> went...
>
> The "Eastern Iowa Airport" is a pretty sleepy place on a Sunday night --
> even the airport bar was closed (gasp!) -- and there were MAYBE 50 people
in
> the entire airport terminal, including employees. Since we were no longer
> allowed to go to the gate with him, we said our goodbyes at the entrance
to
> the security checkpoint.
>
> This area was staffed by TEN (10!) uniformed TSA guys, waiting to pounce
on
> the terrorists who were (no doubt) thronging into the heartland. My
nephew
> strolled through the X-ray machine, passed uneventfully, and then put his
> single carry-on bag (a back-pack) on the conveyor...
>
> ...from our distance it was obvious that the TSA guys were suddenly tense,
> and -- although we were beyond earshot -- it was easy to see that
SOMETHING
> was wrong. My nephew, weak with flu, stood staring numbly at the people
who
> had suddenly gathered around him. He was obviously confused.
>
> Soon he was taken to the side. Within 30 seconds two uniformed police
> officers strode purposefully past us, coming from another part of the
> airport but obviously on their way to see my nephew. The other officers
> were holding something that we couldn't quite see, and were speaking quite
> seriously to him, all the while keeping him surrounded by a minimum of
four
> TSA guards.
>
> After 10 minutes of this, they took him into an area we could not see.
With
> visions of rubber hoses and bright lights, we paced back and forth, unable
> to do ANYTHING to help.
>
> What could it be? He certainly fit the terrorist "threat profile" -- for
> the "Swedish Liberation Army", perhaps. Since, to our knowledge, Sweden
> had not been named an "Axis of Evil" country, we couldn't fathom what had
> triggered this response.
>
> After an interminable five minutes he emerged and gave us a weary wave as
he
> headed off to his gate. Of course we were unable to find out what had
gone
> wrong, or why he had been detained -- the TSA folks simply would not tell
> us, and my nephew had no cell phone.
>
> We drove home wondering what the hell my nephew could have done?
>
> Today my sister called, to drop the other shoe. Turns out my OTHER sister
> (his aunt) had given my poor nephew a wrapped Xmas present, to give to his
> Dad. Inside this present was a "Leatherman Multi-tool" -- obviously
> something that could be used as a weapon! My poor nephew had NO idea
what
> was in this wrapped gift, and my sister had assumed that he would carry
the
> present in his "checked" baggage -- not in his "carry-on" baggage.
Because
> he didn't know if it was breakable, he had opted to carry the present
where
> it could not be broken.
>
> So, he is now on a permanent list of "potential terrorist threats", is
being
> threatened with a $50.00 fine, was put through an awful situation over
which
> he had no control or knowledge, and my sister feels thoroughly awful. He
> barely made his flight, and (of course) his Dad didn't receive his Xmas
> present, since the TSA confiscated it.
>
> And the final irony of the whole story: the "Leatherman" tool, as with so
> many things these days, was sealed in one of those plastic containers that
> (you guessed it!) requires a knife or scissors to open...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Brad Z]

> Then I guess your nephew lied when he was asked if he had packed the
> suitcase himself and if anyone has given him anything to carry on the
> airplane...

They don't ask those silly questions anymore.

[Blanche]

And what's wrong with taking the object in question and mailing it
from the airport? TSA doesn't like it? Fine. Take your bags and the
object over to another counter or perhaps the gift shop, get a
mailing box and send it home. I was under the impression that
the objects were confiscated only if you agreed to allow it in order
to continue to the aircraft.

As far as I'm concerned, it's theft by the US Government if there
is no way to return the object to the owner at a later time.

[Michelle P]

Jay,
Pilots can no longer have a Leatherman. They were a little upset. We
(mechanics) cannot carry our tools through normal security. We have to
take them through special security. The ones who see us every day and
know that we need certain things that are "banned" to do our jobs.
Michelle

Jay Honeck wrote:

>So we took my 26 year old, blonde, blue-eyed, 6' 4" nephew back to the Cedar
>Rapids airport last night, to catch his red-eye flight back to Seattle. He
>was as sick as a dog (flu?) and weak as a kitten, but go he must, so off he
>went...
>
>The "Eastern Iowa Airport" is a pretty sleepy place on a Sunday night --
>even the airport bar was closed (gasp!) -- and there were MAYBE 50 people in
>the entire airport terminal, including employees. Since we were no longer
>allowed to go to the gate with him, we said our goodbyes at the entrance to
>the security checkpoint.
>
>This area was staffed by TEN (10!) uniformed TSA guys, waiting to pounce on
>the terrorists who were (no doubt) thronging into the heartland. My nephew
>strolled through the X-ray machine, passed uneventfully, and then put his
>single carry-on bag (a back-pack) on the conveyor...
>
>...from our distance it was obvious that the TSA guys were suddenly tense,
>and -- although we were beyond earshot -- it was easy to see that SOMETHING
>was wrong. My nephew, weak with flu, stood staring numbly at the people who
>had suddenly gathered around him. He was obviously confused.
>
>Soon he was taken to the side. Within 30 seconds two uniformed police
>officers strode purposefully past us, coming from another part of the
>airport but obviously on their way to see my nephew. The other officers
>were holding something that we couldn't quite see, and were speaking quite
>seriously to him, all the while keeping him surrounded by a minimum of four
>TSA guards.
>
>After 10 minutes of this, they took him into an area we could not see. With
>visions of rubber hoses and bright lights, we paced back and forth, unable
>to do ANYTHING to help.
>
>What could it be? He certainly fit the terrorist "threat profile" -- for
>the "Swedish Liberation Army", perhaps. Since, to our knowledge, Sweden
>had not been named an "Axis of Evil" country, we couldn't fathom what had
>triggered this response.
>
>After an interminable five minutes he emerged and gave us a weary wave as he
>headed off to his gate. Of course we were unable to find out what had gone
>wrong, or why he had been detained -- the TSA folks simply would not tell
>us, and my nephew had no cell phone.
>
>We drove home wondering what the hell my nephew could have done?
>
>Today my sister called, to drop the other shoe. Turns out my OTHER sister
>(his aunt) had given my poor nephew a wrapped Xmas present, to give to his
>Dad. Inside this present was a "Leatherman Multi-tool" -- obviously
>something that could be used as a weapon! My poor nephew had NO idea what
>was in this wrapped gift, and my sister had assumed that he would carry the
>present in his "checked" baggage -- not in his "carry-on" baggage. Because
>he didn't know if it was breakable, he had opted to carry the present where
>it could not be broken.
>
>So, he is now on a permanent list of "potential terrorist threats", is being
>threatened with a $50.00 fine, was put through an awful situation over which
>he had no control or knowledge, and my sister feels thoroughly awful. He
>barely made his flight, and (of course) his Dad didn't receive his Xmas
>present, since the TSA confiscated it.
>
>And the final irony of the whole story: the "Leatherman" tool, as with so
>many things these days, was sealed in one of those plastic containers that
>(you guessed it!) requires a knife or scissors to open...
>
>

--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

[Jay Honeck]

> Pilots can no longer have a Leatherman. They were a little upset.

In retrospect, what I've taken from this experience is that we, as pilots,
should be more grateful than ever that we have earned the gift of flight --
and we must be prepared and willing to defend this right, even as the
paranoid amongst us seek to strip it away.

My nephew's flight was heading first for Midway (Chicago), to catch his main
flight back to Seattle. According to Destination Direct, I could have flown
him to Chicago myself in 1:12. Given that we were forced to arrive at the
airport fully two hours before his flight was scheduled to depart, it is
obvious that I could have simply flown him there myself in less than half
the time it took the airlines.

In the future, this will be my preferred method -- and I'll keep *my*
Leatherman tool close at hand in the pilot's-side pocket, where it belongs.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[StellaStar]

>It's not your fault for having it.
>
>It's the administration's fault for not allowing it.

Ever hear the saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse"?

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=177

Partial quote: "Prohibited items are weapons, explosives, incendiaries, and
include items that are seemingly harmless but may be used as weapons - the
so-called "dual use" items. You may not bring these items to security
checkpoints without authorization....

If you bring a prohibited item to the checkpoint you may be criminally and/or
civilly prosecuted or at the least asked to rid yourself of the item. A
screener and/or Law Enforcement Officer will make this determination depending
on what the item is and the circumstances. This is because bringing a
prohibited item to a security checkpoint - even accidentally - is illegal.

(tough love, baby...and though I'm with those who say he administration's
running roughshod over civil rights, there's been enough publicity that anybody
going to fly commercial could find their way to the site and peruse the
prohibited items. It's actually amazing what you CAN carry, in checked luggage)

[Scott Skylane]

Jürgen Exner wrote:
/snip/
> Then I guess your nephew lied when he was asked if he had packed the
> suitcase himself and if anyone has given him anything to carry on the
> airplane...
>
> All in all I would call it a valuable lesson in why it is important to
> answer questions truthfully.
>
> jue
>
>
First of all, jue, the questions were:"has anyone *not known by you*
asked you to carry anything on board?", and "have your bags been out of
your possesion since you packed them?"

Secondly, they stopped asking those questions about two years ago. All
in all I would call it an important lesson in getting your facts
straight before laying judgement...

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

[Bob Noel]

In article >, Martin Hotze
> wrote:

> "Jim Fisher" > wrote:
>
> > Don't believe everything you read, Martin.
>
>
> Those stories involving the USA I have now reached the stage where I
> believe
> everything bad. The good things have to be proven, I don't believe them
> unless
> seen myself or by reliable witnesses. Sad, but true. It was the other way
> round
> not too long ago.

well, as long as you have an open mind...

--
Bob Noel

[Neil Gould]

Recently, Jay Honeck > posted:

> So we took my 26 year old, blonde, blue-eyed, 6' 4" nephew back to
> the Cedar Rapids airport last night, to catch his red-eye flight back
> to Seattle. He was as sick as a dog (flu?) and weak as a kitten, but
> go he must, so off he went...
>
> The "Eastern Iowa Airport" is a pretty sleepy place on a Sunday night
> -- even the airport bar was closed (gasp!) -- and there were MAYBE 50
> people in the entire airport terminal, including employees. Since we
> were no longer allowed to go to the gate with him, we said our
> goodbyes at the entrance to the security checkpoint.
>
> This area was staffed by TEN (10!) uniformed TSA guys, waiting to
> pounce on the terrorists who were (no doubt) thronging into the
> heartland. My nephew strolled through the X-ray machine, passed
> uneventfully, and then put his single carry-on bag (a back-pack) on
> the conveyor...
>
(rest snipped)

Well, one possible upside is that all 10 TSA guys now have the flu. Of
course, that leaves the Eastern Iowa Airport particularly vulnerable! And,
while it does seem like a long-shot, your nephew *could* have asked one of
the attendants for scissors to open his package, then use the tool to hack
through the cabin door and disable the pilots. Oh, wait, if he had the
scissors, he wouldn't need the tool...

Neil

[Rob Perkins]

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:31:13 GMT, "Jürgen Exner"
> wrote:

>Then I guess your nephew lied when he was asked if he had packed the
>suitcase himself and if anyone has given him anything to carry on the
>airplane...

They don't ask those questions any longer. Please know what you're
talking about before commenting on a foreign security service...

Rob

[Jay Honeck]

> I can't believe how stupid this is. What about an ignorant law? Why
> don't you read that stupid list of allowed items? A Leatherman is
> prohibited, but safety razors, nail files, crochet needles, and
> corkscrews are fine?
>
> Stupid, stupid, stupid......

And lets not forget, the Leatherman tool in question was just as
inaccessible as if it were encased in concrete.

It's a question of judgment. In the end, the TSA guys let my nephew go, so
common sense did ultimately prevail -- but not until after 15 minutes of
tension.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Teacherjh]

>>
>It's not your fault for having it.
>
>It's the administration's fault for not allowing it.

Ever hear the saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse"?
<<

You miss the point (and the fact that you miss the point illustrates my point -
we are all sheep now)

What I am saying is that the law is bad, not that not knowing the law is ok.
IF they passed a law making people dance the watusi before boarding, would you
be in favor of jailing the bad dancers? (after all, they had notice, they
could have taken dancing lessons)

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Teacherjh]

>>
It's a question of judgment. In the end, the TSA guys let my nephew go, so
common sense did ultimately prevail -- but not until after 15 minutes of
tension.
<<

and theft of a $50 letherman.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Ash Wyllie]

Blanche opined

>And what's wrong with taking the object in question and mailing it
>from the airport? TSA doesn't like it? Fine. Take your bags and the
>object over to another counter or perhaps the gift shop, get a
>mailing box and send it home. I was under the impression that
>the objects were confiscated only if you agreed to allow it in order
>to continue to the aircraft.

>As far as I'm concerned, it's theft by the US Government if there
>is no way to return the object to the owner at a later time.

The TSA should have bags ready for Leathermen, jack knives and nail
clippers. They could even make a few bucks by selling them. The bags could be
mailed or even <gasp> put in a secure part of the airplane and then returned
at your destination.

What a concept; nice security.


-ash
for assistance dial MYCROFTXXX

[Ash Wyllie]

StellaStar opined

>>It's not your fault for having it.
>>
>>It's the administration's fault for not allowing it.

>Ever hear the saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse"?

>http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=177

>Partial quote: "Prohibited items are weapons, explosives, incendiaries, and
>include items that are seemingly harmless but may be used as weapons - the
>so-called "dual use" items. You may not bring these items to security
>checkpoints without authorization....

I watched my mother go through security with six cocktail glasses. Why they
let her onthe airplane with six potential weapons is beyond me.

>If you bring a prohibited item to the checkpoint you may be criminally and/or
>civilly prosecuted or at the least asked to rid yourself of the item. A
>screener and/or Law Enforcement Officer will make this determination
>depending on what the item is and the circumstances. This is because bringing
>a prohibited item to a security checkpoint - even accidentally - is illegal.

>(tough love, baby...and though I'm with those who say he administration's
>running roughshod over civil rights, there's been enough publicity that
>anybody going to fly commercial could find their way to the site and peruse
>the prohibited items. It's actually amazing what you CAN carry, in checked
>luggage)



-ash
for assistance dial MYCROFTXXX

[Jay Honeck]

> and theft of a $50 letherman.

I'm not sure about that. Perhaps they will mail it to him?

I'll have to ask my nephew.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> besides: Jay, do you have any statistics on guests from foreign countries
in
> your hotel? is it decreasing?

Hard to say, as it's a pretty tiny percentage of our business.

I've read that the number of foreign students at the University is down, so
I imagine that this trend will trickle down to us.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[John Harlow]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> and theft of a $50 letherman.
>
> I'm not sure about that. Perhaps they will mail it to him?

Lol - it's now siezed property. Read the article I posted the link to:

"Airports have various ways of getting rid of items taken from passengers.
Washington Reagan National Airport sends them to a metal grinder before
they're melted down, while several California airports -- including San Jose
Mineta International Airport and Oakland International Airport -- offer them
on the eBay online auction site, Turmail said. "

[Rosspilot]

>> and theft of a $50 letherman.
>
>I'm not sure about that. Perhaps they will mail it to him?
>

No way. Even if he is willing to pay the shipping. Never happen. Too large a
bureaucracy. Let me know if I am wrong--it would make me happy.




www.Rosspilot.com

[EDR]

In article >, Blanche
> wrote:

> As far as I'm concerned, it's theft by the US Government if there
> is no way to return the object to the owner at a later time.

An interesting program on this topic was heard on NPR yesterday
afternoon.
It seems that if a passenger complains that something has been stolen
from his/her luggage, there are now multiple forms that must be filled
out. Then, you wait.
Under new legislation, the TSA and airlines share losses 50-50.
The only problem is, Congress limited the TSA's amount to $2 million.

[EDR]

In article >, StellaStar
> wrote:

> Partial quote: "Prohibited items are weapons, explosives, incendiaries, and
> include items that are seemingly harmless but may be used as weapons - the
> so-called "dual use" items. You may not bring these items to security
> checkpoints without authorization....

Interesting...
There was a television spy-type program on two or three years ago.
The one line that I will always remember the main character say is,
"Everything is a weapon, you just have to know how to use it."

[Andrew Rowley]

(StellaStar) wrote:

>Ever hear the saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse"?
>
>http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=177
>
>Partial quote: "Prohibited items are weapons, explosives, incendiaries, and
>include items that are seemingly harmless but may be used as weapons - the
>so-called "dual use" items. You may not bring these items to security
>checkpoints without authorization....
>
>If you bring a prohibited item to the checkpoint you may be criminally and/or
>civilly prosecuted or at the least asked to rid yourself of the item. A
>screener and/or Law Enforcement Officer will make this determination depending
>on what the item is and the circumstances. This is because bringing a
>prohibited item to a security checkpoint - even accidentally - is illegal.

While a Leatherman may be pretty obvious, some things seem pretty
arbitrary. At work we are required to use security cables for our
laptops. We have been warned to pack them in checked luggage as a
number of people have had them confiscated from carry on. Apparently
the justification was that they could be used to strangle someone. For
some reason power cables, and indeed shoelaces and belts are OK though
:-)

[Richard Hertz]

>
> So, he is now on a permanent list of "potential terrorist threats", is
being
> threatened with a $50.00 fine, was put through an awful situation over
which
> he had no control or knowledge, and my sister feels thoroughly awful. He
> barely made his flight, and (of course) his Dad didn't receive his Xmas
> present, since the TSA confiscated it.
>
>

He did have control. He was given something from someone and didn't know
what it was. I think that is one of the things usually asked at check in.

[David Reinhart]

Loy had them drop that question not long after he took over, along with "Did
you pack your own bags?" and "Have your bags been in your control the whole
time?".

Dave Reinhart


Richard Hertz wrote:

>
>
> He did have control. He was given something from someone and didn't know
> what it was. I think that is one of the things usually asked at check in.

[Brian Burger]

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Jay Honeck wrote:

> > and theft of a $50 letherman.
>
> I'm not sure about that. Perhaps they will mail it to him?
>
> I'll have to ask my nephew.

It'll turn up on EBay in a lot of 50, or get recycled as scrap metal.

Or it'll go home in a Dept. of Fatherland Insecurity's jacket pocket.

Take your pick!

Brian.

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, Martin Hotze wrote:
> yeah .. be sure that you don't have an almanac with you ... does the FAR/AIM
> also count?

I got one hell of a grilling for carrying my Dave Clarks with me. The
screener recognised them as aviation headsets, and started demanding
airport ID. She begrudgingly let me go when I explained that Houston
Gulf was a GA airport with no ID requirement.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, Dennis O'Connor wrote:
> One reality is that in the hands of someone young, strong, and willing to
> die, a Leatherman tool is a weapon when he is the only one so armed in an
> enclosed cabin...

It's so arbitrary though. Given the element of surprise, I'm sure my
leather belt could be used as a deadly weapon, especially as the belt
buckle is metal. Since it doesn't set off metal detectors, someone could
sharpen their belt buckle and make it into a rather nasty weapon when
swung on 40 inches or so of leather.

The point is that the terrorists are winning.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, Rosspilot wrote:
> We are terrorizing ourselves . . . check out Fox News--they have "Terror
> Alert--HIGH" permanently on the lower left corner of the screen.

Sensationalist news 'sources' like Faux News are part of the problem.
Fox News is probably one of the worst I've seen.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[EDR]

In article >, Dylan Smith
> wrote:

> It's so arbitrary though. Given the element of surprise, I'm sure my
> leather belt could be used as a deadly weapon, especially as the belt
> buckle is metal. Since it doesn't set off metal detectors, someone could
> sharpen their belt buckle and make it into a rather nasty weapon when
> swung on 40 inches or so of leather.

Weapons you can legally carry onto any airline flight:

- belts... (as mentioned above) can be used as garrots; with a
sufficiently heavy buckle may be used as a mace-like; the buckle may be
used as a puncture weapon; the belt itself may be wrapped around the
fingers to protect them when punching; may be used for binding

- shoelaces... may be used as a garrot, to trip and for binding

- heavy boots... can be worn on the hands and used like boxing gloves

- pens/pencils... can be used to inflict puncture wounds in the head,
neck, torso and extremities

- jacket/coat/shirt... can be used as garrots and to bind; can be use
as shield when wrapped around the hand and forearm

- elastic from bras and underwear... may be used as slingshot to propel
objects

Weapons found on the aircraft provided by the aircarrier:

- seat belts... can be removed with two fingers and used in a mace-like
manner

- serving pitchers... effective for clubbing

- soft drink cans (full)... projectiles

These are just a few of the items that come to mind. They are both
offensive and defensive. As a passenger, you have the right to defend
yourself by any means necessary.

[Dave]

"Dylan Smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Dennis O'Connor wrote:
> > One reality is that in the hands of someone young, strong, and willing
to
> > die, a Leatherman tool is a weapon when he is the only one so armed in
an
> > enclosed cabin...
>
> It's so arbitrary though. Given the element of surprise, I'm sure my
> leather belt could be used as a deadly weapon, especially as the belt
> buckle is metal. Since it doesn't set off metal detectors, someone could
> sharpen their belt buckle and make it into a rather nasty weapon when
> swung on 40 inches or so of leather.
>
> The point is that the terrorists are winning.
>
The terrorists have won. They need do nothing more than send emails and make
telephone calls to feed the security services and let them cause chaos,
wastage of money and resources.

Politicians love terrorists. Bush and his cronies along with the governments
elsewhere in the world need terrorists to justify increasing their power and
taking steps which we would not accept otherwise.

Eg Imprisonment of people without evidence or trial. The rationalisation of
suspicion as evidence. Going to war.
There are so many contradictions in applying the policy.
If a flight poses such a risk than an armed guard is required then it should
either have the passengers assessed as being at risk taken off or be
cancelled. Cannot do that as big business (the airlines ) would lose money.
It would be almost better to cancel the flights and give the Security costs
money to the airlines.
There seems to be a contrick going on with the debate on sky marshals.

If I was a terrorist on a plane my weapon of choice would be a perfume spray
filled with an appropriate toxic substance. You could secretly disable a
couple of people to flush out any security measures and get on with your
task.

Governments have to be seen to be justifying their grab on power. Do they
think we are too stupid to realise this?

On the whole if you listen to the average talk radio show then the answer
must be yes. After all we voted them into office. Notice that there is
never a "non of these" on the ballot paper.

Yep, the terrorists have won. Its not about body count its about the change
in quality of life.

Dave

[S Narayan]

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, StellaStar
> > wrote:
>
> > Partial quote: "Prohibited items are weapons, explosives, incendiaries,
and
> > include items that are seemingly harmless but may be used as weapons -
the
> > so-called "dual use" items. You may not bring these items to security
> > checkpoints without authorization....
>
> Interesting...
> There was a television spy-type program on two or three years ago.
> The one line that I will always remember the main character say is,
> "Everything is a weapon, you just have to know how to use it."

"MacGyver" would be terror threat #1 then. Of course he is the ultimate nice
guy.

[Kyler Laird]

"Dave" > writes:

>If I was a terrorist on a plane my weapon of choice would be [...]

For quite awhile I've been musing about the possibility of a contest
like this. I recall seeing salvage airliners for sale and it made
me think that it would be interesting to have contestants pass
through a realistic security screening, then board an airliner body
to compete against animatronic passengers/security using only items
they smuggle and find on-board.

(It's the only way I imagine I'd get on an airliner.)

And, no, I'm not silly enough to think that "security measures" have
anything to do with "security" other than "job security." It's just
a fun exercise to consider.

--kyler

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, EDR wrote:
> These are just a few of the items that come to mind. They are both
> offensive and defensive. As a passenger, you have the right to defend
> yourself by any means necessary.

IIRC, someone did use their belt against the Shoe Bomber.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"