Question about corporate insurance.

[Captain Wubba]

Hello. I'm a Commercial Pilot with single engine, multi engine, and
instrument ratings. I have a little less than 600 hours total time,
and only about 20 multi. I have been approached about a possible
position on the West Coast that would be a combination IT staffer and
co-pilot for a King Air 200 the company is going to buy. I know the
owner of the company, and it is pretty solid that I could have the job
if I want it.

My question is about insurance. Now the owner would send me to
training for a type rating in the King Air, but will an insurance
company have a major problem, if the captain is an ATP with a ton of
King Air time? Will they charge a fortune because of my limited
experience? Do they care about the hours the right-seater has? While
they are only looking at the King Air for now, would the insurance
company care about the co-pilot time if it were a Citation? Anybody
who could shed some light on this, or who has experience in this would
be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Cap

[Judah]

Why don't you and the owner call the insurance agency and let them give you
a quote...


(Captain Wubba) wrote in
om:

> Hello. I'm a Commercial Pilot with single engine, multi engine, and
> instrument ratings. I have a little less than 600 hours total time,
> and only about 20 multi. I have been approached about a possible
> position on the West Coast that would be a combination IT staffer and
> co-pilot for a King Air 200 the company is going to buy. I know the
> owner of the company, and it is pretty solid that I could have the job
> if I want it.
>
> My question is about insurance. Now the owner would send me to
> training for a type rating in the King Air, but will an insurance
> company have a major problem, if the captain is an ATP with a ton of
> King Air time? Will they charge a fortune because of my limited
> experience? Do they care about the hours the right-seater has? While
> they are only looking at the King Air for now, would the insurance
> company care about the co-pilot time if it were a Citation? Anybody
> who could shed some light on this, or who has experience in this would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cap
>

[Mike Rapoport]

Why would they care? A King Air 200 is a single pilot airplane.

Mike
MU-2


"Captain Wubba" > wrote in message
om...
> Hello. I'm a Commercial Pilot with single engine, multi engine, and
> instrument ratings. I have a little less than 600 hours total time,
> and only about 20 multi. I have been approached about a possible
> position on the West Coast that would be a combination IT staffer and
> co-pilot for a King Air 200 the company is going to buy. I know the
> owner of the company, and it is pretty solid that I could have the job
> if I want it.
>
> My question is about insurance. Now the owner would send me to
> training for a type rating in the King Air, but will an insurance
> company have a major problem, if the captain is an ATP with a ton of
> King Air time? Will they charge a fortune because of my limited
> experience? Do they care about the hours the right-seater has? While
> they are only looking at the King Air for now, would the insurance
> company care about the co-pilot time if it were a Citation? Anybody
> who could shed some light on this, or who has experience in this would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cap

[Captain Wubba]

Well, I tried calling a couple aviation insurance agencies myself. One
said they couldn't give me a number until I had a specific aircraft
they could run, and when asked about a ballpark figures, they said 'it
all depends', which wasn't really helpful. The other place I called
doesn't do commercial insurance anymore. So I was just joping somebody
here had some experience in this area without me having to call a
dozen different agencies. :)

Cheers,
Cap


Judah > wrote in message >...
> Why don't you and the owner call the insurance agency and let them give you
> a quote...
>
>
> (Captain Wubba) wrote in
> om:
>
> > Hello. I'm a Commercial Pilot with single engine, multi engine, and
> > instrument ratings. I have a little less than 600 hours total time,
> > and only about 20 multi. I have been approached about a possible
> > position on the West Coast that would be a combination IT staffer and
> > co-pilot for a King Air 200 the company is going to buy. I know the
> > owner of the company, and it is pretty solid that I could have the job
> > if I want it.
> >
> > My question is about insurance. Now the owner would send me to
> > training for a type rating in the King Air, but will an insurance
> > company have a major problem, if the captain is an ATP with a ton of
> > King Air time? Will they charge a fortune because of my limited
> > experience? Do they care about the hours the right-seater has? While
> > they are only looking at the King Air for now, would the insurance
> > company care about the co-pilot time if it were a Citation? Anybody
> > who could shed some light on this, or who has experience in this would
> > be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Cap
> >

[Judah]

If the owner called with you, I'm sure he could give them the exact tail
number - it's just a quote...
(Captain Wubba) wrote in
om:

> Well, I tried calling a couple aviation insurance agencies myself. One
> said they couldn't give me a number until I had a specific aircraft
> they could run, and when asked about a ballpark figures, they said 'it
> all depends', which wasn't really helpful. The other place I called
> doesn't do commercial insurance anymore. So I was just joping somebody
> here had some experience in this area without me having to call a
> dozen different agencies. :)
>
> Cheers,
> Cap
>
>
> Judah > wrote in message
> >...
>> Why don't you and the owner call the insurance agency and let them
>> give you a quote...
>>
>>
>> (Captain Wubba) wrote in
>> om:
>>
>> > Hello. I'm a Commercial Pilot with single engine, multi engine, and
>> > instrument ratings. I have a little less than 600 hours total time,
>> > and only about 20 multi. I have been approached about a possible
>> > position on the West Coast that would be a combination IT staffer
>> > and co-pilot for a King Air 200 the company is going to buy. I know
>> > the owner of the company, and it is pretty solid that I could have
>> > the job if I want it.
>> >
>> > My question is about insurance. Now the owner would send me to
>> > training for a type rating in the King Air, but will an insurance
>> > company have a major problem, if the captain is an ATP with a ton of
>> > King Air time? Will they charge a fortune because of my limited
>> > experience? Do they care about the hours the right-seater has? While
>> > they are only looking at the King Air for now, would the insurance
>> > company care about the co-pilot time if it were a Citation? Anybody
>> > who could shed some light on this, or who has experience in this
>> > would be greatly appreciated.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Cap
>> >

[Mike Rapoport]

I'm not sure what you mean by "commercial insurance". From your
description this is not a commercial operation and you are not even a
required crewmember. I don't see why the insurance company even needs to
know that you exist at all.

Mike
MU-2


"Captain Wubba" > wrote in message
om...
> Well, I tried calling a couple aviation insurance agencies myself. One
> said they couldn't give me a number until I had a specific aircraft
> they could run, and when asked about a ballpark figures, they said 'it
> all depends', which wasn't really helpful. The other place I called
> doesn't do commercial insurance anymore. So I was just joping somebody
> here had some experience in this area without me having to call a
> dozen different agencies. :)
>
> Cheers,
> Cap
>
>
> Judah > wrote in message
>...
> > Why don't you and the owner call the insurance agency and let them give
you
> > a quote...
> >
> >
> > (Captain Wubba) wrote in
> > om:
> >
> > > Hello. I'm a Commercial Pilot with single engine, multi engine, and
> > > instrument ratings. I have a little less than 600 hours total time,
> > > and only about 20 multi. I have been approached about a possible
> > > position on the West Coast that would be a combination IT staffer and
> > > co-pilot for a King Air 200 the company is going to buy. I know the
> > > owner of the company, and it is pretty solid that I could have the job
> > > if I want it.
> > >
> > > My question is about insurance. Now the owner would send me to
> > > training for a type rating in the King Air, but will an insurance
> > > company have a major problem, if the captain is an ATP with a ton of
> > > King Air time? Will they charge a fortune because of my limited
> > > experience? Do they care about the hours the right-seater has? While
> > > they are only looking at the King Air for now, would the insurance
> > > company care about the co-pilot time if it were a Citation? Anybody
> > > who could shed some light on this, or who has experience in this would
> > > be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Cap
> > >

[Captain Wubba]

The problem is they don't *have* one yet. They don't know the tail
number. They know they are going to buy one, just not which one. Which
is why I'm trying to find out some 'ballpark' information in this
forum.
Cap

Judah > wrote in message >...
> If the owner called with you, I'm sure he could give them the exact tail
> number - it's just a quote...
> (Captain Wubba) wrote in
> om:
>
> > Well, I tried calling a couple aviation insurance agencies myself. One
> > said they couldn't give me a number until I had a specific aircraft
> > they could run, and when asked about a ballpark figures, they said 'it
> > all depends', which wasn't really helpful. The other place I called
> > doesn't do commercial insurance anymore. So I was just joping somebody
> > here had some experience in this area without me having to call a
> > dozen different agencies. :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Cap
> >
> >
> > Judah > wrote in message
> > >...
> >> Why don't you and the owner call the insurance agency and let them
> >> give you a quote...
> >>
> >>
> >> (Captain Wubba) wrote in
> >> om:
> >>
> >> > Hello. I'm a Commercial Pilot with single engine, multi engine, and
> >> > instrument ratings. I have a little less than 600 hours total time,
> >> > and only about 20 multi. I have been approached about a possible
> >> > position on the West Coast that would be a combination IT staffer
> >> > and co-pilot for a King Air 200 the company is going to buy. I know
> >> > the owner of the company, and it is pretty solid that I could have
> >> > the job if I want it.
> >> >
> >> > My question is about insurance. Now the owner would send me to
> >> > training for a type rating in the King Air, but will an insurance
> >> > company have a major problem, if the captain is an ATP with a ton of
> >> > King Air time? Will they charge a fortune because of my limited
> >> > experience? Do they care about the hours the right-seater has? While
> >> > they are only looking at the King Air for now, would the insurance
> >> > company care about the co-pilot time if it were a Citation? Anybody
> >> > who could shed some light on this, or who has experience in this
> >> > would be greatly appreciated.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Cap
> >> >

[Captain Wubba]

Well, from what I have been able to gather, most King Air 200s are
operated with two pilots. Apparently insurance rates drop
significantly when operated two-pilot, and I would assume that safety
increases dramatically as well. Problem is, the only 2 people I know
(personally) who fly King Airs for companies both operate in a
two-pilot environment, and both have several thousand hours, and one
is an ATP...so I they have no idea how the insurance company would
feel about a two-pilot operation with the co-pilot being
inexperienced.

Cap


"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message . net>...
> Why would they care? A King Air 200 is a single pilot airplane.
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>
>
> "Captain Wubba" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Hello. I'm a Commercial Pilot with single engine, multi engine, and
> > instrument ratings. I have a little less than 600 hours total time,
> > and only about 20 multi. I have been approached about a possible
> > position on the West Coast that would be a combination IT staffer and
> > co-pilot for a King Air 200 the company is going to buy. I know the
> > owner of the company, and it is pretty solid that I could have the job
> > if I want it.
> >
> > My question is about insurance. Now the owner would send me to
> > training for a type rating in the King Air, but will an insurance
> > company have a major problem, if the captain is an ATP with a ton of
> > King Air time? Will they charge a fortune because of my limited
> > experience? Do they care about the hours the right-seater has? While
> > they are only looking at the King Air for now, would the insurance
> > company care about the co-pilot time if it were a Citation? Anybody
> > who could shed some light on this, or who has experience in this would
> > be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Cap

[Judah]

Ahhh.. Sorry - my confusion. I misread the original post and thought they
already owned the King Air...

Assuming the owner is buying the plane through a broker, maybe the owner can
ask the salesman to help with getting a quote from an agency...

Just trying to help here. I have absolutely no experience in this regard.

So I will wish you good luck and shut up now. :)

(Captain Wubba) wrote in
m:

> The problem is they don't *have* one yet. They don't know the tail
> number. They know they are going to buy one, just not which one. Which
> is why I'm trying to find out some 'ballpark' information in this
> forum.
> Cap

[Robert Moore]

(Captain Wubba) wrote
> so I they have no idea how the insurance company would
> feel about a two-pilot operation with the co-pilot being
> inexperienced.

Just fake'em out with that "Captain" in your name.

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Captain Wubba" > wrote in message
m...
> The problem is they don't *have* one yet. They don't know the tail
> number. They know they are going to buy one, just not which one. Which
> is why I'm trying to find out some 'ballpark' information in this
> forum.
> Cap

My boss owns a Citation CJ that is certified for single pilot operations
(Part 91) and he flys it himself. He has about 6000 hours including about
600 in type. He is the PIC, first last and always. If I fly along, and am
rated but not for SP operations, why would his insurance go UP if he now has
a extra set of hands and eyes in the cockpit with him?

>
> Judah > wrote in message
>...
> > If the owner called with you, I'm sure he could give them the exact tail
> > number - it's just a quote...
> > (Captain Wubba) wrote in
> > om:
> >
> > > Well, I tried calling a couple aviation insurance agencies myself. One
> > > said they couldn't give me a number until I had a specific aircraft
> > > they could run, and when asked about a ballpark figures, they said 'it
> > > all depends', which wasn't really helpful. The other place I called
> > > doesn't do commercial insurance anymore. So I was just joping somebody
> > > here had some experience in this area without me having to call a
> > > dozen different agencies. :)
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Cap
> > >
> > >
> > > Judah > wrote in message
> > > >...
> > >> Why don't you and the owner call the insurance agency and let them
> > >> give you a quote...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> (Captain Wubba) wrote in
> > >> om:
> > >>
> > >> > Hello. I'm a Commercial Pilot with single engine, multi engine, and
> > >> > instrument ratings. I have a little less than 600 hours total time,
> > >> > and only about 20 multi. I have been approached about a possible
> > >> > position on the West Coast that would be a combination IT staffer
> > >> > and co-pilot for a King Air 200 the company is going to buy. I know
> > >> > the owner of the company, and it is pretty solid that I could have
> > >> > the job if I want it.
> > >> >
> > >> > My question is about insurance. Now the owner would send me to
> > >> > training for a type rating in the King Air, but will an insurance
> > >> > company have a major problem, if the captain is an ATP with a ton
of
> > >> > King Air time? Will they charge a fortune because of my limited
> > >> > experience? Do they care about the hours the right-seater has?
While
> > >> > they are only looking at the King Air for now, would the insurance
> > >> > company care about the co-pilot time if it were a Citation? Anybody
> > >> > who could shed some light on this, or who has experience in this
> > >> > would be greatly appreciated.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> >
> > >> > Cap
> > >> >

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
link.net...
> I'm not sure what you mean by "commercial insurance". From your
> description this is not a commercial operation and you are not even a
> required crewmember. I don't see why the insurance company even needs to
> know that you exist at all.
>
> Mike
> MU-2


Quite so. My situation is similar and our companies insurance did't flinch
when they started having a co-pilot along (a JetProp and a Citation CJ).

>
>
> "Captain Wubba" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Well, I tried calling a couple aviation insurance agencies myself. One
> > said they couldn't give me a number until I had a specific aircraft
> > they could run, and when asked about a ballpark figures, they said 'it
> > all depends', which wasn't really helpful. The other place I called
> > doesn't do commercial insurance anymore. So I was just joping somebody
> > here had some experience in this area without me having to call a
> > dozen different agencies. :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Cap
> >
> >
> > Judah > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Why don't you and the owner call the insurance agency and let them
give
> you
> > > a quote...
> > >
> > >
> > > (Captain Wubba) wrote in
> > > om:
> > >
> > > > Hello. I'm a Commercial Pilot with single engine, multi engine, and
> > > > instrument ratings. I have a little less than 600 hours total time,
> > > > and only about 20 multi. I have been approached about a possible
> > > > position on the West Coast that would be a combination IT staffer
and
> > > > co-pilot for a King Air 200 the company is going to buy. I know the
> > > > owner of the company, and it is pretty solid that I could have the
job
> > > > if I want it.
> > > >
> > > > My question is about insurance. Now the owner would send me to
> > > > training for a type rating in the King Air, but will an insurance
> > > > company have a major problem, if the captain is an ATP with a ton of
> > > > King Air time? Will they charge a fortune because of my limited
> > > > experience? Do they care about the hours the right-seater has? While
> > > > they are only looking at the King Air for now, would the insurance
> > > > company care about the co-pilot time if it were a Citation? Anybody
> > > > who could shed some light on this, or who has experience in this
would
> > > > be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Cap
> > > >
>
>

[Mike Rapoport]

I doubt that it makes much difference single pilot vs. two pilot in a King
Air as long as the single pilot is a professional pilot and not the owner.
It makes a fairly big difference insuring a jet.

Mike
MU-2


"Captain Wubba" > wrote in message
om...
> Well, from what I have been able to gather, most King Air 200s are
> operated with two pilots. Apparently insurance rates drop
> significantly when operated two-pilot, and I would assume that safety
> increases dramatically as well. Problem is, the only 2 people I know
> (personally) who fly King Airs for companies both operate in a
> two-pilot environment, and both have several thousand hours, and one
> is an ATP...so I they have no idea how the insurance company would
> feel about a two-pilot operation with the co-pilot being
> inexperienced.
>
> Cap
>
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
. net>...
> > Why would they care? A King Air 200 is a single pilot airplane.
> >
> > Mike
> > MU-2
> >
> >
> > "Captain Wubba" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Hello. I'm a Commercial Pilot with single engine, multi engine, and
> > > instrument ratings. I have a little less than 600 hours total time,
> > > and only about 20 multi. I have been approached about a possible
> > > position on the West Coast that would be a combination IT staffer and
> > > co-pilot for a King Air 200 the company is going to buy. I know the
> > > owner of the company, and it is pretty solid that I could have the job
> > > if I want it.
> > >
> > > My question is about insurance. Now the owner would send me to
> > > training for a type rating in the King Air, but will an insurance
> > > company have a major problem, if the captain is an ATP with a ton of
> > > King Air time? Will they charge a fortune because of my limited
> > > experience? Do they care about the hours the right-seater has? While
> > > they are only looking at the King Air for now, would the insurance
> > > company care about the co-pilot time if it were a Citation? Anybody
> > > who could shed some light on this, or who has experience in this would
> > > be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Cap

[Robert M. Gary]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message . net>...
> Why would they care? A King Air 200 is a single pilot airplane.
>
> Mike
> MU-2

Because if there were any type of accident and the insurance company
thought that perhaps this guy was the guy flying they wouldn't pay. My
insurance company says the plane must be "piloted" by named insureds.
I don't think the FAA's PIC rules mean **** to the insurance company,
they want to know who's hand is on the controls. Plus, if the left
seater is a CFI they could even claim he was giving instruction to a
non-named pilot, which their policy also does not cover. Remember that
the rules of the insurance world are different from the FAA.

-Robert

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
. net>...
> > Why would they care? A King Air 200 is a single pilot airplane.
> >
> > Mike
> > MU-2
>
> Because if there were any type of accident and the insurance company
> thought that perhaps this guy was the guy flying they wouldn't pay. My
> insurance company says the plane must be "piloted" by named insureds.
> I don't think the FAA's PIC rules mean **** to the insurance company,
> they want to know who's hand is on the controls. Plus, if the left
> seater is a CFI they could even claim he was giving instruction to a
> non-named pilot, which their policy also does not cover. Remember that
> the rules of the insurance world are different from the FAA.
>

They can CLAIM anything; proving it is another matter, especially when the
rules state otherwise.

[Robert M. Gary]

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message >...
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> . net>...
> > > Why would they care? A King Air 200 is a single pilot airplane.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > MU-2
> >
> > Because if there were any type of accident and the insurance company
> > thought that perhaps this guy was the guy flying they wouldn't pay. My
> > insurance company says the plane must be "piloted" by named insureds.
> > I don't think the FAA's PIC rules mean **** to the insurance company,
> > they want to know who's hand is on the controls. Plus, if the left
> > seater is a CFI they could even claim he was giving instruction to a
> > non-named pilot, which their policy also does not cover. Remember that
> > the rules of the insurance world are different from the FAA.
> >
>
> They can CLAIM anything; proving it is another matter,

They can CLAIM what you admit to in court (unless you plan to lie and
say you didn't touch the controls).

> especially when the
> rules state otherwise.

My ins. rules say only the insured can touch the controls. Does your
policy say something different???

[G.R. Patterson III]

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:
>
> My ins. rules say only the insured can touch the controls. Does your
> policy say something different??

Mine certainly does. It says that only people with certain qualifications can
serve as pilot in command.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Tom Sixkiller]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
> >
> > My ins. rules say only the insured can touch the controls. Does your
> > policy say something different??
>
> Mine certainly does. It says that only people with certain qualifications
can
> serve as pilot in command.
>

As does the insurance for our three corporate aircraft.

I also get the sense the insurance company is glad our two CJ rated partners
(aged 68 and 64) DON'T fly in single-pilot mode as much anymore.