HMS Revenge 1916 & aircraft

[a425couple]

While trying to get a better view of a WWI era
British RN BB gun turret, I found:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/HMS_Revenge_%281916%29_profile_drawing.png

IMHO a nice set of color line drawings!

OK, not that unusual, both the top (front and rear)
main gun turrets, have wood planking constructed
to enable a bi-plane to take off.
OK, at ship top speed, & bit of a breeze, the plane
could take off, & give scouting capability
(& perhaps if all was worked up very well with
a wireless, maybe even spotting capability,,
although noting, even in 1939&40 that often did
not go all that well,,).

Question #1, under non-combat conditions could
the bi-plane generally land safely on that platform?
(Hey, ISTM, if the battle fleet is engaged & firing,
the least important concern is aircraft recovery,
when out of gas, ditch near a DD & hitch hike home.)

Question #2, when the main guns elevated & fired,
how much of that scaffolding fell off?
Or, was it planned to quickly dismantle & cast
overboard?

Question #3A (while I have someone looking at
this drawing ((??)) I may as well ask a more ignorant
question) Go up the main front mast.
There is here, & routinely, a large 'spar' that
sits horizontal, and atwartship (90 degrees to ship
centerline). I've long believed it to be a optical
rangefinder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coincidence_rangefinder
But I can not find pictures of it at an angle
(or aimed toward a broadside target)
Is it an optical rangefinder, or just a spar?

#3B, if that is not an optical rangefinder, where
is the rangefinder?
#3C, where does the primary gunfire director
crew sit/work?

[Vaughn]

On 9/13/2012 9:29 AM, a425couple wrote:
> Question #1, under non-combat conditions could
> the bi-plane generally land safely on that platform?
> (Hey, ISTM, if the battle fleet is engaged & firing,
> the least important concern is aircraft recovery,
> when out of gas, ditch near a DD & hitch hike home.)

A normal approach to the front platform is quite impossible since there
is superstructure behind it. (Though theoretically possible if the ship
quartered into a headwind and aligned the turret with the apparent wind.
It would take a super-pilot, and any error would douse the ship with
burning gasoline. Therefore, I just don't think it happened.)

The rear platform also doesn't seem to be designed for a landing. For
half it's length, there is no place for the tail wheel! Imagine how
turbulent the air would be behind the ship from the superstructure and
the stack-gasses.

My guess is that the planes normally landed on an airstrip for exercises
and were intended to be sacrificed in case of actual combat.

Also, note that the Captain wouldn't want that gasoline-filled plane on
his deck during combat. Those flammable platforms also look like a danger.

[Moramarth]

On 13 Sep, 14:29, "a425couple" > wrote:
> But I can not find pictures of it at an angle
> (or aimed toward a broadside target)
> Is it an optical rangefinder, or just a spar?
>
> #3B, if that is not an optical rangefinder, where
> is the rangefinder?
> #3C, where does the primary gunfire director
> crew sit/work?
Just aft of "B" turret is a small turret-like structure with two ports
on the front - that's the Director Control Tower. The Range Finder is
the rectangular structure across the back of this. There is a similar
but smaller backup installation just forward of "X" turret, a conning
tower with a smaller rangefinder on the roof.

Cheers,

Moramarth

[a425couple]

"Moramarth" > wrote in message...
> "a425couple" > wrote:
>> #3B, if that is not an optical rangefinder, where
>> is the rangefinder?
>> #3C, where does the primary gunfire director
>> crew sit/work?
> Just aft of "B" turret is a small turret-like structure with two ports
> on the front - that's the Director Control Tower. The Range Finder is
> the rectangular structure across the back of this. There is a similar
> but smaller backup installation just forward of "X" turret, a conning
> tower with a smaller rangefinder on the roof.

I thank you, and everyone else that responded, very much.

Would you care to look at this one & offer info.?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Dreadnought_(1911)_profile_drawing.png
Probably one generation earlier
(or, the first modern battleship).

I would believe I see the primary gunfire control director station
just forward of the rear stack. (with rangefinder).
If that is correct, how many men do you figure
sat inside that station?

(For what it's worth, I believe I have a somewhat
'decent' understanding of WWII era BB & cruiser,
and newer DD gunfire directors.)

[Jim Wilkins[_2_]]

"a425couple" > wrote in message
...
> ...> Would you care to look at this one & offer info.?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Dreadnought_(1911)_profile_drawing.png
> Probably one generation earlier
> (or, the first modern battleship).
>

hnsa.org is a good source for old naval technical manuals:
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/rangekeeper/index.htm

http://www.cityofart.net/bship/dreadnought.html
"the gentlemen of the split-field optics manning the rangefinders
before the bridge; and the gentlemen of the telescope manning Director
Firing Control in the spotting top."

jsw

[Keith W[_4_]]

a425couple wrote:
> "Moramarth" > wrote in message...
>> "a425couple" > wrote:
>>> #3B, if that is not an optical rangefinder, where
>>> is the rangefinder?
>>> #3C, where does the primary gunfire director
>>> crew sit/work?
>> Just aft of "B" turret is a small turret-like structure with two
>> ports on the front - that's the Director Control Tower. The Range
>> Finder is the rectangular structure across the back of this. There
>> is a similar but smaller backup installation just forward of "X"
>> turret, a conning tower with a smaller rangefinder on the roof.
>
> I thank you, and everyone else that responded, very much.
>
> Would you care to look at this one & offer info.?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Dreadnought_(1911)_profile_drawing.png
> Probably one generation earlier
> (or, the first modern battleship).
>
> I would believe I see the primary gunfire control director station
> just forward of the rear stack. (with rangefinder).
> If that is correct, how many men do you figure
> sat inside that station?
>

As built Dreadnought had two control positions, one on top of
the foremast and another on the roof of the signal tower. Each
had a 9ft Barr and Stroud rangefinder and fed them to a mechanical
computer and range clock in the control position below them.

Later extra rangefinders were fitted to the compass platform and to
A turret and fire control refitted with a Dreyer Table

The foretop crew would be relatively small.

Keith

[peter skelton]

"Keith W" wrote in message
...

a425couple wrote:
> "Moramarth" > wrote in
> message...
>> "a425couple" > wrote:
>>> #3B, if that is not an optical rangefinder, where
>>> is the rangefinder?
>>> #3C, where does the primary gunfire director
>>> crew sit/work?
>> Just aft of "B" turret is a small turret-like structure
>> with two
>> ports on the front - that's the Director Control Tower.
>> The Range
>> Finder is the rectangular structure across the back of
>> this. There
>> is a similar but smaller backup installation just forward
>> of "X"
>> turret, a conning tower with a smaller rangefinder on the
>> roof.
>
> I thank you, and everyone else that responded, very much.
>
> Would you care to look at this one & offer info.?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Dreadnought_(1911)_profile_drawing.png
> Probably one generation earlier
> (or, the first modern battleship).
>
> I would believe I see the primary gunfire control director
> station
> just forward of the rear stack. (with rangefinder).
> If that is correct, how many men do you figure
> sat inside that station?
>

>As built Dreadnought had two control positions, one on top
>of
the foremast and another on the roof of the signal tower.
Each
had a 9ft Barr and Stroud rangefinder and fed them to a
mechanical
computer and range clock in the control position below them.

>Later extra rangefinders were fitted to the compass
>platform and to
A turret and fire control refitted with a Dreyer Table

>The foretop crew would be relatively small.

I had thought they came later, but, on looking it up I find
that 'range clock' first referred to what later became 'fire
control clock', the name 'range clock' having apparently
been taken over by the big dials mounted on capital ships
post-Jutland to show gun elevation to ships ahead and
astern. (If anyone has the details I'd be interested.)

Peter

[a425couple]

"peter skelton" > wrote in message...
> "Keith W" wrote in message
> a425couple wrote:
>> "Moramarth" > wrote in
>> message...
>>> "a425couple" > wrote:
>>>> #3B, if that is not an optical rangefinder, where
>>>> is the rangefinder?

Thank you Jim, Keith & Peter.