Tow Pilot Checkouts, Rough-Field Tri-Gears?

[noel.wade]

All -

Do any of the USA folks here on RAS operate in a club without a 2-seat
towplane? If so, how do you check out new towpilots? Do you find
simulated towing acceptable training?

On a related topic: Given the dearth of Robins in the USA for tri-gear
towing, does anyone have suggestions on a tri-gear towplane that can
operate out of a rough grass strip? We now land on asphalt, but our
takeoff area has some broad swales and occasional mole-holes. It has
spawned legends of bent Cessna firewalls; so a 180 or 182 seems to be
out of the running. Any alternatives out there that are capable of
hauling up a loaded 2-seater like a G-103 or L-23?

Thanks,

--Noel

[Tim Taylor]

On Nov 12, 5:28*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> All -
>
> Do any of the USA folks here on RAS operate in a club without a 2-seat
> towplane? *If so, how do you check out new towpilots? *Do you find
> simulated towing acceptable training?
>
> On a related topic: Given the dearth of Robins in the USA for tri-gear
> towing, does anyone have suggestions on a tri-gear towplane that can
> operate out of a rough grass strip? *We now land on asphalt, but our
> takeoff area has some broad swales and occasional mole-holes. *It has
> spawned legends of bent Cessna firewalls; so a 180 or 182 seems to be
> out of the running. *Any alternatives out there that are capable of
> hauling up a loaded 2-seater like a G-103 or L-23?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Noel

Socata Rallye, one for sale here in Logan I think.

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 01:00 13 November 2012, Tim Taylor wrote:
>On Nov 12, 5:28=A0pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
>> All -
>>
>> Do any of the USA folks here on RAS operate in a club without a 2-seat
>> towplane? =A0If so, how do you check out new towpilots? =A0Do you find
>> simulated towing acceptable training?
>>
>> On a related topic: Given the dearth of Robins in the USA for tri-gear
>> towing, does anyone have suggestions on a tri-gear towplane that can
>> operate out of a rough grass strip? =A0We now land on asphalt, but our
>> takeoff area has some broad swales and occasional mole-holes. =A0It has
>> spawned legends of bent Cessna firewalls; so a 180 or 182 seems to be
>> out of the running. =A0Any alternatives out there that are capable of
>> hauling up a loaded 2-seater like a G-103 or L-23?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --Noel
>
>Socata Rallye, one for sale here in Logan I think.

Varga Kachina, Maule?

[T[_2_]]

On Nov 12, 4:28*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> All -
>
> Do any of the USA folks here on RAS operate in a club without a 2-seat
> towplane? *If so, how do you check out new towpilots? *Do you find
> simulated towing acceptable training?
>
> On a related topic: Given the dearth of Robins in the USA for tri-gear
> towing, does anyone have suggestions on a tri-gear towplane that can
> operate out of a rough grass strip? *We now land on asphalt, but our
> takeoff area has some broad swales and occasional mole-holes. *It has
> spawned legends of bent Cessna firewalls; so a 180 or 182 seems to be
> out of the running. *Any alternatives out there that are capable of
> hauling up a loaded 2-seater like a G-103 or L-23?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Noel

Any airplane is going to have problems with runways with mole holes,
you can drop a main tire into the hole as easily as nose wheels or
tail wheels.

A C180 is a taildragger, a C182 a nose dragger. So why is the 180 out
of the running?

We have a single seat Pawnee for towing, best tow plane made, Piper
Pawnees. Simulated tow training works, we've used Super Cub,
Decathlon, and C170 for training. First three tow flights for the new
tow pilot, a CFIG is in the glider, first tow is normal, 2nd tow,
worst student you can be, moving all around and box wake and slack
line training. 3rd flight, pattern tow. Followed by critique and
question/answer session.

A good tow plane? Depending on where you are and density altitude
issues. C150 with 150HP or better. C182 if light weight, high DA
you'll not want full fuel. Super cub with 180HP. Scout.

T

[[email protected]]

One club I was in used a 180hp 150 with a 172 nose wheel. We operated off of pavement and the grass cross strip, as well as the grass along the edge of the paved runway. This is some ancient history, I vaguely remember that the nose wheel has some issues with shimmy, and there were some issues regarding the STC for a climb prop for that engine/airframe combo.

P9

[noel.wade]

On Nov 13, 6:19*pm, T > wrote:
>
> Any club trying to maintain more than one tow plane with only 600 tows
> per year is going to have financial issues. A Super Cub is a high
> capital investment. The concern of grounding for an AD for a single
> type (2 Pawnees) is understandable, but the capital investment of the
> second tow plane could be higher than the revenue lost while
> completing the AD.
>
> T

Thanks for the info on your simulated tow regimen! Can I ask which
club this is?

Our club consistently does ~1300 tows per year. We never seem to use
our towplanes evenly; often the "nicest" Pawnee gets 700-800 tows per
year while the remaining 550-650 are split between the other two
planes (effectively at a loss). My analysis of our club finances
shows that 1300 tows is sufficient to support 2 towplanes as long as
you use them equally (i.e. about 650 tows per plane); but definitely
not 3 towplanes. Just as you've noted, doing less than about 600 tows
per towplane just doesn't make economic sense (the fixed costs are way
too high on a per-tow basis, you'd end up having to charge something
like $65+ for a 3000' tow just to keep up with yearly costs - and at
that rate you're not saving any money for long-term items like
engines, paint, fabric, etc).

--Noel