ILEC Instruments

[K]

New owner (Not by choice) of SN10 driven by Volkslogger. Was going to tear out and replace with something newer but I thought Id try and see how I liked it. First, the technology seems ancient, some type of 9 point connector (What happened to SD cards or thumb drives) and the factory site seems incomplete and dated. Some of the downloads are not compatible with windows 7 (surprising, I thought just about everything was). What is really confusing is that the US dealer (Cumulus) shows the SN10 packaged with a GPS that is no longer available (!)and there is not a list of anything else that is compatible. Tried updating files and such on the unit and so far a bit of frustration and the paper manual that came with it is not much help. Seems odd for a computer that lists for over 3 grand and doesn't even have a built in GPS or meaningful display. Should I accept the fact that I have an expensive paper weight or should I dig some connectors out of the used parts bin and find a computer with an old version of Windows 95 and keep at it?
Thanks
Kirk

[KevinFinke]

I wouldn't get rid of my SN10 for any reason. Yes it seems dated by
comparison, but it's simplicity and interface is second to no one. It
has just what you need, and with the custom page, you can put the
information you want in just the way you want it. I have yet to find a
computer that gives better wind information. I'd suggest getting the
USB upgrade for it, then you don't need to worry about finding an old
computer.

-Kevin

[Michael Huber]

From the negative attidtude in your post I feel you should sell the
SN10 for cheap as fast as you can.You can get something with a SD card
slot, and I am sure somebody else will apreciate a great flight
computer.

Michael

"K" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
New owner (Not by choice) of SN10 driven by Volkslogger. Was going to
tear out and replace with something newer but I thought Id try and see
how I liked it. First, the technology seems ancient, some type of 9
point connector (What happened to SD cards or thumb drives) and the
factory site seems incomplete and dated. Some of the downloads are not
compatible with windows 7 (surprising, I thought just about everything
was). What is really confusing is that the US dealer (Cumulus) shows
the SN10 packaged with a GPS that is no longer available (!)and there
is not a list of anything else that is compatible. Tried updating
files and such on the unit and so far a bit of frustration and the
paper manual that came with it is not much help. Seems odd for a
computer that lists for over 3 grand and doesn't even have a built in
GPS or meaningful display. Should I accept the fact that I have an
expensive paper weight or should I dig some connectors out of the used
parts bin and find a computer with an old version of Windows 95 and
keep at it?
Thanks
Kirk

[K]

Mike and Kev,
Thanks for the response. So far we have one vote for Paper Weight and on vote for keep at it ;). Sorry for the tone, and I don't mind having an old instrument (Ive had an old Cambridge that I was no longer able to connect to a computer but an Oudie worked great for loading it), But the fact that this thing is still available new in what appears to be its early 1990s version is amazing.
Is there an online forum anywhere. Also, can this thing be made to work with any of the PDA style devices (I am a See You Mobile customer so that would be best). If I want to load tasks or declarations am I stuck with the Volkslogger?
Thanks Guys.

[kirk.stant]

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:59:20 AM UTC-7, K wrote:
> Mike and Kev,
>
> Thanks for the response. So far we have one vote for Paper Weight and on vote for keep at it ;). Sorry for the tone, and I don't mind having an old instrument (Ive had an old Cambridge that I was no longer able to connect to a computer but an Oudie worked great for loading it), But the fact that this thing is still available new in what appears to be its early 1990s version is amazing.
>
> Is there an online forum anywhere. Also, can this thing be made to work with any of the PDA style devices (I am a See You Mobile customer so that would be best). If I want to load tasks or declarations am I stuck with the Volkslogger?
>
> Thanks Guys.

Kirk, add another the the "keep it it's a great instrument" list. I've been using an SN10 for 12 years and still think it's one of the best gliding computers available - and so does Dick Butler, by the way, check out his Concordia cockpit!

First to clear up some misconceptions: Just about any GPS will work - just need the right connector. I started with a Garmin Pilot 3, then a Themi, and now use a wired-in Garmin 35 puck. It will also work with a PowerFLARM, infact it has it's own dedicated Flarm pages that repeat what is displayed on the PF display.

Next, the old way to update software and download flights required either a notebook with the right software and cable (the special cable is a dumb idea!) or a properly setup PDA, again with special software and the dumb cable. It works, and I can tell you how to set it up if you want to go that way, but it's a pain; the solution is to get the USB adaptor and all the hassle goes away. To load software or databases, just put them on a USB thumbdrive, stick them in the adaptor in the cockpit, and turn on the SN10. For downloading flights, after you land, just put in the thumbdrive and the flight automatically downloads.

Turnpoint and airspace files are a bit of a chore to make, but there are tools online to help, and the turnpoint exchange has premade ones (http://soaringweb.org/TP/HomePage.html#toc).

There are two versions out there, SN10 and SN10B, which have different hardware and displays but are apparently pretty similar. This is important when it comes to setting up some cables and doing software updates, so determine which kind yours is.

Cumulus soaring is a good place to have a custom cable made to connect your SN10 to just about anything - just figure out what your want to hook up to and tell Paul and he can help. For example, he made me a custom panel cable that has my hardwired GPS35 (power from the SN10), and a cable for data with a RJ45 connector, and a cable with a DB9 for the USB adaptor. The vario and wind data from the SN10 goes into a K6Mux, where it is combined with the Flarm and GPS data from my PowerFLARM brick, and sent to an Oudie. All just plug and play.

Finally, the place to go is http://www.nadler.com/sn10/SN10_Resource_Index.html, there is all the info you need, including the latest software updates, up to date manuals, and a nifty simulator that you can put on your PC and play around with to determine how to setup your custom pages, etc, and to check to see if your turnpoint and airspace files are good.

Please feel free to contact me directly if/when you have more questions.

So, yeah, it's old, kinda like a 1911A1 is old.

Cheers,

Kirk
66

(PS I think Michael was trying to score an SN10 cheap!)

[Brad[_2_]]

On Sep 15, 8:53*am, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> On Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:59:20 AM UTC-7, K wrote:
> > Mike and Kev,
>
> > Thanks for the response. So far we have one vote for Paper Weight and on vote for keep at it ;). Sorry for the tone, and I don't mind having an old instrument (Ive had an old Cambridge that I was no longer able to connect to a computer but an *Oudie worked great for loading it), But the fact that this thing is still available new in what appears to be its early 1990s version is amazing.
>
> > Is there an online forum anywhere. Also, can this thing be made to work with any of the PDA style devices (I am a See You Mobile customer so that would be best). If I want to load tasks or declarations am I stuck with the Volkslogger?
>
> > Thanks Guys.
>
> Kirk, add another the the "keep it it's a great instrument" list. *I've been using an SN10 for 12 years and still think it's one of the best gliding computers available - and so does Dick Butler, by the way, check out his Concordia cockpit!
>
> First to clear up some misconceptions: *Just about any GPS will work - just need *the right connector. I started with a Garmin Pilot 3, then a Themi, and now use a wired-in Garmin 35 puck. *It will also work with a PowerFLARM, infact it has it's own dedicated Flarm pages that repeat what is displayed on the PF display.
>
> Next, the old way to update software and download flights required either a notebook with the right software and cable (the special cable is a dumb idea!) or a properly setup PDA, again with special software and the dumb cable. *It works, and I can tell you how to set it up if you want to go that way, but it's a pain; the solution is to get the USB adaptor and all the hassle goes away. *To load software or databases, just put them on a USB thumbdrive, stick them in the *adaptor in the cockpit, and turn on the SN10. *For downloading flights, after you land, just put in the thumbdrive and the flight automatically downloads.
>
> Turnpoint and airspace files are a bit of a chore to make, but there are tools online to help, and the turnpoint exchange has premade ones (http://soaringweb.org/TP/HomePage.html#toc).
>
> There are two versions out there, SN10 and SN10B, which have different hardware and displays but are apparently pretty similar. *This is important when it comes *to setting up some cables and doing software updates, so determine which kind yours is.
>
> Cumulus soaring is a good place to have a custom cable made to connect your SN10 to just about anything - just figure out what your want to hook up to and tell Paul and he can help. *For example, he made me a custom panel cable that has my hardwired GPS35 (power from the SN10), and a cable for data with a RJ45 connector, and a cable with a DB9 for the USB adaptor. *The vario and wind data from the SN10 goes into a K6Mux, where it is combined with the Flarm and GPS data from my PowerFLARM brick, and sent to an Oudie. *All just plug and play.
>
> Finally, the place to go ishttp://www.nadler.com/sn10/SN10_Resource_Index..html, there is all the info you need, including the latest software updates, up to date manuals, and a nifty simulator that you can put on your PC and play around with to determine how to setup your custom pages, etc, and to check to see if your turnpoint and airspace files are good.
>
> Please feel free to contact me directly if/when you have more questions.
>
> So, yeah, it's old, kinda like a 1911A1 is old.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kirk
> 66
>
> (PS I think Michael was trying to score an SN10 cheap!)

I don't have an SN-10, but I've been an ILEC vario user for years, in
fact I sought out an ancient SB-8 for my new
sailplane............mainly because it is an awesome STF vario and
with my other flight instruments I get all the data I need, for nav
and wind and fg. Plus, the SB-8 was very inexpensive.

A lot of my friends use SN-10 and are very happy with them.

Brad

[StaPo]

Dne sobota, 15. zářÃ* 2012 6:34:13 UTC+2 K napsal(a):
> New owner (Not by choice) of SN10 driven by Volkslogger. Was going to tear out and replace with something newer but I thought Id try and see how I liked it. First, the technology seems ancient, some type of 9 point connector (What happened to SD cards or thumb drives) and the factory site seems incomplete and dated. Some of the downloads are not compatible with windows 7 (surprising, I thought just about everything was). What is really confusing is that the US dealer (Cumulus) shows the SN10 packaged with a GPS that is no longer available (!)and there is not a list of anything else that is compatible. Tried updating files and such on the unit and so far a bit of frustration and the paper manual that came with it is not much help. Seems odd for a computer that lists for over 3 grand and doesn't even have a built in GPS or meaningful display. Should I accept the fact that I have an expensive paper weight or should I dig some connectors out of the used parts bin and find a computer with an old version of Windows 95 and keep at it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Kirk

Do not be so strict about SN10, in "used items" category it has one of best value/price ratio (1200E/SN10, 1400E/SN10B usual re-seller prices), hardly one will buy this item new in 2012 year, although manufacturer still offers it.
Strong points:
1) super wind computation due to magnetic sensor inside (p.ex LX5000/7007 computers need for the same precision optional external magnetometer for about 500E)
2) dynamic final glide computer (taking current airspeed for calculation-not on LX5000 any version, only on LX7000/7007)
Try to get these 2 functions for that price from any other product...

Yes, SN10 has strange, not very intuitive control logic, if you have flown with LX products before, you will never like it (neither do I), but I think it is worth the money. I have sold my previous LX5000, bought SN10 for less money and I am (relatively) satisfied. I never use map or AAT functions on it (after 10 years of AAT competition flights with Winpilot on iPaq 3970 nobody can expect I will ever learn how/if this B/W rough display can be used for this),
but I can recommend SN10 as super wind/final glide computer. Permanently flown by me swithed to first custom page with all the required items shown there.

[Ventus_a]

New owner (Not by choice) of SN10 driven by Volkslogger. Was going to tear out and replace with something newer but I thought Id try and see how I liked it. First, the technology seems ancient, some type of 9 point connector (What happened to SD cards or thumb drives) and the factory site seems incomplete and dated. Some of the downloads are not compatible with windows 7 (surprising, I thought just about everything was). What is really confusing is that the US dealer (Cumulus) shows the SN10 packaged with a GPS that is no longer available (!)and there is not a list of anything else that is compatible. Tried updating files and such on the unit and so far a bit of frustration and the paper manual that came with it is not much help. Seems odd for a computer that lists for over 3 grand and doesn't even have a built in GPS or meaningful display. Should I accept the fact that I have an expensive paper weight or should I dig some connectors out of the used parts bin and find a computer with an old version of Windows 95 and keep at it?
Thanks
Kirk

Hi Kirk

I too have an SN10. I use both a PDA and a Win 7 laptop to upload/ update and download from the SN10, too cheap to get the USB adapter at this time :-)

As already noted Dave Nadler's site and the turnpoint exchange have just about everything you might need software and file wise. The simulator is great for getting to know the computer.

I'll be keeping mine for years to come

Colin

[[email protected]]

On Friday, September 14, 2012 11:34:13 PM UTC-5, K wrote:
> New owner (Not by choice) of SN10 driven by Volkslogger. Was going to tear out and replace with something newer but I thought Id try and see how I liked it. First, the technology seems ancient, some type of 9 point connector (What happened to SD cards or thumb drives) and the factory site seems incomplete and dated. Some of the downloads are not compatible with windows 7 (surprising, I thought just about everything was). What is really confusing is that the US dealer (Cumulus) shows the SN10 packaged with a GPS that is no longer available (!)and there is not a list of anything else that is compatible. Tried updating files and such on the unit and so far a bit of frustration and the paper manual that came with it is not much help. Seems odd for a computer that lists for over 3 grand and doesn't even have a built in GPS or meaningful display. Should I accept the fact that I have an expensive paper weight or should I dig some connectors out of the used parts bin and find a computer with an old version of Windows 95 and keep at it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Kirk

I wouldn't trade mine. I have an early version that I had upgraded to an SN10B some years ago. It's been highly reliable. The later versions of software have made downloading much easier, not requiring the pc to be read after starting the software. Just start the pc, and the application, take it to the plane, plug it in, and use the SN10 prompts. No need to see or answer any questions of the PC. The use of data sticks should be even easier. You can use just about any gps input you can find. I use an old Garmin, with a Colibri as a backup in case the Garmin batteries run down. It works, I can just unplug the Garmin and plug in the Colibri while on-the-fly. I might add that typically the old Etrex gps signal is much better than the Colibri's.
Dennis

[K]

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 9:53:55 AM UTC-6, kirk.stant wrote:
> On Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:59:20 AM UTC-7, K wrote:
>
> > Mike and Kev,
>
> >
>
> > Thanks for the response. So far we have one vote for Paper Weight and on vote for keep at it ;). Sorry for the tone, and I don't mind having an old instrument (Ive had an old Cambridge that I was no longer able to connect to a computer but an Oudie worked great for loading it), But the fact that this thing is still available new in what appears to be its early 1990s version is amazing.
>
> >
>
> > Is there an online forum anywhere. Also, can this thing be made to work with any of the PDA style devices (I am a See You Mobile customer so that would be best). If I want to load tasks or declarations am I stuck with the Volkslogger?
>
> >
>
> > Thanks Guys.
>
>
>
> Kirk, add another the the "keep it it's a great instrument" list. I've been using an SN10 for 12 years and still think it's one of the best gliding computers available - and so does Dick Butler, by the way, check out his Concordia cockpit!
>
>
>
> First to clear up some misconceptions: Just about any GPS will work - just need the right connector. I started with a Garmin Pilot 3, then a Themi, and now use a wired-in Garmin 35 puck. It will also work with a PowerFLARM, infact it has it's own dedicated Flarm pages that repeat what is displayed on the PF display.
>
>
>
> Next, the old way to update software and download flights required either a notebook with the right software and cable (the special cable is a dumb idea!) or a properly setup PDA, again with special software and the dumb cable. It works, and I can tell you how to set it up if you want to go that way, but it's a pain; the solution is to get the USB adaptor and all the hassle goes away. To load software or databases, just put them on a USB thumbdrive, stick them in the adaptor in the cockpit, and turn on the SN10. For downloading flights, after you land, just put in the thumbdrive and the flight automatically downloads.
>
>
>
> Turnpoint and airspace files are a bit of a chore to make, but there are tools online to help, and the turnpoint exchange has premade ones (http://soaringweb.org/TP/HomePage.html#toc).
>
>
>
> There are two versions out there, SN10 and SN10B, which have different hardware and displays but are apparently pretty similar. This is important when it comes to setting up some cables and doing software updates, so determine which kind yours is.
>
>
>
> Cumulus soaring is a good place to have a custom cable made to connect your SN10 to just about anything - just figure out what your want to hook up to and tell Paul and he can help. For example, he made me a custom panel cable that has my hardwired GPS35 (power from the SN10), and a cable for data with a RJ45 connector, and a cable with a DB9 for the USB adaptor. The vario and wind data from the SN10 goes into a K6Mux, where it is combined with the Flarm and GPS data from my PowerFLARM brick, and sent to an Oudie. All just plug and play.
>
>
>
> Finally, the place to go is http://www.nadler.com/sn10/SN10_Resource_Index.html, there is all the info you need, including the latest software updates, up to date manuals, and a nifty simulator that you can put on your PC and play around with to determine how to setup your custom pages, etc, and to check to see if your turnpoint and airspace files are good.
>
>
>
> Please feel free to contact me directly if/when you have more questions.
>
>
>
> So, yeah, it's old, kinda like a 1911A1 is old.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Kirk
>
> 66
>
>
>
> (PS I think Michael was trying to score an SN10 cheap!)

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement and to Kirk for the offer to help. I got the thumb drive converter working and took a flight last nite. I went off to a quite corner away from any airports and airways (Keept my head on a swivel just the same) and got acclimated to the SN10 for about two and a half hours. Some features I really like, and some I have not fully explored. I know these things are popular and I am determined to become familiar with it before I redo the panel. Thanks again.
Kirk

[Clay[_4_]]

Kirk, doesn't the fact that you pretty much felt like you needed ATC clearance to go fly with the thing say it all? Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. My SN10 went over the transom several months ago and I've never regretted it. Do yourself a favor, get the ClearNav and you'll be ready for an MAT from the get-go. No PDA needed. Dick Butler could fly with an abacus and be competitive at this point.

Clay

[kirk.stant]

On Sunday, September 16, 2012 8:05:50 AM UTC-7, Clay wrote:
> Kirk, doesn't the fact that you pretty much felt like you needed ATC clearance to go fly with the thing say it all? Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. My SN10 went over the transom several months ago and I've never regretted it. Do yourself a favor, get the ClearNav and you'll be ready for an MAT from the get-go. No PDA needed. Dick Butler could fly with an abacus and be competitive at this point.

Dick could probably afford a voice-controlled all glass cockpit, too - the fact that he sticks to the SN10 says something.

But it is true that people seem to either love or hate it. I find the logic and controls (except for AAT, and I've been bugging Dave Nadler about that for years!) simple and very easy to use inflight.

As far as a Clearnav - sure, but for a lot fewer $$ add a Oudie, or any big PNA running SeeYouMobile, XCSoar, or LK8000; couple to the SN10 for vario and wind data (and GPS, depending how you set it up). If you have a PowerFLARM, tie all three together and have a fully integrated system.

The simulator function is the way to learn how to use the SN10 - figure out how to set it up, load your local turnpoints and see how to make tasks, find a config for the custom page, so when you actually get airborne, it will be easy.

And use the remote - keeps from having to reach to the panel to change settings.

Kirk
Going flying now...

[Mike the Strike]

I added an Oudie to my SN10 and have most of the features of the newest computers at a fraction of the price. Let me assure you that not one of them is perfect.

Mike