Throw over yokes

[Steve P]

Can I get some opinions on using a throw over yoke for training? I'm
more concerned with high performance endorsements than I am instrument
ratings, however I am curious about using practicality of using a throw
over yoke for practice approaches under the hood. I read 61.31 (f) to
say that a high performance endorsement requires "training". I also
read 91.109 to require dual controls except for instrument training
when "the safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted
safely." So am I right in concluding that a high performance
endorsement cannot be attained using bonanza with a throw over yoke?

Steve P

[EDR]

In article et>,
Steve P > wrote:

> Can I get some opinions on using a throw over yoke for training? I'm
> more concerned with high performance endorsements than I am instrument
> ratings, however I am curious about using practicality of using a throw
> over yoke for practice approaches under the hood. I read 61.31 (f) to
> say that a high performance endorsement requires "training". I also
> read 91.109 to require dual controls except for instrument training
> when "the safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted
> safely." So am I right in concluding that a high performance
> endorsement cannot be attained using bonanza with a throw over yoke?

It can be done, but finding a CFI willing to do it may be another
matter. In addition to the throw-over yoke, there may not be any brakes
on the right side. Also, on the right side, the rudder peddals may fold
down.

[Roger Halstead]

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:51:47 GMT, Steve P >
wrote:

>Can I get some opinions on using a throw over yoke for training? I'm
>more concerned with high performance endorsements than I am instrument
>ratings, however I am curious about using practicality of using a throw
>over yoke for practice approaches under the hood. I read 61.31 (f) to
>say that a high performance endorsement requires "training". I also
>read 91.109 to require dual controls except for instrument training
>when "the safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted
>safely." So am I right in concluding that a high performance
>endorsement cannot be attained using bonanza with a throw over yoke?

That's my take on it.
Several in the area have rented dual yokes and had them temporarily
installed for their training.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Steve P

[BTIZ]

folding rudder pedals can be brought up during prefight..

single throw over yokes are only good for instrument work if the instructor
is comfortable with it..

BT

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
> In article et>,
> Steve P > wrote:
>
> > Can I get some opinions on using a throw over yoke for training? I'm
> > more concerned with high performance endorsements than I am instrument
> > ratings, however I am curious about using practicality of using a throw
> > over yoke for practice approaches under the hood. I read 61.31 (f) to
> > say that a high performance endorsement requires "training". I also
> > read 91.109 to require dual controls except for instrument training
> > when "the safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted
> > safely." So am I right in concluding that a high performance
> > endorsement cannot be attained using bonanza with a throw over yoke?
>
> It can be done, but finding a CFI willing to do it may be another
> matter. In addition to the throw-over yoke, there may not be any brakes
> on the right side. Also, on the right side, the rudder peddals may fold
> down.

[Rod Madsen]

Which mike does the PTT switch activate. When "thrown over", is the new PIC
able to talk on the radio?

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:GCHMb.6157$zs4.5053@fed1read01...
> folding rudder pedals can be brought up during prefight..
>
> single throw over yokes are only good for instrument work if the
instructor
> is comfortable with it..
>
> BT
>
> "EDR" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article et>,
> > Steve P > wrote:
> >
> > > Can I get some opinions on using a throw over yoke for training? I'm
> > > more concerned with high performance endorsements than I am instrument
> > > ratings, however I am curious about using practicality of using a
throw
> > > over yoke for practice approaches under the hood. I read 61.31 (f) to
> > > say that a high performance endorsement requires "training". I also
> > > read 91.109 to require dual controls except for instrument training
> > > when "the safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted
> > > safely." So am I right in concluding that a high performance
> > > endorsement cannot be attained using bonanza with a throw over yoke?
> >
> > It can be done, but finding a CFI willing to do it may be another
> > matter. In addition to the throw-over yoke, there may not be any brakes
> > on the right side. Also, on the right side, the rudder peddals may fold
> > down.
>
>

[Ron Natalie]

"EDR" > wrote in message ...

>
> It can be done, but finding a CFI willing to do it may be another
> matter. In addition to the throw-over yoke, there may not be any brakes
> on the right side. Also, on the right side, the rudder peddals may fold
> down.

Brakes are only at the discretion of the instructor. The basic flight
controls are not. The specific exemption exists for safety pilots and
certain instrument instruction only.

[BTIZ]

> Which mike does the PTT switch activate. When "thrown over", is the new
PIC
> able to talk on the radio?

Normally the "right" seat PPT is a button on the panel.. that does not
change with the placement of the yoke.. that's complicated electronics..

But to answer your question.. in most configurations.. the right seat is
able to talk on the radio.. but not with the PPT on the yoke.. that is the
Left seats PPT.

At least in the Bonanza's I fly.

BT

[Michael]

Steve P > wrote
> Can I get some opinions on using a throw over yoke for training?

Yes. You might even get some informed opinions from someone who has
done it.

> I'm
> more concerned with high performance endorsements than I am instrument
> ratings, however I am curious about using practicality of using a throw
> over yoke for practice approaches under the hood.

With a competent instructor, it's just not a problem. Flying the
airplane from the right seat with the yoke one the left (working the
yoke with the left hand) is not really a big deal. BTDT. I've given
instrument dual in actual IMC (including circling approaches to
minimums) in a Bo with a throwover yoke, and would not hesitate to do
so again. Any instrument instructor who isn't comfortable with that
shouldn't really be teaching in a Bo anyway.

> I read 61.31 (f) to
> say that a high performance endorsement requires "training". I also
> read 91.109 to require dual controls except for instrument training
> when "the safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted
> safely." So am I right in concluding that a high performance
> endorsement cannot be attained using bonanza with a throw over yoke?

Your reading of the rules is correct. The only time a throwover yoke
is acceptable is for instrument instruction in single engine
airplanes.

In reality, an exemption exists for Barons (which are twins) so I
would be surprised if there wasn't one for Bonanzas.

Michael