Does anyone know if Wesley Clark was ever a pilot?

[R.Hubbell]

Does anyone know if Wesley Clark was ever a pilot?
What do people here think of the General?

In case you missed it he's running for President.



R. Hubbell

[Ed]

Here's a link to Wes Clark's website

http://www.clark04.com

According to the site, he was/is not an aviator; check out the
About Wes Clark section for his biography at http://clark04.com/about/

His stand on some aviation-related matters is summarized at
http://clark04.com/issues/airtranssecurity/ with references to
the av business from a security perspective - nothing regarding GA
specifically.

[R.Hubbell]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:36:20 GMT "Ed" > wrote:

> Here's a link to Wes Clark's website
>
> http://www.clark04.com
>
> According to the site, he was/is not an aviator; check out the
> About Wes Clark section for his biography at http://clark04.com/about/
>
> His stand on some aviation-related matters is summarized at
> http://clark04.com/issues/airtranssecurity/ with references to

The maintenance side of airline ops are wide open. And the fact
that most cargo goes on unchecked is unfortunate too.

But the country will never be secure and so they will do those
things that are most visible to the masses.

BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy. Military guy with compassion
and sensibility and intelligence.

R. Hubbell

> the av business from a security perspective - nothing regarding GA
> specifically.
>
>

[Wdtabor]

In article >, "R.Hubbell"
> writes:

>
>BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy. Military guy with compassion
>and sensibility and intelligence.
>

Really?

Which solid Clark do you mean? The one who testified twice before Congress
saying the invasion of Iraq was necessary and urgent or the one who says he was
consistently opposed to the war?

Is the compassionate Clark the one who said that he supports abortion ON
DEMAND, regardless of medical need, right up to the moment of birth?

Just want to be sure how you define solidity and compassion.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[Gig Giacona]

"Wdtabor" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
"R.Hubbell"
> > writes:
>
> >
> >BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy. Military guy with compassion
> >and sensibility and intelligence.
> >
>
> Really?
>
> Which solid Clark do you mean? The one who testified twice before Congress
> saying the invasion of Iraq was necessary and urgent or the one who says
he was
> consistently opposed to the war?
>
> Is the compassionate Clark the one who said that he supports abortion ON
> DEMAND, regardless of medical need, right up to the moment of birth?
>
> Just want to be sure how you define solidity and compassion.
>

Or it could be the Clark that the most decorated US officer during the
Vietnam War thinks is pretty much a dick head. My words not his. Here are
his words.

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0599clark.htm

[Dan Luke]

"R.Hubbell" wrote:
> BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy.

Clark is a squirrel, according to more than one officer who served with
him.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

[R.Hubbell]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:52:33 -0600 "Dan Luke" > wrote:

> "R.Hubbell" wrote:
> > BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy.
>
> Clark is a squirrel, according to more than one officer who served with
> him.


I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.


R. Hubbell

> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
> (remove pants to reply by email)
>
>

[R.Hubbell]

On 16 Jan 2004 18:59:20 GMT (Wdtabor) wrote:

> In article >, "R.Hubbell"
> > writes:
>
> >
> >BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy. Military guy with compassion
> >and sensibility and intelligence.
> >
>
> Really?
>
> Which solid Clark do you mean? The one who testified twice before Congress
> saying the invasion of Iraq was necessary and urgent or the one who says he was
> consistently opposed to the war?

If you actually were familiar with the testimony you would not
have drawn that false conclusion.


Read it for yourself:

http://armedservices.house.gov/schedules/2002.html


>
> Is the compassionate Clark the one who said that he supports abortion ON
> DEMAND, regardless of medical need, right up to the moment of birth?

Should we take your word for it? Any one taking your word for anything
would have to have built up some immunities to your vitriol.
Let's see the facts.

>
> Just want to be sure how you define solidity and compassion.

The one that served our country in the military and was highly decorated
for that service. He won't have to rely on his Daddy to get him a job
that's for certain.

Yes, he's the one alright.


R. Hubbell

>
> Don
>
> --
> Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
> PP-ASEL
> Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[R.Hubbell]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:02:47 -0600 "Gig Giacona" > wrote:

>
> "Wdtabor" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> "R.Hubbell"
> > > writes:
> >
> > >
> > >BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy. Military guy with compassion
> > >and sensibility and intelligence.
> > >
> >
> > Really?
> >
> > Which solid Clark do you mean? The one who testified twice before Congress
> > saying the invasion of Iraq was necessary and urgent or the one who says
> he was
> > consistently opposed to the war?
> >
> > Is the compassionate Clark the one who said that he supports abortion ON
> > DEMAND, regardless of medical need, right up to the moment of birth?
> >
> > Just want to be sure how you define solidity and compassion.
> >
>
> Or it could be the Clark that the most decorated US officer during the
> Vietnam War thinks is pretty much a dick head. My words not his. Here are
> his words.
>
> http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0599clark.htm

Sounds like someone that's a bit bitter, maybe because he never made the rank
of General.


R. Hubbell

>
>

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"R.Hubbell" > wrote:
> > "R.Hubbell" wrote:
> > > BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy.
> >
> > Clark is a squirrel, according to more than one officer who served with
> > him.
>
>
> I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.


The upper ranks of the military are at least as rife with politics as
the upper ranks of most large corporations--in other words, actual
talent and qualification is often not considered criteria for promotion.



JKG

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"R.Hubbell" > wrote:
> But the country will never be secure and so they will do those
> things that are most visible to the masses.
>
> BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy. Military guy with compassion
> and sensibility and intelligence.


He's a guy who solidly can't decide what he believes. Iraq has WMD's in
front of Congress and a regime change is a must, but on the campaign
trail he appears to be contradicting himself. That type of thing seems
to be going around, though, since Howard Dean becomes a big Christian
when he's south of the Mason-Dixon line but isn't so much of a Christian
when he comes back north.

Bottom line is that the integrity of both men is questionable.



JKG

[Wdtabor]

>
>I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.
>
>

What, like the part about him being removed from command for reasons having to
do with personal integrity?

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[R.Hubbell]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:22:12 GMT Jonathan Goodish > wrote:

> In article >,
> "R.Hubbell" > wrote:
> > > "R.Hubbell" wrote:
> > > > BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy.
> > >
> > > Clark is a squirrel, according to more than one officer who served with
> > > him.
> >
> >
> > I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.
>
>
> The upper ranks of the military are at least as rife with politics as
> the upper ranks of most large corporations--in other words, actual
> talent and qualification is often not considered criteria for promotion.

Does not apply to Wesley Clark.

He's got the talent and the qualifications.


From Wesley Clark:

"You can't build a strong Army just with great generals;
you have to have great people at every rank. You have to
give everyone a chance to be all you can be.' It's true for
the United States Army, and it's true for the United States."


R. Hubbell

>
>
>
> JKG

[R.Hubbell]

On 17 Jan 2004 01:26:09 GMT (Wdtabor) wrote:

> >
> >I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.
> >
> >
>
> What, like the part about him being removed from command for reasons having to
> do with personal integrity?

You're still expecting us to take your word for it? His exemplary service
in the military speaks for itself.

Just more vacuous vitriol.



R. Hubbell

>
> Don
>
> --
> Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
> PP-ASEL
> Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[R.Hubbell]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:25:56 GMT Jonathan Goodish > wrote:

> In article >,
> "R.Hubbell" > wrote:
> > But the country will never be secure and so they will do those
> > things that are most visible to the masses.
> >
> > BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy. Military guy with compassion
> > and sensibility and intelligence.
>
>
> He's a guy who solidly can't decide what he believes. Iraq has WMD's in
> front of Congress and a regime change is a must, but on the campaign
> trail he appears to be contradicting himself. That type of thing seems


Iraq had WMDs, we sold them to Iraq. Did you miss that part out
of convenience or just not paying attention? :)

Why not read the transcripts your self:

http://armedservices.house.gov/schedules/2002.html

> to be going around, though, since Howard Dean becomes a big Christian
> when he's south of the Mason-Dixon line but isn't so much of a Christian
> when he comes back north.

Well Dubya didn't bother with all that during his campaign, he knew his
Dad and his brother would pull out the win for him.


>
> Bottom line is that the integrity of both men is questionable.


The bottom line is that Wesley Clark has more integrity in his little
toe than Dubya could ever hope to have.


R. Hubbell
>
>
>
> JKG

[Lisa Hughes]

"R.Hubbell" wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:25:56 GMT Jonathan Goodish > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > "R.Hubbell" > wrote:
> > > But the country will never be secure and so they will do those
> > > things that are most visible to the masses.
> > >
> > > BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy. Military guy with compassion
> > > and sensibility and intelligence.
> >
> >
> > He's a guy who solidly can't decide what he believes. Iraq has WMD's in
> > front of Congress and a regime change is a must, but on the campaign
> > trail he appears to be contradicting himself. That type of thing seems
>
> Iraq had WMDs, we sold them to Iraq. Did you miss that part out
> of convenience or just not paying attention? :)
>
> Why not read the transcripts your self:
>
> http://armedservices.house.gov/schedules/2002.html
>
> > to be going around, though, since Howard Dean becomes a big Christian
> > when he's south of the Mason-Dixon line but isn't so much of a Christian
> > when he comes back north.
>
> Well Dubya didn't bother with all that during his campaign, he knew his
> Dad and his brother would pull out the win for him.

Yeah right. I'll bet it was the black helicopters too, right?

> > Bottom line is that the integrity of both men is questionable.
>
> The bottom line is that Wesley Clark has more integrity in his little
> toe than Dubya could ever hope to have.

Keep dreaming. Dubya says what he does and does what he says. Wesley Clark swings
his positions around like a human weathervane in a storm. One minute he's for
disarming Saddam with force and knows that Iraq had weapons capable of causing
mass destructive, the next he says he never was. Unfortunately for him, his quotes
are in the congressional record, and even the audio/video exists.

On taxes: "Mr. Clark's "reform" is essentially an updated version of the tax
jujitsu that Candidate Clinton offered back in 1992. Promise to raise taxes only on
the upper middle class and wealthy, while offering to cut taxes on a slew of
"middle-class families." Once Mr. Clinton took office, you may painfully recall,
the middle-class tax cut vanished and everyone got socked with some kind of tax
hike.

"We've been waiting a long time for another Democrat to grab the mantle of tax
reform the way Bill Bradley and Dick Gephardt did back in the 1980s, so we studied
Wesley Clark's proposal on Monday with interest. The kindest thing we can say about
it is that we sure hope the retired general knows more about war than he does about
taxes.
....
The major difference today is that Mr. Clark is proposing to raise marginal
income-tax rates even higher than Mr. Clinton did. He'd not only repeal the Bush
tax cuts, thus restoring the top Clinton marginal rate of 39.6%, but he'd pile on
another five-point rate surcharge on incomes of more than $1 million.

Yes, friends, the old "millionaire surtax" ploy. The last time we roasted this
chestnut was also in 1992, except that once Mr. Clinton took office the definition
of millionaire became anyone making more than $250,000. Mr. Clark is proposing to
raise the top marginal rate on income to 44.6%--or about 46.6% counting the current
exemption and deduction phase-outs--higher than anytime since the pre-1986 rate of
50% when there were many more tax loopholes. And Mr. Clark keeps hinting that
Howard Dean is unelectable in November."
WSJ 1/7/2004

""President Bush and Tony Blair should be proud of their resolve in the face of so
much doubt." -Wesley Clark op-ed London Times 10 April 2003

[Lisa Hughes]

"R.Hubbell" wrote:

> On 17 Jan 2004 01:26:09 GMT (Wdtabor) wrote:
>
> > >
> > >I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > What, like the part about him being removed from command for reasons having to
> > do with personal integrity?
>
> You're still expecting us to take your word for it? His exemplary service
> in the military speaks for itself.

History has shown clearly that generals don't make good Presidents. Why would
somebody whose occupation is a soldier be better/worse than anybody else for
President?

[John Gaquin]

"R.Hubbell" > wrote in message >
> Does not apply to Wesley Clark.
>
> He's got the talent and the qualifications.
>
>
> From Wesley Clark:
>
> "You can't build a strong Army just with great generals;
> you have to have great people at every rank. You have to
> give everyone a chance to be all you can be.' It's true for
> the United States Army, and it's true for the United States."

It is easy to put fine words to paper. But the fact remains that Wes Clark
spent 30+ years in the Army, and there probably aren't half a dozen men who
served with him who would give him a drink from a water hose. That fact
alone speaks louder than any position paper.

[R.Hubbell]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:33:48 -0500 Lisa Hughes > wrote:

>
>
> "R.Hubbell" wrote:
>
> > On 17 Jan 2004 01:26:09 GMT (Wdtabor) wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > >I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > What, like the part about him being removed from command for reasons having to
> > > do with personal integrity?
> >
> > You're still expecting us to take your word for it? His exemplary service
> > in the military speaks for itself.
>
> History has shown clearly that generals don't make good Presidents. Why would
> somebody whose occupation is a soldier be better/worse than anybody else for
> President?
>

Not sure what you're talking about, did you post to the wrong message?

In regards to Wesley Clark's integrity his exemplary service in the military
speaks for itself.

R. Hubbell

[R.Hubbell]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:31:52 -0500 Lisa Hughes > wrote:

>
>
> "R.Hubbell" wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:25:56 GMT Jonathan Goodish > wrote:
> >
> > > In article >,
> > > "R.Hubbell" > wrote:
> > > > But the country will never be secure and so they will do those
> > > > things that are most visible to the masses.
> > > >
> > > > BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy. Military guy with compassion
> > > > and sensibility and intelligence.
> > >
> > >
> > > He's a guy who solidly can't decide what he believes. Iraq has WMD's in
> > > front of Congress and a regime change is a must, but on the campaign
> > > trail he appears to be contradicting himself. That type of thing seems
> >
> > Iraq had WMDs, we sold them to Iraq. Did you miss that part out
> > of convenience or just not paying attention? :)
> >
> > Why not read the transcripts your self:
> >
> > http://armedservices.house.gov/schedules/2002.html
> >
> > > to be going around, though, since Howard Dean becomes a big Christian
> > > when he's south of the Mason-Dixon line but isn't so much of a Christian
> > > when he comes back north.
> >
> > Well Dubya didn't bother with all that during his campaign, he knew his
> > Dad and his brother would pull out the win for him.
>
> Yeah right. I'll bet it was the black helicopters too, right?



That's a funny response. If there were any helicopters the wouldn't have
been black, that's too obvious. Yeah it's just a coincidence that his
brother was the governor of the state in question.



>
> > > Bottom line is that the integrity of both men is questionable.
> >
> > The bottom line is that Wesley Clark has more integrity in his little
> > toe than Dubya could ever hope to have.
>
> Keep dreaming. Dubya says what he does and does what he says. Wesley Clark swings



Dubya does what his handlers tell him to say. Heck the only thing he wants out
the office is to make sure he gets even for his Dad. I hope it wasn't anyone
you loved that he sent over to do his dirty work.




> his positions around like a human weathervane in a storm. One minute he's for
> disarming Saddam with force and knows that Iraq had weapons capable of causing
> mass destructive, the next he says he never was. Unfortunately for him, his quotes
> are in the congressional record, and even the audio/video exists.


Yeah read it for yourself http://armedservices.house.gov/schedules/2002.html

Of course he knows that he had WMDs the U.S. sold them to him. I guess you missed
that too. Lots of people seem to forget things. Little details that happened
long ago.


>
> On taxes: "Mr. Clark's "reform" is essentially an updated version of the tax
> jujitsu that Candidate Clinton offered back in 1992. Promise to raise taxes only on
> the upper middle class and wealthy, while offering to cut taxes on a slew of
> "middle-class families." Once Mr. Clinton took office, you may painfully recall,
> the middle-class tax cut vanished and everyone got socked with some kind of tax
> hike.


So you don't like to have to pay taxes? So Dubya's plan is to sign every single
spending bill since in office and not raise taxes. A 5 year old can figure that
won't work. But I guess, like global warming, we'll let future generations
sort it all out. We're too busy settling scores and acting as the global
sociopath.


>
> "We've been waiting a long time for another Democrat to grab the mantle of tax
> reform the way Bill Bradley and Dick Gephardt did back in the 1980s, so we studied
> Wesley Clark's proposal on Monday with interest. The kindest thing we can say about
> it is that we sure hope the retired general knows more about war than he does about
> taxes.
> ...
> The major difference today is that Mr. Clark is proposing to raise marginal
> income-tax rates even higher than Mr. Clinton did. He'd not only repeal the Bush
> tax cuts, thus restoring the top Clinton marginal rate of 39.6%, but he'd pile on
> another five-point rate surcharge on incomes of more than $1 million.


Good! The country needs better security and cleaner air and water. We need to
increase education spending too.


>
> Yes, friends, the old "millionaire surtax" ploy. The last time we roasted this
> chestnut was also in 1992, except that once Mr. Clinton took office the definition
> of millionaire became anyone making more than $250,000. Mr. Clark is proposing to
> raise the top marginal rate on income to 44.6%--or about 46.6% counting the current
> exemption and deduction phase-outs--higher than anytime since the pre-1986 rate of
> 50% when there were many more tax loopholes. And Mr. Clark keeps hinting that
> Howard Dean is unelectable in November."
> WSJ 1/7/2004

There's no shortage of loopholes. And it's time to lessen the current tax inequality
that exists here.

>
> ""President Bush and Tony Blair should be proud of their resolve in the face of so
> much doubt." -Wesley Clark op-ed London Times 10 April 2003

That's a nice thing to say. They should be proud of their resolve. But the will
have to see the truth come out about the whole thing. Then we will really see
how their resolve holds up.


R. Hubbell

>

[R.Hubbell]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:23:36 -0500 "John Gaquin" > wrote:

>
> "R.Hubbell" > wrote in message >
> > Does not apply to Wesley Clark.
> >
> > He's got the talent and the qualifications.
> >
> >
> > From Wesley Clark:
> >
> > "You can't build a strong Army just with great generals;
> > you have to have great people at every rank. You have to
> > give everyone a chance to be all you can be.' It's true for
> > the United States Army, and it's true for the United States."
>
> It is easy to put fine words to paper. But the fact remains that Wes Clark
> spent 30+ years in the Army, and there probably aren't half a dozen men who
> served with him who would give him a drink from a water hose. That fact
> alone speaks louder than any position paper.
>
>

Is it a fact? What fact book did you get that from? Is that from the CIA
fact book? Didn't know they kept track of innuendo as well.


R. Hubbell

[R.Hubbell]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 09:33:00 GMT Richard Riley > wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:43:46 -0800, "R.Hubbell"
> > wrote:
>
> :On 17 Jan 2004 01:26:09 GMT (Wdtabor) wrote:
> :
> :> >
> :> >I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.
> :> >
> :> >
> :>
> :> What, like the part about him being removed from command for reasons having to
> :> do with personal integrity?
> :
> :You're still expecting us to take your word for it? His exemplary service
> :in the military speaks for itself.
> :
> :Just more vacuous vitriol.
>
> "I've known Wes for a long time. I will tell you the reason he came
> out of Europe early had to do with integrity and character issues,
> things that are very near and dear to my heart. I'm not going to say
> whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat. I'll just say Wes won't get my
> vote."
>
> Gen. Hugh Shelton, Former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
> and Clark's former boss


Shelton's upset because Clark went over his head to Clinton and the State
Dept. and the news media. And of course he probably thinks he should
be running for President. But he's not. You have to wonder why Shelton
is afraid to take a stance on whether or not he's a Republican or
Democrat. Sounds like he can't take a stance.

Just more innuendo from Shelton.


R. Hubbell

>
> BTW, John Kerry is a pilot, and flies himself around Iowa when the
> weather isn't too bad. And GW Bush is a pilot, though he hasn't flown
> since the ANG.

[Mike Walton]

he prefers to walk

Kerry supporter: Why does Kerry terrify you?

Bush supporter: Because he might win.

Kerry supporter: Thanks for your honesty.

Bush supporter: No problem. Anyone who is endorsed by the drunken,
murdering Senator from Kerry's homestate, can't be good for the
country.

Kerry supporter: And what makes you think you have the right to
determine what is good for the country?

Bush supporter: no response.

Another Bush supporter came to the rescue and offered this response:

"I sir, am a member in good standing of this much beloved country's
citizenry. 'Tis better that we the people make the decisions than fat
old farts like Senator Kennedy."

This hostile, anti-Kennedy rhetoric is not an isolated incident, and
it is safe to conclude that the fanatics who fear the candidacy of
John Kerry are responsible for creating the perception that Dean's
political candidacy is unstoppable.

http://www.geocities.com/bobeshope/howard.htm

Just in case you are wondering why Aaron Brown is scratching his head,
now that John Kerry is leading Iowa.





> > BTW, John Kerry is a pilot, and flies himself around Iowa when the
> > weather isn't too bad. And GW Bush is a pilot, though he hasn't flown
> > since the ANG.

[Jim Baker]

<snip>
> "I've known Wes for a long time. I will tell you the reason he came
> out of Europe early had to do with integrity and character issues,
> things that are very near and dear to my heart. I'm not going to say
> whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat. I'll just say Wes won't get my
> vote."
>
> Gen. Hugh Shelton, Former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
> and Clark's former boss
>
Not getting involved in the actual discussion here, but, a point of order.
The CJCS is not the "boss" of the CINCs of the Unified Commands, one of whom
was Wesley Clark as CINCEUR. The CJCS is not in their chain of command.
The chain of command for the Unified Commanders runs from the President to
the SECDEF to them. The CJCS is the military adviser to the President and
commands nobody but his staff. Any Unified CINC can and often does speak
directly to the President and/or SECDEF without anything more than a ""CC"
to the CJCS. That's the law (Goldwater-Nichols DoD Reorganization Act of
1986). In practice, it may be less cut and dried, but that is the letter of
the law.

JB

[Lisa Hughes]

"R.Hubbell" wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:33:48 -0500 Lisa Hughes > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "R.Hubbell" wrote:
> >
> > > On 17 Jan 2004 01:26:09 GMT (Wdtabor) wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > What, like the part about him being removed from command for reasons having to
> > > > do with personal integrity?
> > >
> > > You're still expecting us to take your word for it? His exemplary service
> > > in the military speaks for itself.
> >
> > History has shown clearly that generals don't make good Presidents. Why would
> > somebody whose occupation is a soldier be better/worse than anybody else for
> > President?
> >
>
> Not sure what you're talking about, did you post to the wrong message?
>
> In regards to Wesley Clark's integrity his exemplary service in the military
> speaks for itself.

No I posted to the right message. Read what I said again.

With regards to Wesley Clark's integrity and his "exemplary service in the military,"
could you please expain exactly why Clark was relieved as NATO commander months before
his tour was finished? Why did he suddenly retire? Why didn't he serve out his
tour???

How many civilian casualties were there in Serbia? Why were trains full of civilians
decimated and then Clark claimed that the "train was moving to fast" to avoid
targeting? Gosh I had no idea that Serbia had invented such fast trains.

Finally, why did Clark change his positions so radically? I hope we would make a
better President and I hope he wouldn't mysteriously disappear from the White House
three (3) years into the job, like his disappearing act before his tour was finished,
if he were to be elected.

[Lisa Hughes]

"R.Hubbell" wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:31:52 -0500 Lisa Hughes > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "R.Hubbell" wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:25:56 GMT Jonathan Goodish > wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article >,
> > > > "R.Hubbell" > wrote:
> > > > > But the country will never be secure and so they will do those
> > > > > things that are most visible to the masses.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW Clark seems like a very solid guy. Military guy with compassion
> > > > > and sensibility and intelligence.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > He's a guy who solidly can't decide what he believes. Iraq has WMD's in
> > > > front of Congress and a regime change is a must, but on the campaign
> > > > trail he appears to be contradicting himself. That type of thing seems
> > >
> > > Iraq had WMDs, we sold them to Iraq. Did you miss that part out
> > > of convenience or just not paying attention? :)
> > >
> > > Why not read the transcripts your self:
> > >
> > > http://armedservices.house.gov/schedules/2002.html
> > >
> > > > to be going around, though, since Howard Dean becomes a big Christian
> > > > when he's south of the Mason-Dixon line but isn't so much of a Christian
> > > > when he comes back north.
> > >
> > > Well Dubya didn't bother with all that during his campaign, he knew his
> > > Dad and his brother would pull out the win for him.
> >
> > Yeah right. I'll bet it was the black helicopters too, right?
>
> That's a funny response. If there were any helicopters the wouldn't have
> been black, that's too obvious. Yeah it's just a coincidence that his
> brother was the governor of the state in question.

And where is your evidence that it was not a coinidence? Citation? Heck, Gore
couldn't even carry his own home state, I'll bet that was the fault of a Bush brother
too, right? Even such rags as the NY Times and the Washington post counted the same
ballots and came to the same conclusion. But you're still stuck in 2000.

> > > > Bottom line is that the integrity of both men is questionable.
> > >
> > > The bottom line is that Wesley Clark has more integrity in his little
> > > toe than Dubya could ever hope to have.
> >
> > Keep dreaming. Dubya says what he does and does what he says. Wesley Clark swings
>
> Dubya does what his handlers tell him to say. Heck the only thing he wants out
> the office is to make sure he gets even for his Dad.

Citation? Proof? Evidence? Common sense? If you think Dubya is dumb, with a
degree from Yale, and a MBA from Harvard, what do you think of his opponent, with his
failing out of Law Schoold and DIVINITY school after earning a lower undergrad GPA than
Dubya. You really have to work hard to fail out of divinity school.....

> I hope it wasn't anyone
> you loved that he sent over to do his dirty work.

Yes the dirty work of defending the United States of America. And yes, we are very proud
of our son for doing so in the United States Air Force. What have you done lately? And
yeah, the Democratic party memo suggesting strategies for disqualifying military votes in
Florida in 2000 was very nice.

By the way, what did you consider Clinton's attacks on Haiti, Serbia, Kosovo, Baghdad,
Somalia, and aspirin factories? Everytime he found himself in a jam....

> > his positions around like a human weathervane in a storm. One minute he's for
> > disarming Saddam with force and knows that Iraq had weapons capable of causing
> > mass destructive, the next he says he never was. Unfortunately for him, his quotes
> > are in the congressional record, and even the audio/video exists.
>
> Yeah read it for yourself http://armedservices.house.gov/schedules/2002.html
>
> Of course he knows that he had WMDs the U.S. sold them to him. I guess you missed
> that too. Lots of people seem to forget things. Little details that happened
> long ago.

And please provide a citation for a respected unbiased source that tell us that Clark was
referring to anything the "US had sold."

>
>
> >
> > On taxes: "Mr. Clark's "reform" is essentially an updated version of the tax
> > jujitsu that Candidate Clinton offered back in 1992. Promise to raise taxes only on
> > the upper middle class and wealthy, while offering to cut taxes on a slew of
> > "middle-class families." Once Mr. Clinton took office, you may painfully recall,
> > the middle-class tax cut vanished and everyone got socked with some kind of tax
> > hike.
>
> So you don't like to have to pay taxes? So Dubya's plan is to sign every single
> spending bill since in office and not raise taxes. A 5 year old can figure that
> won't work.

Not if that 5 year old understood macroeconomics and realized that lower taxes has
increased federal tax revenue every single time it's been tried, starting with JFK's tax
cuts in 1961. Lower taxes, more revenue.

> But I guess, like global warming, we'll let future generations
> sort it all out. We're too busy settling scores and acting as the global
> sociopath.

Oh, please tell me more about global warming. I really enjoyed those -35 degree F wind
chills this week. But I guess global "warming" caused that too! What a nice
religion. Yes the USA is the global sociopath, that's why we have so many mass graves of
tortured citizens. And rape rooms. And piles of lobbed of ears because their owners
failed to give allegiance to the Baathists.

>
>
> >
> > "We've been waiting a long time for another Democrat to grab the mantle of tax
> > reform the way Bill Bradley and Dick Gephardt did back in the 1980s, so we studied
> > Wesley Clark's proposal on Monday with interest. The kindest thing we can say about
> > it is that we sure hope the retired general knows more about war than he does about
> > taxes.
> > ...
> > The major difference today is that Mr. Clark is proposing to raise marginal
> > income-tax rates even higher than Mr. Clinton did. He'd not only repeal the Bush
> > tax cuts, thus restoring the top Clinton marginal rate of 39.6%, but he'd pile on
> > another five-point rate surcharge on incomes of more than $1 million.
>
> Good! The country needs better security and cleaner air and water. We need to
> increase education spending too.

Huh? You made a non-sequitur leap that doesn't even make any sense. You went from the
marginal tax rate to "cleaner air and water." So tell me, what is the precise marginal
tax rate that will give us "clearn air and water????" Clark's plan is economic suicide
for the macro economy. The old "tax the rich" class war stuff, except the "rich" turns
out to be any guy with an alarm clock.... The tax base today continues to shrink and
shrink as the top 50% of wage earners are paying over 96% of the tax bill, but I guess
that's not enough for you.

>
>
> >
> > Yes, friends, the old "millionaire surtax" ploy. The last time we roasted this
> > chestnut was also in 1992, except that once Mr. Clinton took office the definition
> > of millionaire became anyone making more than $250,000. Mr. Clark is proposing to
> > raise the top marginal rate on income to 44.6%--or about 46.6% counting the current
> > exemption and deduction phase-outs--higher than anytime since the pre-1986 rate of
> > 50% when there were many more tax loopholes. And Mr. Clark keeps hinting that
> > Howard Dean is unelectable in November."
> > WSJ 1/7/2004
>
> There's no shortage of loopholes. And it's time to lessen the current tax inequality
> that exists here.

Then Clark's plan is the last one we would want.

>
>
> >
> > ""President Bush and Tony Blair should be proud of their resolve in the face of so
> > much doubt." -Wesley Clark op-ed London Times 10 April 2003
>
> That's a nice thing to say. They should be proud of their resolve. But the will
> have to see the truth come out about the whole thing. Then we will really see
> how their resolve holds up.

Quite well. Quite well indeed, as even Clark says it is something they should be proud
of.

But keep up that fight man. Keep getting angry. Fight on!

(and keep those non-sequiturs coming too....they show you have a real good command of
things.)

[Jim]

"Lisa Hughes" > wrote in message
...
> History has shown clearly that generals don't make good Presidents. Why
would
> somebody whose occupation is a soldier be better/worse than anybody else
for
> President?

Had to do a little research when I could only come up with a few Generals
who were President. See
http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2004/01/13/local/iq_2641489.txt which
includes reference to their rankings in SRI Survey of U.S. Presidents,
http://www.siena.edu/sri/results/2002/02AugPresidentsSurvey.htm.

BTW, 12 presidents out of 42 were generals.

[Big John]

R

1. I wouldn't vote for him in the Iowa vote today if I were back there
in my home town.

2. If perchance he were to win the Democratic primaries and be the
democrat running against Bush (heaven forbid), I would not vote for
him.

3. He supposedly learned about "Duty, Honor & Country" at the Academy
but his actions eschew those standards on his part.

4. Read what the Generals who fired his ass in Europe say now that
they are retired and can talk.

If you persist, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell
you. As Barnum (?) said, there's a sucker born every minute.

Big John
Cullen 15086

I too have long and honorable service and received many decorations
for bravery while under enemy fire, etc.


On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:43:46 -0800, "R.Hubbell"
> wrote:

>On 17 Jan 2004 01:26:09 GMT (Wdtabor) wrote:
>
>> >
>> >I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> What, like the part about him being removed from command for reasons having to
>> do with personal integrity?
>
>You're still expecting us to take your word for it? His exemplary service
>in the military speaks for itself.
>
>Just more vacuous vitriol.
>
>
>
>R. Hubbell
>
>>
>> Don
>>
>> --
>> Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
>> PP-ASEL
>> Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[R.Hubbell]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:15:31 -0600 Big John > wrote:

> R
>
> 1. I wouldn't vote for him in the Iowa vote today if I were back there
> in my home town.



I guess I don't care if you'd vote for him or not. Thanks for sharing
anyway.


>
> 2. If perchance he were to win the Democratic primaries and be the
> democrat running against Bush (heaven forbid), I would not vote for
> him.

Of course, follows from above.

>
> 3. He supposedly learned about "Duty, Honor & Country" at the Academy
> but his actions eschew those standards on his part.


Well did all those medals just fly out of nowhere to him?


>
> 4. Read what the Generals who fired his ass in Europe say now that
> they are retired and can talk.

Fired his ass? They were upset because he went over their heads
to the whitehouse and the press and state dept.

>
> If you persist, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell
> you. As Barnum (?) said, there's a sucker born every minute.

This is called a non-sequitar of if you'd like nonsense. You're
calling into question the career of a General who served his country
bravely and resolutely.

>
> Big John
> Cullen 15086
>
> I too have long and honorable service and received many decorations
> for bravery while under enemy fire, etc.

If you can dismiss the career of a General so easily why would I
believe that your accomplishments are untarnished?

Or are you saying that if you can do it then Wesley Clark's
military career is no big deal?

Stick with what you know. Relying on innuendo is not a good habit.


R. Hubbell


>
>
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:43:46 -0800, "R.Hubbell"
> > wrote:
>
> >On 17 Jan 2004 01:26:09 GMT (Wdtabor) wrote:
> >
> >> >
> >> >I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> What, like the part about him being removed from command for reasons having to
> >> do with personal integrity?
> >
> >You're still expecting us to take your word for it? His exemplary service
> >in the military speaks for itself.
> >
> >Just more vacuous vitriol.
> >
> >
> >
> >R. Hubbell
> >
> >>
> >> Don
> >>
> >> --
> >> Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
> >> PP-ASEL
> >> Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG
>

[R.Hubbell]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:02:36 -0500 Lisa Hughes > wrote:

>
>
> "R.Hubbell" wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:33:48 -0500 Lisa Hughes > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > "R.Hubbell" wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 17 Jan 2004 01:26:09 GMT (Wdtabor) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I'd say his military record serves to discount your theory.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What, like the part about him being removed from command for reasons having to
> > > > > do with personal integrity?
> > > >
> > > > You're still expecting us to take your word for it? His exemplary service
> > > > in the military speaks for itself.
> > >
> > > History has shown clearly that generals don't make good Presidents. Why would
> > > somebody whose occupation is a soldier be better/worse than anybody else for
> > > President?
> > >
> >
> > Not sure what you're talking about, did you post to the wrong message?
> >
> > In regards to Wesley Clark's integrity his exemplary service in the military
> > speaks for itself.
>
> No I posted to the right message. Read what I said again.

I disagree, you think that I made a judgement that a general is a better
candidate for the presidency. But I never said that. You reached that conclusion
in your own mind. Feel free to discuss with yourself. :)


R. Hubbell

>
> With regards to Wesley Clark's integrity and his "exemplary service in the military,"
> could you please expain exactly why Clark was relieved as NATO commander months before
> his tour was finished? Why did he suddenly retire? Why didn't he serve out his
> tour???
>
> How many civilian casualties were there in Serbia? Why were trains full of civilians
> decimated and then Clark claimed that the "train was moving to fast" to avoid
> targeting? Gosh I had no idea that Serbia had invented such fast trains.
>
> Finally, why did Clark change his positions so radically? I hope we would make a
> better President and I hope he wouldn't mysteriously disappear from the White House
> three (3) years into the job, like his disappearing act before his tour was finished,
> if he were to be elected.
>

[Wdtabor]

In article >, "R.Hubbell"
> writes:

>
>If you can dismiss the career of a General so easily why would I
>believe that your accomplishments are untarnished?
>
>Or are you saying that if you can do it then Wesley Clark's
>military career is no big deal?
>
>Stick with what you know. Relying on innuendo is not a good habit.
>
>

OK, here's what I know.

My dental office is about 5 blocks from the NATO headquarters in Norfolk. I
have patients who worked under Clark as civilian contractors for NATO. None of
them would do it again and they describe him as a 'people eater.'

He has a history of shifting the blame for his own misjudgments onto junior
officers, sometimes ruining their careers in order to preserve his image.

That alone disqualifies him in my eyes for any position of leadership.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[R.Hubbell]

On 22 Jan 2004 15:41:00 GMT (Wdtabor) wrote:

> In article >, "R.Hubbell"
> > writes:
>
> >
> >If you can dismiss the career of a General so easily why would I
> >believe that your accomplishments are untarnished?
> >
> >Or are you saying that if you can do it then Wesley Clark's
> >military career is no big deal?
> >
> >Stick with what you know. Relying on innuendo is not a good habit.
> >
> >
>
> OK, here's what I know.
>
> My dental office is about 5 blocks from the NATO headquarters in Norfolk. I
> have patients who worked under Clark as civilian contractors for NATO. None of
> them would do it again and they describe him as a 'people eater.'


Are you familiar with what it takes to be a leader of people? It's not a
popularity contest.

>
> He has a history of shifting the blame for his own misjudgments onto junior
> officers, sometimes ruining their careers in order to preserve his image.

Oh sure, that's how you become a General, very funny! :)
You're such a stitch!

>
> That alone disqualifies him in my eyes for any position of leadership.

Well I've read some of your other posts and what you see with your eyes
seems tainted anyway.


R. Hubbell

>
> Don
>
> --
> Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
> PP-ASEL
> Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[Wdtabor]

In article >, "R.Hubbell"
> writes:

>>
>> He has a history of shifting the blame for his own misjudgments onto junior
>> officers, sometimes ruining their careers in order to preserve his image.
>
>Oh sure, that's how you become a General, very funny! :)

No, it's how you get fired as a General when you get caught.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[Bill J]

John Kerry was a pilot. Tells some flying stories in his bio.

R.Hubbell wrote:
> Does anyone know if Wesley Clark was ever a pilot?
> What do people here think of the General?
>
> In case you missed it he's running for President.
>
>
>
> R. Hubbell

[Bill J]

Kerry apparantly once was. Tells some flying stories in his bio... Not
sure when or if he dropped out.

R.Hubbell wrote:

> Does anyone know if Wesley Clark was ever a pilot?
> What do people here think of the General?
>
> In case you missed it he's running for President.
>
>
>
> R. Hubbell

[David Reinhart]

Since I live about 30 miles from Boston I shudder to think what would
happen every time John came home to visit. My home airport (FIT) is
outside of the Class B, but Kerry's townhouse on Beacon Hill is several
miles west of BOS and if they center the TFR on his house I bet it would
shut down my airport.

Dave Reinhart


Bill J wrote:

> Kerry apparantly once was. Tells some flying stories in his bio... Not
> sure when or if he dropped out.
>
> R.Hubbell wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know if Wesley Clark was ever a pilot?
> > What do people here think of the General?
> >
> > In case you missed it he's running for President.
> >
> >
> >
> > R. Hubbell

[Bill J]

I did find this clip about his flying on the web:


"I'm sorry to say -- that won't be able to beat Bush," said Elvis
Muhaabwa, 52. "Bush is a one-topic man. He's going to hammer it in our
ears. Even if it's not true, we will believe it."

"I understand you have to boil it down," Kerry said, his voice
ratcheting up. "But I'm here, talking to smart Democrats."

Afterward, Muhaabwa said, "After he leaves, he'll be thinking about what
I said."

That's where Muhaabwa was wrong. Because when Kerry left, he drove to
the airport and climbed into the pilot's seat of a twin-engine Cessna.
The cautious politician gave way to the other Kerry. This was Primal
John, the pilot who flies barrel rolls, who relaxes by windsurfing in a
squall, who ran with the bulls at Pamplona and, when trampled, got up,
chased the bull, and grabbed for its horns.

Now Kerry revved the plane's engines, clamped on his headset, cracked a
joke about the Red Sox and rumbled down the strip.

"This is Five Papa Juliet at 120 degrees, climbing to 7,500 feet," he
told the control tower as the ground dropped away.

As the tiny plane bumped and shook, he looked more and more relaxed.
Flying to his next campaign stop, he chatted about maneuvers to avoid
flak in combat.

The political flak he'd just taken was far from his mind. Throttle,
propeller, speed, fuel: Kerry was happily in the moment. He turned the
plane to dodge a threatening cloud. There were no ambiguities. It was
simple.

Bill J wrote:
> Kerry apparantly once was. Tells some flying stories in his bio... Not
> sure when or if he dropped out.
>
> R.Hubbell wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if Wesley Clark was ever a pilot?
>> What do people here think of the General?
>>
>> In case you missed it he's running for President.
>>
>>
>>
>> R. Hubbell
>
>

[Henry Bibb]

As a NC resident, I think the same way about John Edwards.
You can tell a pilot from the rest of the population - he's campaigning
for the candidate farthest away from his home state! :)

Henry Bibb

"David Reinhart" > wrote in message
...
> Since I live about 30 miles from Boston I shudder to think what would
> happen every time John came home to visit. My home airport (FIT) is
> outside of the Class B, but Kerry's townhouse on Beacon Hill is several
> miles west of BOS and if they center the TFR on his house I bet it would
> shut down my airport.
>
> Dave Reinhart
>
>
> Bill J wrote:
>
> > Kerry apparantly once was. Tells some flying stories in his bio... Not
> > sure when or if he dropped out.
> >
> > R.Hubbell wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone know if Wesley Clark was ever a pilot?
> > > What do people here think of the General?
> > >
> > > In case you missed it he's running for President.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > R. Hubbell
>

[CFLav8r]

"Henry Bibb" wrote in message > As a NC resident, I think the same way about
John Edwards.
> You can tell a pilot from the rest of the population - he's campaigning
> for the candidate farthest away from his home state! :)
>
I never thought of it that way.
Does anyone in this group know of a Presidential Candidate that is either
from Alaska or Hawaii?

David (KORL)

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
wrote:

> Since I live about 30 miles from Boston I shudder to think what would
> happen every time John came home to visit. My home airport (FIT) is
> outside of the Class B, but Kerry's townhouse on Beacon Hill is several
> miles west of BOS and if they center the TFR on his house I bet it would
> shut down my airport.

oh crap, I'm based at KBED.

but, how have senators fared in Presidential elections? Or
liberals from Taxachusetts?

--
Bob Noel

[Newps]

Bob Noel wrote:

> oh crap, I'm based at KBED.
>
> but, how have senators fared in Presidential elections? Or
> liberals from Taxachusetts?

Kerry has no shot, don't worry about it.

[David Reinhart]

Let's see, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon were
all senators at one time or another.

Dave


Bob Noel wrote:

> In article >,
> wrote:
>
> > Since I live about 30 miles from Boston I shudder to think what would
> > happen every time John came home to visit. My home airport (FIT) is
> > outside of the Class B, but Kerry's townhouse on Beacon Hill is several
> > miles west of BOS and if they center the TFR on his house I bet it would
> > shut down my airport.
>
> oh crap, I'm based at KBED.
>
> but, how have senators fared in Presidential elections? Or
> liberals from Taxachusetts?
>
> --
> Bob Noel

[Morgans]

"Bob Noel" > wrote

> oh crap, I'm based at KBED.
>
> but, how have senators fared in Presidential elections? Or
> liberals from Taxachusetts?

Hmmm. One comes to mind, last name of Kennedy?
--
Jim in NC

[Cub Driver]

>Does anyone in this group know of a Presidential Candidate that is either
>from Alaska or Hawaii?

Vermont has many characteristics in common with Alaska.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[R. Wubben]

He flies sailplanes as well. I ran across him at Estrella Gliderport
(near Phoenix) a couple of years ago. Quiet and unassuming. We were
both renting gliders and he and I had a very short conversation about
the conditions and what the thermals were doing.
I thought it was pretty cool that he flew.

-Ryan

[H.J.]

"David Reinhart" > wrote in message
...
> Since I live about 30 miles from Boston I shudder to think what would
> happen every time John came home to visit. My home airport (FIT) is

Dont worry. Him becoming president is a problem you never have to worry
about.



> outside of the Class B, but Kerry's townhouse on Beacon Hill is several
> miles west of BOS and if they center the TFR on his house I bet it would
> shut down my airport.
>
> Dave Reinhart
>
>
> Bill J wrote:
>
> > Kerry apparantly once was. Tells some flying stories in his bio... Not
> > sure when or if he dropped out.
> >
> > R.Hubbell wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone know if Wesley Clark was ever a pilot?
> > > What do people here think of the General?
> > >
> > > In case you missed it he's running for President.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > R. Hubbell
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Bob Noel wrote:
>
> but, how have senators fared in Presidential elections? Or
> liberals from Taxachusetts?

It's frequently fatal for them.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[G.R. Patterson III]

"H.J." wrote:
>
> "David Reinhart" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Since I live about 30 miles from Boston I shudder to think what would
> > happen every time John came home to visit. My home airport (FIT) is
>
> Dont worry. Him becoming president is a problem you never have to worry
> about.

Ya know, I seem to recall a few posters saying that about a guy named Bush four
years ago.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Mike]

From Landings:

Name : KERRY, JOHN FORBES
Pilot's Address : 19 LOUISBURG SQ
BOSTON, MA, 02108-1202
FAA Region : New England
Date of Medical : Dec, 2003
Class of Medical : 2
Expiration : Dec, 2004
Pilot Certificates : Commercial Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land
Airplane Single Engine Sea
Airplane Multiengine Land
Instrument Airplane
Glider Aero Tow (Private Pilot)

> > R.Hubbell wrote:
> >
> >> Does anyone know if Wesley Clark was ever a pilot?
> >> What do people here think of the General?
> >>
> >> In case you missed it he's running for President.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> R. Hubbell
> >
> >

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:08:55 -0500, Bill J > wrote:

>Kerry apparantly once was. Tells some flying stories in his bio... Not
>sure when or if he dropped out.
Pilots Database Search Result
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name : KERRY, JOHN FORBES
Pilot's Address : 19 LOUISBURG SQ
BOSTON, MA, 02108-1202
FAA Region : New England
Date of Medical : Dec, 2003
Class of Medical : 2
Expiration : Dec, 2004
Pilot Certificates : Commercial Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land
Airplane Single Engine Sea
Airplane Multiengine Land
Instrument Airplane
Glider Aero Tow (Private Pilot)
-----------------------------------------------------------

Although call sign "Five Papa Juliet" was mentioned in Bill J's
Message-ID: > article, it is not
clear if there are more numbers proceeding the 5PJ:


N-number : N5PJ
Aircraft Serial Number : 421B-0258
Aircraft Manufacturer : CESSNA
Model : 421B
Engine Manufacturer : CONT MOTOR
Model : GTSI0-520-F-K
Aircraft Year : 1972
Owner Name : AIRCRAFT PARTNERS LLC
Owner Address : PO BOX 40
SUMTER, SC, 29151-0040
Type of Owner : Corporation
Registration Date : 23-Jun-2000
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Standard

[Mutts]

Kerry is as left as Teddy....................

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109259,00.html

Looks like the only difference is Kerry flys instead of drinks.


On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:18:05 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> wrote:

>
>
>"H.J." wrote:
>>
>> "David Reinhart" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Since I live about 30 miles from Boston I shudder to think what would
>> > happen every time John came home to visit. My home airport (FIT) is
>>
>> Dont worry. Him becoming president is a problem you never have to worry
>> about.
>
>Ya know, I seem to recall a few posters saying that about a guy named Bush four
>years ago.
>
>George Patterson
> Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
> "Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Dennis O'Connor]

All of the democratic dwarfs are far lefters, don't let em kid you... free
this, and free that, and it's 'your' right to have this, and the government
is obligated to give, and I'm going to make this mandatory and that
required, and on, and on... No mention of who is going to pay for it - oh
yea, I forgot... It's the rich *******s like me that work 14 hours a day and
actually have to pay taxes and don't have a free card for Walter Reed...
denny

> Kerry is as left as Teddy....................
>

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:56:53 -0500, "Dennis O'Connor"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>No mention of who is going to pay for it - oh
>yea, I forgot... It's the rich *******s like me that work 14 hours a day and
>actually have to pay taxes

It would seem to me that President Clinton handed your boy a zero
economic deficit, and baby Bush ran it up to a projected 2-1/2
$trillion. Let's stick to the facts, not misperceptions.

Incidently, you aren't rich; they don't pay taxes. :-)

[Bob Noel]

In article >, Larry Dighera
> wrote:

> >No mention of who is going to pay for it - oh
> >yea, I forgot... It's the rich *******s like me that work 14 hours a day
> >and
> >actually have to pay taxes
>
> It would seem to me that President Clinton handed your boy a zero
> economic deficit, and baby Bush ran it up to a projected 2-1/2
> $trillion. Let's stick to the facts, not misperceptions.

yes, please, let's stick to the facts.

--
Bob Noel

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Larry Dighera
> > wrote:
>
> > >No mention of who is going to pay for it - oh
> > >yea, I forgot... It's the rich *******s like me that work 14 hours a
day
> > >and
> > >actually have to pay taxes
> >
> > It would seem to me that President Clinton handed your boy a zero
> > economic deficit, and baby Bush ran it up to a projected 2-1/2
> > $trillion. Let's stick to the facts, not misperceptions.
>
> yes, please, let's stick to the facts.

Oh!!! Why ruin it?

[Dennis O'Connor]

Awwwright, now I'm mad, Larry... First, I voted for the Libertarian
candidate for President, not either of the two big spenders...

Next, GWB is not my guy... I had problems with the Iraq deal from minute
1... <I have problems with large parts of the current RNC agenda - but
that's another tirade>...The entire country of Iraq is not worth the life of
even one of our kids in uniform...
My sense is that the big players in the three branches of government, and
the industrial military complex, saw an impending oil crises down the road
if we did not do something to change the power structure in arabia
(specifically Saudi Arabia)... The Clinton administration understood this
but the big guy chose not to rock the boat whilst he was busily avoiding
being impeached...I don't have a problem with protecting the future of this
country <and not so incidentally, the industrialized western nations> - I do
have a problem with the country and the method this administration under
took to force those changes... <wrong country, wrong bunch of thieves and
murderers>

Next, Clinton did not hand anyone a zero deficit... Those numbers were
political cookery right from the start... The country was in deficit every
minute of the way, before, during, and after, the Clinton administration...
And only because of the upturn in the world economy for nearly a decade did
the amount of money the government was extorting from businesses and stock
holders statistically put us in a predicted surplus *** if the rate of
increase in government revenues continued for the forseeable future*** -
jeez, how gullible do you have to be?

And, the Clinton administration was not all bad - our zipper boy is a
centrist and understands that the business community could not be crucified
to support the party line, and still provide jobs and bennies for all those
gullible, democratic voters... I agree with significant parts of the
business oriented bills he signed into law...

Read, think, don't parrot
cheers .... denny

[Dennis O'Connor]

Oh, another piece of common knowledge, I suppose...

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message > Incidently, you aren't
rich; they don't pay taxes. :-)

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message
...
> Awwwright, now I'm mad, Larry... First, I voted for the Libertarian
> candidate for President, not either of the two big spenders...
>
>
> Next, Clinton did not hand anyone a zero deficit... Those numbers were
> political cookery right from the start... The country was in deficit every
> minute of the way, before, during, and after, the Clinton
administration...
> And only because of the upturn in the world economy for nearly a decade
did
> the amount of money the government was extorting from businesses and stock
> holders statistically put us in a predicted surplus *** if the rate of
> increase in government revenues continued for the forseeable future*** -

Further, his tax and regulatory policies are a major factor in delaying
recovery (like lead weights on a swimmer trying to reach shore).

Also, the economic downturn actually had it's roots in Greenspan's putting
the brakes on the economy in 1998. Not Clinton's fault there, but again, his
regulatory climate greatly impeded recovery and the shaking off of
malinvestment. It was about this time that the job market started to go to
hell, albeit slowly.

The stock markets peaked in March, 2000, and now economists are revising
their "call" of the beginning of the recession to mid-2000. So just how long
does anyone think it take a recession to take hold?


> jeez, how gullible do you have to be?

The more the better. :~)

And, yes, Paul Krugman, the leading Marxist/Keynesian economist, was wrong
on just about every estimate/prediction he made during those years.

http://www.poorandstupid.com/chronicle.asp
>
> And, the Clinton administration was not all bad - our zipper boy is a
> centrist and understands that the business community could not be
crucified
> to support the party line, and still provide jobs and bennies for all
those
> gullible, democratic voters... I agree with significant parts of the
> business oriented bills he signed into law...

NAFTA was a good idea in theory, but a disaster in implementation. It does
not take 15,000 pages of regulations to implement open trade and free
markets.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message
...
> Oh, another piece of common knowledge, I suppose...

(Note the smiley)
>
> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message > Incidently, you
aren't
> rich; they don't pay taxes. :-)
>
I wish we were rich so we didn't have to pay the massive sums my spouse and
I did these past several years. :~o


--
"He that would make his own liberty secure,
must guard even his enemy from oppression;
for if he violates this duty, he establishes
a precedent that will reach to himself." -- Thomas Paine

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:43:14 -0500, "Dennis O'Connor"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>Awwwright, now I'm mad, Larry... First, I voted for the Libertarian
>candidate for President, not either of the two big spenders...

Please accept my sincere apology for my presumption. I have a lot of
respect for those who choose not to squander their votes on
perpetuating the corrupt incumbent fiscal system.

>My sense is that the big players in the three branches of government, and
>the industrial military complex, saw an impending oil crises down the road
>if we did not do something to change the power structure in arabia
>(specifically Saudi Arabia)... The Clinton administration understood this
>but the big guy chose not to rock the boat whilst he was busily avoiding
>being impeached...

Perhaps development of alternate energy sources would be a more
appropriate means of averting the inevitable oil crisis.

>Next, Clinton did not hand anyone a zero deficit... Those numbers were
>political cookery right from the start...

So you concede that the numbers showed what I contend.

>The country was in deficit every
>minute of the way, before, during, and after, the Clinton administration...
>And only because of the upturn in the world economy for nearly a decade did
>the amount of money the government was extorting from businesses and stock
>holders statistically put us in a predicted surplus

It's difficult to see how the country was in creating a financial
deficit while surpluses were accumulating.

>*** if the rate of
>increase in government revenues continued for the forseeable future*** -
>jeez, how gullible do you have to be?

I don't pretend to be an expert, let alone knowledgable, in these
issues.