DCA and the 30 minute rule.

[Ardna]

The TSA or whoever after 9/11 imposed a rule on flights in and out of DCA
that no passenger may leave their seat until 30 minutes after takeoff and 30
minutes before landing. My question is simple, what if 6 people all stand up
at once on say , a 737. Are the two cabin crew members going to be able to
do anything about it ? And yes, some of you are going to reply with the fact
that there may be air marshals on the flight, but say there wasn't - what
could 2 cabin crew really do to stop 6 people at once ?

[Jim Fisher]

"Ardna" > wrote in message
what
> could 2 cabin crew really do to stop 6 people at once ?


In this day and time, I'd reckon it would be six against 400 or so - Plus
air marshals and crew.

--
Jim Fisher

[Pilot Bob]

Why do some people rock the boat by asking obvious questions? We are all
much happier when we pretend these security measures make us safer.

"Ardna" > wrote in message
news:x1IQb.45437$Ar1.101@fed1read04...
> The TSA or whoever after 9/11 imposed a rule on flights in and out of DCA
> that no passenger may leave their seat until 30 minutes after takeoff and
30
> minutes before landing. My question is simple, what if 6 people all stand
up
> at once on say , a 737. Are the two cabin crew members going to be able to
> do anything about it ? And yes, some of you are going to reply with the
fact
> that there may be air marshals on the flight, but say there wasn't - what
> could 2 cabin crew really do to stop 6 people at once ?

[David Dyer-Bennet]

"Ardna" > writes:

> The TSA or whoever after 9/11 imposed a rule on flights in and out of DCA
> that no passenger may leave their seat until 30 minutes after takeoff and 30
> minutes before landing. My question is simple, what if 6 people all stand up
> at once on say , a 737. Are the two cabin crew members going to be able to
> do anything about it ? And yes, some of you are going to reply with the fact
> that there may be air marshals on the flight, but say there wasn't - what
> could 2 cabin crew really do to stop 6 people at once ?

First thing, warn the people in the cockpit about it. So they can be
especially careful about the door; it'd be a bad time to go out to
take a leak, for example.

The two crew members probably aren't going to be able to do anything
in terms of controlling the 6 hijackers by force, no.

Of course, telling them all to sit down, loudly, so everybody hears,
and saying that if they don't it'll be obvious they're hijackers and
the passengers should stomp them might work.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[Jay Somerset]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:57:56 -0700, "Ardna"
> wrote:

> The TSA or whoever after 9/11 imposed a rule on flights in and out of DCA
> that no passenger may leave their seat until 30 minutes after takeoff and 30
> minutes before landing. My question is simple, what if 6 people all stand up
> at once on say , a 737. Are the two cabin crew members going to be able to
> do anything about it ? And yes, some of you are going to reply with the fact
> that there may be air marshals on the flight, but say there wasn't - what
> could 2 cabin crew really do to stop 6 people at once ?
>
>
As others have pointed out, it will be much harder for anyone to storm the
cockpit, but the rule is meant to cause several things to happen, should it
be broken, and the pasenger(s) do not immediately sit down and buckle up.

Should this happen, it causes an immediate abort of the approach to DCA,
scrambling of intercept jets, and a diversion to a holding pattern, and
eventual diversion to some other airport. The local DC security level
automatically ratchets up a notch or so, until the extent of the infraction
can be reliably assessed.

Rules such as this are not designed to thwart would-be highjackers, they are
meant to dramatically reduce the number of incidents that could be
interpreted as the start of such an attempt. Same as with the FRZ and ADIZ
rules around Washington DC -- they are designed to reduce the "unknown
clutter" so that an actual threat can be recognized more swiftly and
accurately, and dealt with more expeditiously.

[Ron Natalie]

"Ardna" > wrote in message news:x1IQb.45437$Ar1.101@fed1read04...
> The TSA or whoever after 9/11 imposed a rule on flights in and out of DCA
> that no passenger may leave their seat until 30 minutes after takeoff and 30
> minutes before landing. My question is simple, what if 6 people all stand up
> at once on say , a 737.

The plane will divert away from DCA in that case. We've had a bunch of
diversions to Dulles of DCA flights for various reasons from passenger insurrection
(so far not terrorist related) to pilots not getting the right password for the day's
flight.

[Chuck]

"David Dyer-Bennet" > wrote in message
...

<snip>
> First thing, warn the people in the cockpit about it. So they can be
> especially careful about the door; it'd be a bad time to go out to
> take a leak, for example.
>
<snip>

But the 6 people stood up because they all had to take a leak at the same
time. There could be a fight at the bathroom door.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Ardna wrote:
>
> The TSA or whoever after 9/11 imposed a rule on flights in and out of DCA
> that no passenger may leave their seat until 30 minutes after takeoff and 30
> minutes before landing. My question is simple, what if 6 people all stand up
> at once on say , a 737.

The crew would declare an emergency and have the plane on the ground before they
could make a dent in the door.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Jay Somerset]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:18:49 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> wrote:

>
>
> Ardna wrote:
> >
> > The TSA or whoever after 9/11 imposed a rule on flights in and out of DCA
> > that no passenger may leave their seat until 30 minutes after takeoff and 30
> > minutes before landing. My question is simple, what if 6 people all stand up
> > at once on say , a 737.
>
> The crew would declare an emergency and have the plane on the ground before they
> could make a dent in the door.
And possibly with enough of a rollercoaster ride to seriously injure any
unbelted passenger.

>
> George Patterson
> Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
> "Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[David Dyer-Bennet]

"Chuck" > writes:

> "David Dyer-Bennet" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> <snip>
>> First thing, warn the people in the cockpit about it. So they can be
>> especially careful about the door; it'd be a bad time to go out to
>> take a leak, for example.
>>
> <snip>
>
> But the 6 people stood up because they all had to take a leak at the same
> time. There could be a fight at the bathroom door.

So they'll sit down when told. It can be sorted out easily enough, if
nobody does anything too stupid.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[Ardna]

But why just DCA ? Surely our other cities that have a major airport within
15 miles of downtown, deserve this level of 'security' ?

I really think that the whole security thing has to be revisited. At the
orange level, they have anti-aircraft systems placed about monuments while
the nuke plants get the local cops and some national guard patrolling the
perimeter - I feel safer already.





"David Dyer-Bennet" > wrote in message
...
> "Chuck" > writes:
>
> > "David Dyer-Bennet" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > <snip>
> >> First thing, warn the people in the cockpit about it. So they can be
> >> especially careful about the door; it'd be a bad time to go out to
> >> take a leak, for example.
> >>
> > <snip>
> >
> > But the 6 people stood up because they all had to take a leak at the
same
> > time. There could be a fight at the bathroom door.
>
> So they'll sit down when told. It can be sorted out easily enough, if
> nobody does anything too stupid.
> --
> David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
> RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
> Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots:
<www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
> Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

[Ron Natalie]

"Ardna" > wrote in message news:8NnRb.3118$QJ3.1731@fed1read04...
> But why just DCA ? Surely our other cities that have a major airport within
> 15 miles of downtown, deserve this level of 'security' ?

Welcome to hell inside the beltway. Same reason we're practically shutting
down the three closest in GA fields.