Another Addition to the Rec.Aviation Rogue's Gallery!

[Jay Honeck]

This time it's Vlado Lenoch gracing the pages of our rec.aviation photo
gallery, colloquially known in these parts as the "Rogue's Gallery"...

Check out his fabulous 1944 P-51D Mustang, "Moonbeam McSwine," at
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/rec_aviation.htm . (Navigate to the "L"s to
find Vlado's pix...)

Want YOUR bird posted for the rest of us to drool all over? Send some pix,
and a short narrative about yourself, to me at and
I'll get'cha posted!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ed Wischmeyer]

Enough of this spam in disguise advertising your motel...

Ed Wischmeyer

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Ed Wischmeyer" > wrote in message
...
> Enough of this spam in disguise advertising your motel...
>
> Ed Wischmeyer

Ummmm...Ed? You can remove your foot from your mouth anytime now...we'll
pretend not to notice.

[Jay Honeck]

> Enough of this spam in disguise advertising your motel...

Gee, Ed -- I take it you don't want to add your plane to the Rogue's
Gallery?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article <yUnOb.90573$xy6.163641@attbi_s02>, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

> > Enough of this spam in disguise advertising your motel...
>
> Gee, Ed -- I take it you don't want to add your plane to the Rogue's
> Gallery?

(I'm not Ed, but...) I would send pictures, but I guess an email
with some questions went into bit-limbo.

do you want the thumbnails and regulars pictures already sized
or do you want to do that yourself?

--
Bob Noel

[Jay Honeck]

> (I'm not Ed, but...) I would send pictures, but I guess an email
> with some questions went into bit-limbo.
>
> do you want the thumbnails and regulars pictures already sized
> or do you want to do that yourself?

Hi Bob,

Thumbnails are not required, as my software builds 'em automatically. If
you could re-size the pix to 640 x 480 before sending them, however, that
would save me a step.

Also, I've found that the "best" airplane galleries are the ones with a shot
of the person(s) in them, either in flight or on the ground. Airplanes are
cool, but just setting by themselves they're a bit cold and sterile.

Please remember to tell me where you're based. I can't tell you how many
times I've had to look up an "N" number on "Landings.com" to figure that
out -- everyone thinks I know where they are, I guess! :-)

Also, attach a note about how long you've been lurking in the groups, how
long you've been flying, etc. Some people send me their whole life's story,
while others I have to beg for details.

We've now got over sixty (60!!) Rec.Aviation "members" in the "Rogue's
Gallery," in just over 7 weeks on-line. That's pretty amazing, I think!
You folks are great, and I really enjoy seeing what everyone is flying -- it
makes the newsgroup experience just that much better.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jerry Springer]

Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> "Ed Wischmeyer" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Enough of this spam in disguise advertising your motel...
>>
>>Ed Wischmeyer
>
>
> Ummmm...Ed? You can remove your foot from your mouth anytime now...we'll
> pretend not to notice.
>
>
>
Why does he need to remove foot? I agree with Ron, I like Jay and he contributes
to this NG but I really don't think we need to know each time someone posts to
his web site.

Jerry

[Jerry Springer]

Correction that should have said "I agree with ED"

Jerry

Jerry Springer wrote:

>
>
> Tom Sixkiller wrote:
>
>> "Ed Wischmeyer" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Enough of this spam in disguise advertising your motel...
>>>
>>> Ed Wischmeyer
>>
>>
>>
>> Ummmm...Ed? You can remove your foot from your mouth anytime now...we'll
>> pretend not to notice.
>>
>>
>>
> Why does he need to remove foot? I agree with Ron, I like Jay and he
> contributes to this NG but I really don't think we need to know each
> time someone posts to his web site.
>
> Jerry
>

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jerry Springer" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
>
> Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> > "Ed Wischmeyer" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Enough of this spam in disguise advertising your motel...
> >>
> >>Ed Wischmeyer
> >
> >
> > Ummmm...Ed? You can remove your foot from your mouth anytime now...we'll
> > pretend not to notice.
> >
> >
> >
> Why does he need to remove foot? I agree with Ron, I like Jay and he
contributes
> to this NG but I really don't think we need to know each time someone
posts to
> his web site.
>
Maybe because the web site he references is DEDICATED TO THIS NEWSGROUP?

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jerry Springer" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Correction that should have said "I agree with ED"
>
> Jerry
>

Listen VERY closely:

POINT #1 - Ed was bitching that Jay's points were SPAM.

POINT #2 - They pointers to Jay's web site are the part that is DEDICATED
TO THIS NEWS GROUP

You might also...

> Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> >
> >> "Ed Wischmeyer" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >>> Enough of this spam in disguise advertising your motel...
> >>>
> >>> Ed Wischmeyer
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ummmm...Ed? You can remove your foot from your mouth anytime
now...we'll
> >> pretend not to notice.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Why does he need to remove foot? I agree with Ron, I like Jay and he
> > contributes to this NG but I really don't think we need to know each
> > time someone posts to his web site.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
>

[Jerry Springer]

YES sir mister sixkiller now go F yourself. I got your poinit the first time.
My second post was a correction to where I said "RON" instead of "ED" as Ed was
the orginal poster. NOW why don't you "READ VERY CLOSELY?"

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

> "Jerry Springer" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>
>>Correction that should have said "I agree with ED"
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>
>
> Listen VERY closely:
>
> POINT #1 - Ed was bitching that Jay's points were SPAM.
>
> POINT #2 - They pointers to Jay's web site are the part that is DEDICATED
> TO THIS NEWS GROUP
>
> You might also...
>
>
>>Jerry Springer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Tom Sixkiller wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Ed Wischmeyer" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Enough of this spam in disguise advertising your motel...
>>>>>
>>>>>Ed Wischmeyer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ummmm...Ed? You can remove your foot from your mouth anytime
>
> now...we'll
>
>>>>pretend not to notice.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Why does he need to remove foot? I agree with Ron, I like Jay and he
>>>contributes to this NG but I really don't think we need to know each
>>>time someone posts to his web site.
>>>
>>>Jerry
>>>
>>
>
>

[Martin Hotze]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 09:52:07 -0700, Tom Sixkiller wrote:

>Maybe because the web site he references is DEDICATED TO THIS NEWSGROUP?
^^^^^^^^

the web SITE is (hopefully) dedicated to his business.

#m
--
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990509

[Jim Weir]

Jeezuz, people, lighten up. If you don't like Jay's posts, don't read them. It
ain't rocket science to figure out how your killfile works.

I for one like to see the new pictures. If Jay didn't post, I probably wouldn't
go there once a year. It isn't like he is directing you to the main page where
you have to wade through a bunch of advertising bushwa to get to the
pictures...the URL takes you directly to the pictures page.


Jim


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Cy Galley]

Some people will complain even when hung with a new rope!

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
> Jeezuz, people, lighten up. If you don't like Jay's posts, don't read
them. It
> ain't rocket science to figure out how your killfile works.
>
> I for one like to see the new pictures. If Jay didn't post, I probably
wouldn't
> go there once a year. It isn't like he is directing you to the main page
where
> you have to wade through a bunch of advertising bushwa to get to the
> pictures...the URL takes you directly to the pictures page.
>
>
> Jim
>
>
> Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
> VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
> http://www.rst-engr.com

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jerry Springer" > wrote in message
link.net...
> YES sir mister sixkiller now go F yourself. I got your poinit the first
time.
> My second post was a correction to where I said "RON" instead of "ED" as
Ed was
> the orginal poster. NOW why don't you "READ VERY CLOSELY?"

Read it again: The point I was making was the reference to SPAM...you're use
of the wrong name was immaterial.

Considering your propensity for grammatical and other mistakes, I won't make
the point of your incredible lack of reading, comprehension, and other
skills.


Why don't you go away...your mothers calling you.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
> Jeezuz, people, lighten up. If you don't like Jay's posts, don't read
them. It
> ain't rocket science to figure out how your killfile works.
>
> I for one like to see the new pictures. If Jay didn't post, I probably
wouldn't
> go there once a year. It isn't like he is directing you to the main page
where
> you have to wade through a bunch of advertising bushwa to get to the
> pictures...the URL takes you directly to the pictures page.
>

Forget it, Jim. There are some that just won't grow up.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Cy Galley" > wrote in message
news:mGCOb.95717$na.51203@attbi_s04...
> Some people will complain even when hung with a new rope!

Only if it's one of those that itches a lot.

>
> "Jim Weir" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Jeezuz, people, lighten up. If you don't like Jay's posts, don't read
> them. It
> > ain't rocket science to figure out how your killfile works.
> >
> > I for one like to see the new pictures. If Jay didn't post, I probably
> wouldn't
> > go there once a year. It isn't like he is directing you to the main
page
> where
> > you have to wade through a bunch of advertising bushwa to get to the
> > pictures...the URL takes you directly to the pictures page.
> >
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
> > VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
> > http://www.rst-engr.com
>
>

[Jerry Springer]

You are the moron that seem to have a reading problem, now go play with yourself
somewhere else. It is spam to post the same thing over and over in a newsgroup.
think how cluttered the NG would be if everyone that had a web site posted
everytime something was added to it. We all know Jay has a section dedicated to
aircraft pictures so maybe once a week he should just post his URL insteead of
each time someone adds to it.
BTW my mother has been dead for two years. Now as I said go F yourself somewhere
else.


Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> "Jerry Springer" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>
>>YES sir mister sixkiller now go F yourself. I got your poinit the first
>
> time.
>
>>My second post was a correction to where I said "RON" instead of "ED" as
>
> Ed was
>
>>the orginal poster. NOW why don't you "READ VERY CLOSELY?"
>
>
> Read it again: The point I was making was the reference to SPAM...you're use
> of the wrong name was immaterial.
>
> Considering your propensity for grammatical and other mistakes, I won't make
> the point of your incredible lack of reading, comprehension, and other
> skills.
>
>
> Why don't you go away...your mothers calling you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Lance W]

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote:

>Ed was bitching that Jay's points were SPAM.

Ed was right, it is spam. It is crossposted commercial spam guised as
update notices. One would have to be quite naive to think that Jay has
no commercial motive in his almost daily crossposted update notices.
Most people resent commercial spam no matter how guised. That's why
there is so little of it here. If people didn't resent it, then all
sorts of aviation related companies would be posting frequent website
and product "update" notices here. Yes, it's been tried by many
companies in the past but virtually all gave it up eventually. It
would be a mistake for Jay to take the support of a handful of his RAP
homeys as an indication of majority support in this.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Lance W wrote:
>
> It
> would be a mistake for Jay to take the support of a handful of his RAP
> homeys as an indication of majority support in this.

I suspect that Jay's RAP friends ARE the majority.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Tom Sixkiller]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Lance W wrote:
> >
> > It
> > would be a mistake for Jay to take the support of a handful of his RAP
> > homeys as an indication of majority support in this.
>
> I suspect that Jay's RAP friends ARE the majority.

By a very WIDDDDDDEEEEEE margin.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jerry Springer" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> You are the moron that seem to have a reading problem, now go play with
yourself
> somewhere else. It is spam to post the same thing over and over in a
newsgroup.
> think how cluttered the NG would be if everyone that had a web site posted
> everytime something was added to it. We all know Jay has a section
dedicated to
> aircraft pictures so maybe once a week he should just post his URL
insteead of
> each time someone adds to it.
> BTW my mother has been dead for two years. Now as I said go F yourself
somewhere
> else.

Geezzz..retarded AND a loud mouth!!!

[Cannonball PLONK!!]

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Lance W" > wrote in message
...
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote:
>
> >Ed was bitching that Jay's points were SPAM.
>
> Ed was right, it is spam. It is crossposted commercial spam guised as
> update notices.

Another ****house lawyer!!

{PLONK}

[Rosspilot]

>> Ed was right, it is spam.

Spam is solicitous. Jay's rogue's gallery is not trying to sell us anything,
hence, it is not spam as I understand the term. JMO.



www.Rosspilot.com

[VideoGuy]

"Rosspilot" > wrote in message
...

> Spam is solicitous. Jay's rogue's gallery is not trying to sell us
anything,
> hence, it is not spam as I understand the term. JMO.


> www.Rosspilot.com


Careful there with your wild and waaaayyyy out opinions there. Pretty soon
the trolls and SPAM police with refuse you the one-line sig you so blatantly
flaunt about.

Gary

[Geoffrey Barnes]

> You folks are great, and I really enjoy seeing what everyone is flying --
it
> makes the newsgroup experience just that much better.

Yes, it does, Jay. And thanks for hosting the pics. All those screaming
"spam" have never even tried to either run a business or be polite to
another human being. Luckily, you are capable of doing both at once.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"VideoGuy" <gkasten at brick dot net> wrote in message
...
>
> "Rosspilot" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Spam is solicitous. Jay's rogue's gallery is not trying to sell us
> anything,
> > hence, it is not spam as I understand the term. JMO.
>
>
> > www.Rosspilot.com
>
>
> Careful there with your wild and waaaayyyy out opinions there. Pretty
soon
> the trolls and SPAM police with refuse you the one-line sig you so
blatantly
> flaunt about.
>

:~)

Once again....Most criticism is self-serving.

[Scott McQ]

In article >, "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote:
>
>
>Lance W wrote:
>>
>> It
>> would be a mistake for Jay to take the support of a handful of his RAP
>> homeys as an indication of majority support in this.
>
>I suspect that Jay's RAP friends ARE the majority.
>
>George Patterson
> Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
> "Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

I doubt that they are the majority, just the loud ones.

I grew tired of his constant updates a while ago, and I
think most people did. I also think that the majority
decided as I did to toss his name into the killfile rather
than waste everybodies time complaining. Now I don't have
to look at his updates, and I doubt that the majority of
readers see his posts. That is the reason that repetitive
spamming is a waste of time - it goes unseen by those you
want to reach with your message.

Scott McQ

[Just Me]

> Tom Sixkiller > wrote:

> Once again....Most criticism is self-serving.

With the number of postings you have made to this group these past few
day some might say that your living proof of that.

[Newps]

Scott McQ wrote:


> I doubt that they are the majority, just the loud ones.
>
> I grew tired of his constant updates a while ago, and I
> think most people did. I also think that the majority
> decided as I did to toss his name into the killfile rather
> than waste everybodies time complaining. Now I don't have
> to look at his updates, and I doubt that the majority of
> readers see his posts. That is the reason that repetitive
> spamming is a waste of time - it goes unseen by those you
> want to reach with your message.

And yet you still reply.

[Lance W]

(Scott McQ) wrote:

>>I suspect that Jay's RAP friends ARE the majority.


>I doubt that they are the majority, just the loud ones.

Agreed. Funny how a handful of chitchat newsgroup homeys come to
believe they "are" the group.

[Verbs Under My Gel]

Ed Wischmeyer > wrote in message >...
> Enough of this spam in disguise advertising your motel...
>
> Ed Wischmeyer
> --

Why is there ellipsis at the end of this sentence fragment? I've
always been puzzled as to the correct use of ellipsis.

By the way, the signature goes _after_ the "-- ".

[Verbs Under My Gel]

Jerry Springer > wrote in message . net>...
> Why does he need to remove foot? I agree with Ron, I like Jay and he contributes
> to this NG but I really don't think we need to know each time someone posts to
> his web site.
>
> Jerry

Jay posts photos given him by the PARTICIPANTS OF THIS FORUM. For
free, at that. How hard would it be to filter these posts?

[Ed Wischmeyer]

> Enough of this spam in disguise advertising your motel...

> Why is there ellipsis at the end of this sentence fragment? I've
> always been puzzled as to the correct use of ellipsis.

Reduces tip losses with an ellipstical lift distribution... More
efficient than a constant chord, especially when folks have been harping
on the same one. Happens when you live 40 miles from the Sedona vortex
country. Just the tip for the day. :-)**4

Ed Wischmeyer

[EDR]

In article <mGCOb.95717$na.51203@attbi_s04>, Cy Galley
> wrote:

> Some people will complain even when hung with a new rope!

It's too rough. It itches my neck.

[Dan Luke]

"Ed Wischmeyer" wrote:
> > Why is there ellipsis at the end of this sentence fragment?
>
> Reduces tip losses with an ellipstical lift distribution...

Thanks. I always wondered about that, too.
<whoops> ...
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

[Tom Sixkiller]

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
> In article <mGCOb.95717$na.51203@attbi_s04>, Cy Galley
> > wrote:
>
> > Some people will complain even when hung with a new rope!
>
> It's too rough. It itches my neck.

....like wearing a neck tie! :~(

[Tom Sixkiller]

"karel adams" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Geoffrey Barnes" > schreef in bericht
> link.net...
> > > You folks are great, and I really enjoy seeing what everyone is
> flying --
> > it
> > > makes the newsgroup experience just that much better.
> >
> > Yes, it does, Jay. And thanks for hosting the pics. All those
> screaming
> > "spam" have never even tried to either run a business or be polite to
> > another human being. Luckily, you are capable of doing both at once.
>
>
> I'll heartily agree to that!
> Even so, Jay would really better limit his site update messages
> to once or twice monthly as someone else suggested
> It's a bit overdone by now, I also was close to killfiling...
> but Jay obviously IS a gentleman.
> KA from far away little Belgium

Crips, get a clue people....the site is A reference to THIS NEWSGROUP AND
IT'S PARTICIPANTS.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Scott McQ" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "G.R. Patterson III"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Lance W wrote:
> >>
> >> It
> >> would be a mistake for Jay to take the support of a handful of his RAP
> >> homeys as an indication of majority support in this.
> >
> >I suspect that Jay's RAP friends ARE the majority.
> >
> >George Patterson
> > Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually
said is
> > "Hummmmm... That's interesting...."
>
> I doubt that they are the majority, just the loud ones.
>
> I grew tired of his constant updates a while ago, and I
> think most people did. I also think that the majority
> decided as I did to toss his name into the killfile rather
> than waste everybodies time complaining.

Considering the number of people who read it, I'd say your self-serving
estimate of the people that KF'd it is total bull****.


> Now I don't have
> to look at his updates, and I doubt that the majority of
> readers see his posts. That is the reason that repetitive
> spamming is a waste of time - it goes unseen by those you
> want to reach with your message.
>

Yup...you're completely full of **** in numerous ways.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Newps" > wrote in message
news:CcLOb.97490$I06.432698@attbi_s01...
>
>
> Scott McQ wrote:
>
>
> > I doubt that they are the majority, just the loud ones.
> >
> > I grew tired of his constant updates a while ago, and I
> > think most people did. I also think that the majority
> > decided as I did to toss his name into the killfile rather
> > than waste everybodies time complaining. Now I don't have
> > to look at his updates, and I doubt that the majority of
> > readers see his posts. That is the reason that repetitive
> > spamming is a waste of time - it goes unseen by those you
> > want to reach with your message.
>
> And yet you still reply.

He's trying for self-justification.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Just Me" > wrote in message
...
> > Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
>
> > Once again....Most criticism is self-serving.
>
> With the number of postings you have made to this group these past few
> day some might say that your living proof of that.

And what would I gain?

You can remove your head from your ass at any time.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Verbs Under My Gel" > wrote in message
m...
> Jerry Springer > wrote in message
. net>...
> > Why does he need to remove foot? I agree with Ron, I like Jay and he
contributes
> > to this NG but I really don't think we need to know each time someone
posts to
> > his web site.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> Jay posts photos given him by the PARTICIPANTS OF THIS FORUM. For
> free, at that. How hard would it be to filter these posts?

Not hard at all, but then he wouldn't have something to stoke his envy.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Tom Sixkiller
> > wrote:
>
> > > > Some people will complain even when hung with a new rope!
> > >
> > > It's too rough. It itches my neck.
> >
> > ...like wearing a neck tie! :~(
>
> Yep... it cuts off circulation to the brain.

And parts below.

[EDR]

In article >, Tom Sixkiller
> wrote:

> > > Some people will complain even when hung with a new rope!
> >
> > It's too rough. It itches my neck.
>
> ...like wearing a neck tie! :~(

Yep... it cuts off circulation to the brain.

[Lance W]

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote:

>Crips, get a clue people....the site is A reference to THIS NEWSGROUP AND
>IT'S PARTICIPANTS.

You are the who needs the clue, Mr. "Sixkiller". The reference is to a
page on a commercial hotel website with full website menu, hotel
address, phone number, and solicitation along the left side of the
page.


To Jay,

Many commercial websites include ancillary information within their
site. After all, it is good business practice and generally leads to
good will and increased exposure in Google searches. The problem comes
when such a website attempts to increase exposure by posting frequent
"update" notices to usenet. As can be seen by the responses in this
thread, some people view such update notices as an advertising ploy
and resent it. In this thread I count six in favor, four against, and
two suggesting biweekly or monthly update notices. If your intention
is to please a relatively small group of "rogue gallery" participants
at the risk of ****ing off a silent majority then by all means
continue. As I noted earlier, there is a reason that websites do not
spam newsgroups with frequent update notices. Caveat vendor.

[Lance W]

"karel adams" > wrote:

>> Crips, get a clue people....

>PLOINK

Yes, Karel, I can understand your kill-filing "Tom Sixkiller". His
logic is flawed, his posts are childish, and his rabid over-the-top
support for Jay lost all effectiveness early in the thread.

[Jay Honeck]

> I grew tired of his constant updates a while ago, and I
> think most people did. I also think that the majority
> decided as I did to toss his name into the killfile rather
> than waste everybodies time complaining.

Boy, I go away for a couple of days, and look at the brouhaha! (Spell THAT
one without a chell-specker! :-)

It's probably a waste of electrons explaining why I'm doing the Rogues
Gallery, but I'll try anyway. Here goes:

1. The strength of these newsgroups is the fact that they are text-based but
NOT instantaneous.
2. Unfortunately, this fact renders them "flat" and "2-dimensional". No
pictures means no airplanes!
3. Jav Henderson, a long-time contributor to these groups, kindly hosts the
webpage, and has done so since Day One. He provides the bandwidth for our
Rogue's Gallery, free of charge, so that all of us can post pictures of what
we fly.
4. I really, REALLY like aviation. I've pretty much mortgaged my future on
a stupid dream to create an aviation-themed hotel, simply because I think
it's cool.
5. I have NO notion of "getting rich" doing it. Anyone in the lodging
industry can verify that owning a 27-suite hotel ain't gonna generate big
bucks.

The Rogue's Gallery exists because it needs to. I've become good friends
with people from all over the world through this forum, and have learned
more about flying here than anywhere else -- and I want to see what they
look like, and what they are flying. The fact that over 60 pilots, from all
over the world, have sent in photos of their planes for inclusion in the
Rogue's Gallery indicates that I am not alone in my sentiment.

The closest I get to "Spam" (as I understand it) is when I post an
announcement that a new suite has been finished. You should know, however,
that I post them here because I'm jazzed at all the cool airplane stuff
we've put together, and hope that you are, too! Remember, the coolest stuff
we've put in the hotel has been DONATED to us by people who are just as nuts
about airplanes as we are, but don't want their memorabilia to end up in the
trash when they die. Witness Bob Morgan's "Memphis Belle" stuff, Bill Fox's
SR-71 Blackbird and U-2 stuff, the MATS Constellation stuff, and (most
recently) Vlado Lenoch's P-51 Mustang stuff. These people didn't have to
give us anything -- but just they know what we're trying to create, and want
other pilots and aviation enthusiasts to enjoy and remember.

In closing, for those who STILL think I'm "spamming" here, read this: If
any of you come to visit, well that's just great, I'll buy you a beer -- but
it really doesn't matter. Newsgroup participants have been (and will be) an
immeasurably small percentage of our guest-count.

In the meantime, if any of you want pictures of YOUR pride and joy posted
for the rest of us to see, send 'em to me at , and
I'll post 'em! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:cQZOb.101351$8H.151222@attbi_s03...
> > I grew tired of his constant updates a while ago, and I
> > think most people did. I also think that the majority
> > decided as I did to toss his name into the killfile rather
> > than waste everybodies time complaining.
>
> Boy, I go away for a couple of days, and look at the brouhaha! (Spell
THAT
> one without a chell-specker! :-)
>
> It's probably a waste of electrons explaining why I'm doing the Rogues
> Gallery, but I'll try anyway. Here goes:
>
> 1. The strength of these newsgroups is the fact that they are text-based
but
> NOT instantaneous.
> 2. Unfortunately, this fact renders them "flat" and "2-dimensional". No
> pictures means no airplanes!
> 3. Jav Henderson, a long-time contributor to these groups, kindly hosts
the
> webpage, and has done so since Day One. He provides the bandwidth for our
> Rogue's Gallery, free of charge, so that all of us can post pictures of
what
> we fly.
> 4. I really, REALLY like aviation. I've pretty much mortgaged my future
on
> a stupid dream to create an aviation-themed hotel, simply because I think
> it's cool.
> 5. I have NO notion of "getting rich" doing it. Anyone in the lodging
> industry can verify that owning a 27-suite hotel ain't gonna generate big
> bucks.
>
> The Rogue's Gallery exists because it needs to. I've become good friends
> with people from all over the world through this forum, and have learned
> more about flying here than anywhere else -- and I want to see what they
> look like, and what they are flying. The fact that over 60 pilots, from
all
> over the world, have sent in photos of their planes for inclusion in the
> Rogue's Gallery indicates that I am not alone in my sentiment.
>
> The closest I get to "Spam" (as I understand it) is when I post an
> announcement that a new suite has been finished. You should know,
however,
> that I post them here because I'm jazzed at all the cool airplane stuff
> we've put together, and hope that you are, too! Remember, the coolest
stuff
> we've put in the hotel has been DONATED to us by people who are just as
nuts
> about airplanes as we are, but don't want their memorabilia to end up in
the
> trash when they die. Witness Bob Morgan's "Memphis Belle" stuff, Bill
Fox's
> SR-71 Blackbird and U-2 stuff, the MATS Constellation stuff, and (most
> recently) Vlado Lenoch's P-51 Mustang stuff. These people didn't have to
> give us anything -- but just they know what we're trying to create, and
want
> other pilots and aviation enthusiasts to enjoy and remember.
>
> In closing, for those who STILL think I'm "spamming" here, read this: If
> any of you come to visit, well that's just great, I'll buy you a beer --
but
> it really doesn't matter. Newsgroup participants have been (and will be)
an
> immeasurably small percentage of our guest-count.
>
> In the meantime, if any of you want pictures of YOUR pride and joy posted
> for the rest of us to see, send 'em to me at , and
> I'll post 'em! :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
Spammer!! :~)

[Jay Honeck]

> The problem comes
> when such a website attempts to increase exposure by posting frequent
> "update" notices to usenet. As can be seen by the responses in this
> thread, some people view such update notices as an advertising ploy
> and resent it. In this thread I count six in favor, four against, and
> two suggesting biweekly or monthly update notices. If your intention
> is to please a relatively small group of "rogue gallery" participants
> at the risk of ****ing off a silent majority then by all means
> continue.

Hi Lance,

Believe it or not, I've posted the frequent updates because I wanted the
people who sent me their photos to know I'd actually posted them. Sometimes
I've had to "sit" on their photos for a week or more, until I had time to
update the Rogue's Gallery, and I wanted the participants to see them and
know I hadn't forgotten them.

I apologize if these posts have seemed excessive, but I truly thought that
everyone here would be interested in seeing the new additions...

I'm eternally amazed at my ability to inadvertently **** people off. (Mary
is, too! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom Dukerich]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:34:32 +0000, Jay Honeck wrote:

> 5. I have NO notion of "getting rich" doing it. Anyone in the lodging
> industry can verify that owning a 27-suite hotel ain't gonna generate big
> bucks.
>

Yahoo weather shows a high of 17 F and low of 5 F in Iowa City.
Gentle ribbing, thanks for the Gallery :-)

[Jay Honeck]

> Yahoo weather shows a high of 17 F and low of 5 F in Iowa City.

Yeah, well, it's warmer here than it was in Wisconsin! Darn near froze my
pitot tube off pre-flighting in Lake Geneva this morning...

;-)

> Gentle ribbing, thanks for the Gallery :-)

You're welcome!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Tom Dukerich" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:34:32 +0000, Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> > 5. I have NO notion of "getting rich" doing it. Anyone in the lodging
> > industry can verify that owning a 27-suite hotel ain't gonna generate
big
> > bucks.
> >
>
> Yahoo weather shows a high of 17 F and low of 5 F in Iowa City.
> Gentle ribbing, thanks for the Gallery :-)

See!! He ain't going to get RICH or WARM!!

[Jim Weir]

It's a talent, Jay. Cultivate it and watch it grow. I know I have.

{;-)

Jim



"Jay Honeck" >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->
->I'm eternally amazed at my ability to inadvertently **** people off. (Mary
->is, too! :-)

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Chuck]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:K_ZOb.101415$8H.151794@attbi_s03...

<snip>

> Hi Lance,
>
> Believe it or not, I've posted the frequent updates because I wanted the
> people who sent me their photos to know I'd actually posted them.
Sometimes
> I've had to "sit" on their photos for a week or more, until I had time to
> update the Rogue's Gallery, and I wanted the participants to see them and
> know I hadn't forgotten them.
>
> I apologize if these posts have seemed excessive, but I truly thought that
> everyone here would be interested in seeing the new additions...
>
> I'm eternally amazed at my ability to inadvertently **** people off.
(Mary
> is, too! :-)
> --


Hey Jay..

Keep up the good work...

Personally, I feel that your updates are not too frequent, although I did
see a suggestion that may be a good idea. It was to list your updates once a
month or so.

I enjoy viewing your webpage and all of the different pics and videos that
you have for us to enjoy with you.

Thanks for the hard work that goes into your webpage, and I still plan to
drive to Iowa City and check out your hotel.

Don't let a few assholes ruin it for all of us.

[My Thoughts Exactly]

> Tom Sixkiller > wrote:

> See!! He ain't going to get RICH or WARM!!

You talk too much.

[Terry]

Jay Honeck wrote:
<snipped>
It's probably a waste of electrons explaining why I'm doing the Rogues
Gallery, but I'll try anyway.

Keep doing what your doing Jay... I enjoy your postings and
contributions to this newsgroup! I'm quite sure 99 % of the other
readers do as well....

I'll send you my little cessna pics and info when I get a little
time...

Fly safe...and Thanks!

Terry
N6401F

[Tom Sixkiller]

"My Thoughts Exactly" > wrote in message
...
> > Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
>
> > See!! He ain't going to get RICH or WARM!!
>
> You talk too much.

Stick it where the sun don't shine, SFB!

[EDR]

Damn! It took me 40 years to break what people kept telling me was a
bad habit. Now, Jim says it is a talent. I am gifted and didn't even
know it.

In article >, Jim Weir
> wrote:

> It's a talent, Jay. Cultivate it and watch it grow. I know I have.
> {;-)

> "Jay Honeck" >
> shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

> ->I'm eternally amazed at my ability to inadvertently **** people off. (Mary
> ->is, too! :-)

[Bob Noel]

In article >, Tom Dukerich
> wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:34:32 +0000, Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> > 5. I have NO notion of "getting rich" doing it. Anyone in the lodging
> > industry can verify that owning a 27-suite hotel ain't gonna generate
> > big
> > bucks.
> >
>
> Yahoo weather shows a high of 17 F and low of 5 F in Iowa City.
> Gentle ribbing, thanks for the Gallery :-)

hey, that's warmer than Boston has been seeing recently!

--
Bob Noel

[Snowbird]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<K_ZOb.101415$8H.151794@attbi_s03>...
> Believe it or not, I've posted the frequent updates because I wanted the
> people who sent me their photos to know I'd actually posted them. Sometimes
> I've had to "sit" on their photos for a week or more, until I had time to
> update the Rogue's Gallery, and I wanted the participants to see them and
> know I hadn't forgotten them.
>
> I apologize if these posts have seemed excessive, but I truly thought that
> everyone here would be interested in seeing the new additions...

Jay,

As a (hopefully constructive) suggestion, perhaps you might
consider sending an email to people who've sent you photos
letting them know they're now on the web page, then posting
about the web page on about the same interval as a FAQ?

Say, maybe once a month? That would seem to suffice to let
people know the Rogue's Gallery exists, how to join it, and
what's new this month without seeming excessive (to most people
anyway).

If a personal endorsement matters, I appreciate the manner in
which I was able to discuss my differences with you and
at least come to a point where we understood each other
(at least I think we understood each other). In my book that
shows you to be a high-quality human being.

And by having the guts to try to run an aviation-themed
business on an airport, you're certainly living my dream!

By the way, thanks for starting the Rogue's Gallery.

Cheers,
Sydney (rogue not part of da gallery)

[Peter R.]

Martin Hotze ) wrote:

> or how about using the 4 (not 5!) lines of signature for these messages?

Or, post the same message twice! ;-)

--
Peter












----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[Lance W]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

>I apologize if these posts have seemed excessive, but I truly thought that
>everyone here would be interested in seeing the new additions...

Obviously, you thought wrong. Yet, you continue with your rude
spamming by posting yet another crossposted "update" notice today.
Since my last post, three more of your friends have suggested that a
monthly "update" notice interval might be better, yet you apparently
turn a blind eye to their constructive advice. And two more people
have since publicly killfiled you. No telling how many have quietly
killfiled you. You WILL eventually come to regret your spamming
because the backlash will continue to mount just as it always has in
the past. Before your rudeness was exposed, I had planned to stay a
night or two at your establishment. That, of course, won't happen now.

[Jay Honeck]

> Obviously, you thought wrong. Yet, you continue with your rude
> spamming by posting yet another crossposted "update" notice today.
> Since my last post, three more of your friends have suggested that a
> monthly "update" notice interval might be better, yet you apparently
> turn a blind eye to their constructive advice. And two more people
> have since publicly killfiled you. No telling how many have quietly
> killfiled you. You WILL eventually come to regret your spamming

Look, doofus "Lance"-boy, up till now I've accommodated your condescending
bull**** tone with uncommon good humor -- but you've crossed the line.

The Rogue's Gallery of airplane photos exists for the people who use this
group. I have created it in my "spare" time, and -- in case you haven't
noticed -- no one here much cares if you don't like it. Personally, I've
got a business to run, a family to raise, and flying to do, and I don't have
time to put together some sort of an "Outlook-style" calendar of monthly
updates, just so idiots like you don't have to read "excessive" 3-sentence
posts.

I understand these brief updates may tax your attention span, your patience,
and your memory -- but for those contributors who have spent a fair amount
of time compiling their photos (and narratives) into a package that they
sent to me, fully expecting their photos to be published for all to see, it
is only fair to THEM that their presence in the Gallery be announced to all
in this forum.

Maybe when you post your real, full name, rather than hiding behind a
pseudonym and a bogus email address, someone here will care what you think.
Until you develop that kind of a spine, however, I suggest finding another
hobby.

So kill-file me -- PLEASE! -- and leave this group to the constructive folks
who benefit from its existence.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dumber than Dumb]

> Lance W > wrote:

> Obviously, you thought wrong. Yet, you continue with your rude
> spamming by posting yet another crossposted "update" notice today.
> Since my last post, three more of your friends have suggested that a
> monthly "update" notice interval might be better, yet you apparently
> turn a blind eye to their constructive advice. And two more people
> have since publicly killfiled you. No telling how many have quietly
> killfiled you. You WILL eventually come to regret your spamming
> because the backlash will continue to mount just as it always has in
> the past. Before your rudeness was exposed, I had planned to stay a
> night or two at your establishment. That, of course, won't happen now.

Sounds like he's too stupid to realize that you can win the battle but
lose the war.

[Jack Davis]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 04:02:16 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:


>Personally, I've got a business to run, a family to raise, and flying to do

You're my kind of guy, Jay. My wife and I are already working on an
excuse to come stay at your place.

-J

Jack Davis
B-737


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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Peter R.]

Lance W ) wrote:

> Obviously, you thought wrong. Yet, you continue with your rude
> spamming by posting yet another crossposted "update" notice today.

I am continually amazed at people who spend more energy bitching about a
problem than solving it.

Since Jay uses the same wording in every subject line of these posts, why
not simply create a rule in your newsreader to ignore the threads. Takes
about five seconds of time and in return, you will receive a lifetime of
stress-free newsgroup browsing. Or even easier, just killfile him
altogether.

Either solution uses much less energy than the effort required for you to
whine and bitch here.

--
Peter












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---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[Jay Honeck]

> Either solution uses much less energy than the effort required for you to
> whine and bitch here.

They're not interested in a "solution" -- because they are trying to find a
"solution" where no problem exists. If you don't want to read about the new
people in the gallery, just skip the topic and move on. We're not talking
rocket science here...

Oh well -- every time these few dolts complain about the announcements, I
receive a slew of new additions to the Rogue's Gallery in my email. The
success of the Gallery speaks for itself, as we've now got over 70
participants' planes displayed!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Lance W ) wrote:
>
> > Obviously, you thought wrong. Yet, you continue with your rude
> > spamming by posting yet another crossposted "update" notice today.
>
> I am continually amazed at people who spend more energy bitching about a
> problem than solving it.
>
> Since Jay uses the same wording in every subject line of these posts, why
> not simply create a rule in your newsreader to ignore the threads. Takes
> about five seconds of time and in return, you will receive a lifetime of
> stress-free newsgroup browsing. Or even easier, just killfile him
> altogether.
>
>
> --
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---

[Snowbird]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<cRmPb.110270$xy6.329120@attbi_s02>...
> > Obviously, you thought wrong. Yet, you continue with your rude
> > spamming by posting yet another crossposted "update" notice today.
> > Since my last post, three more of your friends have suggested that a
> > monthly "update" notice interval might be better, yet you apparently
> > turn a blind eye to their constructive advice. And two more people
> > have since publicly killfiled you. No telling how many have quietly
> > killfiled you. You WILL eventually come to regret your spamming

> Look, doofus "Lance"-boy, up till now I've accommodated your condescending
> bull**** tone with uncommon good humor -- but you've crossed the line.

Jesu, Jay! Talk about crossing the line!

> The Rogue's Gallery of airplane photos exists for the people who use this
> group. I have created it in my "spare" time, and -- in case you haven't
> noticed -- no one here much cares if you don't like it. Personally, I've
> got a business to run, a family to raise, and flying to do, and I don't have
> time to put together some sort of an "Outlook-style" calendar of monthly
> updates, just so idiots like you don't have to read "excessive" 3-sentence
> posts.

Look, Jay. Several people, myself included, have pointed out
that you're creating a red herring here. No one has suggested an
"Outlook-style" calendar -- just that you turn down the volume
a bit.

If you have time to post each time you update, you have time
to take the text you post, add it to a .txt file, then post
that .txt file once a month. It really just makes you look
pretty silly to suggest otherwise.

If you choose to do things differently, so be it, but I really
think you ought to sit down, drink a beer, and ask yourself
just what you're accomplishing by actively abusing those who
don't like what you're doing now as "idiots" etc etc. Because
whatever people's views on your frequent posts are (and I suspect
most people didn't care either way), I think you might be
starting to leave an impression. I know I'm getting one I
didn't have before.

And frankly, if people don't like what you're doing, they
have no obligation to killfile you; they have as much right
to post their objections as you have to post whatever you
please.

Now have at me, Big Guy.

Sydney

[Jay Honeck]

> and I doubt that the homebuilt-folks you are crossposting to are really
> interested.

Over 20% of the Rogue's Gallery is from participants in the homebuilt group.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Snowbird]

Peter R. > wrote in message >...
> I am continually amazed at people who spend more energy bitching about a
> problem than solving it.

Peter,

With respect, while you're perfectly correct about the ease
of filtering or disregarding some posts, I think you misunderstand
what some people see as the issue. It's not a problem which can
really be solved by individual filters. Let me explain.

I was kinda hoping that someone better at explaining USENET
history than I would address this but, seems not so I'll take
a shot. This is for informational and educational purposes
and isn't intended to induce anyone to purchase a lottery ticket.

Suppose you found a newsgroup with an interesting topic
like rec.aviation.whatever. However, when you downloaded
the posts, it was chock full of posts from commercial
establishments. Now there might still be people talking
in the NG. They might even be having interesting discussions
about flying and airplanes that you'd like to join. But
if you didn't know what posters or topics to killfile, it
would just look like a group full of junk and you'd wander
on. Eventually, as the regulars moved on through normal
attrition, there'd be less and less topical discussion and
the ng would wither. (stay with me, I'm getting to the point)

For that reason among others, newsgroups prohibit commercial
postings. Since many commercial sites include useful or
interesting information, posts which direct the reader to
interesting information on a commercial site are widely
considered to be commercial postings even if they just say
"come see the cool updated info on my commercial site".

This is a bit of a gray area, obviously, and different people
will see it differently. If the web site is cited as an
answer to a direct question ie "where can I get information
about how to make my own aircraft antennae?" or "where
can I find pictures of all you hooligans?" I think very
few people object. For some, the dividing line is the
frequency of posts directing the reader to the site or
to what extent they are cross-posted. Occasional posts
don't typically draw comment. Frequent posts, esp. cross
posted, start looking more like spam.

But the concern is: if one business person is making
frequent posts directing people to updates of the non-
commercial stuff on his commercial site and that's
considered just ducky, will other business people
follow suit? It's especially a concern if they're all
cross posted; will we soon have multiple newsgroups
packed full of such postings, where it's hard to find
the 'signal'?

It's a valid concern. I've seen similar things happen
to other newsgroups I used to read.

And it's clearly not a concern which can be "solved"
by everyone who objects killfiling the offending threads
or poster. In fact, doing so might be seen as counter-
productive, since if such posts are seen to meet with
nothing but approval, other businesspeople could (with
justification) see it as an approved, appropriate thing
to do.

I cherish the rec.aviation groups, most of which have
a pretty high signal to noise despite the occasional
Invasion of the Loons or heated argument. I really
don't want to see them become a Forest of "Come see
the latest update to my rec.aviation flight tracker
info on my site!"

It seems to me that the issue has several solutions.
Most web hosting services seem to allow multiple
domain names. The "rogue's gallery" could be put
under a separate domain, rather than as a part of
Jay's site. Update notices could be posted at
a more reasonable interval. But compromise doesn't
seem to be on the agenda here (shades of my 4 yo:
cover ears NYA NYA NYA YOU'RE STUPID I'M NOT LISTENING
YOU'RE A BUM NYA NYA) and this whole thread seems
to be bringing out Beaucoup du Loons, so I'm outta
here.

> Since Jay uses the same wording in every subject line of
> these posts, why not simply create a rule in your newsreader
> to ignore the threads.

Because, while it's easy, it wouldn't solve what some see
as the problem.

Hope this helps clarify the issues for some,
Sydney

[Larry Dighera]

Given:

rogue \"rog\ noun [origin unknown] (1561)
1 : vagrant, tramp
2 : a dishonest or worthless person : scoundrel
3 : a mischievous person : scamp
4 : a horse inclined to shirk or misbehave
5 : an individual exhibiting a chance and usu. inferior
biological variation

Merriam-Webster, Incorporated


It would seem the rude author of the vulgar articles below profaning
fellow airmen would be eminently qualified for inclusion the subject
gallery:

--------------------------------------

From: "Tom Sixkiller" >
Newsgroups:
rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.avi ation.piloting
Message-ID: >
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:43:29 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.13.179.155
X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1074473007 130.13.179.155 (Sun, 18 Jan 2004
18:43:27 CST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 18:43:27 CST

Another ****house lawyer!!

-------------------------------------

From: "Tom Sixkiller" >
Newsgroups:
rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.avi ation.piloting
Message-ID: >
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:09:19 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.13.179.155
X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1074535761 130.13.179.155 (Mon, 19 Jan 2004
12:09:21 CST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:09:21 CST

Considering the number of people who read it, I'd say your
self-serving estimate of the people that KF'd it is total bull****.

Yup...you're completely full of **** in numerous ways.

--------------------------------------

From: "Tom Sixkiller" >
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Message-ID: >
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:10:36 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.13.179.155
X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1074535839 130.13.179.155 (Mon, 19 Jan 2004
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You can remove your head from your ass at any time.

---------------------------------------

From: "Tom Sixkiller" >
Newsgroups:
rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.avi ation.piloting
Message-ID: >
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:55:14 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.13.179.155
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Stick it where the sun don't shine, SFB!

----------------------------------------

From: "Tom Sixkiller" >
Newsgroups:
rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.avi ation.piloting
Message-ID: >
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:37:16 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.13.179.155
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08:37:16 CST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:37:16 CST

Hey, stupid!

He's drumming up support for this group that your pathetic ass gets to
enjoy.

Stick it where the sun don't shine, prick!

----------------------------------------


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free time." -- Neil Stephenson

[Jay Honeck]

> Because, while it's easy, it wouldn't solve what some see
> as the problem.
>
> Hope this helps clarify the issues for some,

Yes, it does. Thanks, Sydney.

Although (as always happens when an uproar like this starts rolling along)
I've now got a back-log of photos and bios from eager contributors to upload
to the Gallery, I will try to keep their announcements to a minimum.

It's a real shame that this site -- created solely for users of this
forum -- is being painted with the same brush as commercial sites, but I
*do* see your point. It's a slippery slope from announcing the Rogue's
Gallery additions to allowing other sites with more tangential (I.E.:
commercial) connections -- and then all we'll have here is a newsgroups full
of commercial announcements. I, too, have seen this happen to other
newsgroups, and it destroys the group.

Please be aware, all, that I created the Rogue's Gallery with the best of
intentions.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Snowbird" > wrote in message
om...
> Peter R. > wrote in message
>...
> > I am continually amazed at people who spend more energy bitching about a
> > problem than solving it.
>
> Peter,
>
> With respect, while you're perfectly correct about the ease
> of filtering or disregarding some posts, I think you misunderstand
> what some people see as the issue. It's not a problem which can
> really be solved by individual filters. Let me explain.
>
> I was kinda hoping that someone better at explaining USENET
> history than I would address this but, seems not so I'll take
> a shot. This is for informational and educational purposes
> and isn't intended to induce anyone to purchase a lottery ticket.
>
> Suppose you found a newsgroup with an interesting topic
> like rec.aviation.whatever. However, when you downloaded
> the posts, it was chock full of posts from commercial
> establishments. Now there might still be people talking
> in the NG. They might even be having interesting discussions
> about flying and airplanes that you'd like to join. But
> if you didn't know what posters or topics to killfile, it
> would just look like a group full of junk and you'd wander
> on. Eventually, as the regulars moved on through normal
> attrition, there'd be less and less topical discussion and
> the ng would wither. (stay with me, I'm getting to the point)
>
> For that reason among others, newsgroups prohibit commercial
> postings. Since many commercial sites include useful or
> interesting information, posts which direct the reader to
> interesting information on a commercial site are widely
> considered to be commercial postings even if they just say
> "come see the cool updated info on my commercial site".
>
> This is a bit of a gray area, obviously, and different people
> will see it differently. If the web site is cited as an
> answer to a direct question ie "where can I get information
> about how to make my own aircraft antennae?" or "where
> can I find pictures of all you hooligans?" I think very
> few people object. For some, the dividing line is the
> frequency of posts directing the reader to the site or
> to what extent they are cross-posted. Occasional posts
> don't typically draw comment. Frequent posts, esp. cross
> posted, start looking more like spam.
>
> But the concern is: if one business person is making
> frequent posts directing people to updates of the non-
> commercial stuff on his commercial site and that's
> considered just ducky, will other business people
> follow suit? It's especially a concern if they're all
> cross posted; will we soon have multiple newsgroups
> packed full of such postings, where it's hard to find
> the 'signal'?
>
> It's a valid concern. I've seen similar things happen
> to other newsgroups I used to read.
>
> And it's clearly not a concern which can be "solved"
> by everyone who objects killfiling the offending threads
> or poster. In fact, doing so might be seen as counter-
> productive, since if such posts are seen to meet with
> nothing but approval, other businesspeople could (with
> justification) see it as an approved, appropriate thing
> to do.
>
> I cherish the rec.aviation groups, most of which have
> a pretty high signal to noise despite the occasional
> Invasion of the Loons or heated argument. I really
> don't want to see them become a Forest of "Come see
> the latest update to my rec.aviation flight tracker
> info on my site!"
>
> It seems to me that the issue has several solutions.
> Most web hosting services seem to allow multiple
> domain names. The "rogue's gallery" could be put
> under a separate domain, rather than as a part of
> Jay's site. Update notices could be posted at
> a more reasonable interval. But compromise doesn't
> seem to be on the agenda here (shades of my 4 yo:
> cover ears NYA NYA NYA YOU'RE STUPID I'M NOT LISTENING
> YOU'RE A BUM NYA NYA) and this whole thread seems
> to be bringing out Beaucoup du Loons, so I'm outta
> here.
>
> > Since Jay uses the same wording in every subject line of
> > these posts, why not simply create a rule in your newsreader
> > to ignore the threads.
>
> Sydney

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:AKPPb.122190$8H.311989@attbi_s03...
> > Because, while it's easy, it wouldn't solve what some see
> > as the problem.
> >
> > Hope this helps clarify the issues for some,
>
> Yes, it does. Thanks, Sydney.
>
> Although (as always happens when an uproar like this starts rolling along)
> I've now got a back-log of photos and bios from eager contributors to
upload
> to the Gallery, I will try to keep their announcements to a minimum.
>
> It's a real shame that this site -- created solely for users of this
> forum -- is being painted with the same brush as commercial sites, but I
> *do* see your point. It's a slippery slope from announcing the Rogue's
> Gallery additions to allowing other sites with more tangential (I.E.:
> commercial) connections -- and then all we'll have here is a newsgroups
full
> of commercial announcements. I, too, have seen this happen to other
> newsgroups, and it destroys the group.
>
> Please be aware, all, that I created the Rogue's Gallery with the best of
> intentions.

That's obvious to even the most casual observation, Jay.

Thanks a bunch for all your unappreciated efforts.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:AKPPb.122190$8H.311989@attbi_s03...
> > Because, while it's easy, it wouldn't solve what some see
> > as the problem.
> >
> > Hope this helps clarify the issues for some,
>
> Yes, it does. Thanks, Sydney.
>
> Although (as always happens when an uproar like this starts rolling along)
> I've now got a back-log of photos and bios from eager contributors to
upload
> to the Gallery, I will try to keep their announcements to a minimum.
>
> It's a real shame that this site -- created solely for users of this
> forum -- is being painted with the same brush as commercial sites, but I
> *do* see your point. It's a slippery slope from announcing the Rogue's
> Gallery additions to allowing other sites with more tangential (I.E.:
> commercial) connections -- and then all we'll have here is a newsgroups
full
> of commercial announcements. I, too, have seen this happen to other
> newsgroups, and it destroys the group.
>
> Please be aware, all, that I created the Rogue's Gallery with the best of
> intentions.

Remember, too, that some people have the notion that time spent in a NG
produces some sort of squatters rights.

[Rosspilot]

>
>Thanks a bunch for all your unappreciated efforts.

Au contraire. He is much-appreciated, but (like ALL of us) subject to
criticism for what he posts. After all, it's a huge worldwide audience, and you
cannot please everyone.





www.Rosspilot.com

[Dave Butler]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Sydney wrote:
>>Hope this helps clarify the issues for some,
>
>
> Yes, it does. Thanks, Sydney.

My thanks, too, Sydney, for taking the time to explain so eloquently.

>
> Although (as always happens when an uproar like this starts rolling along)
> I've now got a back-log of photos and bios from eager contributors to upload
> to the Gallery, I will try to keep their announcements to a minimum.

Thanks, Jay. I knew you were a reasonable fellow.

<snip>
>
> Please be aware, all, that I created the Rogue's Gallery with the best of
> intentions.

Indeed. I'm quite sure that's the case.

Now let's get back to aviation. :-)

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.
Dave

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Rosspilot" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >Thanks a bunch for all your unappreciated efforts.
>
> Au contraire. He is much-appreciated, but (like ALL of us) subject to
> criticism for what he posts. After all, it's a huge worldwide audience,
and you
> cannot please everyone.
>
So you...gotta please yourself.

(Sorry, Ricky)

[Snowbird]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<AKPPb.122190$8H.311989@attbi_s03>...
> > Because, while it's easy, it wouldn't solve what some see
> > as the problem.
<..>
> > Hope this helps clarify the issues for some,

> Yes, it does. Thanks, Sydney.

You're welcome. I'm glad it helped.

It's always a problem when an issue like this comes up;
it can be hard for folks to recognize that they aren't
all operating from the same information or premises,
insults start flying, "ah the humanity" *g*

> It's a real shame that this site -- created solely for users of this
> forum -- is being painted with the same brush as commercial sites, but I
> *do* see your point.

Yeah. I personally see it as on the "OK" side of the line,
but I think I understand where people are coming from who see it
differently and I do think it's worthwhile to respect their POV.

Because in the big picture what matters isn't really how you or
I see it, but how others who might be coming to the group with
a product to advertise are gonna see it. So it seems like if
it's a small thing to change why not accomodate. My $0.02 anyway.

> Please be aware, all, that I created the Rogue's Gallery with the best of
> intentions.

I never doubted that, which is why I hung in and kept talking :)

Best,
Sydney

[Roger Halstead]

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:54:56 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> Because, while it's easy, it wouldn't solve what some see
>> as the problem.
>>
>> Hope this helps clarify the issues for some,
>
>Yes, it does. Thanks, Sydney.

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing wrong with posting non
commercial items on a commercial site.

I have my own dot come, but as I have nothing to sell, no adds, and
only personal *stuff* or local EAA chapter *stuff*, it's a non
commercial dot com.

However to those commercial sites that host charitable, or non
commercial adventures without adds there should be no problem.

>
>Although (as always happens when an uproar like this starts rolling along)
>I've now got a back-log of photos and bios from eager contributors to upload
>to the Gallery, I will try to keep their announcements to a minimum.
>
>It's a real shame that this site -- created solely for users of this
>forum -- is being painted with the same brush as commercial sites, but I

I have difficulty seeing how it could be painted that way by any one
who looks at it.

Many commercial sites host user sites and although the users are non
commercial, the site is under the commercial sites dot com.

We have several here. Some put adds on the users sites as part of the
TOS even though they are non commercial ventures.

>*do* see your point. It's a slippery slope from announcing the Rogue's
>Gallery additions to allowing other sites with more tangential (I.E.:

As long as there is a distinction between the commercial part of the
site and the gallery there should be no slippery slope.

>commercial) connections -- and then all we'll have here is a newsgroups full
>of commercial announcements. I, too, have seen this happen to other
>newsgroups, and it destroys the group.

I see a large distinction between a commercial site hosting a non
commercial venture and those of a commercial nature.

>
>Please be aware, all, that I created the Rogue's Gallery with the best of
>intentions.

Jay, those of us who understand, need no explanation and those who
don't, never will no matter how much explanation you give.

Some probably would find fault even if it were a completely non
commercial site, just due to the repetition.

For the sensitive types, you could just make a weekly announcement
although for them monthly would probably be too much.

Although I understand the enthusiasm, "were it me" and it's not, I'd
just make a weekly announcement of updates. Besides, it's less
work<:-)).

I take care of four sites (all non commercial) and keeping them
up-to-date takes quite a few hours. Plus on my own I get to practice
new programs and techniques. For me, the programming is more play.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Jay Honeck]

> Although I understand the enthusiasm, "were it me" and it's not, I'd
> just make a weekly announcement of updates. Besides, it's less
> work<:-)).

Thanks for the support, Roger. I was truly taken aback by the ferocity of
the opposition to the Rogue's Gallery announcements.

My problem is that my days are incredibly disjointed, yet filled to
over-flowing. As a result, I'll spend an hour adding someone's pix to the
gallery -- in 5 minute increments, spread over half a day. For me to
actually remember doing this a week or a month later is difficult. Then for
me to then remember to post an update HERE a week or a month later is almost
impossible to imagine.

This was the reason for the frequent updates -- I simply didn't want to
forget someone's addition.

Now, true, I can do like Sydney (and others) have suggested, and paste the
person's name, etc., into a text file, for future updates. But that just
adds one more level of complexity I really don't need to an endeavor that
nets me nothing but ever-diminishing personal satisfaction.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:54:56 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> > wrote:
>
> >> Because, while it's easy, it wouldn't solve what some see
> >> as the problem.
> >>
> >> Hope this helps clarify the issues for some,
> >
> >Yes, it does. Thanks, Sydney.
>
> As far as I'm concerned there is nothing wrong with posting non
> commercial items on a commercial site.
>
> I have my own dot come, but as I have nothing to sell, no adds, and
> only personal *stuff* or local EAA chapter *stuff*, it's a non
> commercial dot com.
>
> However to those commercial sites that host charitable, or non
> commercial adventures without adds there should be no problem.
>
> >
> >Although (as always happens when an uproar like this starts rolling
along)
> >I've now got a back-log of photos and bios from eager contributors to
upload
> >to the Gallery, I will try to keep their announcements to a minimum.
> >
> >It's a real shame that this site -- created solely for users of this
> >forum -- is being painted with the same brush as commercial sites, but I
>
> I have difficulty seeing how it could be painted that way by any one
> who looks at it.
>
> Many commercial sites host user sites and although the users are non
> commercial, the site is under the commercial sites dot com.
>
> We have several here. Some put adds on the users sites as part of the
> TOS even though they are non commercial ventures.
>
> >*do* see your point. It's a slippery slope from announcing the Rogue's
> >Gallery additions to allowing other sites with more tangential (I.E.:
>
> As long as there is a distinction between the commercial part of the
> site and the gallery there should be no slippery slope.
>
> >commercial) connections -- and then all we'll have here is a newsgroups
full
> >of commercial announcements. I, too, have seen this happen to other
> >newsgroups, and it destroys the group.
>
> I see a large distinction between a commercial site hosting a non
> commercial venture and those of a commercial nature.
>
> >
> >Please be aware, all, that I created the Rogue's Gallery with the best of
> >intentions.
>
> Jay, those of us who understand, need no explanation and those who
> don't, never will no matter how much explanation you give.
>
> Some probably would find fault even if it were a completely non
> commercial site, just due to the repetition.
>
> For the sensitive types, you could just make a weekly announcement
> although for them monthly would probably be too much.
>
>
> I take care of four sites (all non commercial) and keeping them
> up-to-date takes quite a few hours. Plus on my own I get to practice
> new programs and techniques. For me, the programming is more play.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>

[Cy Galley]

The part that bothers me the most is NO ONE complained about the multitude
of messages when Jay compiled the museum list with his signature on the
bottom of each. But publish member's pictures and bitter complaints just
poured in. The shear number of the mean spirited comments was overwhelming
and dis-heartening for this caring for flyers program.

I thought we had a band of brothers all supporting and sharing our love of
the skies. How else can we get into the skies except with our planes? I was
surprised by the original instigator that told me at Oshkosh that he ignored
any thread after about 4 messages as it was then it went off topic. Yet the
discussion has gone over 100 messages.

No one complains about the excessive XXXZoomerXXX messages which should have
been dropped by BOTH sides many years ago. They make good reading but do
little to promote aviation.

Is there a bunch of RAHer's than are jealous that some members do more than
just fly? That they have a way to support their passion?

I suppose that my signature is out of place as well as I ask for articles to
publish in the Safety Section of the Experimenter.

By the way, I'd be tickled pink that no one used the Emergency Aircraft
Repair facilities at Oshkosh. But just like the motel, it is there when you
need it.

--
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
or

Always looking for articles for the Experimenter soon to be Sport Pilot


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:cJuQb.137501$I06.1228700@attbi_s01...
> > Although I understand the enthusiasm, "were it me" and it's not, I'd
> > just make a weekly announcement of updates. Besides, it's less
> > work<:-)).
>
> Thanks for the support, Roger. I was truly taken aback by the ferocity of
> the opposition to the Rogue's Gallery announcements.
>
> My problem is that my days are incredibly disjointed, yet filled to
> over-flowing. As a result, I'll spend an hour adding someone's pix to the
> gallery -- in 5 minute increments, spread over half a day. For me to
> actually remember doing this a week or a month later is difficult. Then
for
> me to then remember to post an update HERE a week or a month later is
almost
> impossible to imagine.
>
> This was the reason for the frequent updates -- I simply didn't want to
> forget someone's addition.
>
> Now, true, I can do like Sydney (and others) have suggested, and paste the
> person's name, etc., into a text file, for future updates. But that just
> adds one more level of complexity I really don't need to an endeavor that
> nets me nothing but ever-diminishing personal satisfaction.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
> "Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:54:56 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >> Because, while it's easy, it wouldn't solve what some see
> > >> as the problem.
> > >>
> > >> Hope this helps clarify the issues for some,
> > >
> > >Yes, it does. Thanks, Sydney.
> >
> > As far as I'm concerned there is nothing wrong with posting non
> > commercial items on a commercial site.
> >
> > I have my own dot come, but as I have nothing to sell, no adds, and
> > only personal *stuff* or local EAA chapter *stuff*, it's a non
> > commercial dot com.
> >
> > However to those commercial sites that host charitable, or non
> > commercial adventures without adds there should be no problem.
> >
> > >
> > >Although (as always happens when an uproar like this starts rolling
> along)
> > >I've now got a back-log of photos and bios from eager contributors to
> upload
> > >to the Gallery, I will try to keep their announcements to a minimum.
> > >
> > >It's a real shame that this site -- created solely for users of this
> > >forum -- is being painted with the same brush as commercial sites, but
I
> >
> > I have difficulty seeing how it could be painted that way by any one
> > who looks at it.
> >
> > Many commercial sites host user sites and although the users are non
> > commercial, the site is under the commercial sites dot com.
> >
> > We have several here. Some put adds on the users sites as part of the
> > TOS even though they are non commercial ventures.
> >
> > >*do* see your point. It's a slippery slope from announcing the
Rogue's
> > >Gallery additions to allowing other sites with more tangential (I.E.:
> >
> > As long as there is a distinction between the commercial part of the
> > site and the gallery there should be no slippery slope.
> >
> > >commercial) connections -- and then all we'll have here is a newsgroups
> full
> > >of commercial announcements. I, too, have seen this happen to other
> > >newsgroups, and it destroys the group.
> >
> > I see a large distinction between a commercial site hosting a non
> > commercial venture and those of a commercial nature.
> >
> > >
> > >Please be aware, all, that I created the Rogue's Gallery with the best
of
> > >intentions.
> >
> > Jay, those of us who understand, need no explanation and those who
> > don't, never will no matter how much explanation you give.
> >
> > Some probably would find fault even if it were a completely non
> > commercial site, just due to the repetition.
> >
> > For the sensitive types, you could just make a weekly announcement
> > although for them monthly would probably be too much.
> >
> >
> > I take care of four sites (all non commercial) and keeping them
> > up-to-date takes quite a few hours. Plus on my own I get to practice
> > new programs and techniques. For me, the programming is more play.
> >
> > Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> > (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> > www.rogerhalstead.com
> >
> >
>
>

[Martin Hotze]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:02:41 GMT, Cy Galley wrote:

>The part that bothers me the most is NO ONE complained about the multitude
>of messages when Jay compiled the museum list with his signature on the
>bottom of each.

A signature is - by default - never a problem if correctly seperated and
trimmed to 4 lines.

your signature is not correctly seperated (abnd you are top posting and not
trimming the text to only what you are referring to).

#m

--
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990509

[Badwater Bill]

>
>Please be aware, all, that I created the Rogue's Gallery with the best of
>intentions.


That's obvious Jay. These assholes just have to have something to
bitch about. If it weren't you, it would be somebody else.

BWB

[Badwater Bill]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:02:41 GMT, "Cy Galley" >
wrote:

>The part that bothers me the most is NO ONE complained about the multitude
>of messages when Jay compiled the museum list with his signature on the
>bottom of each. But publish member's pictures and bitter complaints just
>poured in. The shear number of the mean spirited comments was overwhelming
>and dis-heartening for this caring for flyers program.
>
>I thought we had a band of brothers all supporting and sharing our love of
>the skies. How else can we get into the skies except with our planes? I was
>surprised by the original instigator that told me at Oshkosh that he ignored
>any thread after about 4 messages as it was then it went off topic. Yet the
>discussion has gone over 100 messages.
>
>No one complains about the excessive XXXZoomerXXX messages which should have
>been dropped by BOTH sides many years ago. They make good reading but do
>little to promote aviation.

How about NOTHING to promote aviation?

>
>Is there a bunch of RAHer's than are jealous that some members do more than
>just fly? That they have a way to support their passion?


Yep. Green with jealousy Cy. Your comments are right on line. What
your mistake is that you assumed a "band of brothers" here. Far from
it. More like a "band of backstabbers." They have nothing else to
talk about because the average poster here is not building, they are
not flying, they are not experimenting, they don't even know how to
build anything. In fact, most of them don't even know how to FLY!

I'll bet we could take a poll here (if it could be done honestly) and
you'd find that 1% are professional pilots, 5% fly regularly and maybe
another 5% are students or have taken a lesson at some time. The rest
are just hanger's oners, wantabes. Now, that ain't all bad. There
are some good folks who read this stuff who just are facinated by
airplanes. But, understand what you are dealing with.

BWB

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:cJuQb.137501$I06.1228700@attbi_s01...
> > Although I understand the enthusiasm, "were it me" and it's not, I'd
> > just make a weekly announcement of updates. Besides, it's less
> > work<:-)).
>
> Thanks for the support, Roger. I was truly taken aback by the ferocity of
> the opposition to the Rogue's Gallery announcements.
>
> My problem is that my days are incredibly disjointed, yet filled to
> over-flowing. As a result, I'll spend an hour adding someone's pix to the
> gallery -- in 5 minute increments, spread over half a day. For me to
> actually remember doing this a week or a month later is difficult. Then
for
> me to then remember to post an update HERE a week or a month later is
almost
> impossible to imagine.
>
> This was the reason for the frequent updates -- I simply didn't want to
> forget someone's addition.
>
> Now, true, I can do like Sydney (and others) have suggested, and paste the
> person's name, etc., into a text file, for future updates. But that just
> adds one more level of complexity I really don't need to an endeavor that
> nets me nothing but ever-diminishing personal satisfaction.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

NEVER, EVER stress out someone who does things voluntarily and out of a
great sense of benevolence.

Jay, you're a great example, come to life, of the "Little Red Hen" of the
children's story. Don't let the rabble sway you.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Cy Galley" > wrote in message
news:lOvQb.142093$na.222696@attbi_s04...
> The part that bothers me the most is NO ONE complained about the multitude
> of messages when Jay compiled the museum list with his signature on the
> bottom of each. But publish member's pictures and bitter complaints just
> poured in. The shear number of the mean spirited comments was overwhelming
> and dis-heartening for this caring for flyers program.
>
> I thought we had a band of brothers all supporting and sharing our love
of
> the skies. How else can we get into the skies except with our planes? I
was
> surprised by the original instigator that told me at Oshkosh that he
ignored
> any thread after about 4 messages as it was then it went off topic. Yet
the
> discussion has gone over 100 messages.
>

We also have a lot of ENVY within the "group".

[Newps]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>Although I understand the enthusiasm, "were it me" and it's not, I'd
>>just make a weekly announcement of updates. Besides, it's less
>>work<:-)).
>
>
> Thanks for the support, Roger. I was truly taken aback by the ferocity of
> the opposition to the Rogue's Gallery announcements.

Screw 'em. Half the fun is watching them foam at the mouth. You should
reply to them with an update.

[Martin Hotze]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:14:52 GMT, Newps wrote:

>From: Newps >
^^^^^^^^^^^^

>Screw 'em. Half the fun is watching them foam at the mouth. You should
>reply to them with an update.

said by someone who is stealing somebody else's domain and bringing the
real owner trouble (and costs!) with that.


*sigh*

#m

all the useless crossposting removed.

--
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990509

[Badwater Bill]

>
>NEVER, EVER stress out someone who does things voluntarily and out of a
>great sense of benevolence.

That's very well put. Nice comment. Jay does a fine job. He can
post it here ten times a day if he's got the energy to do it. Why not.

BWB



>
>Jay, you're a great example, come to life, of the "Little Red Hen" of the
>children's story. Don't let the rabble sway you.
>
>
>
>
>
>

[VideoGuy]

"Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
...

> I'll bet we could take a poll here (if it could be done honestly) and
> you'd find that 1% are professional pilots, 5% fly regularly and maybe
> another 5% are students or have taken a lesson at some time. The rest
> are just hanger's oners, wantabes. Now, that ain't all bad. There
> are some good folks who read this stuff who just are facinated by
> airplanes. But, understand what you are dealing with.
>
> BWB
>
Am we to conclude from your above snipped comments that you feel those who
are not building, or owning or piloting really shouldn't be here?

You say, "The rest are just hanger's oners, wantabes. Now, that ain't all
bad.."

What part IS bad about those of us, who for whatever reason, have yet to
achieve our goals of building, or owning, or piloting still reading and
posting a question or comment? Is this group so exclusive that the
uninitiated are unwelcome?

In my case, I've waited 35 years to be in a position to start my lessons.
This fact has not diminished my interest in aviation related NGs. Should
all of us "wantabes" feel obligated to remain on the outside? Maybe you'd
prefer a NG with certificate numbers as the requirement to log in!

If I sound somewhat offended by your remarks, you are reading me correctly.

Gary (thinking of starting the rec.aviation.wantabe group) Kasten

[Badwater Bill]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:13:48 -0600, "VideoGuy" <gkasten at brick dot
net> wrote:

>
>"Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
...
>
>> I'll bet we could take a poll here (if it could be done honestly) and
>> you'd find that 1% are professional pilots, 5% fly regularly and maybe
>> another 5% are students or have taken a lesson at some time. The rest
>> are just hanger's oners, wantabes. Now, that ain't all bad. There
>> are some good folks who read this stuff who just are facinated by
>> airplanes. But, understand what you are dealing with.
>>
>> BWB
>>
>Am we to conclude from your above snipped comments that you feel those who
>are not building, or owning or piloting really shouldn't be here?
>
>You say, "The rest are just hanger's oners, wantabes. Now, that ain't all
>bad.."
>
>What part IS bad about those of us, who for whatever reason, have yet to
>achieve our goals of building, or owning, or piloting still reading and
>posting a question or comment? Is this group so exclusive that the
>uninitiated are unwelcome?
>
>In my case, I've waited 35 years to be in a position to start my lessons.
>This fact has not diminished my interest in aviation related NGs. Should
>all of us "wantabes" feel obligated to remain on the outside? Maybe you'd
>prefer a NG with certificate numbers as the requirement to log in!
>
>If I sound somewhat offended by your remarks, you are reading me correctly.
>
>Gary (thinking of starting the rec.aviation.wantabe group) Kasten

I offend everybody, not just you. Don't feel unique. I don't express
myself well as I get older. I have little time for novices in any
field where I've spent a lifetime becoming an expert. But, that's
just me. I'm not saying that I'm right. I just have a zero
tolerances level for people who don't know how to fly, don't know how
to build, don't know what they want.

But then I was always lucky. I started flying in 1957 because I knew
I was destined to do so. I knew I wanted to be a physicist when I was
in the 7th grade. In the Universities I never could understand why
there were people running around wasting lots of mommy and daddy's
money who knew nothing about what they wanted to become or what they
wanted out of life. It was alien to me.

As a young CFI 35 years ago I enjoyed teaching people what an aileron
is and what it does. I just got tired somewhere along the way with
the people who wouldn't try to put forth their best efforts on their
own to learn and become the best that they could be.

I don't accept your excuse for waiting 35 years to do something you
wanted to do all of your life. I feel sorry for you. I feel that you
have been a lost soul for some reason. I would have killed to fly. I
had no choice. I had no choice in becoming a nuclear physicist
either. I was born knowing how to factor a quadratic equation.

So, I was luckier than most, I'm sorry. I guess it was always easier
for me since I knew EXACTLY what I wanted out of life. To this day I
have no time because I want so much, and I'm getting old. Now that
****es me off. But, I oil paint each day. I fly my helicopter, I fly
my airplanes, I fly my RC airplanes and helicopters as much as I can.
I fly my Snobird gyroplane. I go snow skiing as much as I can. I
have a Kawasaki Ninja ZX-11 that goes 200 mph and a new 2004 Corvette
that I drive like I just stole them...dirtbikes, ATV's a
snowmobiles... The list makes me nauseous. I can't possibly even get
to it all.

There is no rest for the unholy.

I don't even have time to come in here and post much anymore which I
like to do just to torque off all the anonymous cowards.

But I am burned out on telling people what an aileron is and how it
works. I've done that a lot in my life. Maybe the old coots like me
should forever leave this ng and let you people who don't fly and
don't build have it. Then you won't be insulted when we cringe when a
mature adult askes a question that we first answered in the 1950's.

BWB

[VideoGuy]

"Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
...
> But I am burned out on telling people what an aileron is and how it
> works. I've done that a lot in my life. Maybe the old coots like me
> should forever leave this ng and let you people who don't fly and
> don't build have it. Then you won't be insulted when we cringe when a
> mature adult askes a question that we first answered in the 1950's.
>
> BWB

Bob,

Maybe you wouldn't be so tired of the same old questions if you if you
viewed them as questions from NEW people eager to learn, regardless of their
"status". For whatever reasons, ( I suspect mostly monetary) many people
have needed to defer realization of a dream. We don't ask for your pity.

As far as leaving the newsgroup goes... Well, I guess if your attitude has
deteriorated to the point that you feel you have nothing worth adding, then
maybe you have the right idea. Personally, I'd hate to think that anyone
who has as much experience in aviation as you would ever be at a point where
they would have nothing worth adding. But obviously, you would have to be
the judge on that.

Gary (still waiting- but sneaking up on the goal) Kasten

[Jerry Springer]

VideoGuy wrote:

> "Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>But I am burned out on telling people what an aileron is and how it
>>works. I've done that a lot in my life. Maybe the old coots like me
>>should forever leave this ng and let you people who don't fly and
>>don't build have it. Then you won't be insulted when we cringe when a
>>mature adult askes a question that we first answered in the 1950's.
>>
>>BWB


Think maybe Badwater "Bill" might give a clue as to what his name is? :-)

>
> Bob,
>
> Maybe you wouldn't be so tired of the same old questions if you if you
> viewed them as questions from NEW people eager to learn, regardless of their
> "status". For whatever reasons, ( I suspect mostly monetary) many people
> have needed to defer realization of a dream. We don't ask for your pity.
>
> As far as leaving the newsgroup goes... Well, I guess if your attitude has
> deteriorated to the point that you feel you have nothing worth adding, then
> maybe you have the right idea. Personally, I'd hate to think that anyone
> who has as much experience in aviation as you would ever be at a point where
> they would have nothing worth adding. But obviously, you would have to be
> the judge on that.
>
> Gary (still waiting- but sneaking up on the goal) Kasten
>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> Think maybe Badwater "Bill" might give a clue as to what his name is? :-)

He's been known by that nickname on and off the net for at least ten years. It
might as well *be* his born name.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Jerry Springer]

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

>
> Jerry Springer wrote:
>
>>Think maybe Badwater "Bill" might give a clue as to what his name is? :-)
>
>
> He's been known by that nickname on and off the net for at least ten years. It
> might as well *be* his born name.
>
> George Patterson
>

I was talking about VideoGuy calling him "Bob". I know who BWB is I've parked my
RV-6 next to his at flyins.

Jerry

[Jay Honeck]

> >>Think maybe Badwater "Bill" might give a clue as to what his name is?
:-)
> >
> > He's been known by that nickname on and off the net for at least ten
years. It
> > might as well *be* his born name.

This may go against my new promise not to "over-announce" new additions, but
"Badwater Bill" has just forwarded me a whole bunch of awesome photos for
his new section in the Rogue's Gallery!

I say "new section" because I could practically build a new webpage around
his stuff! This guy (and, after I told him our policy about not allowing
pseudonyms in the Gallery, he has allowed me to use his real name -- which
is Bill Phillips) has flown more, and flown more different aircraft, than
all of us put together! You'll be as amazed as me when you see them all...

I'm going to try to get caught up on the new Rogue's Gallery additions
tomorrow.

Remember, though, there won't be an announcement about it! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[VideoGuy]

Err... Sorry Bill, or is it MR. Phillips?

Gary


"Jerry Springer" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
>
> G.R. Patterson III wrote:
>
> >
> > Jerry Springer wrote:
> >
> >>Think maybe Badwater "Bill" might give a clue as to what his name is?
:-)
> >
> >
> > He's been known by that nickname on and off the net for at least ten
years. It
> > might as well *be* his born name.
> >
> > George Patterson
> >
>
> I was talking about VideoGuy calling him "Bob". I know who BWB is I've
parked my
> RV-6 next to his at flyins.
>
> Jerry
>

[Badwater Bill]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:54:16 -0600, "VideoGuy" <gkasten at brick dot
net> wrote:

>Err... Sorry Bill, or is it MR. Phillips?
>
>Gary

It's Dr. Phillips, but I don't use that at all. I prefer Badwater
Bill as I have used it here for nearly 10 years. The Dr. bull **** is
for when I lecture at universities or in Europe. They're big on
titles in both of those places.

I can't believe all the new people that must be in here. I go away
for a year or so and everybody forgets me.

I'll make a bigger impact this time.

How's that?

BWB

[Badwater Bill]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:46:29 GMT, Jerry Springer
> wrote:

>
>
>VideoGuy wrote:
>
>> "Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>But I am burned out on telling people what an aileron is and how it
>>>works. I've done that a lot in my life. Maybe the old coots like me
>>>should forever leave this ng and let you people who don't fly and
>>>don't build have it. Then you won't be insulted when we cringe when a
>>>mature adult askes a question that we first answered in the 1950's.
>>>
>>>BWB
>
>
>Think maybe Badwater "Bill" might give a clue as to what his name is? :-)
>
>>

Why, it must be BOB!

Ha Ha

BWB

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> I was talking about VideoGuy calling him "Bob". I know who BWB is I've parked my
> RV-6 next to his at flyins.

Ah .. Sorry. I thought you were one of the people accusing him of hiding behind
an anonymous login. My mistake.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[G.R. Patterson III]

Badwater Bill wrote:
>
> I'll make a bigger impact this time.
>
> How's that?

Good God no!!!

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Badwater Bill]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:06:15 -0600, "VideoGuy" <gkasten at brick dot
net> wrote:

>
>"Badwater Bill" > wrote in message
...
>> But I am burned out on telling people what an aileron is and how it
>> works. I've done that a lot in my life. Maybe the old coots like me
>> should forever leave this ng and let you people who don't fly and
>> don't build have it. Then you won't be insulted when we cringe when a
>> mature adult askes a question that we first answered in the 1950's.
>>
>> BWB
>
>Bob,
>
>Maybe you wouldn't be so tired of the same old questions if you if you
>viewed them as questions from NEW people eager to learn, regardless of their
>"status". For whatever reasons, ( I suspect mostly monetary) many people
>have needed to defer realization of a dream. We don't ask for your pity.
>
>As far as leaving the newsgroup goes... Well, I guess if your attitude has
>deteriorated to the point that you feel you have nothing worth adding, then
>maybe you have the right idea.

I just did for about a year. The morons wore me down as they will
again.

> Personally, I'd hate to think that anyone
>who has as much experience in aviation as you would ever be at a point where
>they would have nothing worth adding.

Oh, it's not that, it's that the boneheads wear you down. If someone
is legitimate and has a real question, I don't mind chiming in. It's
just that there is little of that here. You might have caught my post
on how to paint that fabric somewhere today. That guy was legitimate.
If that were what this ng was mostly about many of those with vast
experience who left long ago would still be here because they too
might pick up a simple technique to help them.

The trouble is, you have to wade through a vast sea of crap. It
reminds me of a million square mile ocean that is only 3 inches deep.
When you find a cavity that is a foot deep, you think you've hit pay
dirt.

I only post here nowadays for my own entertainment, not to learn
anything. The transfer of knowledge has always been mostly one way
for me. And, that's too bad too because there are people who are
really interested and who really are worthy of helping. You, might be
one of them. It's just that the assholes get in the way of that.

I had an ATP in my 30's and seven flight instructor ratings. Now I
have about 10,000 hours in balloons, helicopters, gliders,
ultralights, hang gliders, airplanes and gyros, plus a Ph.D. in
physics. When some anonymous coward insults me as I try to post here
and convey some meaning to a sea of mediocrity, it just gets to the
point that it ain't worth it.

I burned out on this ng long ago and I'll leave again, soon. Probably
tomorrow. I'm just stuck inside today because it's too cold to go
outside and fly anything that's fun. I wanted to fly my new electric
hummingbird helicopter today but it's just too damn cold to go to the
park. So, all of you had to put up with me. Ha Ha

I liked that guy Jay's website. That was fun to see. I sent him a
bunch of the airplanes I've been fortunate enough to fly in my life.
There is one picture I really like of my Jantar 15 meter sailplane. I
forgot to send him one of my Lark while I was on a pressure breath
system at 30,000 feet. I'll try and find that baby and get it to him.
I held a camera in front of me in the cockpit. The insides of the
canopy were frozen over with moisture from my breath. I was flying on
an electric gyro with a special clearance into class A airspace that
day. I was still going up at 2000 feet per minute in wave lift when I
had to abort because the damn wind would freeze over as fast as I
could clear it with the back of my glove (on my hand). Damn, I wish I
could find that one.



BWB




>But obviously, you would have to be
>the judge on that.
>
>Gary (still waiting- but sneaking up on the goal) Kasten
>

[Morgans]

"Badwater Bill" > wrote

> I can't believe all the new people that must be in here. I go away
> for a year or so and everybody forgets me.
>
> I'll make a bigger impact this time.
>
> How's that?
>
> BWB
>
O H N O ! ! ! !

Does that mean you are going to quit taking your rat poison, and REALLY go
off on some one? :-o

Just as long as it isn't me! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Badwater Bill" > wrote
snip
> Oh, it's not that, it's that the boneheads wear you down. If someone
> is legitimate and has a real question, I don't mind chiming in. It's
> just that there is little of that here. You might have caught my post
> on how to paint that fabric somewhere today. That guy was legitimate.
> If that were what this ng was mostly about many of those with vast
> experience who left long ago would still be here because they too
> might pick up a simple technique to help them.
>
> The trouble is, you have to wade through a vast sea of crap. It
> reminds me of a million square mile ocean that is only 3 inches deep.
> When you find a cavity that is a foot deep, you think you've hit pay
> dirt.
>
> I only post here nowadays for my own entertainment, not to learn
> anything. The transfer of knowledge has always been mostly one way
> for me. And, that's too bad too because there are people who are
> really interested and who really are worthy of helping. You, might be
> one of them. It's just that the assholes get in the way of that.

I, for one, am glad that all of the people with the knowledge have not left.
I have learned a tremendous amount here.

I am like a sponge, when it comes to aviation. I read everything I can get
my hands on. I am waiting to get to the point to be able to pass a
medical. It may not happen, but I am getting ready, anyway. Dreams keep me
alive. If I didn't have them, I would be tempted to cash it all in, because
of my pain.

One day I will fly, somehow. I will also fly something I built, with my own
hands. I can think of nothing that will give me more satisfaction.

I also get frustrated by the crap. Sometimes I just stay out of the fray.
I make good use of kill files, and am not afraid to use the "mark
conversation read" button. It still is worthwhile to me, and I enjoy the
off topic jabs and jokes that take place here, like with me and BOb.
Without you, and others like you, I would stop learning, and it would not
be worth it.

Just stay on your rat poison. Sometimes, *you* cross the useless line, and
get marked a "read". <g>

That's my two cents worth. I rarely have something to add, but when I do, I
pitch in. I am glad that others still do the same.

As far as you leaving, you gotta do what you gotta do. Everyone still has
the freedom of choice, here. That is also what I think about this thread.
Everyone should do what they want to do.
--
Jim in NC

[Mark Mallory]

Morgans wrote:
>
> O H N O ! ! ! !
>
> Does that mean you are going to quit taking your rat poison, and REALLY go
> off on some one? :-o

You mean ANT poison. All rat poison does for BWB is make him thirsty...

[Morgans]

"Mark Mallory" > wrote in message
...
>
> Morgans wrote:
> >
> > O H N O ! ! ! !
> >
> > Does that mean you are going to quit taking your rat poison, and REALLY
go
> > off on some one? :-o
>
> You mean ANT poison. All rat poison does for BWB is make him thirsty...
>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MAJOR chuckle <g>

True
--
Jim in NC

[Martin Hotze]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 04:16:24 GMT, Badwater Bill wrote:

>The Dr. bull **** is
>for when I lecture at universities or in Europe. They're big on
>titles in both of those places.

yeah. we're also into attitude.
From your last 10 or so posts I read everything but good attitude, but this
is only me.

>I'll make a bigger impact this time.

you already did your best.

#m

--
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990509

[Margy Natalie]

Dear Jerry,

Jay is NOT posting the same thing over and over again. He is posting when there is
an addition to the gallery that he is spending his time and money to produce for OUR
enjoyment. Jay can be a bit much at times, but he does contribute to this news
group in a very valuable way and has been here for a long time. He has the insanity
to run a business that most of us here find unique and fun. Some of us have even
gone to the hotel, but be assured if Jay thought for a second that the rec. groups
would send him a lot of business he would be out of business real soon. Jay does
host a wonderful party at his plane at OSH so the rec. crowd can get together .
What have you done?

Margy

Jerry Springer wrote:

> You are the moron that seem to have a reading problem, now go play with yourself
> somewhere else. It is spam to post the same thing over and over in a newsgroup.
> think how cluttered the NG would be if everyone that had a web site posted
> everytime something was added to it. We all know Jay has a section dedicated to
> aircraft pictures so maybe once a week he should just post his URL insteead of
> each time someone adds to it.
> BTW my mother has been dead for two years. Now as I said go F yourself somewhere
> else.
>
> Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> > "Jerry Springer" > wrote in message
> > link.net...
> >
> >>YES sir mister sixkiller now go F yourself. I got your poinit the first
> >
> > time.
> >
> >>My second post was a correction to where I said "RON" instead of "ED" as
> >
> > Ed was
> >
> >>the orginal poster. NOW why don't you "READ VERY CLOSELY?"
> >
> >
> > Read it again: The point I was making was the reference to SPAM...you're use
> > of the wrong name was immaterial.
> >
> > Considering your propensity for grammatical and other mistakes, I won't make
> > the point of your incredible lack of reading, comprehension, and other
> > skills.
> >
> >
> > Why don't you go away...your mothers calling you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

[Margy Natalie]

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

> "Jerry Springer" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > You are the moron that seem to have a reading problem, now go play with
> yourself
> > somewhere else. It is spam to post the same thing over and over in a
> newsgroup.
> > think how cluttered the NG would be if everyone that had a web site posted
> > everytime something was added to it. We all know Jay has a section
> dedicated to
> > aircraft pictures so maybe once a week he should just post his URL
> insteead of
> > each time someone adds to it.
> > BTW my mother has been dead for two years. Now as I said go F yourself
> somewhere
> > else.
>
> Geezzz..retarded AND a loud mouth!!!

You shouldn't insult an entire group of cognitively impaired folks by implying
Jerry is in that group.

Margy

>
>
> [Cannonball PLONK!!]

[Margy Natalie]

Bob Noel wrote:

> >
> > Yahoo weather shows a high of 17 F and low of 5 F in Iowa City.
> > Gentle ribbing, thanks for the Gallery :-)
>
> hey, that's warmer than Boston has been seeing recently!

My daughter reported that Spirit's last afternoon temp. reading from Mars was
higher than that afternoons reading at State College, PA. She was not a
happy camper.

Margy

[Snowbird]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<cJuQb.137501$I06.1228700@attbi_s01>...
> Thanks for the support, Roger. I was truly taken aback by the ferocity of
> the opposition to the Rogue's Gallery announcements.

Meaning no offense Jay, but
=> if you think you drew ferocity on the NG scale of things, perhaps
you need to recalibrate? I could provide you with some examples *g*
but if you were truly taken aback, and would like to "get it" I'll
explain; you came across as thumbing your nose at folks and newsgroup
traditions, which is fine for someone whose goal in posting is
apparently to be as obnoxious as possible -- but puzzling in someone
who is trying to run a hospitality business targeted at pilots, and
whose goals in posting appear to be to share his love of flying and
to build goodwill for his business.

And it tends to draw a hostile response. Hope this helps.

> My problem is that my days are incredibly disjointed, yet filled to
> over-flowing. As a result, I'll spend an hour adding someone's pix to the
> gallery -- in 5 minute increments, spread over half a day. For me to
> actually remember doing this a week or a month later is difficult.

Why do you need to remember for 10 minutes, let alone a week or a month?
Just type a line into a text file after you do each addition.

> Now, true, I can do like Sydney (and others) have suggested, and paste the
> person's name, etc., into a text file, for future updates. But that just
> adds one more level of complexity I really don't need to an endeavor that
> nets me nothing but ever-diminishing personal satisfaction.

I'm sorry you find the personal satisfaction diminishing -- perhaps
something could be done to share the work between several people,
or to set up a site where people could upload their own stuff. Just
thoughts (obviously I'm unreconstructed at my attempts to solve problems)

But as for complexity, this is the part some of us just don't get.
You're typing text into a file. When you're done, you either click
"post message" or "save as file". How does it add complexity to
click one and not the other? Seems very odd.

Cheers,
Sydney

[Jerry Springer]

Margy Natalie wrote:
> Dear Jerry,
>
> Jay is NOT posting the same thing over and over again. He is posting when there is
> an addition to the gallery that he is spending his time and money to produce for OUR
> enjoyment. Jay can be a bit much at times, but he does contribute to this news
> group in a very valuable way and has been here for a long time. He has the insanity
> to run a business that most of us here find unique and fun. Some of us have even
> gone to the hotel, but be assured if Jay thought for a second that the rec. groups
> would send him a lot of business he would be out of business real soon. Jay does
> host a wonderful party at his plane at OSH so the rec. crowd can get together .
> What have you done?
>
> Margy
>

First I have been in RAH longer than you or Jay or even BWB, but I do not
believe that time in a NG has anything to do with common courtesy when posting
over and over again. I realize this is going to the RAP and RAO NG also but you
and others insist on crossposting so be it. Despite what I say, or you or anyone
else thinks of me, there have been some very respectable contributors to the NGs
suggest way to post the notifications in an orderly manner and it seems Jay is
to lazy to take those suggestion to heart.

Let me see what have I done? Well I have built and made first flights on four
airplanes and first flights on several other peoples projects. I have taught and
helped at least 50 people get their PP certificates as well as commercial
certificates and some have even gone on to be instructors and to make a living
from aviation as commercial pilots. I served in Vietnam
among some other places in the world. NOW WHAT is it that you have done Margy?

Waiting for your answer,

Jerry

[Jay Honeck]

> Waiting for your answer,

Jerry, I *think* Margy wanted to know what you've done for the newsgroup --
not in life.

And be careful -- her list of life achievements is pretty formidable, too.

She is a special ed teacher (which gets her half-way to sainthood by itself)
AND works at the National Air & Space Museum.

And she owns and flies a Navion.

AND she's married to Ron -- which gets her the rest of the way to
sainthood... ;-)

Shall I continue? :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jerry Springer]

I know who she is married to and I commend her for being a special ed teacher,
that takes a special kind of person.

Jerry


Jay Honeck wrote:

>>Waiting for your answer,
>
>
> Jerry, I *think* Margy wanted to know what you've done for the newsgroup --
> not in life.
>
> And be careful -- her list of life achievements is pretty formidable, too.
>
> She is a special ed teacher (which gets her half-way to sainthood by itself)
> AND works at the National Air & Space Museum.
>
> And she owns and flies a Navion.
>
> AND she's married to Ron -- which gets her the rest of the way to
> sainthood... ;-)
>
> Shall I continue? :-)

[Margy Natalie]

Jerry Springer wrote:

> Margy Natalie wrote:
> > Dear Jerry,
> >
> > Jay is NOT posting the same thing over and over again. He is posting when there is
> > an addition to the gallery that he is spending his time and money to produce for OUR
> > enjoyment. Jay can be a bit much at times, but he does contribute to this news
> > group in a very valuable way and has been here for a long time. He has the insanity
> > to run a business that most of us here find unique and fun. Some of us have even
> > gone to the hotel, but be assured if Jay thought for a second that the rec. groups
> > would send him a lot of business he would be out of business real soon. Jay does
> > host a wonderful party at his plane at OSH so the rec. crowd can get together .
> > What have you done?
> >
> > Margy
> >
>
> First I have been in RAH longer than you or Jay or even BWB, but I do not
> believe that time in a NG has anything to do with common courtesy when posting
> over and over again. I realize this is going to the RAP and RAO NG also but you
> and others insist on crossposting so be it. Despite what I say, or you or anyone
> else thinks of me, there have been some very respectable contributors to the NGs
> suggest way to post the notifications in an orderly manner and it seems Jay is
> to lazy to take those suggestion to heart.
>
> Let me see what have I done? Well I have built and made first flights on four
> airplanes and first flights on several other peoples projects. I have taught and
> helped at least 50 people get their PP certificates as well as commercial
> certificates and some have even gone on to be instructors and to make a living
> from aviation as commercial pilots. I served in Vietnam
> among some other places in the world. NOW WHAT is it that you have done Margy?
>
> Waiting for your answer,
>
> Jerry

Dear Jerry,

I was speaking of the news groups, not life in general. What have you done for the Rec.
community. Jay is spending lots of time posting pics of newsgroup members. This group
is, in part, a social group. I don't recall you having done anything for members of this
group or even a subset of those members.

Margy

[Margy Natalie]

Or one who has checked her sanity at the door (and I won't tell you if that's
referring to Ron or being a sped teacher :-))

Jerry Springer wrote:

> I know who she is married to and I commend her for being a special ed teacher,
> that takes a special kind of person.
>
> Jerry
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> >>Waiting for your answer,
> >
> >
> > Jerry, I *think* Margy wanted to know what you've done for the newsgroup --
> > not in life.
> >
> > And be careful -- her list of life achievements is pretty formidable, too.
> >
> > She is a special ed teacher (which gets her half-way to sainthood by itself)
> > AND works at the National Air & Space Museum.
> >
> > And she owns and flies a Navion.
> >
> > AND she's married to Ron -- which gets her the rest of the way to
> > sainthood... ;-)
> >
> > Shall I continue? :-)

[Corky Scott]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:33:49 GMT, (Badwater
Bill) wrote:


>As a young CFI 35 years ago I enjoyed teaching people what an aileron
>is and what it does. I just got tired somewhere along the way with
>the people who wouldn't try to put forth their best efforts on their
>own to learn and become the best that they could be.
>
>I don't accept your excuse for waiting 35 years to do something you
>wanted to do all of your life. I feel sorry for you. I feel that you
>have been a lost soul for some reason. I would have killed to fly. I
>had no choice. I had no choice in becoming a nuclear physicist
>either. I was born knowing how to factor a quadratic equation.
>
>So, I was luckier than most, I'm sorry.

>BWB

There's no need to be sorry about good fortune but there is also no
need for you to trash everyone who hasn't done exactly what you did
either.

Everyone is different and as the Indian's used to say: "one man cannot
tell another man what to do."

You were obviously born with the smarts to accomplish what you wanted
to do, that's great. But some people put relationships and family
first, above flying. I'm too old to be a commercial pilot now, but
I'm not too old to follow through what I started as a kid and get my
license. Now that that's accomplished, the next goal is to finish the
airplane which I started 13 years ago. I cannot spend lots of money
on it because I don't have lots of money to spend. It's a plans built
type airplane because I could not afford the large outlay of cash
necessary to buy a kit upfront. Scrounging for parts and pieces is
interesting but slow. But I get enormous satisfaction in working on
the airplane. When it's finally done, I may go into withdraw with
nothing to do at night but hope for flying weather.

Frankly Bill you do not have to be here and I keep wondering what's
keeping you tethered. You hate this place, hate most of the guys here
and **** all over everyone routinely. Methinks thee doth protest too
much.

Corky Scott

[Badwater Bill]

>
>There's no need to be sorry about good fortune but there is also no
>need for you to trash everyone who hasn't done exactly what you did
>either.

I agree Corky. What I get ****ed off about is the lack of courtesy
that the know-nothings have. The bold and abrasive attacks and
challenges of the know-nothings, the people (unlike you) who really
don't want to learn anything, but just want to lie about what they
are, what they have done and who they are. This place deteriorates to
that level a lot although I haven't seen it in the last three days.

>
>Everyone is different and as the Indian's used to say: "one man cannot
>tell another man what to do."

Sure they can. You are just an introvert. The idiots need direction
or they wouldn't be hounding for it.

>
>You were obviously born with the smarts to accomplish what you wanted
>to do, that's great. But some people put relationships and family
>first, above flying.

I understand that.

> I'm too old to be a commercial pilot now, but
>I'm not too old to follow through what I started as a kid and get my
>license. Now that that's accomplished, the next goal is to finish the
>airplane which I started 13 years ago. I cannot spend lots of money
>on it because I don't have lots of money to spend. It's a plans built
>type airplane because I could not afford the large outlay of cash
>necessary to buy a kit upfront. Scrounging for parts and pieces is
>interesting but slow. But I get enormous satisfaction in working on
>the airplane. When it's finally done, I may go into withdraw with
>nothing to do at night but hope for flying weather.

Naaah. You'll find another project. I oil paint and draw a lot, and
build RC models. You'll do the same. You'll find something to use
your right lobe and keep busy when you retire from the library. That's
the way it is with people who are bright. They find a challenge no
matter what stage of life they are in.

I pray for boredom. I haven't had the opportunity to be bored since
childhood. What a luxury to be bored. I pray for the day when I can
once again be bored. I get up at 6 a.m. and I crank-ass all day
long. I try to take a nap,but seldomly get the chance unless I'm just
tired as hell and my body forces me to rest.

GOD! What it would be like to be bored for a couple hours. I have no
chance of looking forward to that in life. There is just too much out
there that I haven't done and want to do. Most of it requires a lot
of study too. I'll explain.

When I was teaching physics at the university, students would come to
my office and ask me how to solve a physics problem I had assigned as
homework. I usually found that they hadn't even tried the problem.
That's like what I see a lot of here on RAH. I would tell them to go
spend 8 hours on the problem and if they couldn't solve it, come back
and I would give them some guidance---I would not tell them that I
would give them the secret to the problem, only some guidance. They
rolled over and puked in my office and went away.

What I hated was someone who wanted to start at the top without paying
the proper dues. Wing-Ding is like that. He want's to have it all
without walking through the maze. I guess most people are like that,
they want degrees and titles and the cream, but pay no dues.

RAH is like that. What I see are people who want a free ride and
capitalize on the experience of all the old time masters like O'ring
and others who left long ago, but the newbees want to pay no dues.
The young people especially nowadays want instant gratification. They
don't want to work for anything. They figure they are worth $15
bucks/hr just because they breath air. If you expect them to do
anything, then that's extra.

I love to paint oil paintings. I'm not that good either. I guess I
like it because I am not that good. I have a LONG way to go before I
get to be what I consider an average artist. I have a friend who is a
master painter by anyone's opinion. Three years ago I went to him and
told him of my secret wish to become a good painter. He was a math
professor at UNLV when I was teaching physics there back in the early
1970's. So, he too is tired of students who "didn't try the problem"
before they came in wanting the secret to the proof. He is a great
mathematician with many published proofs and is well known in his
trade. He is also an accomplished artist with many shows and is worth
enough money that he doesn't have to work anymore. This is what he
said to me, a close friend and good buddy:

"Ah, Bill, so you really want to paint well eh? I would be happy to
help you. This is what you do so you can learn to be an artist. Get
yourself a sketching pad and some good pencils. Draw for an hour each
day for TEN years, the come back to me. I'll be happy to help you
then."

I have been drawing an hour each day now for three years (more, most
days). In seven years I'll go back to him and ask for his advice.

Now that I have drawn for three years, I understand why he said that.
The same thing goes for building airplanes. Go learn to fly at least,
then consider how to build an airplane. Or, go build something
substantial and then consider building an airplane. But, no matter
what you do, DO SOMETHING. Don't just come in swinging and asking
stupid questions like: I want to build an airplane that carries 4
people at 400 mph on 4 gallons/hr and has a service ceiling of 30,000
feet....oh, and I only want to spend $20 grand.

Then if an old boy like me nails the guy, you and all of the rest of
the people of RAH-land condemn me for my uncaring and abrasive
nature. Give me a break. Most of the people here are just not worth
the effort, that's the problem. It isn't a high quality array of
builders or pilots who post here. The most intimidating assholes here
are not pilots, not builders and also anonymous so you can't hunt them
down and kill them for their threats.

>
>Frankly Bill you do not have to be here and I keep wondering what's
>keeping you tethered. You hate this place, hate most of the guys here
>and **** all over everyone routinely.

You are right Corky. I don't belong here. John Stricker said that
years ago. "Just too much experience for this group Bill."

So, where would you recommend that I go? I like human interaction and
because I am alive I am social. What group do you feel I would fit
into?

There is an entire evolvement that goes on when you post to ng's that
I didn't know 8 years ago. I came in here as a test pilot on Jess
Meyer's RV-6A with the Chevy Engine in it and posted the results of my
flights almost daily. I enjoyed the feedback that I got. Then I
became addicted to the instant feedback. After that I loved just
writing stories here. But what happened next was something that
brought me back to reality.

The Mini-500 helicopter thing happened. I hated what I perceived
Fetters for doing and that was marketing a deathtrap. The builders
elected me as their President and Tony Pucillo was our lawyer. At
that point when real homebuilders were getting killed I got serious
here and on the rotorcraft group. I was very serious. Even Tony saw
a big change in my posts as I became more serious and worried about
the crashes and the fatalities. I did what I could as you all know to
curtail those crashes and help the builders. What that did to me here
is turn me from an entertaining sort of guy, to a man with a mission
to expose what the builders were seeing as inadequacies in that
Kit-helicotper.

So, I went from the jovial story writer to a serious guy to deal with.
I didn't want that, but I really had no choice. And, I do feel like I
saved a few lives. If I never do anything else in life to promote the
safety and well being of pilots everywhere, I feel that my efforts
concerning the Mini-500 were worth it.

What I would like now is to be left alone. I don't want confrontation
or conflict with anyone here. I'd like to post here from time to time
and just convey my thoughts on things, because I really don't know
where else to hang out if I decide to post on the Internet. I have
spent no time on the other groups and I don't know anyone there. RAH
is my depth on Usegroups.

It's like the OMABP. It's a place that all men can go, even to this
day and expect conflict and confrontation on a daily basis. For those
who don't know what the OMABP is, do a search.

Where else do you hang out if you like to talk with people? Maybe
they all don't have your level of professionalism or experience but
it's still a group of people. If you are social then I think you need
people. I'd like things to be different if they could, but I think
they can't. If you know something I don't Corky, then you tell me
where to hang out and I'll try it.

Just don't give me any crap and I won't give you any. That goes for
anyone here. I'm not looking for a fight, but you guys know that I
can end one if some dork picks it.


BWB



>
>Corky Scott

[Jay Honeck]

> So, where would you recommend that I go? I like human interaction and
> because I am alive I am social. What group do you feel I would fit
> into?

Bill, you've obviously been hanging out exclusively in RAH, cuz those of us
who live in RAP and RAO are unfamiliar with you and your brand of posting.
All I can say is this: You're welcome here. I, for one, find your
experiences and attitude refreshing -- although I can see how those with
thinner skins might be spooked.

From what I've read over in RAH lately, we in RAP and RAO aren't quite as
free-wheeling and off the cuff. Must be something to do with flying
"spam-cans" or something -- but do try to treat us with kid gloves for a
while, okay? :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[AL]

Jay, just tell me how to find your plane at OSH. I'm planning on being there
this year as a visitor instead of an exhibitor so I get to see the show. I,
too, would like to bow to the ground at Margie's feet.

--
Al Mills
Wake me before we take off...

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay, just tell me how to find your plane at OSH. I'm planning on being
there
> this year as a visitor instead of an exhibitor so I get to see the show.
I,
> too, would like to bow to the ground at Margie's feet.

Well, Al, the way we all did it last year was by using the EAA's computer
location system.

Just give my "N" number to the guys and gals in the booth at the entrance to
the North 40, and they'll tell you precisely where we're parked. Montblack
is going to be bringing some grills this year, so we can actually do a
cook-out, rather than trying to stumble off-site for food! (A real
challenge last year, considering how much beer was consumed...)

And, by the way -- it's MUCH easier to bow to Margy when she's dancing at
eye-level on Atlas' wing...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Bill, you've obviously been hanging out exclusively in RAH, cuz those of us
> who live in RAP and RAO are unfamiliar with you and your brand of posting.

Oh, he used to post in RAP back about ten years ago. Maybe a little more. Back
when Highflyer was still allowed to post under his real name.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Russell Kent]

Badwater Bill wrote:

> I'll make a bigger impact this time.

Been packin' on the weight, eh? ;-)

Was in Vegas last week; should've called (sorry).

Russell Kent

[Margy Natalie]

Bow at my feet?!!? I like it!!! Hopefully the Navion will be flying by OSH
(with new radios and everything!!) so we can do something down in the classic
area. If you volunteer for Vintage flight line ops I'll even help you into your
little orange vest!

Margy (stuck on earth, in the snow, wishing it was spring)

AL wrote:

> Jay, just tell me how to find your plane at OSH. I'm planning on being there
> this year as a visitor instead of an exhibitor so I get to see the show. I,
> too, would like to bow to the ground at Margie's feet.
>
> --
> Al Mills
> Wake me before we take off...

[Roger Halstead]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 04:16:24 GMT, (Badwater
Bill) wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:54:16 -0600, "VideoGuy" <gkasten at brick dot
>net> wrote:
>
>>Err... Sorry Bill, or is it MR. Phillips?
>>
>>Gary
>
>It's Dr. Phillips, but I don't use that at all. I prefer Badwater
>Bill as I have used it here for nearly 10 years. The Dr. bull **** is
>for when I lecture at universities or in Europe. They're big on
>titles in both of those places.
>
>I can't believe all the new people that must be in here. I go away
>for a year or so and everybody forgets me.

Bill, you're just like a case of hemorrhoids and just as subtle.
Which is really unforgettable. <:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>I'll make a bigger impact this time.
>
>How's that?
>
>BWB
>

[Dennis O'Connor]

No BWB, you are not forgotten, merely dreaded :)
denny
"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 04:16:24 GMT, (Badwater
> Bill) wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:54:16 -0600, "VideoGuy" <gkasten at brick dot
> >net> wrote:
> >
> >>Err... Sorry Bill, or is it MR. Phillips?
> >>
> >>Gary
> >
> >It's Dr. Phillips, but I don't use that at all. I prefer Badwater
> >Bill as I have used it here for nearly 10 years. The Dr. bull **** is
> >for when I lecture at universities or in Europe. They're big on
> >titles in both of those places.
> >
> >I can't believe all the new people that must be in here. I go away
> >for a year or so and everybody forgets me.
>
> Bill, you're just like a case of hemorrhoids and just as subtle.
> Which is really unforgettable. <:-))
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
> >
> >I'll make a bigger impact this time.
> >
> >How's that?
> >
> >BWB
> >
>

[pacplyer]

Good Post Bill,

I'm asking you and your detractors to both stay at Rah. (even "a" the
mad scientist.)
As one of the most experienced driver/builder/instructors (wow - seven
instr. ratings) I think you need to post a monthy "BS (Black Sheep)
Rah status" report that summarizes your take of certain homebuilts,
wild claims, national events etc, and your take on other posters
opinions which would include at the end of it a "history of rah"
including all the elements in your post below. I submit it needs to
be posted monthly so that fairly new people like me will understand
some of the references and be able to distinguish anonymous
axe-grinders from people who exclusively use the same "handle" all the
time. This would keep new entrants from assuming you're just a
Howard Stern who pretends, like they do, to fly experimental machines.
John O. and Jay's Rouge Gallery have been invaluable to me in
figuring out who's who around here. I hope they continue announcing
these sites for others. I dig the BWB salute. LOL!

I argue that you should not poll any of the cranky regulars or
old-timers about this idea (because you are one,) Bill, just put those
brass bearings in gear and do it. (what'd you think RAH was? A
democracy?) I think it's pure free-speech hangar flying/building on
the brink of anarchy. I wouldn't have it any other way. :-) Maybe
Corky disagrees with this, but he's a gentleman and doesn't want to
engage in mudslinging. I really like reading Corky's stuff too. It's
good. I however, really enjoy your commentary about everything. I'm
asking you and Jay H, to ignore those other low-altitude bug-smashers
that complain about OT rules and advertising breeches of NG conduct.
Who cares? The rich diversity of posters here with varying
backgrounds and the interactions between them is what makes this NG
interesting for me. Let's not run anybody off that's willing to suck
it up and take a few verbal arrows from the old heads now and then.
Yes, even Dr. No (name.) with sketchy claims of Apollo high gain
antennas and hardware orbiting Mars. (Why not make it the Saturn
Cassini probe too?)

I think that new guys that show up and are shocked, are going to have
to realize what I learned during a wildcat illegal strike that
happened at my airline in Vegas in 86'. I was appalled that other
pilots would cross the picket line and take my job for virtually no
pay and benefits. (remember Royal West Airlines by any chance?) Our
Union sec says to me: Yes pac, most aviators don't realize that
pilot's worst enemies are: other pilots.

Budwiser. True. (sorry, I get a commission!)

But I say we verbally lynch anybody who takes their disagreement into
the real world.

I maintain that a few in this group have a lot of trouble with this
concept of Usenet free-speech on unmoderated newsgroups. A guy
shouldn't have to pass through a democratic committee before being
able to post his stories up. And he shouldn't have his computer
attacked in the real world for disagreeing with an obvious rookie
pilot or neophyte builder (as was what happened to me last week, when
someone inserted a new user account into Win XP and hijacked my
administrative functions.) This tells me I must be circulating real
free-speech if the culprit is willing to resort to such low tactics.
Aviation has indeed changed when I took lessons in 1977. I had
respect for the older guys who ran forums at Osh or were published in
builder newsletters or who flew exotic equipment.

I was told here recently by a low-time pilot: "even a fish wouldn't
get into trouble if it kept it's mouth shut." Then I couldn't post
because my cookies had been altered on Internet Explorer and I didn't
have authorization on my own computer to change it! Doesn't this seem
like a low act committed by a control-freak attempting to run-off
pilots with greater breath of background and experience? Or is this
normal in usenet? It would seem to me that this is very
un-American behavior. (as was the act of poking holes in a guy's
airplane or turning them into the feds; unbelievable!) If they can't
live with this free-speech idea, then hopefully, those people, will
consider my suggestion to pick up a one-way ticket to Pyangyang or
Havana. I feel they'd just be happier in a dictatorship in general.
They could really relate to daily intrusions of their private
documents and harsh consequences for exercising their right to voice
an opinion.

I say BWB: stick around. I think you're more than reasonable. If
old friends or posters can't forgive a little foul language and
bluster, then the devil with them. Alternatively, if you find a NG
with better content, or can tell me how to lobby for one that's
moderated by someone with an open mind, let me know.

How about these:

RAR rec.aviation.realpilots
RAS rec.aviation.scudrunning
RAM rec.aviation.mercenaries
RAC rec.aviation.crustyold****ers

Uh Oh, that last one's going to attract Dr. Sanitizer, and his CPU
death ray, I just know it!

pacmad

(off the air for a while till my newfirewall gets in.)








(Badwater Bill) wrote in message >...
> >
> >There's no need to be sorry about good fortune but there is also no
> >need for you to trash everyone who hasn't done exactly what you did
> >either.
>
> I agree Corky. What I get ****ed off about is the lack of courtesy
> that the know-nothings have. The bold and abrasive attacks and
> challenges of the know-nothings, the people (unlike you) who really
> don't want to learn anything, but just want to lie about what they
> are, what they have done and who they are. This place deteriorates to
> that level a lot although I haven't seen it in the last three days.
>
> >
> >Everyone is different and as the Indian's used to say: "one man cannot
> >tell another man what to do."
>
> Sure they can. You are just an introvert. The idiots need direction
> or they wouldn't be hounding for it.
>
> >
> >You were obviously born with the smarts to accomplish what you wanted
> >to do, that's great. But some people put relationships and family
> >first, above flying.
>
> I understand that.
>
> > I'm too old to be a commercial pilot now, but
> >I'm not too old to follow through what I started as a kid and get my
> >license. Now that that's accomplished, the next goal is to finish the
> >airplane which I started 13 years ago. I cannot spend lots of money
> >on it because I don't have lots of money to spend. It's a plans built
> >type airplane because I could not afford the large outlay of cash
> >necessary to buy a kit upfront. Scrounging for parts and pieces is
> >interesting but slow. But I get enormous satisfaction in working on
> >the airplane. When it's finally done, I may go into withdraw with
> >nothing to do at night but hope for flying weather.
>
> Naaah. You'll find another project. I oil paint and draw a lot, and
> build RC models. You'll do the same. You'll find something to use
> your right lobe and keep busy when you retire from the library. That's
> the way it is with people who are bright. They find a challenge no
> matter what stage of life they are in.
>
> I pray for boredom. I haven't had the opportunity to be bored since
> childhood. What a luxury to be bored. I pray for the day when I can
> once again be bored. I get up at 6 a.m. and I crank-ass all day
> long. I try to take a nap,but seldomly get the chance unless I'm just
> tired as hell and my body forces me to rest.
>
> GOD! What it would be like to be bored for a couple hours. I have no
> chance of looking forward to that in life. There is just too much out
> there that I haven't done and want to do. Most of it requires a lot
> of study too. I'll explain.
>
> When I was teaching physics at the university, students would come to
> my office and ask me how to solve a physics problem I had assigned as
> homework. I usually found that they hadn't even tried the problem.
> That's like what I see a lot of here on RAH. I would tell them to go
> spend 8 hours on the problem and if they couldn't solve it, come back
> and I would give them some guidance---I would not tell them that I
> would give them the secret to the problem, only some guidance. They
> rolled over and puked in my office and went away.
>
> What I hated was someone who wanted to start at the top without paying
> the proper dues. Wing-Ding is like that. He want's to have it all
> without walking through the maze. I guess most people are like that,
> they want degrees and titles and the cream, but pay no dues.
>
> RAH is like that. What I see are people who want a free ride and
> capitalize on the experience of all the old time masters like O'ring
> and others who left long ago, but the newbees want to pay no dues.
> The young people especially nowadays want instant gratification. They
> don't want to work for anything. They figure they are worth $15
> bucks/hr just because they breath air. If you expect them to do
> anything, then that's extra.
>
> I love to paint oil paintings. I'm not that good either. I guess I
> like it because I am not that good. I have a LONG way to go before I
> get to be what I consider an average artist. I have a friend who is a
> master painter by anyone's opinion. Three years ago I went to him and
> told him of my secret wish to become a good painter. He was a math
> professor at UNLV when I was teaching physics there back in the early
> 1970's. So, he too is tired of students who "didn't try the problem"
> before they came in wanting the secret to the proof. He is a great
> mathematician with many published proofs and is well known in his
> trade. He is also an accomplished artist with many shows and is worth
> enough money that he doesn't have to work anymore. This is what he
> said to me, a close friend and good buddy:
>
> "Ah, Bill, so you really want to paint well eh? I would be happy to
> help you. This is what you do so you can learn to be an artist. Get
> yourself a sketching pad and some good pencils. Draw for an hour each
> day for TEN years, the come back to me. I'll be happy to help you
> then."
>
> I have been drawing an hour each day now for three years (more, most
> days). In seven years I'll go back to him and ask for his advice.
>
> Now that I have drawn for three years, I understand why he said that.
> The same thing goes for building airplanes. Go learn to fly at least,
> then consider how to build an airplane. Or, go build something
> substantial and then consider building an airplane. But, no matter
> what you do, DO SOMETHING. Don't just come in swinging and asking
> stupid questions like: I want to build an airplane that carries 4
> people at 400 mph on 4 gallons/hr and has a service ceiling of 30,000
> feet....oh, and I only want to spend $20 grand.
>
> Then if an old boy like me nails the guy, you and all of the rest of
> the people of RAH-land condemn me for my uncaring and abrasive
> nature. Give me a break. Most of the people here are just not worth
> the effort, that's the problem. It isn't a high quality array of
> builders or pilots who post here. The most intimidating assholes here
> are not pilots, not builders and also anonymous so you can't hunt them
> down and kill them for their threats.
>
> >
> >Frankly Bill you do not have to be here and I keep wondering what's
> >keeping you tethered. You hate this place, hate most of the guys here
> >and **** all over everyone routinely.
>
> You are right Corky. I don't belong here. John Stricker said that
> years ago. "Just too much experience for this group Bill."
>
> So, where would you recommend that I go? I like human interaction and
> because I am alive I am social. What group do you feel I would fit
> into?
>
> There is an entire evolvement that goes on when you post to ng's that
> I didn't know 8 years ago. I came in here as a test pilot on Jess
> Meyer's RV-6A with the Chevy Engine in it and posted the results of my
> flights almost daily. I enjoyed the feedback that I got. Then I
> became addicted to the instant feedback. After that I loved just
> writing stories here. But what happened next was something that
> brought me back to reality.
>
> The Mini-500 helicopter thing happened. I hated what I perceived
> Fetters for doing and that was marketing a deathtrap. The builders
> elected me as their President and Tony Pucillo was our lawyer. At
> that point when real homebuilders were getting killed I got serious
> here and on the rotorcraft group. I was very serious. Even Tony saw
> a big change in my posts as I became more serious and worried about
> the crashes and the fatalities. I did what I could as you all know to
> curtail those crashes and help the builders. What that did to me here
> is turn me from an entertaining sort of guy, to a man with a mission
> to expose what the builders were seeing as inadequacies in that
> Kit-helicotper.
>
> So, I went from the jovial story writer to a serious guy to deal with.
> I didn't want that, but I really had no choice. And, I do feel like I
> saved a few lives. If I never do anything else in life to promote the
> safety and well being of pilots everywhere, I feel that my efforts
> concerning the Mini-500 were worth it.
>
> What I would like now is to be left alone. I don't want confrontation
> or conflict with anyone here. I'd like to post here from time to time
> and just convey my thoughts on things, because I really don't know
> where else to hang out if I decide to post on the Internet. I have
> spent no time on the other groups and I don't know anyone there. RAH
> is my depth on Usegroups.
>
> It's like the OMABP. It's a place that all men can go, even to this
> day and expect conflict and confrontation on a daily basis. For those
> who don't know what the OMABP is, do a search.
>
> Where else do you hang out if you like to talk with people? Maybe
> they all don't have your level of professionalism or experience but
> it's still a group of people. If you are social then I think you need
> people. I'd like things to be different if they could, but I think
> they can't. If you know something I don't Corky, then you tell me
> where to hang out and I'll try it.
>
> Just don't give me any crap and I won't give you any. That goes for
> anyone here. I'm not looking for a fight, but you guys know that I
> can end one if some dork picks it.
>
>
> BWB
>
>
>
> >
> >Corky Scott

[Badwater Bill]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:22:45 -0500, "Dennis O'Connor"
> wrote:

>No BWB, you are not forgotten, merely dreaded :)
>denny

Thank you Denny. Now, that brought a tear to my eye. It's nice to be
appreciated and loved.

BWB

[Badwater Bill]

>
>But I say we verbally lynch anybody who takes their disagreement into
>the real world.

Man, how I'd like to. The anonymous cowards cover their tracks. But,
in some cases, not all that well. I've set my sights on a couple that
I've found out about.


>
>I say BWB: stick around. I think you're more than reasonable. If
>old friends or posters can't forgive a little foul language and
>bluster, then the devil with them. Alternatively, if you find a NG
>with better content, or can tell me how to lobby for one that's
>moderated by someone with an open mind, let me know.
>
> How about these:
>
>RAR rec.aviation.realpilots
>RAS rec.aviation.scudrunning
>RAM rec.aviation.mercenaries
>RAC rec.aviation.crustyold****ers

Now that's for me. Any of them ought to do. I say, you just gotta
have a bit of experience to apply to post there. That cuts all the
armchair anonymous assholes out of the loop.

>
>Uh Oh, that last one's going to attract Dr. Sanitizer, and his CPU
>death ray, I just know it!
>
>pacmad
>
>(off the air for a while till my newfirewall gets in.)

ATTABOY Pac. Hang in there buddy. But, nothing here will change.
This place will continue to be infested with people who are infections
on Earth; armchair dreamers who's deepest dream is what they are
going to cook for dinner tonight instead of what airplane they might
fly in their miserable, insignificant lives. Most of the most brazen
and challenging assholes are those who don't even know how to fly.

You come here and post, looking for fellow pilots to talk with and you
get nothing. If you do get a pilot, he most likely hasn't flown
anything experimental or high performance, or strange. So, you end up
talking to yourself mostly.

You start challenging them about something and you see no depth. You
then ask them what they've flown, what their ratings are and what
they've done, and you get ZERO. That's RAH for the most part.

Once in while you'll get someone with some depth to respond. It's
those rare and exciting moments that you wait for and that keep you
here.

I challenge any of the anonymous pricks who shoot off their brazen
mouths here to post a story about flying. Make it up. You *******s
make most of this **** up anyway. But, do something. Do anything
that might be entertaining. You see, Pac, they can't even do that
because they really don't even know what an aileron is. That's the
real problem. Nope, they come here to be challenging and threatening
to those people who have done it for years.

I've been flying since 1957. I can write a story that's complete bull
**** about any facet of aviation and I'll make it believable here.
I've done it. I've purposely put in flaws so the guys who really did
it, could detect it. I laugh like hell when I get bounced about a 50
cal. weapon in the back of a Huey. I know it's an M-60. But I
purposely put 50 Cal in the story just to see who will know. It's
amazing how little they really know. Then you get to thinking that
they can't even fly. So you continue with a few follow-ups and sure
enough, they screw up something really basic. What a hoot. Maybe
that's part of what I like about this ****---bouncing the frauds. Ha
Ha.

Who knows. But there has been something adictive to RAH for me for
many years. I think it's the instant feedback I get on a post. When
I really think something out and put it here, although there is
usually a lot of garbage to follow, there are some people who do think
and who do add some things, no matter what their depth in flying
experience.

Take a guy like John Amp Meter. John doesn't have a lot of flying
experience, but he did build an RV-6 and he learned to fly it well
enough to get a license. That's a great thing. John never pushes
his posts into the areas he knows nothing about. He's an honest man.
If he's going to write a story about something it's obvious that he
writes it with his viewpoint. He doesn't push the envelope to be
something he isn't. He's a breath of fresh air for me to read.
There's never any bull **** with John's posts.

Bourbon is another one. He's an old high timer like me, but he never
pushes into the stuff he doesn't know about. If you read his posts,
they are always his opinion about something, or a funny quip about
something. He too is an honest man and he is insightful.

The insulting fakes who threaten and challenge and abrade you here is
what wears me out. Mostly, there is so much wrong with each post they
make, it would take too much time to counter it because you would have
to lay too much foundation for anyone to follow it. So, you just take
their **** and shake your head.

Ahh, well, I'm rambling on about crap that is not even fun. I'm
outahere. **** ya all.

Bad Billy, Bad to the bone!

[John Harlow]

>> No BWB, you are not forgotten, merely dreaded :)
>> denny
>
> Thank you Denny. Now, that brought a tear to my eye. It's nice to be
> appreciated and loved.

Maybe you just farted.