how many people flying at any one time?

[tracksterman]

I'm having trouble tracking down a statistic I'm after, thought you
knowledgable folks might be able to help. As the subject title says:
how many people are aloft in aeroplanes at any one time...?

Thanks for your time.

[Newps]

tracksterman wrote:

> I'm having trouble tracking down a statistic I'm after, thought you
> knowledgable folks might be able to help. As the subject title says:
> how many people are aloft in aeroplanes at any one time...?

It varies.

[Bob Gardner]

Think, tracksterman, think! Where would these numbers come from? Do you
think that general aviation pilots report their passenger loads to Big
Brother? There is a remote possibility that someone could add up the
passenger manifests of the airliners in flight at a particular time and
report the total to Big Brother, but at what cost? And for what benefit?

Bob Gardner

"tracksterman" > wrote in message
m...
> I'm having trouble tracking down a statistic I'm after, thought you
> knowledgable folks might be able to help. As the subject title says:
> how many people are aloft in aeroplanes at any one time...?
>
> Thanks for your time.

[TaxSrv]

"tracksterman" wrote:

> I'm having trouble tracking down a statistic I'm after, thought you
> knowledgable folks might be able to help. As the subject title says:
> how many people are aloft in aeroplanes at any one time...?
>

If you want general aviation numbers, it should be easy to compute.
GAMA (www.generaviation.org) publishes stats on #'s and annual hours
of active aircraft. NTSB accident data (www.ntsb.gov) can be used to
derive the average # of occupants per aircraft, and by time of day if
needed.

Fred F.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
news:HkRSb.66166$U%5.377748@attbi_s03...
> Think, tracksterman, think! Where would these numbers come from? Do you
> think that general aviation pilots report their passenger loads to Big
> Brother? There is a remote possibility that someone could add up the
> passenger manifests of the airliners in flight at a particular time and
> report the total to Big Brother, but at what cost? And for what benefit?
>
> Bob Gardner

I think he means "How many aircraft are aloft at any one time"??
>
> "tracksterman" > wrote in message
> m...
> > I'm having trouble tracking down a statistic I'm after, thought you
> > knowledgable folks might be able to help. As the subject title says:
> > how many people are aloft in aeroplanes at any one time...?
> >
> > Thanks for your time.
>
>

[Bob Gardner]

Do you report your annual hours flown to the government (or GAMA, for that
matter)?

Bob Gardner

"TaxSrv" > wrote in message
...
> "tracksterman" wrote:
>
> > I'm having trouble tracking down a statistic I'm after, thought you
> > knowledgable folks might be able to help. As the subject title says:
> > how many people are aloft in aeroplanes at any one time...?
> >
>
> If you want general aviation numbers, it should be easy to compute.
> GAMA (www.generaviation.org) publishes stats on #'s and annual hours
> of active aircraft. NTSB accident data (www.ntsb.gov) can be used to
> derive the average # of occupants per aircraft, and by time of day if
> needed.
>
> Fred F.
>

[Pete Jones]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:44:09 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller" >
blathered:

>> Think, tracksterman, think! Where would these numbers come from? Do you
>> think that general aviation pilots report their passenger loads to Big
>> Brother? There is a remote possibility that someone could add up the
>> passenger manifests of the airliners in flight at a particular time and
>> report the total to Big Brother, but at what cost? And for what benefit?
>>
>> Bob Gardner
>
>I think he means "How many aircraft are aloft at any one time"??

No, I mean 'how many people' - and it's a global figure I want rather
than a US one. Of course this would only ever be a (very!) approximate
number, but that's all I need - and it has been done before, because I
remember reading the figure a couple of years ago. Just having a
spectacular lack of success finding it online...

Pete
----
http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/

[L Smith]

Doesn't matter. For one thing, the number of people in the air in GA
aircraft at any one time
are going to be insignificant compared to the number of people in
commercial aircraft, and
the latter number is going to be fairly easy to estimate. (This data is
probably available
somewhere, but you can always take the know number of flights each day,
assume an
average capacity and load factor, and come up with a reasonable
estimate.) If you want
GA numbers, you can get an upper bound by checking the registry to see
how many
aircraft are listed and what types, determine how many seats this
translates into, and
assume everyone is full and in the air at the same time. You know the
actual number has
to be much less that this, so now you start making assumptions and
approximations.

Rich Lemert

Bob Gardner wrote:

>Do you report your annual hours flown to the government (or GAMA, for that
>matter)?
>
>Bob Gardner
>
>"TaxSrv" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>"tracksterman" wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'm having trouble tracking down a statistic I'm after, thought you
>>>knowledgable folks might be able to help. As the subject title says:
>>>how many people are aloft in aeroplanes at any one time...?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>If you want general aviation numbers, it should be easy to compute.
>>GAMA (www.generaviation.org) publishes stats on #'s and annual hours
>>of active aircraft. NTSB accident data (www.ntsb.gov) can be used to
>>derive the average # of occupants per aircraft, and by time of day if
>>needed.
>>
>>Fred F.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

[TaxSrv]

Bob Gardner wrote:

> Do you report your annual hours flown to the government (or GAMA,
for that
> matter)?

Isn't that on the medical application? It's also reported to
insurance companies; FAA and GAMA publish their analyses of activity
from the data. What's the problem?

Fred F.

[Gary Drescher]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
news:QITSb.148342$Rc4.1191358@attbi_s54...
> Do you report your annual hours flown to the government (or GAMA, for that
> matter)?

Bob, reliable estimates of such things don't necessarily require exhaustive
counts. Carefully designed sampling works, too.

--Gary

> Bob Gardner
>
> "TaxSrv" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "tracksterman" wrote:
> >
> > > I'm having trouble tracking down a statistic I'm after, thought you
> > > knowledgable folks might be able to help. As the subject title says:
> > > how many people are aloft in aeroplanes at any one time...?
> > >
> >
> > If you want general aviation numbers, it should be easy to compute.
> > GAMA (www.generaviation.org) publishes stats on #'s and annual hours
> > of active aircraft. NTSB accident data (www.ntsb.gov) can be used to
> > derive the average # of occupants per aircraft, and by time of day if
> > needed.
> >
> > Fred F.
> >
>
>

[Cub Driver]

There was once an article in the Atlantic Monthly (I think it was then
called the Atlantic Monthly) entitled "There are XXX trees in Russia".

The writer dealt with the habit of journalists leaving blanks in their
copy, which researchers were later supposed to fill in. The point
being: how meaningful could a statistic be, if the writer didn't know
it to begin with?

The writer's favorite case involved the trees-in-Russia question.
Let's say it was Newsweek. A Newsweek researcher naturally called the
Russian embassy, which admitted it didn't have a clue. The researcher
then estimated the acres of forest in Russia, estimated how many trees
per acre, and multiplied the two figures. Newsweek published the
number.

The next week, the Russian embassy called up, pleased as punch, and
announced that it had the answer to the researcher's question: there
were exactly XXX trees in Russia.

(The source, of course, was the Newsweek article, a perfect example of
the referential nature of the "facts" we get in the news.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Jay Honeck]

> Bob, reliable estimates of such things don't necessarily require
exhaustive
> counts. Carefully designed sampling works, too.

It would be interesting to figure out how many people have flown, in total.
I just saw a figure that said the Boeing 747 has safely flown an amazing
number of people (half a billion?) over the years.

An easier one to determine would be how many certificated pilots there have
been since 1903. We always bandy about stats like "only .05% of the world
can fly" -- but does anyone really know that figure?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jeb]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message news:<QITSb.148342$Rc4.1191358@attbi_s54>...
> Do you report your annual hours flown to the government (or GAMA, for that
> matter)?
>
> Bob Gardner
>
> "TaxSrv" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "tracksterman" wrote:
> >
> > > I'm having trouble tracking down a statistic I'm after, thought you
> > > knowledgable folks might be able to help. As the subject title says:
> > > how many people are aloft in aeroplanes at any one time...?
> > >
> >
> > If you want general aviation numbers, it should be easy to compute.
> > GAMA (www.generaviation.org) publishes stats on #'s and annual hours
> > of active aircraft. NTSB accident data (www.ntsb.gov) can be used to
> > derive the average # of occupants per aircraft, and by time of day if
> > needed.
> >
> > Fred F.
> >

Thats not the question he is asking - he wants to know how many people
are in the air at any one time and without qualifications as to GA or
otherwise.

I would probably guess that there is a couple of million in the air at
any one time and ten times that in terminals seeing them off and
arrive

[G.R. Patterson III]

Bob Gardner wrote:
>
> Do you report your annual hours flown to the government (or GAMA, for that
> matter)?

Every two years I report the number of hours I've flown in the last two years to
a representative of the FAA.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

[C J Campbell]

No one could possibly know with any degree of accuracy. If you read such a
statistic before it was simply a wild guess.

[C J Campbell]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:iLWSb.193952$I06.2142132@attbi_s01...
| > Bob, reliable estimates of such things don't necessarily require
| exhaustive
| > counts. Carefully designed sampling works, too.
|
| It would be interesting to figure out how many people have flown, in
total.
| I just saw a figure that said the Boeing 747 has safely flown an amazing
| number of people (half a billion?) over the years.
|
| An easier one to determine would be how many certificated pilots there
have
| been since 1903. We always bandy about stats like "only .05% of the world
| can fly" -- but does anyone really know that figure?

Just about 67% of all statistics are made up out of thin air.

[BTIZ]

soo... if all those people are in the air.. is the earth suddenly that much
lighter??

BT

"Pete Jones" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:44:09 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller" >
> blathered:
>
> >> Think, tracksterman, think! Where would these numbers come from? Do you
> >> think that general aviation pilots report their passenger loads to Big
> >> Brother? There is a remote possibility that someone could add up the
> >> passenger manifests of the airliners in flight at a particular time and
> >> report the total to Big Brother, but at what cost? And for what
benefit?
> >>
> >> Bob Gardner
> >
> >I think he means "How many aircraft are aloft at any one time"??
>
> No, I mean 'how many people' - and it's a global figure I want rather
> than a US one. Of course this would only ever be a (very!) approximate
> number, but that's all I need - and it has been done before, because I
> remember reading the figure a couple of years ago. Just having a
> spectacular lack of success finding it online...
>
> Pete
> ----
> http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/

[Peter Duniho]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:FJZSb.2763$IF1.451@fed1read01...
> soo... if all those people are in the air.. is the earth suddenly that
much
> lighter??

No.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:iLWSb.193952$I06.2142132@attbi_s01...
> | > Bob, reliable estimates of such things don't necessarily require
> | exhaustive
> | > counts. Carefully designed sampling works, too.
> |
> | It would be interesting to figure out how many people have flown, in
> total.
> | I just saw a figure that said the Boeing 747 has safely flown an amazing
> | number of people (half a billion?) over the years.
> |
> | An easier one to determine would be how many certificated pilots there
> have
> | been since 1903. We always bandy about stats like "only .05% of the
world
> | can fly" -- but does anyone really know that figure?
>
> Just about 67% of all statistics are made up out of thin air.
>
No, 67.8%,

[Earl Grieda]

"Jeb" > wrote in message
om...
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
news:<QITSb.148342$Rc4.1191358@attbi_s54>...
> > Do you report your annual hours flown to the government (or GAMA, for
that
> > matter)?
> >
> > Bob Gardner
> >
> > "TaxSrv" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "tracksterman" wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm having trouble tracking down a statistic I'm after, thought you
> > > > knowledgable folks might be able to help. As the subject title says:
> > > > how many people are aloft in aeroplanes at any one time...?
> > > >
> > >
> > > If you want general aviation numbers, it should be easy to compute.
> > > GAMA (www.generaviation.org) publishes stats on #'s and annual hours
> > > of active aircraft. NTSB accident data (www.ntsb.gov) can be used to
> > > derive the average # of occupants per aircraft, and by time of day if
> > > needed.
> > >
> > > Fred F.
> > >
>
> Thats not the question he is asking - he wants to know how many people
> are in the air at any one time and without qualifications as to GA or
> otherwise.
>
> I would probably guess that there is a couple of million in the air at
> any one time and ten times that in terminals seeing them off and
> arrive

So, your guesstimate is that for every one person flying there is a
cummaltive 10 people in a terminal watching them depart or arrive. That, to
me, seems like an inflated estimate.

Earl G

[G.R. Patterson III]

BTIZ wrote:
>
> soo... if all those people are in the air.. is the earth suddenly that much
> lighter??

In an airplane, air is pushed down to support the plane and it's contents, so
the pressure on the Earth's surface doesn't change. I'd say that makes it "the
same weight". I don't know if one can say the same about people in lighter than
air craft.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

[Peter Duniho]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
> In an airplane, air is pushed down to support the plane and it's contents,
so
> the pressure on the Earth's surface doesn't change. I'd say that makes it
"the
> same weight". I don't know if one can say the same about people in lighter
than
> air craft.

Of course one can. In a lighter-than-air craft, the aircraft is still being
supported by the air underneath, which transfers that load to the Earth.

There are ways to nitpick the question, considering things like angular
momentum and inertia -- after all, it's true that since the air doesn't
provide a rigid connection, there are theoretical ways to demonstrate that
the Earth's total mass *does* change -- but then in those cases, anything
not firmly anchored to the planet could be considered not part of the total
mass of the planet, and thus the fact that the hypothetical people are in
the air is irrelevant. The Earth would have been "that much lighter" the
instant they were not firmly anchored to the planet (say, on the walk across
the ramp to the airplane).

Pete

[Peter Duniho]

"Earl Grieda" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> So, your guesstimate is that for every one person flying there is a
> cummaltive 10 people in a terminal watching them depart or arrive. That,
to
> me, seems like an inflated estimate.

It may be off, but I don't think it's by much. Here at SeaTac they have a
billboard with "airport statistics", and I was surprised at the large factor
between flying passengers and non-passengers in the airport. Non-passengers
beat out the passengers by a huge margin, and it was mostly friends and
family, rather than airport workers, that made up the difference.

I don't know if it was 10X, but it was some large (greater than 2) factor.

Not that whatever the factor is, it has anything to do with the original
question.

Pete