Renting ?'s

[Eric Backscheider]

I had a few questions about renting aircraft. I am very close to
taking my check ride and my FBO said once I get my ticket I then need
to carry a 25k insurance policy on the plane to rent from them. I
don't have a big deal with this, but they go on to say that in the
tailwheel plane that I have been training (J-3) I will not be able to
land at any other airport, period.

Is this normal, for the tailwheel?
Is it normal to have to carry insurance on a plane that I rent?

Once I get my ticket I will then have to get checked out in a 150,
152, or 172 in order to fly anywhere.

One other thing.... Does anyone know if there is a J-3, Citabria, or
Champ that is rented in the Cincinnati, Ohio area? If so I would
love to know. I am very close to Hamilton (HAO).

Thanks in advance,
Eric Backscheider
ebackscheider_at_ebaweb.com

[BTIZ]

Needing to carry Renter's Insurance is a normal practice.. it seems the FBO
is relying on you to carry Hull insurance to keep his own insurance costs
down. I'm surprised he did not require it for student solo. (I'm not sure if
insurance companies will underwrite a policy for student solo.)

If you've taken all your training in a J-3.. how did you do your solo cross
country requirements if it was not allowed to land at other airports? It
seems a strange restriction on the J-3.

To check out in the 150/152 or 172 may take a little more than an hour. But
it will come quickly. The J-3 teaches you to use your feet, the 152 can make
you lazy in that regard. It depends on how easily you can transition to nose
wheel steerage.

Not many places around to rent tail wheel aircraft.

BT

"Eric Backscheider" > wrote in message
om...
> I had a few questions about renting aircraft. I am very close to
> taking my check ride and my FBO said once I get my ticket I then need
> to carry a 25k insurance policy on the plane to rent from them. I
> don't have a big deal with this, but they go on to say that in the
> tailwheel plane that I have been training (J-3) I will not be able to
> land at any other airport, period.
>
> Is this normal, for the tailwheel?
> Is it normal to have to carry insurance on a plane that I rent?
>
> Once I get my ticket I will then have to get checked out in a 150,
> 152, or 172 in order to fly anywhere.
>
> One other thing.... Does anyone know if there is a J-3, Citabria, or
> Champ that is rented in the Cincinnati, Ohio area? If so I would
> love to know. I am very close to Hamilton (HAO).
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Eric Backscheider
> ebackscheider_at_ebaweb.com

[Larry Fransson]

On 2004-01-28 20:17:34 -0800, (Eric Backscheider)
said:

> ...but they go on to say that in the
> tailwheel plane that I have been training (J-3) I will not be able to
> land at any other airport, period.
>
> Is this normal, for the tailwheel?

Where I learned to fly, they had an Aeronca Champ. You could learn to fly
in it, but after that, you'd never fly it solo again. It was (might still
be) dual only.

Helicopters aren't much different. When I was learning to fly a
helicopter, solo was no problem. Now that I have a helicopter rating, I
can't get near a helicopter (Robinson, anyway) by myself unless I have a
bunch more time and go take the factory safety course in Torrance,
California.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA

[Jürgen Exner]

Eric Backscheider wrote:
> I had a few questions about renting aircraft. I am very close to
> taking my check ride and my FBO said once I get my ticket I then need
> to carry a 25k insurance policy on the plane to rent from them.

I am surprised. My FBO strongly suggests that you carry a renters insurance
as soon as you solo. Because at that moment you are PIC and responsible for
any damage. Insurance is not formally required because the FBO is covered by
their insurance. However, in case their insurance has to reimburse the FBO,
then their insurance will go after you and they will get their money back
from you. So you better carry your own insurance.

> I
> don't have a big deal with this, but they go on to say that in the
> tailwheel plane that I have been training (J-3) I will not be able to
> land at any other airport, period.
> Is this normal, for the tailwheel?

At my FBO the Aronca Champ must be hand-propped and only the line personal
of the FBO is authorized to do that.
So either you have to take a line man along for the ride or you have to fly
local only.

> Is it normal to have to carry insurance on a plane that I rent?

Yes. For higher-value planes (twin-engine, ...) even mandatory.

jue

[Cub Driver]

Hello, Eric!

>tailwheel plane that I have been training (J-3) I will not be able to
>land at any other airport, period.
>
>Is this normal, for the tailwheel?

No, but I understand their problem. It is very difficult to get a
qualified person to help you prop the plane. We aren't permitted to
prop the plane ourselves, and I presume that's universal. So what are
you going to do? Obviously you're going to take chances, and they
aren't happy about that. At your home field they can control what you
do.

Ask them if you can land if you don't shut down. That's good
experience, assuming there are airports with 25 miles or so.

>Is it normal to have to carry insurance on a plane that I rent?

At the airport where I trained, and where I now rent, we are indeed
required to carry insurance, and I carry $25K hull insurance just as
you are being asked to do. I have a million-dollar liability also.

Have fun! I'm glad to hear there are other airports still training in
J-3s, but I'm sorry it's clipping your wings (as it were).



all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Eric Backscheider]

I am first going for the Rec. So my cross's were with instructor. I
was told that as long as I was a student, then there insurance covers
me, but when I am checked off, I need it. That is OK with me, but if
I buy the insurance, then I don't see why I can't take the plane to a
different airport.

I guess I will just have to buy my own someday. The Cub is a lot of
fun, but if I were going to buy, it would probably be the Citabria.

Thanks,
Eric


"BTIZ" > wrote in message news:<di0Sb.1175$IF1.426@fed1read01>...
> Needing to carry Renter's Insurance is a normal practice.. it seems the FBO
> is relying on you to carry Hull insurance to keep his own insurance costs
> down. I'm surprised he did not require it for student solo. (I'm not sure if
> insurance companies will underwrite a policy for student solo.)
>
> If you've taken all your training in a J-3.. how did you do your solo cross
> country requirements if it was not allowed to land at other airports? It
> seems a strange restriction on the J-3.
>
> To check out in the 150/152 or 172 may take a little more than an hour. But
> it will come quickly. The J-3 teaches you to use your feet, the 152 can make
> you lazy in that regard. It depends on how easily you can transition to nose
> wheel steerage.
>
> Not many places around to rent tail wheel aircraft.
>
> BT

[EDR]

In article >, Eric
Backscheider > wrote:

> One other thing.... Does anyone know if there is a J-3, Citabria, or
> Champ that is rented in the Cincinnati, Ohio area? If so I would
> love to know. I am very close to Hamilton (HAO).

Waynesville (Red Stewart Airfield, 40I) on Route 42, south of town.

[Cub Driver]

>I am first going for the Rec. So my cross's were with instructor.

Eric, here is something you absolutely must do: get a XC endorsement
for your license. Otherwise you will be restricted to airports within
25? miles. You don't want that. Make one flight to an airport 50 miles
away, three touch & go's, and you are golden. (Maybe you have already
done that?)

The other serious restriction on the recreational license is your
inability to entered ATC airspace. The new Sport License will take
care of that, almost certainly. All you will need, once the
sport-license privileges are extended to the recreational cert, is
another endorsement.

Now you can fly coast to coast, in and out of controlled airspace,
just as long as you alight before sundown :)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Jeff Franks]

All previously answered questions aside.....

$25k of hull insurance??????

Last time I checked that would probably cover you in a mid-time 150, but in
a nicer Cub...I think not.

And definitely not in the 172. In the even of a serious accident (a total
loss of the plane), you could get stuck with a bill for another $20k+. I'd
bump that coverage up to around the actual value of the plane before I
started flying it. IMHO.


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[Peter Duniho]

"Jeff Franks" > wrote in message
...
> All previously answered questions aside.....
>
> $25k of hull insurance??????
>
> Last time I checked that would probably cover you in a mid-time 150, but
in
> a nicer Cub...I think not.

Maybe the airplane's owner's insurance has a $25K deductible?

Not that the pilot would necessarily be covered above the deductible anyway,
but the owner of the plane probably doesn't care about that.

Pete

[Cub Driver]

>$25k of hull insurance?

Sure. It's what I carry. A nice Cub can be had for under $30,000.
Besides, the instruments will probably survive the crash :)

My instructor carries $15K. He's even more optimistic about systems
surviving than I am. Besides, he reckons that he can risk some of his
own money in there.

(We don't have a minimum. We are required to be insured, that's all. I
think the airport is mostly interested in covering its own deductible;
it will let the two insurance companies argue about the details.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Newps]

Cub Driver wrote:

A nice Cub can be had for under $30,000.

Nice Cub and Under $30K do not go together. Period.

[lance smith]

My FBO recommends having renters insurance but does not require it.
Their insurance covers renters for most situations but with a $5k
deductable for ASEL to the renter. It goes up with more engines,
retract, etc : )

We can fly the planes anywhere (except to mexico), but then again the
FBO hasn't made any rec pilots.

-lance smith


(Eric Backscheider) wrote in message >...
> I had a few questions about renting aircraft. I am very close to
> taking my check ride and my FBO said once I get my ticket I then need
> to carry a 25k insurance policy on the plane to rent from them. I
> don't have a big deal with this, but they go on to say that in the
> tailwheel plane that I have been training (J-3) I will not be able to
> land at any other airport, period.
>
> Is this normal, for the tailwheel?
> Is it normal to have to carry insurance on a plane that I rent?
>
> Once I get my ticket I will then have to get checked out in a 150,
> 152, or 172 in order to fly anywhere.
>
> One other thing.... Does anyone know if there is a J-3, Citabria, or
> Champ that is rented in the Cincinnati, Ohio area? If so I would
> love to know. I am very close to Hamilton (HAO).
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Eric Backscheider
> ebackscheider_at_ebaweb.com

[Dave Stadt]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> >$25k of hull insurance?
>
> Sure. It's what I carry. A nice Cub can be had for under $30,000.
> Besides, the instruments will probably survive the crash :)
>
> My instructor carries $15K. He's even more optimistic about systems
> surviving than I am. Besides, he reckons that he can risk some of his
> own money in there.

That's not how it works. If he has an accident he will get a check for
$15,000 and the insurance company gets the plane. He is out a $30,000 plane
and has a check for $15,000. The insurance company how sells the plane for
what they can get which might exceed what he had it insured for.