Cost of Crop damage from glider landing in farmer's field?

[[email protected]]

I have landed in 8 farmer's fields over my 18 years of soaring in and around Utah and have always been met by the farmers and their families with great enthusiasm and interest in the beautiful ship from the sky that landed in their field...But not all farmers are always sober or appreciate the lines of a sailplane...

We are uninvited guests who may have just run down some of their crop. I received an interestingly threatening comment on one of my outlanding videos ( http://youtu.be/oJgSL4X6L-Y ) from a farmer who saw the video and started talking about things he would like to do to me if it were his field. It brings up the question of what is the actual monetary loss of crop (let's stick with hay or alfalfa for the Utah region) if a glider lands in their field?

A glider landing in a field will flatten 6 inches (main tire width) by around 300 feet of crop. Let's take wheat in this case. That is 150 square feet of flattened wheat or a 10'x15' area. This does not take into account the damage from walking around the field and retrieving the glider but I am assuming the glider would be walked out of the field by the gate that we landed near. Yes, I cut it too close on this video and should have left more room from the fences. The retrieve was very easy thought. ;)

Have any ideas or tips with dealing with angry farmers who don't see the beauty in soaring? Also, what does the law say about our right to land on their private property? We could either land there or crash there - the glider is coming down either way. Can they legally confiscate our glider? Demand ransom or a landing fee? How do you deal with a ****ed off farmer holding a shotgun?

Thanks for any stories or insights,
Bruno - B4

[K]

On Monday, September 17, 2012 9:28:18 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> I have landed in 8 farmer's fields over my 18 years of soaring in and around Utah and have always been met by the farmers and their families with great enthusiasm and interest in the beautiful ship from the sky that landed in their field...But not all farmers are always sober or appreciate the lines of a sailplane...
>
>
>
> We are uninvited guests who may have just run down some of their crop. I received an interestingly threatening comment on one of my outlanding videos ( http://youtu.be/oJgSL4X6L-Y ) from a farmer who saw the video and started talking about things he would like to do to me if it were his field. It brings up the question of what is the actual monetary loss of crop (let's stick with hay or alfalfa for the Utah region) if a glider lands in their field?
>
>
>
> A glider landing in a field will flatten 6 inches (main tire width) by around 300 feet of crop. Let's take wheat in this case. That is 150 square feet of flattened wheat or a 10'x15' area. This does not take into account the damage from walking around the field and retrieving the glider but I am assuming the glider would be walked out of the field by the gate that we landed near. Yes, I cut it too close on this video and should have left more room from the fences. The retrieve was very easy thought. ;)
>
>
>
> Have any ideas or tips with dealing with angry farmers who don't see the beauty in soaring? Also, what does the law say about our right to land on their private property? We could either land there or crash there - the glider is coming down either way. Can they legally confiscate our glider? Demand ransom or a landing fee? How do you deal with a ****ed off farmer holding a shotgun?
>
>
>
> Thanks for any stories or insights,
>
> Bruno - B4

I don't mind the shotgun so much. Its when the farmer tries to force you to marry his daughter that bothers me.

[Tony[_5_]]

On Monday, September 17, 2012 10:28:18 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> I have landed in 8 farmer's fields over my 18 years of soaring in and around Utah and have always been met by the farmers and their families with great enthusiasm and interest in the beautiful ship from the sky that landed in their field...But not all farmers are always sober or appreciate the lines of a sailplane... We are uninvited guests who may have just run down some of their crop. I received an interestingly threatening comment on one of my outlanding videos ( http://youtu.be/oJgSL4X6L-Y ) from a farmer who saw the video and started talking about things he would like to do to me if it were his field. It brings up the question of what is the actual monetary loss of crop (let's stick with hay or alfalfa for the Utah region) if a glider lands in their field? A glider landing in a field will flatten 6 inches (main tire width) by around 300 feet of crop. Let's take wheat in this case. That is 150 square feet of flattened wheat or a 10'x15' area. This does not take into account the damage from walking around the field and retrieving the glider but I am assuming the glider would be walked out of the field by the gate that we landed near. Yes, I cut it too close on this video and should have left more room from the fences. The retrieve was very easy thought. ;) Have any ideas or tips with dealing with angry farmers who don't see the beauty in soaring? Also, what does the law say about our right to land on their private property? We could either land there or crash there - the glider is coming down either way. Can they legally confiscate our glider? Demand ransom or a landing fee? How do you deal with a ****ed off farmer holding a shotgun? Thanks for any stories or insights, Bruno - B4

I have 7 field landings this season. Either I'm doing something right or Bruno's doing something wrong ;)

Luckily in my 40 or so off field landings i've never landed in actual crops.. Hay and Alfalfa fields have always been mowed, other fields have either been pre-planting or post-harvest. We're blessed around here by summer solstice with lots of cut wheat fields and the further west the more bare dirt fields.

its not illegal to land there, but we are responsible for any damages caused by the landing or retrieval. my general format when meeting new farmers is to introduce myself, thank them, and then apologize. If I had to land in crops it would be a major apology for damage done, let them know I will pay for damages, and then ask for suggestions on the least damaging way to remove the glider. Most damage is done getting the glider in the trailer, not during the landing.

One thing we have to be careful of here is driving out into wheat stubble fields. With hot exhaust and dry conditions its a real fire hazard. My last landout the county sheriff deputy and I talked to the little old lady who let us use her tractor to pull the glider up to the house.

If no landowner is to be found I generally just try to be as careful as possible while minimizing any impact to the land. A "leave no trace" landout is the goal. If crop damage was involved then some post flight effort would have to be put into finding the farmer.

As far as dollar amount I guess it pays to pay attention to average crop yields and prices in your area. If I thought they were trying to take advantage of me or if the dollar amount was really high I would probably just suggest that we get some pictures of the damage and make a claim to my insurance.

As far as the farmer with the shotgun I suppose we all would do whatever we thought was best in the situation, and preferably something that would allow us to live to soar another day.

[John Cochrane[_3_]]

>
> Have any ideas or tips with dealing with angry farmers who don't see the beauty in soaring? *Also, what does the law say about our right to land on their private property? We could either land there or crash there - the glider is coming down either way. Can they legally confiscate our glider? Demand ransom or a landing fee? How do you deal with a ****ed off farmer holding a shotgun?
>
> Thanks for any stories or insights,
> Bruno - B4

So far, I've been lucky with the one exception of a crew (not the
farmer) downwind of a balloon operation, who had gotten the idea that
expensive toys dropping from the sky meant beer money all around.

Seriously, carry out if there is any issue, and don't trample the
crop.

If things get bad, I've heard "oh, yes, we carry insurance for any
damage. We'll call the adjuster out to take pictures" can often end
the conversation.

If things get nasty, yes you are trespassing and responsible for
damage, but he cannot confiscate the glider, keep you from removing
it, and certainly not use a gun. If anything remotely like that
happens, call the sheriff / police immediately as the law is on your
side here. If he does stop you from removing it, he is now
responsible for damage to the glider. That might be a good point to
make once the sheriff has arrived.

John Cochrane

[Herbert kilian]

On Sep 17, 12:21Â*pm, Tony > wrote:
> On Monday, September 17, 2012 10:28:18 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > I have landed in 8 farmer's fields over my 18 years of soaring in and around Utah and have always been met by the farmers and their families with great enthusiasm and interest in the beautiful ship from the sky that landed in their field...But not all farmers are always sober or appreciate the lines of a sailplane... We are uninvited guests who may have just run down some of their crop. I received an interestingly threatening comment on one of my outlanding videos (http://youtu.be/oJgSL4X6L-Y) from a farmer who saw the video and started talking about things he would like to do to me if it were his field. It brings up the question of what is the actual monetary loss of crop (let's stick with hay or alfalfa for the Utah region) if a glider lands in their field? A glider landing in a field will flatten 6 inches (main tire width) by around 300 feet of crop. Let's take wheat in this case. That is 150 square feet of flattened wheat or a 10'x15' area. This does not take into account the damage from walking around the field and retrieving the glider but I am assuming the glider would be walked out of the field by the gate that we landed near. Yes, I cut it too close on this video and should have left more room from the fences. The retrieve was very easy thought. ;) Have any ideas or tips with dealing with angry farmers who don't see the beauty in soaring? Also, what does the law say about our right to land on their private property? We could either land there or crash there - the glider is coming down either way. Can they legally confiscate our glider? Demand ransom or a landing fee? How do you deal with a ****ed off farmer holding a shotgun? Thanks for any stories or insights, Bruno - B4
>
> I have 7 field landings this season. Either I'm doing something right or Bruno's doing something wrong ;)
>
> Luckily in my 40 or so off field landings i've never landed in actual crops. Hay and Alfalfa fields have always been mowed, other fields have either been pre-planting or post-harvest. We're blessed around here by summer solstice with lots of cut wheat fields and the further west the more bare dirt fields.
>
> its not illegal to land there, but we are responsible for any damages caused by the landing or retrieval. my general format when meeting new farmers is to introduce myself, thank them, and then apologize. If I had to land in crops it would be a major apology for damage done, let them know I will pay for damages, and then ask for suggestions on the least damaging way to remove the glider. Most damage is done getting the glider in the trailer, not during the landing.
>
> One thing we have to be careful of here is driving out into wheat stubble fields. With hot exhaust and dry conditions its a real fire hazard. My last landout the county sheriff deputy and I talked to the little old lady who let us use her tractor to pull the glider up to the house.
>
> If no landowner is to be found I generally just try to be as careful as possible while minimizing any impact to the land. A "leave no trace" landout is the goal. If crop damage was involved then some post flight effort would have to be put into finding the farmer.
>
> As far as dollar amount I guess it pays to pay attention to average crop yields and prices in your area. If I thought they were trying to take advantage of me or if the dollar amount was really high I would probably just suggest that we get some pictures of the damage and make a claim to my insurance.
>
> As far as the farmer with the shotgun I suppose we all would do whatever we thought was best in the situation, and preferably something that would allow us to live to soar another day.

Open up your discussion with the field owner by thanking him for
providing the perfect landing area that saved your sorry ass and that
you are sorry to intrude. Don't ever mention the crop damage and
discuss at length with him that you will very carefully walk the
glider out of the field minimizing any further damage. The thoughtful
farmer may even suggest that he will get his tractor or pickup and
pull you out of the field. Also inquire as to how the trailer and tow
vehicle should best approach the glider, do NOT make that decision on
your own.
As far as the monetary value of the crop is concerned, the farmer who
feels he is owed something will set the price (I never payed a dime in
33 years). Unless he is asking for hundreds of $'s, pay him and ask
your insurance to send a check.

[Tony[_5_]]

March 1979 Soaring has an article about the bad side of landing out.

Feb. 1982 Page 21 has a good short article dealing with some basic legalities.

[ProfChrisReed]

I always begin with the apology:

"I'm terribly sorry, but I've had to land my glider in your field." (though note I'm from the UK, where "Sorry" is the proper response to someone treading on your foot).

This makes two points: I know I'm being a nuisance, but I really had no choice.

Then I usually say something like "I don't think I've caused much/any damage, but you'll want to take a look." Once it's obvious that I've not destroyed the field, the conversation about removing the aircraft is usually very pleasant, and I've been lent tow vehicles/given a hand/etc.

It helps if you know enough about farming to show that you won't cause further damage, e.g. that you'll drive only on the tractor wheelings so as not to compact the soil, and so on.

Things can be different at ridge sites, where there are often known safe landing fields and a standard fee because they get used many times a year - the local club briefs visitors on those here.

All the other advice is good, but I've found that starting with the acknowledgment that you're an unwanted visitor is what's needed to form a good relationship.

[Wallace Berry[_2_]]

>
> I don't mind the shotgun so much. Its when the farmer tries to force you to
> marry his daughter that bothers me.

Not the farmer's daughter exactly, but a friend landed on a farm owned
by a single gal. She refused to allow the retrieve unless he promised to
take her to dinner.

[Tom Kelley]

On Monday, September 17, 2012 9:28:18 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> I have landed in 8 farmer's fields over my 18 years of soaring in and around Utah and have always been met by the farmers and their families with great enthusiasm and interest in the beautiful ship from the sky that landed in their field...But not all farmers are always sober or appreciate the lines of a sailplane...
>
>
>
> We are uninvited guests who may have just run down some of their crop. I received an interestingly threatening comment on one of my outlanding videos ( http://youtu.be/oJgSL4X6L-Y ) from a farmer who saw the video and started talking about things he would like to do to me if it were his field. It brings up the question of what is the actual monetary loss of crop (let's stick with hay or alfalfa for the Utah region) if a glider lands in their field?
>
>
>
> A glider landing in a field will flatten 6 inches (main tire width) by around 300 feet of crop. Let's take wheat in this case. That is 150 square feet of flattened wheat or a 10'x15' area. This does not take into account the damage from walking around the field and retrieving the glider but I am assuming the glider would be walked out of the field by the gate that we landed near. Yes, I cut it too close on this video and should have left more room from the fences. The retrieve was very easy thought. ;)
>
>
>
> Have any ideas or tips with dealing with angry farmers who don't see the beauty in soaring? Also, what does the law say about our right to land on their private property? We could either land there or crash there - the glider is coming down either way. Can they legally confiscate our glider? Demand ransom or a landing fee? How do you deal with a ****ed off farmer holding a shotgun?
>
>
>
> Thanks for any stories or insights,
>
> Bruno - B4

When the "officer" arrives, just tell him you were seeking "safe harbor". Those are the proper words to use. Yes, you do become responsible for damages, but the property owner can not hold your property, as you were seeking "safe harbor". If the damages are unreasonable, then a court of law becomes the party to settle damage claims.
May I suggest, since you live in the area, drive out to meet him. Find his friend who helped you and pay up what are the reasonable fees. Reading the You Tube posts, it seems he is praying for a women. Well, you might consider bring him a "doll baby".
Better to make it right, then have the "gods" put you back in the same field a second time. Worse is one of your friends lands their and all heck breaks loose!

Regards, #711.

[James Lee]

There are criminal, civil and practical aspects to this question.

Criminal: In most states, you are trespassing when you enter another's land without permission, or if you have been put on notice (by a sign, etc) that entry is forbidden. Usually there is an "emergency" defense to trespassing (and most other crimes), and having your glider fall out of the sky should count.

Civil: If you have damaged the crops, or any other property, you are civilly liable for their value, because it is foreseeable when you take off in a glider that you might land out. Specific laws are going to vary from state to state, but the landowner should not have the right to confiscate any of your property, or have a lien.

Practical considerations: If you run into an angry person, just leave. You don't want to be accused of assault or breach of peace by getting into an argument. If someone tries to detain you somehow, ask them to call law enforcement. If law enforcement wants to arrest you, go peacefully. The time and place for arguments is in the courtroom.

Of course, having any problems at all is very, very unlikely.

[C-FFKQ (42)]

As for costs, I landed in wheat 2 summers ago... just a week before the reaping! Near nil damage on the landing, but trampled a 1 metre by 100 metre path extracting the glider, plus took out about 5 square metres of corn turning the trailer around. Damages: $300 assessed by the guy running the harvester, agreed by the claims adjuster.

[Papa3[_2_]]

Was just updating my logbooks the other day, and came up with over 45 actual field landings in about 24 years of XC soaring (not counting grass airports or other official landing places). In all of that time, I've only had one even mildly annoyed guy, and it was because I landed in the half of a hay field that had been raked but not yet baled. He was actively working the half I landed in. After I got his son to help me move the glider to the side that had already been baled, I came back and started working with the son to load bales onto a cart. When he saw that, the farmer turned into my best friend. When it took a while for my crew to get there, he insisted on driving me down to the major intersection to wait for the trailer. Offered us dinner and drinks. You name it.

Other than that, I always follow the advice others have given. Thanks for your gorgeous field that saved my bacon. How's the crop this year. What's in all the fields. Etc.

[[email protected]]

I have heard of a pilot paying $250 for crop damage. After countless field landings I have never been asked. I had the crew bring a nice bottle of cab to an angry farmer. I usually keep two unused contest T-shirts available as gifts to landowners and their family. Photos with the farmer's children in the glider are a big hit. Dick Schreder used to give away a Sears catalog, but that wouldn't fly today.
Gentleman pilots send Christmas cards as thank you's. Rural mailboxes typically have names and road numbers, so you can surprise them later. Motorglider pilots don't know what they are missing.
Rick

[John[_30_]]

Yep, I had one guy bring me into the house while he made a phone call. 10
minutes later, his daughter comes over.....and he proceeds to tell me we're
ALL going out to dinner (for which I paid, of course).
She kept "ducking" from the window whenever the EMS ambulance drove
by......seems her husband was driving it!

True story.

(she WAS pretty!)

J4


>
> I don't mind the shotgun so much. Its when the farmer tries to force you
> to
> marry his daughter that bothers me.

Not the farmer's daughter exactly, but a friend landed on a farm owned
by a single gal. She refused to allow the retrieve unless he promised to
take her to di

[Tony[_5_]]

There was a time when I was single and flying XC, and I never met any farmers daughters. I guess I was picking the wrong fields.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

I think most of us motorglider pilots did our share of field landings
before we got the motorglider, and our spouses did their share of
retrieves. My wife says the motorglider is the best glider we've ever
had, because it always gets to where it's supposed be! And, with SPOT in
the motorglider, she's a happy camper indeed.

On 9/17/2012 6:20 PM, wrote:
> I have heard of a pilot paying $250 for crop damage. After countless
> field landings I have never been asked. I had the crew bring a nice
> bottle of cab to an angry farmer. I usually keep two unused contest
> T-shirts available as gifts to landowners and their family. Photos
> with the farmer's children in the glider are a big hit. Dick Schreder
> used to give away a Sears catalog, but that wouldn't fly today.
> Gentleman pilots send Christmas cards as thank you's. Rural mailboxes
> typically have names and road numbers, so you can surprise them
> later. Motorglider pilots don't know what they are missing. Rick
>

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

[son_of_flubber]

This thread is very useful for a naive new pilot who's not landed out yet.

Based on my training, I had been planning to tell the angry farmer that my landing out in his field is 'no big deal', that it is a normal and expected part of the sport, and that in anticipation of landing in his field, I had been practicing spot landings for months. I had been planning on telling him that I probably could have made it back to the airport, but (because I'm entirely secure in my masculinity) that I had nothing to prove by trying to stretch my final glide, and that it had been drummed into me that landing in his field was a more prudent choice. In fact my flying buddies had made it clear that they expected that I would land out one day, it happens to everyone, and that they were at the ready to come get me, and that I should never hesitate to land out when the time came.

After reading this thread, I now understand that should an angry farmer show up, that I should act 'shaken up' and emphasize that if it were not for his nicely harrowed field, that I would be hanging upside down and unconscious in the trees somewhere. This gives the farmer a much better story to tell and it's sorta true. I probably will be a bit keyed up, and landing in a soft field is always preferable to landing in the trees.

No more complaining about the news media reports of "an emergency glider landing in local field, that by a stroke of luck resulted in no injuries or damage".

(Just kidding of course.)

[howdy]

Of all the outlandings I've had (lots!) I've only had two that could have gone awry. In one, another glider pilot had landed there, needlessly damaged the crop and departed. The farmer was none too happy to see me. I very carefully de-rigged and went to see him. I told him that I grew up on a farm (true) and therefore knew how important crops were, and how not to damage them. I even apologized profusely for my fellow aviator's lack of judgement. In the end, I left my phone number and told him to call if it looked like there was any damage. I also complimented the heck out of his dairy operation!

In the other, as soon as I said Hi to the farmer, his first words were, "I need the name of your insurance company", because I had damaged his young corn crop (about 2 inches high). Again, I told him about my childhood on a farm, but he wasn't persuaded. I told him that I had a camera, so lets go look and see how much I damaged, so we can report it, and he agreed. All those times that I practiced staying on a centerline while landing payed off.. Didn't even come close to a single plant in 300 feet of rollout! Then didn't step on anything walking out either. He couldn't argue because he couldn't find anything. He was still annoyed, but helped me take it apart. He got an SSA calender from me that Christmas. I later found out that his area was in a drought, and I suspect he was looking for some kind of a payout in a bad crop year. Just my suspicion. I've heard of that happening before.

Bruno, I don't know what you did, or are planning to do but, as was said before, it's an emergency landing, be apologetic, don't try to BS them if it's not true, call the local sheriff if there's a problem and he'll remind the farmer that he's responsible for damage while it's on his property and lastly, let the insurance company handle all payments. They can better estimate crop damage from the pictures that (I hope) you took. If you make a payout and word gets out to the locals, everyone will want a payout, damage or not. And leave his daughter alone, Romeo!

MK