Strange wording in Commercial experience requirement

[David Brooks]

Joining together the disjointed bits of parpagraph, the ASEL Commercial
night flying experience requirement is (pardon the long-windedness):

a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane
category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of
flight time as a pilot that
consists of at least...10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane
on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which
includes at least...5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10
landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an
airport with an operating control tower.

(many of my night flights were with pax or my instrument instructor).

Does the phrase "10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the
areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1)" make any sense, or is it a
cut-and-paste error lifted from the differently worded Private requirements?
Note the word "training" does not appear in the joined-up requirement. Do I
have to do go-arounds, performance maneuvers and ground reference maneuvers,
stalls, etc, during those solo night flights? No, I didn't think so.

I didn't find this referenced in the FAQ.

-- David Brooks

[Bob Gardner]

Without commenting on the specifics of your question, I must note that the
"strange wording" has existed since Part 61 was modified July 30, 1997, and
the world has not come to an end. Maybe everyone is out of step but you,
David.

Bob Gardner

"David Brooks" > wrote in message
...
> Joining together the disjointed bits of parpagraph, the ASEL Commercial
> night flying experience requirement is (pardon the long-windedness):
>
> a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane
> category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of
> flight time as a pilot that
> consists of at least...10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane
> on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which
> includes at least...5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and
10
> landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at
an
> airport with an operating control tower.
>
> (many of my night flights were with pax or my instrument instructor).
>
> Does the phrase "10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on
the
> areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1)" make any sense, or is it a
> cut-and-paste error lifted from the differently worded Private
requirements?
> Note the word "training" does not appear in the joined-up requirement. Do
I
> have to do go-arounds, performance maneuvers and ground reference
maneuvers,
> stalls, etc, during those solo night flights? No, I didn't think so.
>
> I didn't find this referenced in the FAQ.
>
> -- David Brooks
>
>

[BJAMES1]

>Joining together the disjointed bits of parpagraph, the ASEL Commercial
>night flying experience requirement is (pardon the long-windedness):
>
>a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane
>category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of
>flight time as a pilot that
>consists of at least...10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane
>on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which
>includes at least...5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10
>landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an
>airport with an operating control tower.
>
>(many of my night flights were with pax or my instrument instructor).
>
>Does the phrase "10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the
>areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1)" make any sense, or is it a
>cut-and-paste error lifted from the differently worded Private requirements?
>Note the word "training" does not appear in the joined-up requirement. Do I
>have to do go-arounds, performance maneuvers and ground reference maneuvers,
>stalls, etc, during those solo night flights? No, I didn't think so.
>
>I didn't find this referenced in the FAQ.
>
>-- David Brooks
>
>

Uh....David, other than your questions about night time maneuvers (which the
FARs say absolutely nothing about), what is your question? The answer to that
one is exactly the same as anything else in the FARs; The FARs are Law. AIM is
advisory. Unless otherwise stated in the FARs, you can stand on one leg and
rotate while saluting in a tutu while you do your solo take offs and landings.
They don't care. Unless it says you can't....you can....but it's unlikely you
have to.

This, by the way, will work for 99% of any regulatory questions you may have.

Now....stop goofing around on the internet and go flying.

BJ

[Brien K. Meehan]

"David Brooks" > wrote in message >...
> Does the phrase "10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the
> areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1)" make any sense, or is it a
> cut-and-paste error lifted from the differently worded Private requirements?
> Note the word "training" does not appear in the joined-up requirement. Do I
> have to do go-arounds, performance maneuvers and ground reference maneuvers,
> stalls, etc, during those solo night flights? No, I didn't think so.

It does sound awkward, but it makes sense.

61.129(a) requires you to log 250 hours. The key verb driving the
rest of the section is "log," and that will clear things up ...

61.129(a)(4) requires 10 of those 250 logged hours to be solo
single-engine working on the proficiency areas listed in 61.127(b)(1).
Just having 10 solo hours isn't useful, you have to spend them, and
log them, working on proficiency areas.

61.129(a)(4)(ii) requires 5 of those 10 hours to be in night VFR, etc.
Yes, they need to be on the proficiency areas. You don't have to do
ALL the proficiency areas on one flight, so, you don't have to do ALL
the proficiency areas at night (e.g. ground reference maneuvers), but
you have to do at least SOME of them (e.g. airport operations,
takeoffs, landings). And log them.

[David Brooks]

> Now....stop goofing around on the internet and go flying.

Thanks - I'm planning to go flying to commercial standards tonight, if the
weather stays reasonable. I'd offer Bob or CJ a ride, but it has to be solo.

-- David Brooks

[David Brooks]

"Brien K. Meehan" > wrote in message
om...
> "David Brooks" > wrote in message
>...
> > Does the phrase "10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on
the
> > areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1)" make any sense, or is it
a
> > cut-and-paste error lifted from the differently worded Private
requirements?
> > Note the word "training" does not appear in the joined-up requirement.
Do I
> > have to do go-arounds, performance maneuvers and ground reference
maneuvers,
> > stalls, etc, during those solo night flights? No, I didn't think so.
>
(summarizing) It does sound awkward, but it makes sense...log 250 hours...10
of which are on proficiency areas...5 of which are at night

Thanks, Brian, you pointed out what I missed. I still think the English is
awkward, and it doesn't call the solo work "training" (cf the Private
requirement), but I get it. So, last night, I had a fine time preflighting,
taking off, landing (regular and short-field techniques), navigating, and
post-flighting, to commercial standards. The flying bit was nice too.

When I turned base back home, a rag that was tucked up by the left side
airvent came loose and dangled down. In my peripheral vision, my first
impression was that of a hand coming through the vent, causing a certain
adrenaline rush. My second thought was "damn, I won't be able to log solo".

To Bob: don't be so unkind. There are others around who try to compare what
the FARs say with what they mean, even if we all know what they mean. Or am
I coming across like Steve "315 degree downwind entry" McNicoll?

-- David Brooks