Helicopter accident

[Manuel]

Now that's really bad news... about a month ago, I complained to the Swiss
FOCA (the local FAA) because a helicopter landed in our neighbour's
backyard, and I was sure that he hadn't a permit. Furthermore the maneuver
looked very dangerous because there were tall trees very close nearby, and I
thought this was irresponsible and maybe illegal (after all, I didn't want a
helicopter crash on my house, which is about 30 meters away).

The FOCA thanked me for the information. The helicopter did in fact have a
permit, but for the wrong town. Anyway, they didn't do anything.

Yesterday the helicopter crashed in a similar situation (it somehow touched
a cable or power line) and the pilot's life is in danger.

I now feel bad because I think I could have done more to avoid that... I
mean, I already saw a dangerous situation, and I complained via email. What
I got was a "thank you, not doing anything" reply.

OK, that's not a psychology newsgroup, but I had do tell someone what I feel
about that...

-Manuel
PPL(A) SEP




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[Peter Hovorka]

Hi Manuel,

you are not the pilots nor the FOCA nor the helicopter companys nanny!

You have done everything you could do. I am impressed that you wrote an
email to the FOCA - no one can tell that there would have been a more
stringent reaction from their side if you had written a letter via snail
mail.

Also, the pilot is fully responsible for what he's doing - and as a
(C)HPL, he should be aware of the dangers of power lines, trees etc. If
you're looking for someone to blame - it's him. Sad but true.

Let's hope the best that he recovers from that sh** :(

Regards,
Peter

[William W. Plummer]

"Manuel" > wrote in message
...
> Now that's really bad news... about a month ago, I complained to the Swiss
> FOCA (the local FAA) because a helicopter landed in our neighbour's
> backyard, and I was sure that he hadn't a permit.
What kind of permit do you need? In the US you might risk the land owner
complaining about tresspass, but I don't believe individual towns, counties,
cities, states, etc regulate landing. When I was ballooning, we would
always ask the land owner if it would be OK to land in their yard if they
had run out to see what was going on. Nobody every denied access.

[EDR]

In article <br9Qb.107885$nt4.402694@attbi_s51>, William W. Plummer
> wrote:

> In the US you might risk the land owner complaining about tresspass,
> but I don't believe individual towns, counties,cities, states, etc
> regulate landing.

Oh yes they do!
The city I live in banned private helicopter operations within the city
limits back in the 1980's after a rollover accident at a hotel.

[Patrick Kormann]

Manuel wrote:

> -Manuel
> PPL(A) SEP

Hi!

I'm training for a PPL license and hope to have my first flying lesson
tomorrow (Bern Belp)

:)

[Peter Hovorka]

Hi,

I don't know the situation in swiss, but german regulations don't permit
landings of motorized aircraft or helicopters without a special permittance.

There are - on the other hand - a few companies with a permanent permit
for doing so, but just a few.

iirc even the official services here don't have a regular permit, they
act on a rule handling landings and restart in emergencies.

Regards,
Peter

[C J Campbell]

"William W. Plummer" > wrote in message
news:br9Qb.107885$nt4.402694@attbi_s51...
|
| "Manuel" > wrote in message
| ...
| > Now that's really bad news... about a month ago, I complained to the
Swiss
| > FOCA (the local FAA) because a helicopter landed in our neighbour's
| > backyard, and I was sure that he hadn't a permit.
| What kind of permit do you need? In the US you might risk the land owner
| complaining about tresspass, but I don't believe individual towns,
counties,
| cities, states, etc regulate landing. When I was ballooning, we would
| always ask the land owner if it would be OK to land in their yard if they
| had run out to see what was going on. Nobody every denied access.

There was this on AVweb Jan. 5:

"Stamford, Conn., officials are reviewing the city ordinance that landed the
pilot of a medical helicopter in hot water last week. William Pope, 67, of
Andover, N.J., was ticketed by Stamford police after he landed his chopper
in the local hospital's parking lot. Pope was picking up a sick infant for
transport to an intensive care unit in Valhalla, N.Y. The flight was ordered
by a Stamford doctor, who apparently didn't know about the city's official
disdain for helicopters. "Unfortunately she was not aware that we have a
city ordinance that does not allow any helicopters to land anywhere in
Stamford," said Assistant Police Chief Richard Priolo. Police met the
helicopter when it landed and issued the ticket immediately without delaying
the flight, said Priolo. But it turns out that if the sick child had already
been on the helicopter and was being delivered to Stamford, the pilot might
have beaten the rap. The ordinance allows helicopters to land if the life of
someone aboard is in danger. "

[C J Campbell]

You did your best. However, governments should not be in the business of
issuing permits to land. It is the job of the pilot to make sure the landing
area is safe.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "William W. Plummer" > wrote in
message
> news:br9Qb.107885$nt4.402694@attbi_s51...
> |
> | "Manuel" > wrote in message
> | ...
> | > Now that's really bad news... about a month ago, I complained to the
> Swiss
> | > FOCA (the local FAA) because a helicopter landed in our neighbour's
> | > backyard, and I was sure that he hadn't a permit.
> | What kind of permit do you need? In the US you might risk the land
owner
> | complaining about tresspass, but I don't believe individual towns,
> counties,
> | cities, states, etc regulate landing. When I was ballooning, we would
> | always ask the land owner if it would be OK to land in their yard if
they
> | had run out to see what was going on. Nobody every denied access.
>
> There was this on AVweb Jan. 5:
>
> "Stamford, Conn., officials are reviewing the city ordinance that landed
the
> pilot of a medical helicopter in hot water last week. William Pope, 67, of
> Andover, N.J., was ticketed by Stamford police after he landed his chopper
> in the local hospital's parking lot. Pope was picking up a sick infant for
> transport to an intensive care unit in Valhalla, N.Y. The flight was
ordered
> by a Stamford doctor, who apparently didn't know about the city's official
> disdain for helicopters. "Unfortunately she was not aware that we have a
> city ordinance that does not allow any helicopters to land anywhere in
> Stamford," said Assistant Police Chief Richard Priolo. Police met the
> helicopter when it landed and issued the ticket immediately without
delaying
> the flight, said Priolo. But it turns out that if the sick child had
already
> been on the helicopter and was being delivered to Stamford, the pilot
might
> have beaten the rap. The ordinance allows helicopters to land if the life
of
> someone aboard is in danger. "
>
Somebody in Stamford finally removed their head from their anal cavity and
rescinded the ticket.

Damn...it only took being scoffed at nationally.

[Manuel W.]

Hi Patrick,
good luck with your first flying lesson! I have trained out of Lugano-Agno.
Contact me privately if you like...

-Manuel


"Patrick Kormann" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> I'm training for a PPL license and hope to have my first flying lesson
> tomorrow (Bern Belp)




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[Peter Hovorka]

Hi :)

I guess that's the proof that bureaucracy surely has its origins in
germany, but has spread successfully troughout the world? ;)

Regards,
Peter

PS: Many thanks for the IFR diary!

[Rob Perkins]

"Patrick Kormann" > wrote:

>I'm training for a PPL license and hope to have my first flying lesson
>tomorrow (Bern Belp)

What fun! I lived in the Bethlehem section of Bern for three months or
so, back in '89. Never went to the airport, though.

Will you learn mountain flying techniques? Will you get to take cross
countries to Interlaken or other parts of the Berneroberland?

Rob

[Patrick Kormann]

Rob Perkins wrote:

Hi!

> What fun! I lived in the Bethlehem section of Bern for three months or
> so, back in '89. Never went to the airport, though.

Originally I'm from Bümpliz - that's just around the corner there :)
The airport is small, but nice I'd say. You have everything you need,
but not so much traffic.

> Will you learn mountain flying techniques? Will you get to take cross
> countries to Interlaken or other parts of the Berneroberland?

I already got a booklet about some special dangers of flying in
mountains. I don't know how deep the techniques for flying in the
mountains are in the normal lessons - I guess they'll be above average,
as we are so near the mountains. But there are special courses for
example about landing on glaciers (that are not part of the PPL). Maybe
I can tell you more when I have done more than the first lesson :)
It's very well possible that we'll going to make trips to Interlaken.
Belp is quite close to Interlaken, you'll not have to cross very big
mountains for that...
What I know is that towards the end of the education we'll make a short
trip to france (but not over the alps, I guess).

[William W. Plummer]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
> You did your best. However, governments should not be in the business of
> issuing permits to land. It is the job of the pilot to make sure the
landing
> area is safe.

That's a little different. Issuing a permit to land is not a guarantee that
the landing will be safe. Having a pilot's license is not a guarantee that
the plane will be operated safely, either. A landing permit should be your
expressed right to violate the "no landings" law. I'm still amazed that
local governements can restrict aircraft operations without involving the
FAA. (Thank goodness people like balloons!)